9/11 even more destructive...

With the suggestion of a dirty bomb or even an improvised low yield nuclear weapon. Those could not only cause great death and destruction, but also leave and entire areas contaminated and uninhabitable for decades.
 

hammo1j

Donor
As well as the appalling death toll, you have to factor in the political and economic damage done.

Bush's wars
Curtailment of freedoms
Terrible time for airlines
Interest rate reductions that led to bad loans and a housing bubble then 2008.

Could these secondary effects be any worse?
 
As well as the appalling death toll, you have to factor in the political and economic damage done.

Bush's wars
Curtailment of freedoms
Terrible time for airlines
Interest rate reductions that led to bad loans and a housing bubble then 2008.

Could these secondary effects be any worse?

A strike on the Capitol that takes out a large portion of Congress would make the impact on civil liberties much worse. You would essentially have Bush forced to govern by executive fiat for several months, with massive public pressure to take out the terrorists without waiting around for Congressional authorization. It would have been relatively easy in the climate of the time to extend that use of force to Iraq, and the new Congress that ultimately takes shape would likely be more right-wing than Congress IOTL, and pass an even more restrictive version of the PATRIOT Act. Ironically, Bush and Cheney might end up being seen as the protectors of civil liberties in this scenario for quashing legislation that expxlicitly targeted Muslims.
 
Both the House and the Senate, as well as the entirety of the Supreme Court plus the Vice President were due to be present later that day for the Australian PM to give a speech before them all. Had they somehow hit that, literally the only person left in the Federal Government would've been President Bush and perhaps one or two cabinet members in a best case scenario.

OTL, Howard would become one of the key members of the 'Coalition of the willing', along with Bush & Blair. When the attack on the Pentagon happened, he was in the middle of a press conference & was whisked to a secure bunker in the Australian Embassy along with his wife & son who were literally dragged in off the street. If he was killed in the attacks, Peter Costello (then Treasurer) would have been the likely successor as PM. There would also have been a by-election in Howard's Sydney electorate, which the Liberals would have won on the Sympathy factor. A Costello Prime Ministership would not probably have changed things much from OTL as far as Australia is concerned.


Interesting interview with the deputy PM at the time, who was acting PM as Howard was overseas. The attacks happened late night Australian time

https://www.smh.com.au/national/it-...this-was-not-make-believe-20110909-1k21y.html
 
Hm, without extra planes or different timing, would it have made a difference if Flights 77 and 93 had been swapped, so the Capitol was hit but the Pentagon wasn't?
 
A top target on Washington DC would have been the Eisenhower Executive Office building, right next door to the White House.
That's were the White House staff have their offices and where most of the real work of running the country happens.
 

hammo1j

Donor
I am not sure in terms of Presidents and staff if the Bush / Greenspan combination could have been beaten in terms of destruction that emanated.

Bush went after Iraq for God knows what reason and Greenspan flooded the world with cheap money when the US got the jitters.

Suffice to say they exacerbated the thing; they weren't to blame and I for one gave a cheer when OBL got fed to the sharks.

What an insane thing to do;what was 911 supposed to prove to the world. I am not really seeing a motive here.
 

Deleted member 96212

It would have been relatively easy in the climate of the time to extend that use of force to Iraq

Maybe I'm just jittery after binging on a TL about a war with Iran...

But you don't suppose that Iran could be invaded alongside Iraq, do you?
 
Maybe I'm just jittery after binging on a TL about a war with Iran...

But you don't suppose that Iran could be invaded alongside Iraq, do you?

I think there was less interest in invading Iran. For one thing, everyone knew it would have been much more difficult than Iraq (even the people who seriously underestimated the difficulty of invading Iraq). For another, Iran was actually attempting detente at the time, and wasn't seen as a direct threat to the U.S. (Saddam might be crazy enough to sponsor an attack on US soil, but the more institutionalized Iranian regime wouldn't be).
 
I thought these types of threads weren't allowed?
no that generally only applies to asb I haven't every seen a thread in non asb get locked for mass death scenario and if I said every single plane is suddenly carrying tsar bombs and the terriost become mind-numbing death killing super soldiers then this would get locked
 
I thought these types of threads weren't allowed?
Yes, mass death scenarios are not allowed, especially in ASB, but intelligent discussion of REAL mass death scenarios (9/11) is fine. We can talk about how four planes could more damage. We can talk about why the worst scenarios were not practical. We can talk about ten planes. We can also talk about how fragile the plans were and how the damage could be minimalized.
 
Yes, mass death scenarios are not allowed, especially in ASB, but intelligent discussion of REAL mass death scenarios (9/11) is fine. We can talk about how four planes could more damage. We can talk about why the worst scenarios were not practical. We can talk about ten planes. We can also talk about how fragile the plans were and how the damage could be minimalized.
none non thought mass death scenario are not allowed, for example everyone everyone in russia becomes a psychopath
 
So there wasn't really that politicians in the Capitol at the time?

Speaking of other targets, what would happen if the Statue of Liberty was one of the targets? Probably not much more death, but a huge cultural impact I imagine.
 
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So there wasn't really that politicians in the Capitol at the time?

Speaking of other targets, what would happen if the Statue of Liberty was one of the targets? Probably not much more death, but a huge cultural impact I imagine.
A much smaller plane, with a single pilot, could have knocked it down.
 
If the attack had managed to hit at at time when the government was vulnerable and large swathes of the government were casualties, I suspect that the example of Abraham Lincoln would be followed. When the Civil War broke out, Congress was not in session and Lincoln did a lot of things without immediate Congressional approval, his actions were confirmed by Congress when they were in session later in the year.

Bush would act and most probably the reconstituted Congress would affirm his actions.
 
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