Space Planes HO! 
Does this mean the Soviet dabbling with Spiral and the Mig 105 may go further?
Does this mean the Soviet dabbling with Spiral and the Mig 105 may go further?
2001: A Space-Time Odyssey
- Thread starter SpaceGeek
- Start date
Korolev was not about to let his American counter-parts win however and the race was on for the next Soviet space mission, Voskhod-3. Since losing control over the manned lunar programs Korolev had been pouring all his time, energy and resources into improving and upgrading the Vostok in order to maintain the Soviet Union's lead in the space race. The Three and Two Person spaceflights had given them information about crew dynamics and training techniques. The duration missions had lasted up to ten days giving them not only a world record but also biomedical data crucial for any mission to the Moon. High altitude missions had studied the Van Allen belt. Spacewalks and Extravehicular Activity had been done thrice before on previous while a psuedo rendezvous of the unmanueverable Vostok had kept the Soviets ahead in the public eye.
Vostok 10 and it's R-7 launch vehicle being assembled.
But while these early accomplishments were important and set the Vostok ahead of the Mercury it would be more difficult to keep their lead with the Gemini performing multi-day missions, spacewalks, rendezvous, docking, two person flights, two week missions were even planned that would beat the Soviet record. Not about to fall behind Korolev launched another Vostok under the designation "Kosmos-57". Onboard were three (biomedical sensor covered) dogs keenly enjoying the strange sensation of weightlessness. For thirty days these cosmo-dogs were constantly monitered to make sure the enviroment of space wasn't adversly effecting their health. It was also the test of a new generation of Vostok with a life support system that would also debut on another, more human flight.
An amalgamation of all the previous space ambitions it was ambitious indeed. Despite several delays Boris Volynov and Vladimir Shatalov took the Vostok 10 to the skies on March 19th 1965. With an apogee of over 1,000 km high the Soviets left the Gemini's altitude records far behind. The two cosmonauts settled in for ninteen days of studying the effects of long duration exposure to space on the Human body and the study of the lower Van Allen belt. Something notable happened on the fourth day inwhere the Americans launched the first manned flight of their new Gemini spacecraft (Gemini 3). For the first time in human history, the Soviets and Americans were in space together at the same time (albiet it was an unplanned co-incidence). Several experiments were also performed during the flight including Ballistic missile detection and other military experiments and even an artificial gravity experiment - deploying a tether between Vostok 10 and the spent last stage of its booster. Finally after 19 days in orbit and two successful EVAs the crew successfully landed (non-fatally impacted may have been more accurate) in Kazakhstan. After recovering from their injuries they became Heroes of the USSR, for maintaining the domination and utter embarrassment of American engineers and the public. Nikita Krushchev and rising Politburo member Alexei Kosygin personally met with Volynov and Shatalov. While the Americans would fly four, eight and then fourteen day flights Vostok 10's record would last for years to come. This would however, be the only Soviet Manned spaceflight of the year.
Meanwhile development of the UR-500 8K82 or "Proton" prototype launch vehicle was already begining. This vehicle would serve the basis for the full scale Proton-K that would throw the Manned LK-1 spacecraft onto a circumlunar trajectory around the Moon. This in turn would serve as the basis for a much larger vehicle, the UR-700, which would send cosmonauts all the way to the surface of the Moon and back in one direct throw. These first launches then were critical. Finally, on July 16th 1965, the rocket lept from it's pad precisely as intended for a stable orbit managing to put a small communication satellite into it's desired position. A second launch on November 2nd, 1965 proved even more perfect than the previous one with little or no malfunctions of any kind. Chelomei, embolden by his recent success, and made the Communist Party well aware of it. Two more launches would be neccesary before the complete Proton was ready, but it looked for the designers involved, as if the tides were turning their way. Little did they know just how many roadblocks they would face between now and that fatefuly July day, 1969.
Vostok 10 and it's R-7 launch vehicle being assembled.
But while these early accomplishments were important and set the Vostok ahead of the Mercury it would be more difficult to keep their lead with the Gemini performing multi-day missions, spacewalks, rendezvous, docking, two person flights, two week missions were even planned that would beat the Soviet record. Not about to fall behind Korolev launched another Vostok under the designation "Kosmos-57". Onboard were three (biomedical sensor covered) dogs keenly enjoying the strange sensation of weightlessness. For thirty days these cosmo-dogs were constantly monitered to make sure the enviroment of space wasn't adversly effecting their health. It was also the test of a new generation of Vostok with a life support system that would also debut on another, more human flight.
