Hello everyone, this is @unnaturalmilk and mines first timeline about making the Lusophone prosper by changing a few events in the 1800's. This timeline will not only be going to modern day, but also using elements from @Lusitania's A Lusophone World. Hope you all enjoy and please, give us feedback. It'll help with the writing later on
A Última Flor de Lacio
- Thread starter ToasterOven456
- Start date
Chapter 1 A Loyalist Amazon
Chapter 1 A Loyalist Amazon
Pedro I of Brazil
José Bonifácio
On September 7, 1822, José Bonifácio was supposed to be the Minister of Internal Affairs, after all, he was one of the main characters of the Independence of Brazil, and was already the Minister of Affairs when Brazil was part of the Portuguese Empire. However, in a twist that has puzzled historians for two centuries, Bonifácio refused to continue in the post [1]. Confused, Pedro I appointed José Álvares de Almeida, Marquess of Santo Amaro, to the job.
Almeida was fit to the job, he however did one thing that would haunt him for the rest of his lifes. Bonifácio had already thought about having Thomas Cochrane fight in the Imperial Navy. Cochrane had already fought for the Chileans during their independence war. Almeida, however, fearful of the price that Cochrane would want to serve for and uncomfortable with his charges in the Great Stock Exchange Fraud, did not contact him [2].
Thomas Cochrane
He would come to regret this, as there was no one to take Maranhão for the Brazilians. This meant that Maranhão would remain in the Portuguese Empire. However, because of this, Grão-Pará also remained in the Portuguese Empire, in a turn of events which would change the history of Brazil and South America [3].
[1] First POD
[2] Second POD
[3] Third POD. IOTL Cochrane (By his own initiative!!!!) captured Maranhão by bluffing the Portuguese troops there, and sent Pascoe Grenfell, a subordinate of his, to do the same thing in Belém do Pará, making Grão-Pará fall under Brazilian rule. So it could be said that without Cochrane, neither Maranhão, nor Grão-Pará would have joined Brazil in 1822-1823.
Even though Cochrane was not fighting for Brazil, the Empire managed to (barely) defeat the Portuguese in Bahia and the Northeast (With the obvious exception of Maranhão, which still had Portuguese troops). John VI of Portugal, already 57 years old, sued for a treaty between Brazil and Portugal in September 1824. The treaty, signed in Rio de Janeiro, was nowhere as harsh as Pedro I feared. It did not impose any indenmities on Brazil, which was a godsend for a country that had fought a bloody and costly independence war. The reason for no indenmities was that part of the Portuguese elite was already satisfied with keeping Grão-Pará and Maranhão, and some in the elite even thought that if Brazil angered them enough, they could easily march troops from the Amazon and take over the country. British participation meant that the open ports policy was kept.
Rio de Janeiro, 1823
To the satisfaction of Brazil, the treaty was much less hurtful than some expected, and it was widely expected that with this treaty, Brazil would start in the right foot, and would progressively march to become a country of progress and prosperity.
Before that, Pedro I had a plan.
Brazilian Army uniforms in 1822
Although grateful for his father's lenient treaty, Pedro I still nurtured fears of a Portuguese attack through their colony.
Because of that, Pedro I, starting in November 1824 embarked on a modernization campaign of the military forces, asking for loans from the United Kingdom to invest in the military. The campaign was successful and the Brazilian Army, month by month, became better-equiped, better-funded, better-paid and, most importantly, better trained. By May of 1825, the Brazilian Army was already of high quality. Although obviously not as good as the armies of the UK or Portugal, it was a good army relative for the region. Not only that, the Brazilian Navy, one of the strongest in the Western Hemisphere, became even stronger, with new ships and many improvements, besides the recruitment of more personnel to work in the Brazilian Armada. To this day, Brazilian historians refer to this as the "Milagre dos Seis Meses" (Six-Month Miracle). The Armed Forces would be continuously improved after May, especially after a certain event in the end of the year.
