7 Years War, Prussia destroyed.

Every war is caused by a previous war that set the stage. For the American Revolution, it was the 7 Years War(or French and Indian War). This though has little to do with America. I am focusing on the European theater, in particular, Germany.

Prussia was near defeat in the seven years war, when Tsarina Elizabeth died and was succeded by Peter III, who was German born. When Peter took over, he halted Russias participation into the war and spared Prussia the destruction.

What if Tsarina Elizabeth had lived a little longer? What if she lived to the end of the war? How different would the history of Europe play out with a Russian controlled Prussia?
 
Probably no Polish partition without the Prussians to help instigate it, though it would probably remain a political mess.

Russia and Austria could pull the partition on their own, IMHO. That much will probably still happen, though there may be a war over who gets what.

I think this will push France towards greater involvement in Germany. They will try to get a lot more states under their wing to counterbalance the fact that Russia has a presence hundreds of miles closer to France. Austria and Britain might even go along with this, thinking of Russia as a juggernaut threatening Europe. In essence, what would have been the Napoleonic Wars will turn into a struggle against Russia.

Actually, the aforementioned possible Partition War might just be the war that unites Europe against Russia.
 
Russia and Austria could pull the partition on their own, IMHO. That much will probably still happen, though there may be a war over who gets what.

I think this will push France towards greater involvement in Germany. They will try to get a lot more states under their wing to counterbalance the fact that Russia has a presence hundreds of miles closer to France. Austria and Britain might even go along with this, thinking of Russia as a juggernaut threatening Europe. In essence, what would have been the Napoleonic Wars will turn into a struggle against Russia.

Actually, the aforementioned possible Partition War might just be the war that unites Europe against Russia.

Actually not quite. Austria was always the unwilling partner in the whole partition trio and from what I've read, only went in because it didn't want to miss out on a peice of the pie.

And was Russia aiming to grab Prussia?:confused:

The Hapsburgs actualy coveted the throne of the commonwealth, so what you might see is something more like this:

stupid and rough.png
 
And what I mean on the map above of "to Austria" is that a Hapsburg gets put on the throne. Not the Emperor himself probably, but probably a brother or second son etc.

Russia grabs the rest.
 
And what I mean on the map above of "to Austria" is that a Hapsburg gets put on the throne. Not the Emperor himself probably, but probably a brother or second son etc.

Russia grabs the rest.

East Prussia is still technically Polish, so the Russians might try to grab it too. In any case the OP says Prussia is "destroyed", right? It is possible France will see this as upsetting the Balance of Power. Even if the Russians "only" take Poland, they are still several hundred miles west of where they were before, and so it is possible for the other powers to get paranoid.
 
Only take Poland:confused:

Poland was one of THE largest states in Europe. No nation would allow a landgrab of that magnitude.

Prussia getting destroyed doesn't nescessitate Russian control.

East Prussia could get put back as a Polish vassal (and the Poles are essentially at the time vassals of Russia), and break up the rest giving a big chunk to the Austrians while making the rest into rump states, so Pomerania and Bradenburg for example.
 
Only take Poland:confused:

Poland was one of THE largest states in Europe. No nation would allow a landgrab of that magnitude.

Prussia getting destroyed doesn't nescessitate Russian control.

East Prussia could get put back as a Polish vassal (and the Poles are essentially at the time vassals of Russia), and break up the rest giving a big chunk to the Austrians while making the rest into rump states, so Pomerania and Bradenburg for example.

That's why I put only in quotes. I'm not belittling the acquisiton, only differentiating it from taking Prussia too. And I think some sort of land grab might be just the catalyst for a huge war.
 
Perhaps yes.

But we must also look at the other aspects of Prussia's collapse.

How is Britain affected. Obviously she doesn't get the total war victory on the continent and in the colonies, but Britain will probably still win in the seas. There will probably have to be some minor horse trading, but if everyone else is set on disembering Prussia, Britain might make it off with most of her gains. Then again, perhaps not.

I don't think that you'd see a grand coalition against Russia. Britain has never taken well to France, and this shift in power in the Holy Roman Empire is bound to send some problems through Austrian-French alliance.

Since Austria has always viewed Germany as her area of influences, you might actually find them allying with the British against the French, since the Hannoverians have a good interest in keeping the French as far away from their ancestrial inheritance as possible.

There is also the question of what happens to Prussia's electoral seat. Does it pass onto one of her succesor states, or to an Austrian ally. Austria can't have it, since the Hapsburgs already have Bohemia.