An amalgamation of all the previous space ambitions it was ambitious indeed. Despite several delays Boris Volynov and Vladimir Shatalov took the Vostok 10 to the skies on March 19th 1965. With an apogee of over 1,000 km high the Soviets left the Gemini's altitude records far behind. The two cosmonauts settled in for ninteen days of studying the effects of long duration exposure to space on the Human body and the study of the lower Van Allen belt. Something notable happened on the fourth day inwhere the Americans launched the first manned flight of their new Gemini spacecraft (Gemini 3). For the first time in human history, the Soviets and Americans were in space together at the same time (albiet it was an unplanned co-incidence). Several experiments were also performed during the flight including Ballistic missile detection and other military experiments and even an artificial gravity experiment - deploying a tether between Vostok 10 and the spent last stage of its booster. Finally after 19 days in orbit and two successful EVAs the crew successfully landed (non-fatally impacted may have been more accurate) in Kazakhstan. After recovering from their injuries they became Heroes of the USSR, for maintaining the domination and utter embarrassment of American engineers and the public. Nikita Krushchev and rising Politburo member Alexei Kosygin personally met with Volynov and Shatalov. While the Americans would fly four, eight and then fourteen day flights Vostok 10's record would last for years to come. This would however, be the only Soviet Manned spaceflight of the year.
Meanwhile development of the UR-500 8K82 or "Proton" prototype launch vehicle was already begining. This vehicle would serve the basis for the full scale Proton-K that would throw the Manned LK-1 spacecraft onto a circumlunar trajectory around the Moon. This in turn would serve as the basis for a much larger vehicle, the UR-700, which would send cosmonauts all the way to the surface of the Moon and back in one direct throw. These first launches then were critical. Finally, on July 16th 1965, the rocket lept from it's pad precisely as intended for a stable orbit managing to put a small communication satellite into it's desired position. A second launch on November 2nd, 1965 proved even more perfect than the previous one with little or no malfunctions of any kind. Chelomei, embolden by his recent success, and made the Communist Party well aware of it. Two more launches would be neccesary before the complete Proton was ready, but it looked for the designers involved, as if the tides were turning their way. Little did they know just how many roadblocks they would face between now and that fatefuly July day, 1969.
ESDO Years 1965-1968
ESDO
Years 1965-1968
The Test flight F5 delay more and more on French Problem, There Test launches of Coralie were problematic
As Hawker Siddeley tested the first ready french second stage, they found wrong wiring, also the German third stage test model was inspected and send back as "unemployable" again the Electric system.
On political side 1966 was a hard year, the Government of Harold Wilson threaten ESDO with British withdrawal , Wilson faced negative press who saw ESDO as "British" organization
Then came the French with idea to stop work on Europa-I and go for more advance rocket for communications satellite launch
In end ESDO London headquarters serve again as "bureaucratic" buffer for meddling ministers, now with new Segment the European Telecommunications by Satellite or ETCS.
and design of Europa 1B, by adding a four french stage to Europa-1, While the advance Europa-2 Development is delay to 1970s, after Europe-1 and 1B are Operational.
Britain reduce there founding to ESDO, while Canada become full member and fill up the budget gap.
August 1967 test launch F5, the Blue streak work 3 second short, but the Coralie work perfect, while payload faring refused to open. the error was a lose electrical plug.
but the F6 in december 1967 was a fiasco, the rocket had sub system problems delaying the Launch by two months. in Coralie the oxidation of oxidizer NTO damage the valve to engine.
so was the Coralie unable to ignite after separation, a small consolation was that now the payload faring worked…
All hope lies now on test launch F7 with complete rocket and first test satellite STV, but the launch was delay on problems with German third stage: the Electric system isolation.
also came delay by the may 68 political uprise in France, that Harald Wilson used both as excuse for British withdrawal out ESDO.
Then on 30 November 1968, Harold Wilson delivery a nation wide televised address, about British withdrawal out ESDO on February 1969 and review French British Join-Venture programs.
.