The improvements also had an impact in Brazilian society, showing a shift from the previously "militia" mentality that was present in the structures of the Armed Forces, best represented by the fact that for most of its history, Brazil was paradoxically dependent on Portugal for its defense but had many moments by which it managed to survive and conquer with little to no Portuguese presence, such as the Expulsion of the Dutch from the Northeast and the Bandeirantes.
A bandeirante
An interesting event also happened in Brazil during this period, about 10 thousand people, all of whom were Portuguese, fled to Portugal and Grão-Pará. Known as the "Exiled Portuguese" (Portugueses Exilados), they were fervent loyalists and members of the Portuguese administrative apparatus who became dissatisfied with Brazilian independence, and found that it was easier to just leave the country to the neighbouring country to the North. It wasn't very difficult, they could easily have access to jobs there, as the Portuguese (covertly) sponsored this emigration, hoping to brain drain Brazil and bring home the ones who were still loyal to the Portuguese Crown.
P.S All credit given to @unnaturalmilk he made this chapter
Pedro I of Brazil
José Bonifácio
On September 7, 1822, José Bonifácio was supposed to be the Minister of Internal Affairs, after all, he was one of the main characters of the Independence of Brazil, and was already the Minister of Affairs when Brazil was part of the Portuguese Empire. However, in a twist that has puzzled historians for two centuries, Bonifácio refused to continue in the post [1]. Confused, Pedro I appointed José Álvares de Almeida, Marquess of Santo Amaro, to the job.
Almeida was fit to the job, he however did one thing that would haunt him for the rest of his lifes. Bonifácio had already thought about having Thomas Cochrane fight in the Imperial Navy. Cochrane had already fought for the Chileans during their independence war. Almeida, however, fearful of the price that Cochrane would want to serve for and uncomfortable with his charges in the Great Stock Exchange Fraud, did not contact him [2].
Thomas Cochrane
He would come to regret this, as there was no one to take Maranhão for the Brazilians. This meant that Maranhão would remain in the Portuguese Empire. However, because of this, Grão-Pará also remained in the Portuguese Empire, in a turn of events which would change the history of Brazil and South America [3].
[1] First POD
[2] Second POD
[3] Third POD. IOTL Cochrane (By his own initiative!!!!) captured Maranhão by bluffing the Portuguese troops there, and sent Pascoe Grenfell, a subordinate of his, to do the same thing in Belém do Pará, making Grão-Pará fall under Brazilian rule. So it could be said that without Cochrane, neither Maranhão, nor Grão-Pará would have joined Brazil in 1822-1823.
Even though Cochrane was not fighting for Brazil, the Empire managed to (barely) defeat the Portuguese in Bahia and the Northeast (With the obvious exception of Maranhão, which still had Portuguese troops). John VI of Portugal, already 57 years old, sued for a treaty between Brazil and Portugal in September 1824. The treaty, signed in Rio de Janeiro, was nowhere as harsh as Pedro I feared. It did not impose any indenmities on Brazil, which was a godsend for a country that had fought a bloody and costly independence war. The reason for no indenmities was that part of the Portuguese elite was already satisfied with keeping Grão-Pará and Maranhão, and some in the elite even thought that if Brazil angered them enough, they could easily march troops from the Amazon and take over the country. British participation meant that the open ports policy was kept.
Rio de Janeiro, 1823
To the satisfaction of Brazil, the treaty was much less hurtful than some expected, and it was widely expected that with this treaty, Brazil would start in the right foot, and would progressively march to become a country of progress and prosperity.
Before that, Pedro I had a plan.
Brazilian Army uniforms in 1822
Although grateful for his father's lenient treaty, Pedro I still nurtured fears of a Portuguese attack through their colony.
Because of that, Pedro I, starting in November 1824 embarked on a modernization campaign of the military forces, asking for loans from the United Kingdom to invest in the military. The campaign was successful and the Brazilian Army, month by month, became better-equiped, better-funded, better-paid and, most importantly, better trained. By May of 1825, the Brazilian Army was already of high quality. Although obviously not as good as the armies of the UK or Portugal, it was a good army relative for the region. Not only that, the Brazilian Navy, one of the strongest in the Western Hemisphere, became even stronger, with new ships and many improvements, besides the recruitment of more personnel to work in the Brazilian Armada. To this day, Brazilian historians refer to this as the "Milagre dos Seis Meses" (Six-Month Miracle). The Armed Forces would be continuously improved after May, especially after a certain event in the end of the year.
