7 Years War, Prussia destroyed.

Valdemar II

Banned
Thanks alot.:)

While on the subject of the Prussian territorium, would Brandenburg keep them (it?) or would it be given to someone else? I'd really like to hear your opinion.

Just for clarification


Prussia would lose Mark and Cleve (the two big lump in the south of the map), but likely keep the rest, maybe with exception of East Friesland, which had only been annexed in 1741. Hanover has a good chance of losing the northen part to Sweden (the former Archbiscopric of Bremen), it had only gotten it forty years early from Sweden.
 
My guess (and it is just a guess) is that Prussia would keep most of it. Austria would probably just get the parts close to their Netherlands, Prussian Gueldres and maybe Cleves. Bavaria wasn't in the war, right?If it was it would probably gain Mark and Cleves and unifying it again with Julich and Berg.

Prussia would lose Mark and Cleve (the two big lump in the south of the map), but likely keep the rest, maybe with exception of East Friesland, which had only been annexed in 1741. Hanover has a good chance of losing the northen part to Sweden (the former Archbiscopric of Bremen), it had only gotten it forty years early from Sweden.

Thank you again.

Also on the subject of East Friesland, who would get it?

Austria, Sweden, or some kind of independent chancelorship?

So does this map seem like a plausible fate for Prussia.

I put East Friesland under Sweden in the map but its up to change. I also gave the county of Hohnstein to Saxony, or would Prussia keep that as well?

munster and cologne.png
 
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You need to recolour Oldenburg. At this time it hadn't been traded with the Russian line of Schleswig-Holstein-Gottorp in exchange of the Danish King being recognized as sole heir in Schleswig-Holstein.
 
So now that we've cleared all that up, and we've established who's gained what, now back to the War of Bavarian succession.

The war was fought between Austria and an alliance of resisting Bavarians, Saxons, and Prussians over an Austrian plan made with Elector Palantine Charles IV Theodor to give the Palantine the Autrian Netherlands in exchange for Bavaria and the title "King of Burgundy."

Now with Prussia probably down for the count and Saxony right next on a longer border to Austria, could the Austrians win.

In the case of this ATL war of Bavarian Succession, I have revised my previous map after it was proven inconcievably incorrect:p

mappo.PNG
 
Brandenburg would keep Neumark and Hinterpommern (and having a good chance of losing Magdeburg to Saxony). Prussia proper would be trade by Russia for some of PL easten territories (likely the areas Russia got in the first partipation).

I agree here...Neumark and HinterPommern are integral to Brandenburg at this point. Separate Ducal Prussia under a cadet Hohenzollern under Polish suzerainty in exchange for the Smolensk regions of the first partition. AH would regain Silesia, the whole point of the exercise for A-H in the first place. It does bring up the matter of the Austrian Netherlands though and its disposition. I am not sure what the Franco Austrian agreement was regarding this. I am thinking they were to get this in the event of victory, but perhaps not.

Sweden gets its losses at the turn of the century to Prussia returned basically the rest of Vorpommern only but it will bring Stettin.

Frederick if he hasn't been killed may very well abdicate the Brandenburg throne (better he die in battle, it will be less depressing for him that way)

As to Hannover, there were some points were it was all but lost but was regained as Prussian power ebbed and flowed during the course of the war, with Prussia out its going to be an untenable situation for the Brits in the long run,

In this situation I think the French would have to do somewhat better than the historical. then again If A-H and Russia exit when Prussia is finished, the France/Spain do have to contend by themselves. Even if the French lose in Nth Am... which is a given, as Prussia probably won't be finished until 1763. that loss will give the French a freedom to move effectively against lightly held Hannover without its continental protector, making the British conquests moot in the colonies. That had been the historical pattern to date and there is no reason to think that it would differ that much. I am not saying that the French would get everything back, but the losses would be somewhat ammeliorated once Hannover is invested by the French.


btws, having a look at the historic reversal of alliances that was initiated by the British to begin with, the Austrian Netherlands were to go to France in exchange for Parma returning to Austria. Keeping the French out of these Netherlands would be a primary objective of the British. They would almost certainly disgorge the colonial conquests to a large degree in order to keep the Austrian Netherlands out of French hands

so A. Nl to the Dukes of Parma instead, Minorca and Lousiane (to keep it from being lost to the British) to Spain French claims east of the Mississippi and south of the Ohio and NFld probably go permanently to Britain. Martinique and Guadeloupe back to France. French interests in India restricted as per Otl. I am not sure what would happen with the rest of New France though. I could see the lands between the Ohio and the Great lakes also passing to Britain but I don't see the French giving up Detroit. Canada and Acadia (NB really at this point) Ile Royale and ile St. Jean remain French yet again. Mind you a little horse trading and restore Acadia in full for further French concessions in the interior.
 