The destruction of Prussia has just unleashed a whole swarm of butterflies.
 
There is also the question of what happens to Prussia's electoral seat. Does it pass onto one of her succesor states, or to an Austrian ally. Austria can't have it, since the Hapsburgs already have Bohemia.

I'm not sure if they would lose the electoral seat. It was originally from Brandenburg, not Prussia, and they might keep if only for tradition.

About the Polish question, could we see France trying to convince Austria to let a a descendent of Stanislaw Leszczynski be the king? After all, the wife of Louis XV was his daughter.
 
Or possibly put another Wettin on the throne, as with Prussia now gone, Saxony will undoubtedly be under the wings of the double-headed Eagle. :D
 
I'm not sure if they would lose the electoral seat. It was originally from Brandenburg, not Prussia, and they might keep if only for tradition.

About the Polish question, could we see France trying to convince Austria to let a a descendent of Stanislaw Leszczynski be the king? After all, the wife of Louis XV was his daughter.

I don't know, Stanislaw I was never terrribly popular.

There is also another possible (kind of far out though) candidate and it'd be a snub to Britain that'd conveniently come around the end of the war (ish) and that'd be

*drumroll*

Bonnie Prince Charlie:D He was the great grandson of Jan III, who was big fan favourite and had a good reputation with the Austrians.

Perhaps then we could have a Jacobite:eek: Poland.
 
I don't know, Stanislaw I was never terrribly popular.

There is also another possible (kind of far out though) candidate and it'd be a snub to Britain that'd conveniently come around the end of the war (ish) and that'd be

*drumroll*

Bonnie Prince Charlie:D He was the great grandson of Jan III, who was big fan favourite and had a good reputation with the Austrians.

Perhaps then we could have a Jacobite:eek: Poland.

Although that would be very unlikely it is so cool that deserves a TL.:p
 
Although that would be very unlikely it is so cool that deserves a TL.:p

Well just think about it. The power in eastern Europe has shifted. The Wettins are probably going to be seen as Austrian puppets with the Hapsburgs looming large, and theres always the Russian candidates who also are pretty much viewed as puppets of St. Petersburg. Any relatives of Stanislaw I are probably going to be unpopular and here comes this leader of men, descended from one of the most popular Polish kings, and could possibly be seen to be the neutral candidate. Its a long shot yes, but to cool to pass up.

We might need him to aquit himself a bit better in a number of situations though...

That, I think, is an amazing idea.
:cool::D:cool:
 
Well just think about it. The power in eastern Europe has shifted. The Wettins are probably going to be seen as Austrian puppets with the Hapsburgs looming large, and theres always the Russian candidates who also are pretty much viewed as puppets of St. Petersburg. Any relatives of Stanislaw I are probably going to be unpopular and here comes this leader of men, descended from one of the most popular Polish kings, and could possibly be seen to be the neutral candidate. Its a long shot yes, but to cool to pass up.

We might need him to aquit himself a bit better in a number of situations though...

Also, considering that Polish elections had all sorts of strange candidates (even a Portuguese noble tried once) why not choose a Jacobite?;)
 
Also, considering that Polish elections had all sorts of strange candidates (even a Portuguese noble tried once) why not choose a Jacobite?;)

Precisely:cool:

If funds are nescessary, the French might back him.

POD: 1759, the seven years war.

Instead of showing up drunk for the war meeting which was convened to plan the invasion of England, Charles shows up sober. This causes the French Government not to dismiss him as just some lame pretender.

Ultimately, English naval victories put paid to any attempts to cross the channel, but since Charles is in a better situation, the French consider to fund his candidacy in order to insult Britain and put an ally on the throne of Poland.
 
with good ole' Charlie as King of Poland could you perhaps see those who would have supported his uprising 'The Forty-Five' move to Poland (or forced to move)? Since I assume since he would be king of Poland it would butterfly away the uprising.
 
with good ole' Charlie as King of Poland could you perhaps see those who would have supported his uprising 'The Forty-Five' move to Poland (or forced to move)? Since I assume since he would be king of Poland it would butterfly away the uprising.

Actualy, I imagined that he would be elected in 1763, at the end of the Seven Years' War, so the 45' will have been well and truly passed.
 
There is one thing that I was thinking about: if some alternate French Revolution still happens, and Charlie or his possible son is on the Polish throne, as an ally of the Bourbons the king of Poland might even declare war against the Revolutionaries. And that would make the Jacobites de facto allied to the House of Hannover.:eek:
 
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