The improvements also had an impact in Brazilian society, showing a shift from the previously "militia" mentality that was present in the structures of the Armed Forces, best represented by the fact that for most of its history, Brazil was paradoxically dependent on Portugal for its defense but had many moments by which it managed to survive and conquer with little to no Portuguese presence, such as the Expulsion of the Dutch from the Northeast and the Bandeirantes.
A bandeirante
An interesting event also happened in Brazil during this period, about 10 thousand people, all of whom were Portuguese, fled to Portugal and Grão-Pará. Known as the "Exiled Portuguese" (Portugueses Exilados), they were fervent loyalists and members of the Portuguese administrative apparatus who became dissatisfied with Brazilian independence, and found that it was easier to just leave the country to the neighbouring country to the North. It wasn't very difficult, they could easily have access to jobs there, as the Portuguese (covertly) sponsored this emigration, hoping to brain drain Brazil and bring home the ones who were still loyal to the Portuguese Crown.
P.S All credit given to @unnaturalmilk he made this chapter
Ch 2 Constitutional Trouble
Chapter 2:
Constitutional Trouble
Niterói in 1830
Whilst all of this was ongoing, a Constitutional Assembly was due to convene in June 1825. While there were plans to start one as soon as 1823, these were cut short by Pedro I, who was too paranoid about Portuguese presence in the North to worry about matters that seemed less important than the independence war. The Constitutional Assembly Assembly start to its proceedings on June 1, 1825, in the small city of Niterói, a neighboring town to Rio de Janeiro. They represented all the factions that had participated in the Independence. There were the "Moderates" (Moderados), "Conservatives" (Conservadores) and the "Independists" (Independistas). The Moderates who represented the urban upper classes of Rio, wanted a maintenance of slavery, although questioned how much longer the trade could last and defended some state intervention to develop the infrastructure of the Empire (Inspired by the fact that much Rio's infrastructure was built during the presence of the Portuguese court in Brazil, something that this elite saw with their own eyes).
The Conservatives, represented by the slave owning elite, were supportive of the slave trade; supported an economically liberal platform and wanted the Emperor to be nothing more than a figurehead, as their objective was the establishment of a parliamentary system with extremely limited suffrage. Essentially meaning the landowners would keep the power and rule the country as they saw fit.
The Independistas did not have any other ideology besides pressing for the immediate annexation of Grão-Pará into Brazil. Their beliefs were that Brazilian Independence was an unfinished process, which would only end if Brazil, with a modernized army (Which they highly supported) conquered its "Amazonian clay" and effectively expelled all Portuguese troops from South America. This third group was more fluid. A Moderate could not be a Conservative and vice-versa. However, a Conservative could be an Independist and an Independist could be a Moderate.
On June 4, 1825, on what was supposed to be the fourth day of the Assembly, a big group of people convened around the palace where the Assembly was happening, with crowds shouting and clamoring. The people reunited at the meeting, scared, opened the door to try to calm down the protesters. What they saw however surprised them. Leading the crowd was José Bonifácio.
José Bonifácio
Bonifácio didn't actually stop thinking about politics when he left the post of Minister of Affairs on 1822. In fact, between 1822 and 1825 he, during some trips around the region of Rio de Janeiro, was gathering his own supporters by throwing small and private parties where men would gather to talk about the political issues of the day and propose their own solutions. Those men were, just like Bonifácio, "Enlightened Aristocrats" and invitations were never sent to anyone from the middle class or lower. By doing that he managed to gain a loyal following which would result into the future Liberal Party.
It has been said that Bonifácio's appearance at the Assembly was what actually started it, as even Pedro I, who was still in contact with him, was surprised by his sudden return to politics. Because of that, the Assembly was, under Pedro I's orders, forced to have Bonifácio and his political group, named the "Liberals" (Liberais) be present at the Constitutional Convention (The Conservatives and Moderates had both 33 percent of the seats, and the Liberals had 34 percent, with a fraction of all being Independists. To this day, it is still debated how illegal Pedro I's actions of artificially increasing the size of the Liberals were, although this is a touchy and polarising issue that divides along political lines).
