2001 Orion Space drive

Orion-powered Discovery from 2001



  • Pre-production version of Discovery spacecraft for movie 2001 A Space Odyssey. The Orion propulsion system was later dropped. Click for larger image.
Like everything else in 2001, the good ship Discovery passed through many transformations before it reached its final shape. Obviously, it could not be a conventional chemically propelled vehicle, and there was little doubt that it would have to be nuclear-powered for the mission we envisaged. But how should the power be applied? There were several alternatives — electric thrusters using charged particles (the ion drive); jets of extremely hot gas (plasma) controlled by magnetic fields, or streams of hydrogen expanding through nozzles after they had been heated in a nuclear reactor. All these ideas have been tested on the ground, or in actual spaceflight; all are known to work.
The final decision was made on the basis of aesthetics rather than technology; we wanted Discovery to look strange yet plausible, futuristic but not fantastic. Eventually we settled on the plasma drive, though I must confess that there was a little cheating. Any nuclear-powered vehicle must have large radiating surfaces to get rid of the excess heat generated by the reactors — but this would make Discovery look somewhat odd. Our audiences already had enough to puzzle about; we didn’t want them to spend half the picture wondering why spaceships should have wings. So the radiators came off.
There was also a digression — to the great alarm, as already mentioned, of the Art Department — into a totally different form of propulsion. During the late 1950’s, American scientists had been studying an extraordinary concept (“Project Orion”) which was theoretically capable of lifting payloads of thousands of tons directly into space at high efficiency. It is still the only known method of doing this, but for rather obvious reasons it has not made much progress.
Project Orion is a nuclear-pulse system — a kind of atomic analog of the wartime V-2 or buzz-bomb. Small (kiloton) fission bombs would be exploded, at the rate of one every few seconds, fairly close to a massive pusher plate which would absorb the impulse from the explosion; even in the vacuum of space, the debris from such a mini-bomb can produce quite a kick.
The plate would be attached to the spacecraft by a shock-absorbing system that would smooth out the pulses, so that the intrepid passengers would have a steady, one gravity ride — unless the engine started to knock.
Although Project Orion sounds slightly unbelievable, extensive theoretical studies, and some tests using conventional explosives, showed that it would certainly work — and it would be many times cheaper than any other method of space propulsion. It might even be cheaper, per passenger seat, than conventional air transport — if one was thinking in terms of million-ton vehicles. But the whole project was grounded by the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, and in any case it will be quite a long time before NASA, or anybody else, is thinking on such a grandiose scale. Still, it is nice to know that the possibility exists, in case the need ever arises for a lunar equivalent of the Berlin Airlift...
When we started work on 2001, some of the Orion documents had just been declassified, and were passed on to us by scientists indignant about the demise of the project. It seemed an exciting idea to show a nuclear-pulse system in action, and a number of design studies were made of it; but after a week or so Stanley decided that putt-putting away from Earth at the rate of twenty atom bombs per minute was just a little too comic. Moreover — recalling the finale of Dr. Strangelove — it might seem to a good many people that he had started to live up to his own title and had really learned to Love the Bomb. So he dropped Orion, and the only trace of it that survives in both movie and novel is the name.
From Lost Worlds of 2001 by Sir Arthur C. Clarke (1972)




What if Stanley decided that the Orion Drive Discovery would fit in 2001?
It would not create many changes in the film.

I suspect that we would have a explanation of the drive during the interview with the Astronauts.
And Maybe see the Astronauts in their seats as the blasts take place.
And Hal explanation of the malfunction in the Communication Array would be that it was damaged during the last series of blasts.



The Big Question is what other Movies and Television Show would include Orion Drives in their Shows?


Any one have any ideas?
 
The only show that might have included a Orion Drive Spacecraft, would be Space 1999.
They did a episode in the OTL called Voyager Returns.
In it they had a Ion Drive Space Craft that cause a large number of Death when it launched.

I could see the Voyager probe being done as a Orion Drive instead of a Ion Drive.

Long Shot we might have seen a movie of Larry Niven Footfall.
 
It actually doesn't appear in the Star Trek episode that site cites. It might in one of the Blish novelizations thereof, but it's certainly not onscreen.

I think it's implied. Maybe the novelization mentions Orion explicitly.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SPOCK: Typical asteroid chemically, but it is not orbiting. It is pursing an independent course through this solar system.
KIRK: How could that be? Unless it's powered. A spaceship?
SPOCK: It is under power, Captain. And correcting for all gravitational stresses.
KIRK: Source of power?
SPOCK: Atomic. Very archaic. Leaving a trail of debris and hard radiation.
[/FONT]
 
The only show that might have included a Orion Drive Spacecraft, would be Space 1999.
They did a episode in the OTL called Voyager Returns.
In it they had a Ion Drive Space Craft that cause a large number of Death when it launched.

I could see the Voyager probe being done as a Orion Drive instead of a Ion Drive.

Long Shot we might have seen a movie of Larry Niven Footfall.

Re Space 1999: Wasn't that a 'Qweller Drive', a made up system involving a stream of Neutrons accelerated to near light speed?

If I remember correctly - I saw it when first shown and not since - the drama of the episode was that the probe was a deadly threat plus one of the Moonbase personal had lost family in a place destroyed by the Qweller Drive, and another was Ernst Qweller himself, working under a different name.

Qweller died dealing with the threat, I think.
 
Inspired by Discovery

wings_to_saturn_by_arcas_art-d54483n.jpg


A cover for the Novelization of 2001.
The Discovery has the Plasma drive from the book with the Heat radiators that Kubrick did not like.

clarke2.jpg

And a Cover for Arthur C Clark Earthlight
 
Re Space 1999: Wasn't that a 'Qweller Drive', a made up system involving a stream of Neutrons accelerated to near light speed?

