9/11 in Pittsburgh or Cleveland, Ohio

Hyperion

Banned
OTL, on 9/11, Flight 93, which crashed in Pennsylvania before being able to reach whatever intended target it might have had, flew near both the cities of Cleveland Ohio, and Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

Suppose ITTL, for whatever reason say the bad guys know the other attacks have gone in but expect their chances of success have now dropped, decide near either city to simply pick the biggest building they can see in either city and hit that, figuring do what damage they can. That and maybe from picking up radio signals, maybe they find out that Bush isn't in or near Washington, so attacking an empty building wouldn't have as much significance.
 
Cleveland has two tall buildings: Key Tower and the Terminal Tower.

The Key Tower is the 19th largest bank in the United States and the dominant bank of the Rust Belt and New England.

The Terminal Tower was the largest skyscraper outside of New York City until the late 1960s. It is one of the major cultural icons of Cleveland and is used by most radio stations in the area to broadcast their signal. It should also be noted that the building sits upon two shopping centers and all of Cleveland's rapid transit lines.


Both of these are located near the heart of the city, with the Terminal Tower being right off of Public Square. The city as a whole is going to be devastated, especially if either tower collapses in a similar fashion as the World Trade Center. Say goodbye to most of Cleveland's transportation network and historic buildings.
 

Hyperion

Banned
Cleveland has two tall buildings: Key Tower and the Terminal Tower.

The Key Tower is the 19th largest bank in the United States and the dominant bank of the Rust Belt and New England.

The Terminal Tower was the largest skyscraper outside of New York City until the late 1960s. It is one of the major cultural icons of Cleveland and is used by most radio stations in the area to broadcast their signal. It should also be noted that the building sits upon two shopping centers and all of Cleveland's rapid transit lines.


Both of these are located near the heart of the city, with the Terminal Tower being right off of Public Square. The city as a whole is going to be devastated, especially if either tower collapses in a similar fashion as the World Trade Center. Say goodbye to most of Cleveland's transportation network and historic buildings.

The Key Tower is the building in Cleveland. The Terminal Tower might be more vital to the metro area's communications and transit network, but I'd guess terrorists would probably go for the physically largest target they could spy, in this case probably being the Key Tower, and as mentioned in the wiki article, it's visible for many miles off.
 
The Key Tower and Terminal Tower are at opposite sides of Public Square. Other than being Key Bank's headquarters and having an attached hotel, Key Tower isn't as important, other than the whole debris falling onto the Justice Center Complex thing. I don't think the aircraft would hit much lower than the base of the "pyramid" of Key, as the Erieview Tower and One Cleveland Center are in the flightpath.
 
I'm not sure that 9/11 happening in Pittsburgh and Cleveland would have the same effect as New York simply because New York is more culturally significant, has much more people, and is the media capital of the U.S. if not all of North America. Then again, hitting less metropolitan, more working-class towns may have a bigger effect for the reason that Pit and Cle are working-class towns and represent the average joe than the metropolitan socialites in the media capital (Yes I know, broad generalization but American media does that all the time). Nonetheless, it would still be a very significant event.

I suppose if they hit Pittsburgh, they would hit the U.S. Steel Tower or the Cathedral of Learning at the University of Pittsburgh as they are some of the taller buildings. (Just a thought, what would Middle Eastern Terrorists hitting a college campus do to the university culture?)

There would be a lot more people from Pennsylvania and Ohio joining the military, but they already have a large number from both those states anyways (I believe percentage wise, Ohio is #1 but don't quote me on this).

I DO believe this does have the ripple effect of making cities like New York and L.A. much more paranoid about their safety and security measures (if they can hit mid-size towns like Cle and Pitt, why not us?)

In sports, the bi-annual Steelers versus Browns games have much more of a patriotic, teary-eyed, and nationally televised feel to them.
 
The Key Tower is the building in Cleveland. The Terminal Tower might be more vital to the metro area's communications and transit network, but I'd guess terrorists would probably go for the physically largest target they could spy, in this case probably being the Key Tower, and as mentioned in the wiki article, it's visible for many miles off.

It's larger yes, but both buildings are still viable targets. Cleveland doesn't have much of a skyline and both would stand out against the scene. They would probably go for the Key Tower, but if they somehow botched the attempt the Terminal Tower looks like the next best thing.
 
I'm not sure that 9/11 happening in Pittsburgh and Cleveland would have the same effect as New York simply because New York is more culturally significant, has much more people, and is the media capital of the U.S. if not all of North America. Then again, hitting less metropolitan, more working-class towns may have a bigger effect for the reason that Pit and Cle are working-class towns and represent the average joe than the metropolitan socialites in the media capital (Yes I know, broad generalization but American media does that all the time). Nonetheless, it would still be a very significant event.