What set the Liberals apart however was their fracturing into three very distinct camps: The "Pedrists" (Pedristas), "Anti-Pedrists" (Anti-Pedristas) and "Federalists" (Federalistas).
The Pedrists, who were arguably more Monarchist than all of the other groups in the Assembly, defended the centralization of power under Pedro I, under the belief that he could (and would) want to adopt Liberal reforms to improve the country (Such as public investment in infrastructure, land reform, fight against the slave trade etc.)
They were inspired by the Six-Month Miracle, which "proved" that their ideas about Pedro I's ability to improve the nation were correct and valid. They believed that only a strong Emperor figure would be able to stand up to the landowning elites and be capable of making the reforms without the country balkanizing and splitting up.
The Anti-Pedrists, although not republicans, defended a government centralized under a prime-minister, with a suffrage limited to the "Enlightened Aristocrats", such as Bonifácio himself, resulting in the so desired Liberal reforms.
The most odd of those groups, however, were Federalists. They defended a decentralized government whilst championing Liberal reforms, that - most mainstream historians agree - could only be made by a centralized government. Even José Bonifácio didn't seem sympathetic to this group, and privately suspected that they had Republican or even separatist tendencies, exacerbated by the fact that many times, the Federalists voted together with the Conservatives - who themselves favored decentralization and no Liberal reforms.
What unired those groups however was an almost fanatical following of José Bonifácio, who they saw as either the future Imperial Adviser or Prime-Minister. Because of that, it seemed likely that whichever group Bonifácio associated with, would be the one that would become the mainstay of the Liberals. He was also just as divided.
Modern mainstream historiography has established that, on June 6, 1825, the day of the Speech on the Fundamental Rights of the Empire of Brazil (Discurso dos Direitos Fundamentais do Império Brasileiro), Bonifácio himself did not know what faction to choose. He was (secretly) against the Federalists, so it was out of question for him to choose them. But he was split on whether to side with the Pedrists or the Anti-Pedrists.
On one hand, he admired a system in which the aristocrats would have control but also implement the necessary reforrms. On the other, he was a friend of Pedro I, and even had an important role in him deciding to stay in Brazil.
On what could be considered a coin toss, he chose to side with the Pedrists. During the meeting in the Assembly, he gave a speech which historians would later refer to as the Speech on the Fundamental Rights of the Empire of Brazil. In it, he praised Pedro I and explained that he supported a system by which the Emperor held more power, arguing that only that way would the population have their rights guaranteed, by a Liberal emperor who would compete against the slave owning landowners. The speech, while considered one of the best of the 19th century Lusophone world, was actually seen in a very bad light by the other congressmen due to its "populist" and - according to some Conservative members - divisive rhetoric.
Nonetheless, the Anti-Pedrists and Federalists quickly folded into Bonifácio's lead and adopted Pedrism as their ideology, guaranteeing that at least a third of the Constitutional Assembly was on Bonifácio's side.
All Credit to @unnaturalmilk
Constitutional Trouble
Niterói in 1830
Whilst all of this was ongoing, a Constitutional Assembly was due to convene in June 1825. While there were plans to start one as soon as 1823, these were cut short by Pedro I, who was too paranoid about Portuguese presence in the North to worry about matters that seemed less important than the independence war. The Constitutional Assembly Assembly start to its proceedings on June 1, 1825, in the small city of Niterói, a neighboring town to Rio de Janeiro. They represented all the factions that had participated in the Independence. There were the "Moderates" (Moderados), "Conservatives" (Conservadores) and the "Independists" (Independistas). The Moderates who represented the urban upper classes of Rio, wanted a maintenance of slavery, although questioned how much longer the trade could last and defended some state intervention to develop the infrastructure of the Empire (Inspired by the fact that much Rio's infrastructure was built during the presence of the Portuguese court in Brazil, something that this elite saw with their own eyes).