In middle of address, ESDO launch in Woomera the F7, eight minute later STV over flew Britain so on after Wilson address came the braking news that ESDO had success.
next day the Tabloid headline "ESDO SHOW WILSON A 110' HIGH MIDDEL FINGER of STEEL" or "SAVE BRITISH AEROSPACE FROM THIS MAD MAN!"
This was to much for British Prime-minister already in deep problem with French about his menace to stop there Join-Venture programs, Now he was public humiliated by a European Organization
The Tory opposition was waiting on this opportunity to strike back. While The French threaten Wilson for the consequence.
ESDO had won the battle not the war, F7 show a problem STV came in much lower orbit as expected, the problem was found in german third stage, a polluted helium valve.
ESDO
Years 1965-1968
The Test flight F5 delay more and more on French Problem, There Test launches of Coralie were problematic
As Hawker Siddeley tested the first ready french second stage, they found wrong wiring, also the German third stage test model was inspected and send back as "unemployable" again the Electric system.
On political side 1966 was a hard year, the Government of Harold Wilson threaten ESDO with British withdrawal , Wilson faced negative press who saw ESDO as "British" organization
Then came the French with idea to stop work on Europa-I and go for more advance rocket for communications satellite launch
In end ESDO London headquarters serve again as "bureaucratic" buffer for meddling ministers, now with new Segment the European Telecommunications by Satellite or ETCS.
and design of Europa 1B, by adding a four french stage to Europa-1, While the advance Europa-2 Development is delay to 1970s, after Europe-1 and 1B are Operational.
Britain reduce there founding to ESDO, while Canada become full member and fill up the budget gap.
August 1967 test launch F5, the Blue streak work 3 second short, but the Coralie work perfect, while payload faring refused to open. the error was a lose electrical plug.
but the F6 in december 1967 was a fiasco, the rocket had sub system problems delaying the Launch by two months. in Coralie the oxidation of oxidizer NTO damage the valve to engine.
so was the Coralie unable to ignite after separation, a small consolation was that now the payload faring worked…
All hope lies now on test launch F7 with complete rocket and first test satellite STV, but the launch was delay on problems with German third stage: the Electric system isolation.
also came delay by the may 68 political uprise in France, that Harald Wilson used both as excuse for British withdrawal out ESDO.
Then on 30 November 1968, Harold Wilson delivery a nation wide televised address, about British withdrawal out ESDO on February 1969 and review French British Join-Venture programs.
.
In middle of address, ESDO launch in Woomera the F7, eight minute later STV over flew Britain so on after Wilson address came the braking news that ESDO had success.
next day the Tabloid headline "ESDO SHOW WILSON A 110' HIGH MIDDEL FINGER of STEEL" or "SAVE BRITISH AEROSPACE FROM THIS MAD MAN!"
This was to much for British Prime-minister already in deep problem with French about his menace to stop there Join-Venture programs, Now he was public humiliated by a European Organization
The Tory opposition was waiting on this opportunity to strike back. While The French threaten Wilson for the consequence.
ESDO had won the battle not the war, F7 show a problem STV came in much lower orbit as expected, the problem was found in german third stage, a polluted helium valve.
Despite losing his seat to the Politburo in mid 1952 (just prior to the death of Jospeph Stalin) because of stalinis treactionaries as a staunch ally of Khrushchev, his political career soon turned around for the better. Although he was never one of Khrushchev's protégés, Kosygin quickly moved up the CPSU party ladder. By the time of the Sputnik 1 and 2 satellite launches in late 1957 he had already become an official of the State Planning Commitee and was made a candidate member of the Politburo.
By 1960 Kosygin was promoted to the State Planning Commitee chairmanship and became Khrushche's First Deputy Premier. This changed his life significantly because as First Deputy Premier Kosygin traveled around the world, mostly on trade missions, to countries such as North Korea, India, Argentina and Italy. As Gagarin and Titov where orbiting the world, Kosygin was able to regaine his old seat in the Politburo during the 22nd Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU). Just a year later he was already the Soviet spokesman for improved relations between the Soviet Union and the United States. This often included some state visits with some hilarious results
In 1964 Kosygin acheived a major political success. Back on February 23rd 1961 the Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet, Lenoid Brezhnev after his diplomatic plane was shot down over Algeria in what is commonly refered to as the Brezhnev incident. After that Khrushchev appointed Anastas Mikoyan to the position. However by 1964 the Mikoyan to retired from his seat in the Politburo due to old age. As Alexei Kosygin in turn, took his place on July 15th 1964. His influence was responsible for a series of successful economic reform that led to the improvement of living standard for the Soviet people. Unlike some Stalinist Deviants claim he was not acting as a revisionist but simply applying Marxism-Leninism in a unique and creative way as the historical conditions of Russia have demanded for Socialism with Russian Characteristics. His democratic succession of Khrushchev as General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU) in 1969 and policies enacted strengthend socialism through Market forces rather than reviving Capitalism as counter-revolutionary stalinist and bourgeois elements have claimed.
