A "1984" ATL

Inspired by the "Images of 1984" thread...

Unfortunately, it doesn't appear there's any way to create a "1984" ATL, which isn't ASB to at least some degree.

The three super-state world of 1984, as described in Goldstein's "The Theory and Practice and Oligarchical Collectivism", apparently requires a Communist takeover to have occurred in the USA, which is extremely ASB (it's also farfetched that such a takeover could have occurred in the UK, but not as much). It's not clear which came first: The absorbtion of the British Empire by the USA, the atomic war, or the USA going red, but it's just not plausible in any sequence.

An alternative scenario, explored in the aforementioned thread, is that none of the super-states actually exist: The government of "Oceania" actually controls only the UK, and brainwashes its citizens into believing that they are part of a world-spanning super-state, at war with other super-states.

However, the “Oceania is just the UK” scenario doesn't really work either: Its not practical that the population of Oceania/UK could be kept so completely ignorant of the true state of the outside world.

So here's a third scenario I came up with, and brief timeline:

The totalitarian super-states are real, but there are actually four of them, not three.

Eurasia and Eastasia exist pretty much exactly as described.

Oceania exists, but in reality it doesn't include the Americas. It is the least populous and weakest of the three Stalinist super-states. The Ingsoc regime governing Oceania originated with a socialist revolution in the UK, before the atomic war.

The Americas are ruled by a fascistic military dictatorship established after the atomic war. Despite being fanatically anti-Communist in its ideology and rhetoric, the American super-state has formed a strategic alliance with Oceania, without which Oceania would probably have been conquered by Eurasia decades ago. The existence of this alliance is concealed from American citizens.

Oceania tells its citizens that it controls the Americas, in order to conceal the fact that it is dependent on another regime for its survival. The official history in Oceania is that shortly after the atomic war, a socialist revolution in the USA overthrew the USA's military government, after which the USA immediately arranged to join Oceania.

In an effort to eliminate nationalism, all former nation states within Oceania are given new names, which are usually a number prefaced with a geographic description. This includes the UK itself, which is renamed Airstrip One (Airstrip Two is Iceland). However, altho officially Oceania has no capital, London remains the de facto capital.

The supposed Goldstein book read by Winston is a fraud, either entirely created by the Party, or an edited version of the authentic book.


Timeline:

1945: Winston Smith born.

1952: Revolution establishes Socialist dictatorship in the UK. UK withdraws from NATO, declares itself neutral in USA/USSR conflict.

1957: USA-USSR atomic war, hundreds of nuclear bombs devastate all the NATO and Warsaw Pact nations, as well as Japan, Australia, and other nations hosting US bases. Although both the USA and USSR evacuated their major cities during the crisis that proceeded the war, tens of millions still die worldwide from blasts and fallout. A military government takes over the USA.

The UK experiences relatively little damage during the war. London is the only major European capital which isn't nuked, altho for some reason one of the two sides does nuke Colchester.

1957: The UK sends troops on "humanitarian missions" to occupy Australia and New Zealand.

1957-1959: Conventional fighting continues between NATO and Warsaw Pact armies in Western Europe, with the latter eventually winning.

1959: Eurasia and Oceania founded.

1960: Oceania forms alliance with the USA.

1960-1065: USA annexes Canada, Latin American nations are conquered as well and become "Protectorates".

1965-1970: PRC conquers Japan, Eastasia founded.

Thoughts? More or less ASB than the other two 1984 scenarios?
 
Interesting, but still seeming ASB, but that can't be helped. About East Asia, you could have it as a second revival of the East Asian Co-Prosperity sphere, lead by a socialist Japan, except it worked.
 
actually a 3 or 4 superstate dystopia is not entirely ASB, if you make a POD during WWII to have the Germans ignore the Russians and only fight the British and French. France is overrun as per our TL, so is Poland, the Germans fight a successful naval battle against the British and take their foreign posessions including the oil rich ones in the middle east. Spain is enveloped by the Nazi's either by conquest or by some sort of annexation, which leaves most of continental Europe and many other parts of the world under a fascist dictatorship. The USSR forms a massive communist empire on the border with the Nazi controlled sphere of influence. The US finds itself threatened by two hostile superpowers in stead of one and so becomes more and more fascistic on its own in order to protect against subversion, maybe J Edgar Hoover(or Mcarthy) takes over the government or something. The UK has no choice but to become a subordinate to the US to avoid falling to either the Nazi's or Russians. China is the last to form, with two more draconian sides in the cold war the civil war is way nastier with the Nationalist side winning a very bloody and very protacted conflict in the 60's. The Nationalists also form a police state afterward and envelope Japan by the mid 70's. The remaining nations in africa and south america are gobbled up one by one as each side tries to consolidate its own power base.
 
Inspired by the "Images of 1984" thread...

Unfortunately, it doesn't appear there's any way to create a "1984" ATL, which isn't ASB to at least some degree.
Not really. Orwell made the reasonable assumption that a nuclear war would happen and the remaining governments would go totalitarian (or become further totalitarian) to retain control. The US actually planned to do that.
 
Not really. Orwell made the reasonable assumption that a nuclear war would happen and the remaining governments would go totalitarian (or become further totalitarian) to retain control. The US actually planned to do that.

Yes, but there are different forms of totalitarianism. Based on Orwell's description, Oceania was a Communist regime (it officially called itself "socialist", but met all the definitions of Communism), and while it's not unrealistic that the US could have gone fascist in the aftermath of a nuclear war with the USSR, it's not credible that it would go Communist. There was virtually zero popular support for Communism among the general US population, and there would have been even less after a Communist nation had nuked American cities. Any post-nuclear war dictatorship in the US would have been anti-Communist, particularly if the USSR or its successor state ("Eurasia") was still around.
 
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