The Conservatives, represented by the slave owning elite, were supportive of the slave trade; supported an economically liberal platform and wanted the Emperor to be nothing more than a figurehead, as their objective was the establishment of a parliamentary system with extremely limited suffrage. Essentially meaning the landowners would keep the power and rule the country as they saw fit.
The Independistas did not have any other ideology besides pressing for the immediate annexation of Grão-Pará into Brazil. Their beliefs were that Brazilian Independence was an unfinished process, which would only end if Brazil, with a modernized army (Which they highly supported) conquered its "Amazonian clay" and effectively expelled all Portuguese troops from South America. This third group was more fluid. A Moderate could not be a Conservative and vice-versa. However, a Conservative could be an Independist and an Independist could be a Moderate.
On June 4, 1825, on what was supposed to be the fourth day of the Assembly, a big group of people convened around the palace where the Assembly was happening, with crowds shouting and clamoring. The people reunited at the meeting, scared, opened the door to try to calm down the protesters. What they saw however surprised them. Leading the crowd was José Bonifácio.
José Bonifácio
Bonifácio didn't actually stop thinking about politics when he left the post of Minister of Affairs on 1822. In fact, between 1822 and 1825 he, during some trips around the region of Rio de Janeiro, was gathering his own supporters by throwing small and private parties where men would gather to talk about the political issues of the day and propose their own solutions. Those men were, just like Bonifácio, "Enlightened Aristocrats" and invitations were never sent to anyone from the middle class or lower. By doing that he managed to gain a loyal following which would result into the future Liberal Party.
It has been said that Bonifácio's appearance at the Assembly was what actually started it, as even Pedro I, who was still in contact with him, was surprised by his sudden return to politics. Because of that, the Assembly was, under Pedro I's orders, forced to have Bonifácio and his political group, named the "Liberals" (Liberais) be present at the Constitutional Convention (The Conservatives and Moderates had both 33 percent of the seats, and the Liberals had 34 percent, with a fraction of all being Independists. To this day, it is still debated how illegal Pedro I's actions of artificially increasing the size of the Liberals were, although this is a touchy and polarising issue that divides along political lines).
What set the Liberals apart however was their fracturing into three very distinct camps: The "Pedrists" (Pedristas), "Anti-Pedrists" (Anti-Pedristas) and "Federalists" (Federalistas).
The Pedrists, who were arguably more Monarchist than all of the other groups in the Assembly, defended the centralization of power under Pedro I, under the belief that he could (and would) want to adopt Liberal reforms to improve the country (Such as public investment in infrastructure, land reform, fight against the slave trade etc.)
They were inspired by the Six-Month Miracle, which "proved" that their ideas about Pedro I's ability to improve the nation were correct and valid. They believed that only a strong Emperor figure would be able to stand up to the landowning elites and be capable of making the reforms without the country balkanizing and splitting up.
The Anti-Pedrists, although not republicans, defended a government centralized under a prime-minister, with a suffrage limited to the "Enlightened Aristocrats", such as Bonifácio himself, resulting in the so desired Liberal reforms.
The most odd of those groups, however, were Federalists. They defended a decentralized government whilst championing Liberal reforms, that - most mainstream historians agree - could only be made by a centralized government. Even José Bonifácio didn't seem sympathetic to this group, and privately suspected that they had Republican or even separatist tendencies, exacerbated by the fact that many times, the Federalists voted together with the Conservatives - who themselves favored decentralization and no Liberal reforms.
What unired those groups however was an almost fanatical following of José Bonifácio, who they saw as either the future Imperial Adviser or Prime-Minister. Because of that, it seemed likely that whichever group Bonifácio associated with, would be the one that would become the mainstay of the Liberals. He was also just as divided.
Modern mainstream historiography has established that, on June 6, 1825, the day of the Speech on the Fundamental Rights of the Empire of Brazil (Discurso dos Direitos Fundamentais do Império Brasileiro), Bonifácio himself did not know what faction to choose. He was (secretly) against the Federalists, so it was out of question for him to choose them. But he was split on whether to side with the Pedrists or the Anti-Pedrists.