Chapter 2 Red Rise
- Kosygin: A Short Biography, by The Institute of Marxism-Leninism, CPSU Central Committee © 2006
By 1960 Kosygin was promoted to the State Planning Commitee chairmanship and became Khrushche's First Deputy Premier. This changed his life significantly because as First Deputy Premier Kosygin traveled around the world, mostly on trade missions, to countries such as North Korea, India, Argentina and Italy. As Gagarin and Titov where orbiting the world, Kosygin was able to regaine his old seat in the Politburo during the 22nd Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU). Just a year later he was already the Soviet spokesman for improved relations between the Soviet Union and the United States. This often included some state visits with some hilarious results
In 1964 Kosygin acheived a major political success. Back on February 23rd 1961 the Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet, Lenoid Brezhnev after his diplomatic plane was shot down over Algeria in what is commonly refered to as the Brezhnev incident. After that Khrushchev appointed Anastas Mikoyan to the position. However by 1964 the Mikoyan to retired from his seat in the Politburo due to old age. As Alexei Kosygin in turn, took his place on July 15th 1964. His influence was responsible for a series of successful economic reform that led to the improvement of living standard for the Soviet people. Unlike some Stalinist Deviants claim he was not acting as a revisionist but simply applying Marxism-Leninism in a unique and creative way as the historical conditions of Russia have demanded for Socialism with Russian Characteristics. His democratic succession of Khrushchev as General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU) in 1969 and policies enacted strengthend socialism through Market forces rather than reviving Capitalism as counter-revolutionary stalinist and bourgeois elements have claimed.
Chapter 2 Red Rise
- Kosygin: A Short Biography, by The Institute of Marxism-Leninism, CPSU Central Committee © 2006
Dirk_Pitt
Banned
Someone made a commend about the Discovery from the book/movie and asked what would be discovered on the moon to prompt the launch of Discovery.
[/inner nerd]Actually, the Discovery was already planned for another mission prior to the discovery of the Monolith on the Moon. This was the cause of HAL's psychosis, which led to him the entire crew except David Bowman.[inner nerd]
Sorry for the hijack. Just one of those things...
[/inner nerd]Actually, the Discovery was already planned for another mission prior to the discovery of the Monolith on the Moon. This was the cause of HAL's psychosis, which led to him the entire crew except David Bowman.[inner nerd]
Sorry for the hijack. Just one of those things...
The British-French Join Venture and Harald Wilson
we focus now on What British and French are working on together
The British-French Join Venture and Harald Wilson
This threat by Soviet union was taken seriously by France and as a result they got closer into the NATO alliance.
At the same time they increased their efforts on nuclear armament by developing Bombers, Missiles and Submarines.
Then in 1962 under the interim presidency of Gaston Monnerville, France got a chance for increases their Join Venture with Great Britain
where they already started with building a Satellite launcher with Britain. Monnerville and the British Prime Minister Macmillan signed a treaty about:
development of Strategic Weapon Systems, VTOL, a supersonic airliner and ESDO. In exchange France had gained Britain access to the European community.
Returning de Gaulle was not happy about this, but he accepted this treaty perforce, the benefit for France in the current situation were better.
So he abandoned his resistance and on 1963 Great Britain entered the European community, on the long term, a blessing for British Industry.
On December 22nd, 1962 however something happened that change this Join Venture into a Defense pact: the US-GB crisis about GAM-87 Skybolt.
An Air launched ballistic missile for USAF and planned back bone for british independent nuclear deterrence.
The project went well with first test flight on 19 december, until on December 22nd Robert McNamara canceled this USAF project, considering it a unnecessary.
Sadly he had forgotten that GAM-87 Skybolt was needed by Britain, on the news protest broke out in the British House of Commons.