If I remember correctly - I saw it when first shown and not since - the drama of the episode was that the probe was a deadly threat plus one of the Moonbase personal had lost family in a place destroyed by the Qweller Drive, and another was Ernst Qweller himself, working under a different name.

Qweller died dealing with the threat, I think.

The Novelization stated that the Qweller Drive was a Ion Drive.
As Far a I remember , you are Correct on the plot of the episode.

But Considering the impact that 2001 had on the design of Space 1999, it would not be hard to see Space Creator doing the episode with a Orion drive if 2001 had done the Orion Drive.
The Voyager Return episode seem like the best fit.

But they also could have done the space craft in Dragon Domain as a Orion Drive.
 
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I think it's implied. Maybe the novelization mentions Orion explicitly.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SPOCK: Typical asteroid chemically, but it is not orbiting. It is pursing an independent course through this solar system.
KIRK: How could that be? Unless it's powered. A spaceship?
SPOCK: It is under power, Captain. And correcting for all gravitational stresses.
KIRK: Source of power?
SPOCK: Atomic. Very archaic. Leaving a trail of debris and hard radiation.
[/FONT]


I thought of a Star Trek Voyager episode that might have been done if 2001 had done a Orion Drive.

Voyager need a rare element that is available on a planet in a Solar System ahead of them on their path home.
The planet People has Orion Drive Space Crafts.
But the Prime Directive require No Contact unless they are Warp Drive Capable.
But without the element, people will die. ( NO it can not be created in the Replicators)
Do they make First Contact?
 
I think it's implied. Maybe the novelization mentions Orion explicitly.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SPOCK: Typical asteroid chemically, but it is not orbiting. It is pursing an independent course through this solar system.
KIRK: How could that be? Unless it's powered. A spaceship?
SPOCK: It is under power, Captain. And correcting for all gravitational stresses.
KIRK: Source of power?
SPOCK: Atomic. Very archaic. Leaving a trail of debris and hard radiation.
[/FONT]

There are a Long List of Atomic Space Drives that could fit that description.
The Engine List page at the Atomic Rocket Website list most of them.
http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/enginelist.php

And the Realistic Design Page has three different entries on Orion Drive space craft
http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/realdesigns.php

One of the entries that not a Orion Drive Space craft is a Study that design a updated Discovery Spacecraft inspired by 2001.
 
Footfall Artwork

I planning to do a version 2 of My Step by Step timeline.
one of the changes in that timeline will be Movie Version of Larry Niven Footfall.
I thinking that John Milius will Direct.

There are some great Artwork online of the Spacecraft Michael.
Michael1a.jpg


Michael5a.jpg


the blueprints

michaelAldo08TB.jpg

AAnd Aldo Spadoni art work of Michael Lunching
 
More Footfall Art

michaelAldo10TB.jpg

michaelAldo09TB.jpg


More of Aldo Spadoni great art of the Spacecraft Michael from the Novel Footfall.
In the Step by Step timeline I working on, these are some of the pre production artwork for the movie version of Footfall made in the late 1990's.
 
More Questions

How would the use of Orion change the plot of 2010?


and is there any way that Orion appearing in the Movie 2001 , in 1969, result in any country building one at any point after the movie release?
 
How would the use of Orion change the plot of 2010?
Given the higher thrust of Orion, it'd make the side-by-side positioning of the Discovery and Leonov impossible--the high amplitude thrust pulses and the highly off-center of mass would tend to introduce a tumble. Thus, they'd be stuck at Jupiter and die--unless Clarke re-writes the entire plot, which is probably more likely.

and is there any way that Orion appearing in the Movie 2001 , in 1969, result in any country building one at any point after the movie release?
Nope. Only the US and the Soviets have anything like the money, and the idea was pretty much dead on arrival in either. In the 70s, the reaction among the general population of the US to using nuclear bombs as a space drive would be quite justified horror, and the Soviets don't have the capacity to waste the money on such a thing even if they were any more inclined to do so (which they weren't).
 
Realistically speaking the original concept, using atomic blasts for launch from earth, was dead on arrival from the get-go. Even if you launch from some island in the middle of nowhere you don't care about, setting off that many blasts in the atmosphere will have all sort of negative effects, not counting EMP from blasts when the ship is not yet out of the atmosphere but is now over inhabited areas. Using the pulse/blast method for ships in space is quite another issue - here the problem is how do you get all that mass up to orbit even in bits and pieces and assemble it in space.

In "Footfall" you get the atomic blast to orbit only in the face of desperation and an alien invasion that included deliberately nuking Kansas to get rid of an alien invasion site. Obviously here trashing a small portion of Washington State is a small price to pay. Absent this, setting off the required number of bombs per launch - never going to happen.
 
Given the higher thrust of Orion, it'd make the side-by-side positioning of the Discovery and Leonov impossible--the high amplitude thrust pulses and the highly off-center of mass would tend to introduce a tumble. Thus, they'd be stuck at Jupiter and die--unless Clarke re-writes the entire plot, which is probably more likely.


That what I thought.
So Clark going to be coming up with a entire different plot with a Orion Drive in 2001.

Thank you
 
Nope. Only the US and the Soviets have anything like the money, and the idea was pretty much dead on arrival in either. In the 70s, the reaction among the general population of the US to using nuclear bombs as a space drive would be quite justified horror, and the Soviets don't have the capacity to waste the money on such a thing even if they were any more inclined to do so (which they weren't).

I agree that even with the use of Orion in 2001, the changes of it being used in the real world are ASB.
But I had to ask.;)
 
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