On one hand, he admired a system in which the aristocrats would have control but also implement the necessary reforrms. On the other, he was a friend of Pedro I, and even had an important role in him deciding to stay in Brazil.
On what could be considered a coin toss, he chose to side with the Pedrists. During the meeting in the Assembly, he gave a speech which historians would later refer to as the Speech on the Fundamental Rights of the Empire of Brazil. In it, he praised Pedro I and explained that he supported a system by which the Emperor held more power, arguing that only that way would the population have their rights guaranteed, by a Liberal emperor who would compete against the slave owning landowners. The speech, while considered one of the best of the 19th century Lusophone world, was actually seen in a very bad light by the other congressmen due to its "populist" and - according to some Conservative members - divisive rhetoric.
Nonetheless, the Anti-Pedrists and Federalists quickly folded into Bonifácio's lead and adopted Pedrism as their ideology, guaranteeing that at least a third of the Constitutional Assembly was on Bonifácio's side.
All Credit to @unnaturalmilk
Iam writing a Portuguese/Brazil story and have a list of timelines, what ifs, Q&As, and planning threads on my notes folder, yours is at the top of the list as its both new and goes into amazing detail for just the time period i am working on at the moment.
I hope portugal and brazil can have good relations going foward , they have the same dynasty and alot of cultural bonds , they together could make a more lusophone world .Chapter 2:
Constitutional Trouble
Niterói in 1830
Whilst all of this was ongoing, a Constitutional Assembly was due to convene in June 1825. While there were plans to start one as soon as 1823, these were cut short by Pedro I, who was too paranoid about Portuguese presence in the North to worry about matters that seemed less important than the independence war. The Constitutional Assembly Assembly start to its proceedings on June 1, 1825, in the small city of Niterói, a neighboring town to Rio de Janeiro. They represented all the factions that had participated in the Independence. There were the "Moderates" (Moderados), "Conservatives" (Conservadores) and the "Independists" (Independistas). The Moderates who represented the urban upper classes of Rio, wanted a maintenance of slavery, although questioned how much longer the trade could last and defended some state intervention to develop the infrastructure of the Empire (Inspired by the fact that much Rio's infrastructure was built during the presence of the Portuguese court in Brazil, something that this elite saw with their own eyes).
The Conservatives, represented by the slave owning elite, were supportive of the slave trade; supported an economically liberal platform and wanted the Emperor to be nothing more than a figurehead, as their objective was the establishment of a parliamentary system with extremely limited suffrage. Essentially meaning the landowners would keep the power and rule the country as they saw fit.
The Independistas did not have any other ideology besides pressing for the immediate annexation of Grão-Pará into Brazil. Their beliefs were that Brazilian Independence was an unfinished process, which would only end if Brazil, with a modernized army (Which they highly supported) conquered its "Amazonian clay" and effectively expelled all Portuguese troops from South America. This third group was more fluid. A Moderate could not be a Conservative and vice-versa. However, a Conservative could be an Independist and an Independist could be a Moderate.
On June 4, 1825, on what was supposed to be the fourth day of the Assembly, a big group of people convened around the palace where the Assembly was happening, with crowds shouting and clamoring. The people reunited at the meeting, scared, opened the door to try to calm down the protesters. What they saw however surprised them. Leading the crowd was José Bonifácio.
José Bonifácio
Bonifácio didn't actually stop thinking about politics when he left the post of Minister of Affairs on 1822. In fact, between 1822 and 1825 he, during some trips around the region of Rio de Janeiro, was gathering his own supporters by throwing small and private parties where men would gather to talk about the political issues of the day and propose their own solutions. Those men were, just like Bonifácio, "Enlightened Aristocrats" and invitations were never sent to anyone from the middle class or lower. By doing that he managed to gain a loyal following which would result into the future Liberal Party.
