A 3rd German power

What about the original idea - that Bavaria and Hannover are able to offer an alternative Federal route after 1815.

Or how about if we can get to 1815 with Austria and Prussia weaker.
Hungary is independent, Russia has Galicia, Prussia doesnt get Westphalia, takes some reworking of Napoleonic times.
 
Bavaria was indeed the 3rd power during the Confederation, but we need a 3rd power on par with the Prussians and the Austrians AE. ;)

Well, I'm not sure how to get this exact combination of Prussian losses and Bavarian gains at Vienna, but it looks like the best that can be done is to have Bavaria keep Julich-Berg and annexing Trier and possibly Cologne at Vienna to link that to the Palatinate while keeping the OTL gains in Ansbach and Bayruth. With Prussia and Hannover getting their OTL gains in Northern Westphalia.
 
You all are forgetting about.... Saxony!!!
Yeah during Napoleonic wars Saxony sides with Napoleon against Prussia and then conquers Prussian-German territory with French aid. Then when Napoleon fails in his invasion of Russia and is driven back from Poland Saxony betrays its ally France and allies with England and Austria. So in 1815 it is Saxony which takes the place of Prussia. But Prussia still strong holds much of Northern Germany around Pommeren and Brandenburg. So their three major powers Austria, Saxony, and Prussia.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Bavaria was indeed the 3rd power during the Confederation, but we need a 3rd power on par with the Prussians and the Austrians AE. ;)
We need to go quite far back in time to make Bavaria strong. The key would have to bet to keep the Wittelsbach line united, thus unifying Bavaria, the Palatinate, Hainaut and Holland under one single ruler. However the butterfly storm could be unpredictable.
 

Glen

Moderator
I'm just throwing this out.

Can anyone put together a scenario, that besides Austria Prussia, by say 1860, leads to there being a 3rd German power. Based in Western Germany, incorporating Hannover maybe saxony, maybe parts of south germany, maybe what became westphalia.

Why, you have described the condition in Europe after the Liberal War in the Dominion of Southern America timeline! Check out the finished timeline (link in sig) - it should be in either Part II or Part III, can't recall at the moment.
 
Well, in the map game we set up, Austria and Prussia took a more aggressive stance on taking over Germany, so the remaining states took to Saxony and formed the German Confederation...which is backed by the Netherlands and France.
 
Pre 1485 Saxony abandoning Salic tradition and establishes primogeniture. This gives the Saxon ruler both Electoral and ducal Saxony as well as the Thuringen states. Inheritance through marriage can increase holdings for any German state. Hesse is another state which could benefit be establishing primogeniture.
 
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