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So now that we've cleared all that up, and we've established who's gained what, now back to the War of Bavarian succession.

The war was fought between Austria and an alliance of resisting Bavarians, Saxons, and Prussians over an Austrian plan made with Elector Palantine Charles IV Theodor to give the Palantine the Autrian Netherlands in exchange for Bavaria and the title "King of Burgundy."

Now with Prussia probably down for the count and Saxony right next on a longer border to Austria, could the Austrians win.

In the case of this ATL war of Bavarian Succession, I have revised my previous map after it was proven inconcievably incorrect:p

Just being the nitpick at this happy hour:
Lauenburg should be part of Hanover.
Duchies of Bar and Lorraine be a German feif held by former Polish King Stanislaws Lesczynsky! Didn't become de facto French until his death.
 
I agree here...Neumark and HinterPommern are integral to Brandenburg at this point. Separate Ducal Prussia under a cadet Hohenzollern under Polish suzerainty in exchange for the Smolensk regions of the first partition.

But would they let Ducal Prussia to a Hohenzollern, even if a cadet branch? Could it be given to Carl Christian, Duke of Courland, in exchange for Russia receiving that territory? It would please Saxony as well.
 
@dreadnought jenkins:
Before moving on to the War of Bavarian succession how about Peter 3. war on Denmark-Norway to regain his family possessions in Slesvig-Holstein? Or is be deposed off before he can bring any such schemes alive?
 
@dreadnought jenkins:
Before moving on to the War of Bavarian succession how about Peter 3. war on Denmark-Norway to regain his family possessions in Slesvig-Holstein? Or is be deposed off before he can bring any such schemes alive?


Well Elizabeth will live long enough to see the treaty through to its end, and so after the partition takes place, I would think the Russians withdraw from Prussia through Poland.

From there, I'd maybe see things go like this:

Peter doesn't have any troops on the ground near Denmark, so he either has to land the troops by see, or negotiate passage through Poland and Prussia.

Meanwhile, Catherine, concerned that Peter's growing relationship with his mistress will result in her divorce, tries to stage a coup against her husband.

Since the Seven Years War went well, there isn't so much discontent and someone rats her out.

This distracts Peter for a little bit, and he sends her off to a cloister and begins making moves for his divorce.

This probably would have to correlate at some point with the Polish election so as to ensure Sigismund II August military coup never happens.

Anyway, his proposed war against the Danes is still unpopular, and wether he tries the naval route or not, I'd assume the Common fleet is the better of the two baltic fleets and would score some victories at sea destablising any supply lines.

Into this unpopularity, Catherine escapes her imprisonment and with far more support, stages a succesfull coup.

The war against Denmark-Norway is then called off, with maybe some minor reperations going to Copenhagen to smooth things over.



I havent given it any though before due to lack of information, but now that you've mentioned it it might be interesting.

As someone mentioned earlier, it probably would be easier if Quebec/Ontario was returned to France, in exchange for Hannover being left alone.

This of course would leave the Americans with a continous French threat to the north and a British Parliament wishing to make the Americans pay their share of the war.

If this was the case, I'd see popular support for indpendence drop while the two sides eventually work out some kind of deal.

Maybe a revolt by some more ardent Patriots, but without French support or even popular support, it gets crushed. This convinces London that something should be done.

Anyway, the American Revolutionary War gets butterflied, and we need to start looking for a new global war and Britain is smarting.

Now for a change, Catherines plot fails. Seeing this, Peter III puts his plans for regaining his old familly lands on the back burner and spends some years putting his house in order reforming the Leib guards and other social and government practices.

Denmark-Norway is not ignorant of Peter's desires, and spends some time making friends.

Eventually, a decade or so later with Catherine fully divorced and in some god forsaken part of the empire, Peter moves against Denmark-Norway.

How any alliance would play out I'm not sure, but Britain has and always come out on the side opposite of France.

This is all just thoughts and possibilies, so hmmmmmm
 
I agree here...Neumark and HinterPommern are integral to Brandenburg at this point. Separate Ducal Prussia under a cadet Hohenzollern under Polish suzerainty in exchange for the Smolensk regions of the first partition.

About Prussia, I couldn't find more information about, but I've read some old threads here in AH.COM about the Seven Years War and it seems that the original Russian plan was really to give Ducal Prussia to Poland in exchange for the lands that would be conquered by the First Partition. So Prussia becomes Polish ITTL.
 
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