It has been said that Bonifácio's appearance at the Assembly was what actually started it, as even Pedro I, who was still in contact with him, was surprised by his sudden return to politics. Because of that, the Assembly was, under Pedro I's orders, forced to have Bonifácio and his political group, named the "Liberals" (Liberais) be present at the Constitutional Convention (The Conservatives and Moderates had both 33 percent of the seats, and the Liberals had 34 percent, with a fraction of all being Independists. To this day, it is still debated how illegal Pedro I's actions of artificially increasing the size of the Liberals were, although this is a touchy and polarising issue that divides along political lines).
What set the Liberals apart however was their fracturing into three very distinct camps: The "Pedrists" (Pedristas), "Anti-Pedrists" (Anti-Pedristas) and "Federalists" (Federalistas).
The Pedrists, who were arguably more Monarchist than all of the other groups in the Assembly, defended the centralization of power under Pedro I, under the belief that he could (and would) want to adopt Liberal reforms to improve the country (Such as public investment in infrastructure, land reform, fight against the slave trade etc.)
They were inspired by the Six-Month Miracle, which "proved" that their ideas about Pedro I's ability to improve the nation were correct and valid. They believed that only a strong Emperor figure would be able to stand up to the landowning elites and be capable of making the reforms without the country balkanizing and splitting up.
The Anti-Pedrists, although not republicans, defended a government centralized under a prime-minister, with a suffrage limited to the "Enlightened Aristocrats", such as Bonifácio himself, resulting in the so desired Liberal reforms.
The most odd of those groups, however, were Federalists. They defended a decentralized government whilst championing Liberal reforms, that - most mainstream historians agree - could only be made by a centralized government. Even José Bonifácio didn't seem sympathetic to this group, and privately suspected that they had Republican or even separatist tendencies, exacerbated by the fact that many times, the Federalists voted together with the Conservatives - who themselves favored decentralization and no Liberal reforms.
What unired those groups however was an almost fanatical following of José Bonifácio, who they saw as either the future Imperial Adviser or Prime-Minister. Because of that, it seemed likely that whichever group Bonifácio associated with, would be the one that would become the mainstay of the Liberals. He was also just as divided.
Modern mainstream historiography has established that, on June 6, 1825, the day of the Speech on the Fundamental Rights of the Empire of Brazil (Discurso dos Direitos Fundamentais do Império Brasileiro), Bonifácio himself did not know what faction to choose. He was (secretly) against the Federalists, so it was out of question for him to choose them. But he was split on whether to side with the Pedrists or the Anti-Pedrists.
On one hand, he admired a system in which the aristocrats would have control but also implement the necessary reforrms. On the other, he was a friend of Pedro I, and even had an important role in him deciding to stay in Brazil.
On what could be considered a coin toss, he chose to side with the Pedrists. During the meeting in the Assembly, he gave a speech which historians would later refer to as the Speech on the Fundamental Rights of the Empire of Brazil. In it, he praised Pedro I and explained that he supported a system by which the Emperor held more power, arguing that only that way would the population have their rights guaranteed, by a Liberal emperor who would compete against the slave owning landowners. The speech, while considered one of the best of the 19th century Lusophone world, was actually seen in a very bad light by the other congressmen due to its "populist" and - according to some Conservative members - divisive rhetoric.
Nonetheless, the Anti-Pedrists and Federalists quickly folded into Bonifácio's lead and adopted Pedrism as their ideology, guaranteeing that at least a third of the Constitutional Assembly was on Bonifácio's side.
All Credit to @unnaturalmilk
Also portugal should be more powerful with the territories it kept .
I doubt that in the long run the relationship will be good. Brazil will focus on the southern cone at the moment due to the expansion to the north being blocked. But in the long run, Brazil will want this region back. Maybe it will take 40 or 60 years but they will want it back. Imperial brazil will have less portuguese influences than otl. Probably imitating the systems and cultures of France, Prussia,Austria and the United Kingdom more than the systems and culture of Portugal.
in relation to portugal this will give extra strength to the portuguese empire, they will probably try to have the pink mark (very likely with the money from northern brazil). Depending on how Portugal reforms they will have a greater global force than Spain. (more territories in Africa for example).