I suppose if they hit Pittsburgh, they would hit the U.S. Steel Tower or the Cathedral of Learning at the University of Pittsburgh as they are some of the taller buildings. (Just a thought, what would Middle Eastern Terrorists hitting a college campus do to the university culture?)

There would be a lot more people from Pennsylvania and Ohio joining the military, but they already have a large number from both those states anyways (I believe percentage wise, Ohio is #1 but don't quote me on this).

I DO believe this does have the ripple effect of making cities like New York and L.A. much more paranoid about their safety and security measures (if they can hit mid-size towns like Cle and Pitt, why not us?)

In sports, the bi-annual Steelers versus Browns games have much more of a patriotic, teary-eyed, and nationally televised feel to them.

In the OP the first 3 planes still hit the WTC and the Pentagon. He's just talking about the 4th plane actually hitting something instead of the hijackers being overthrown.
 
It's larger yes, but both buildings are still viable targets. Cleveland doesn't have much of a skyline and both would stand out against the scene. They would probably go for the Key Tower, but if they somehow botched the attempt the Terminal Tower looks like the next best thing.

If they can reef a 757 into a 9g turn within a 1100-foot turning radius, yeah. More likely, if they can't get the angle into Key Tower (on a path down St. Clair), they'll target the luxury apartments on Lakewood's Gold Coast....
 
In the OP the first 3 planes still hit the WTC and the Pentagon. He's just talking about the 4th plane actually hitting something instead of the hijackers being overthrown.

Oops... my mistake. :D

Still, what if it did the U.S. Steel Tower or the Cathedral of Learning in Pittsburgh?
 
Oops... my mistake. :D

Still, what if it did the U.S. Steel Tower or the Cathedral of Learning in Pittsburgh?

The number of people dead would probably be around 3200-3500 instead of 3000. It probably causes a lot more fear in cities in the center of America like Chicago, or others.
 
If they can reef a 757 into a 9g turn within a 1100-foot turning radius, yeah. More likely, if they can't get the angle into Key Tower (on a path down St. Clair), they'll target the luxury apartments on Lakewood's Gold Coast....

I'm not saying it is likely, just possible. I personally find the Key Tower going down a bit less interesting than the Terminal Tower. Although I don't know what impact the destruction of the Key Bank's headquarters, and presumably a large portion of the physical copies of their banking records, it seems hitting the Terminal Tower would have a wider impact.


If I were to hazard a guess, I would say that New York City and Cleveland/Pittsburgh end up much closer to each other as a result. It wouldn't surprise me to see a lot of community outreach programs between the two urban centers and perhaps even an inter-state agreement. I'd expect to see a lot of federal funding and private investments to help repair whichever city got hit.

Unfortunately, you have also killed off all jokes about Cleveland/Pittsburgh for about a decade. This will be a tragedy for comedians everywhere.

On a larger scale, I imagine there would being significantly more panic in the Midwest. "If a city like Cleveland/Pittsburgh got targeted, what is stopping them from taking down Indianapolis or Chicago? Nobody is safe!" More anti-terrorism legislation gets passed on a state level and major buildings are reinforced, as happened in New York. You might see Ohio or Pennsylvania swing a bit more to the right in elections for the next few years.
 
Along with ending all the Cleveland jokes, you just turned Drew Carey into America's most famous comedian for a few years.

As far as the actual effects politically, I think people would eventually realize that Cleveland/Pittsburgh was just a target of opportunity, instead of the original destination.
 

pnyckqx

Banned
OTL, on 9/11, Flight 93, which crashed in Pennsylvania before being able to reach whatever intended target it might have had, flew near both the cities of Cleveland Ohio, and Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

Suppose ITTL, for whatever reason say the bad guys know the other attacks have gone in but expect their chances of success have now dropped, decide near either city to simply pick the biggest building they can see in either city and hit that, figuring do what damage they can. That and maybe from picking up radio signals, maybe they find out that Bush isn't in or near Washington, so attacking an empty building wouldn't have as much significance.
Then the 28th Infantry Division (PA National Guard) and 37th Infantry Brigade (Ohio National Guard) have a particularly good record in Afghanistan and/or Iraq with a reputation for ruthlessness.

"You just go and lay your hand,
on a Pittsburgh Steelers' fan,
And I think you're gonna finally understand"
--Charlie Daniels "In America"
 
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