Britain had canceled all other programs like Blue Streak for Skybolt, this led to a serious political crisis between the United States and Great Britain.
Only partially solved in the Nassau agreement, Great Britain had to buy the Polaris Submarine with Polaris SLBM, but with British warheads, but it would take to 1968 to get them!
This meant a 6 year gap in Britain nuclear deterrence.
Here the French jumped in, they proposed as a Skybolt replacement the solid rocket VE111L Topaze for RAF, as it just finishes it's test flight.
The British take the opportunity, as in September 1963, Robert McNamara order the deactivation of PGM-17 Thor base in Britain, considering the Thor missile obsolete by the time.
This poisoned the British US relation deeply.
The British French were working on a new supersonic Bomber the BAC TSR.2, the VTOL aircraft, the Concorde and Europa-1 rocket.
the work on Replacement for Skybolt and Thor, the Topaz missile went well and collaboration about the Antiballistic Missile system Violet Friend started.
In the first phase it should protect London and Paris, in the advanced phase the major populated areas.
But in 1964 came a major problem: Harold Wilson
the ruling Tory party lost narrowly against the socialist Labor party
In the first 3 years Wilson concentrated his politics on economic policies, especially Britain in EC and Pound Sterling devaluation.
His cabinet swung the budget axe in many programs, the famous victims were Topaz ALBM, the VTOL program and TSR.2
The supersonic Bomber feature extremely sophisticated Technology in Navigation, Satellite communication and avionics, which made it expensive.
Wilson cabinet claimed that TSR.2 was extreme expensive and that american F-111 was cheaper and more superior.
In realty the inferior F-111 project was in deep problems and far way over budget and soon the unpopular order for 110 x F-111K were canceled by the Wilson cabinet in 1965.
At the same time in BAC factory the unfinished TSR.2 units were cut up with blow torch, while on parking lot it's Plans and documentation were burned in a bonfire, on order Wilson cabinet.
From France came the solution, by Marcel Dassault, He proposed BAC to adapt the Mirage IV with hardware of TSR.2
so BAC/Rolls-Royce/Dassault present the Mirage IVK as TSR.2 replacement. much cheaper at same mission performance.
Non opposition by Secretary of state for Defense Denis Healey, he was murder by a Chagossian at diplomatic diner party
as revenge by Chagossian pepole who all were evicted from there Home land, the Chagos Island on order by Denis Healey, to make place for a military base there.
BAC/Rolls-Royce/Dassault manage a deal for 75 Mirage IVK for RAF and again 75 for French Air force replacing the older now inferior Mirage IV
build on two production line one at Dassault in France, the other BAC in Britian.
in same time the VTOL aircraft P.1127 became RAF and RN VTOL Harrier, while it's Pegasus engine were taken by Dassault for there VTOL aircraft MD610 "Cavalier"
In 1966 came next attempt by Wilson to swing the budget axe, this time at ESDO, unsuccessfully because Membership of Canada into ESDO began to fill the budget gap.
Also was british press criticizing Wilson cabinet on "destroying british aerospace industry" and tampering with British institutions like ESDO in London.
Then in 1967/68 costs in Join Venture Concorde, Mirage IVK, Violet Friend and ESDO rose. Harold Wilson considered all those project a waste of time and tax money.
With problems at ESDO and the May 1968 political uprise in france, Harald Wilson used both as an excuse for British withdrawal out of the Join Venture.
Then on saturday night 30 November 1968, Harald Wilson made a major mistake, by delivering a nation wide televised address,
about British withdrawal out of the "useless" ESDO on February 1969 and review the "expensive" Joint Venture programs and Defense pact.
During this address ESDO began to strike back with the successful launch of the Europa-1 Rocket, just as Wilson was finished, the BBC announce that STV reached Orbit over Britain.
The next morning the sunday editions of the Tabloid ridiculed the Prime-Minister.
Monday morning, Harold Wilson was ordered for private meeting to Buckingham Palace,
On his return to 10 Downing Street, were the French Ambassador is waiting impatient for to talk with Wilson in name of french President.
as the Ambassador left the building, came unscheduled meeting with cabinet, that take several hours.
Great Britain was surprised by evening announcement, that Wilson's cabinet resigned from office with new elections coming.