I think that as time passes the harder it is for brazil to retake the north , it will have strong portuguese emigration and as you said the cultures will diverge somewhat , so i would think that brazil sees it as a lost cause and restart good diplomatic and trade relations with portugal , brazil focosing in the south makes sense , they could keep uruguay in this tl .
it is the opposite, the more time passes, the easier it is for the reconquest of the territory. The region that Portugal controls has a lot of resources but is very hostile to human beings.
The population of the region that Portugal controls is small , nowadays has about 1/10 of the population of Brazil. (Not only that, but it took decades of semi-forced immigration by a dictatorship,in the 20th century, to be so populous.). To have an idea, the population of portugal grew every ten years approximately 200 thousand and brazil at least 1 million (normally it was more, being something around 1.2 million) in the 19th century. The scale of brazil is different from that of portugal. Portugal can try to keep up, but the nation won't have to run, it will have to fly (it's not impossible, but it's hard)
population of brazil otl
1815 (4,3M) and 1880 (12M)
population of portugal otl
1815 (3,1M)and 1880 (4,6M)
This will turn into something like alsace lorraine for france in the long run. A piece of land that has sentimental value, with its lack seen as the nation being incomplete.
you can compare with canada and uk. But the comparison is different, uk was very strong and got stronger. (having a population and economy bigger than the USA for a long time). Brazil already had a larger population and economy than Portugal.
The way to maintain the region for a long time (60-80 years) is for brazil to focus on conquering the southern cone (not only retaining uruguay, but expanding to the rest of the territory). This will give portugal time to reform. But once the southern cone is resolved, the clock starts running again.
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ok, but portugal will understand that brazil will try to reconquer that area, so they will put resources and incentivase imigration , with a hostile and loyal population a reconquest from brazil seems hard .
I guess we disagree in this , but i look foward to read this tl , i always root for portugal , probably because i am portuguse .
the hostile population is a problem, but one that the government of brazil at the time was used to solving this type of problem (usually with weapons). it will be difficult for portugal to hold the region in the long term (especially due to the fact that the Brazilian navy will surpass, by a lot, the Portuguese navy in the next +- 15 years.), maybe being able to bring some european nation to its side against brazil would balance the power difference. (the uk maybe)
yes, let's see how the two nations fare.
I don't know, we can have a War of 1812 situation, only Portugal and Brazil get along (or try) after the war because we don't want the two Lusophone nations becoming like Pakistan and India now do we? Or, Portugal and Brazil can just get along, maybe have Brazil go for the cone
we're trying to make Portugal have a great global empire by using a bunch of factors, Spain, the Netherlands, an Indian revolt, and a certain king who died too young
I think there's many precedents of what Portugal is doing working on OTL
Brazil never got the Guianas nor Cisplatina/Uruguay, so its not absurd that Portugal who's allied with Britain could keep the North
But it will indeed soil their relationship with Brazil much like what happened in the One Nation Under the Southern Cross TL and thats not helpful if Portugal wants to remain a global empire, so I suggest some kind of reapproachment happening later on like the one of the US & Canada/Britain
Brazil never got the Guianas nor Cisplatina/Uruguay, so its not absurd that Portugal who's allied with Britain could keep the North
But it will indeed soil their relationship with Brazil much like what happened in the One Nation Under the Southern Cross TL and thats not helpful if Portugal wants to remain a global empire, so I suggest some kind of reapproachment happening later on like the one of the US & Canada/Britain
we're thinking of Portugal trying to curb Brazilian expansion down south, so Uruguay, the cone, Paraguay, and some of Argentina are all points of Brazilian expansion. the cone being one of the more important ones since it lets Brazil have direct access to Antarctica and the Pacific
tomorrow, to celebrate the end of summer break in US schools
I don't know if you thought about it, but the Baixo Peru elite asked the governor of the province of Mato Grosso for protection against the republicans and in exchange they would be loyal to Pedro I.
Since Brazil was unable to occupy Grão Pará and Maranhão, it can compensate for the losses with Baixo Peru.
Since Brazil was unable to occupy Grão Pará and Maranhão, it can compensate for the losses with Baixo Peru.
Unfortunately that happened in 1822, so it's way past where the TL is at now.
But Grão-Pará would be right next to Alto Peru, so maybe they could annex it