All over the world, the media made wild speculations why Harold Wilson resign and refused to be candidate again.
Some conspiracy authors later claim that Wilson faced a british Army putsch or that French intelligence officers were involve in his resign.
Fact is Harold Wilson took this secret into his grave in 1995, while the French put the files under Classified.
And her Queen do not talk about here way working with her prime-minsters.
Edward Heath about Harold Wilson only premiership 1964-1968
we focus now on What British and French are working on together
The British-French Join Venture and Harald Wilson
Nikita Khrushchev at U.N. february 1961 in wake of Brezhnev incident.
This threat by Soviet union was taken seriously by France and as a result they got closer into the NATO alliance.
At the same time they increased their efforts on nuclear armament by developing Bombers, Missiles and Submarines.
Then in 1962 under the interim presidency of Gaston Monnerville, France got a chance for increases their Join Venture with Great Britain
where they already started with building a Satellite launcher with Britain. Monnerville and the British Prime Minister Macmillan signed a treaty about:
development of Strategic Weapon Systems, VTOL, a supersonic airliner and ESDO. In exchange France had gained Britain access to the European community.
Returning de Gaulle was not happy about this, but he accepted this treaty perforce, the benefit for France in the current situation were better.
So he abandoned his resistance and on 1963 Great Britain entered the European community, on the long term, a blessing for British Industry.
On December 22nd, 1962 however something happened that change this Join Venture into a Defense pact: the US-GB crisis about GAM-87 Skybolt.
An Air launched ballistic missile for USAF and planned back bone for british independent nuclear deterrence.
The project went well with first test flight on 19 december, until on December 22nd Robert McNamara canceled this USAF project, considering it a unnecessary.
Sadly he had forgotten that GAM-87 Skybolt was needed by Britain, on the news protest broke out in the British House of Commons.
Britain had canceled all other programs like Blue Streak for Skybolt, this led to a serious political crisis between the United States and Great Britain.
Only partially solved in the Nassau agreement, Great Britain had to buy the Polaris Submarine with Polaris SLBM, but with British warheads, but it would take to 1968 to get them!
This meant a 6 year gap in Britain nuclear deterrence.
Here the French jumped in, they proposed as a Skybolt replacement the solid rocket VE111L Topaze for RAF, as it just finishes it's test flight.
The British take the opportunity, as in September 1963, Robert McNamara order the deactivation of PGM-17 Thor base in Britain, considering the Thor missile obsolete by the time.
This poisoned the British US relation deeply.
Richard M. Nixon during David Frost interview, 1977
The British French were working on a new supersonic Bomber the BAC TSR.2, the VTOL aircraft, the Concorde and Europa-1 rocket.
the work on Replacement for Skybolt and Thor, the Topaz missile went well and collaboration about the Antiballistic Missile system Violet Friend started.
In the first phase it should protect London and Paris, in the advanced phase the major populated areas.
But in 1964 came a major problem: Harold Wilson
the ruling Tory party lost narrowly against the socialist Labor party
In the first 3 years Wilson concentrated his politics on economic policies, especially Britain in EC and Pound Sterling devaluation.
His cabinet swung the budget axe in many programs, the famous victims were Topaz ALBM, the VTOL program and TSR.2
The supersonic Bomber feature extremely sophisticated Technology in Navigation, Satellite communication and avionics, which made it expensive.
Wilson cabinet claimed that TSR.2 was extreme expensive and that american F-111 was cheaper and more superior.
In realty the inferior F-111 project was in deep problems and far way over budget and soon the unpopular order for 110 x F-111K were canceled by the Wilson cabinet in 1965.
At the same time in BAC factory the unfinished TSR.2 units were cut up with blow torch, while on parking lot it's Plans and documentation were burned in a bonfire, on order Wilson cabinet.
From France came the solution, by Marcel Dassault, He proposed BAC to adapt the Mirage IV with hardware of TSR.2
so BAC/Rolls-Royce/Dassault present the Mirage IVK as TSR.2 replacement. much cheaper at same mission performance.
Non opposition by Secretary of state for Defense Denis Healey, he was murder by a Chagossian at diplomatic diner party
as revenge by Chagossian pepole who all were evicted from there Home land, the Chagos Island on order by Denis Healey, to make place for a military base there.
BAC/Rolls-Royce/Dassault manage a deal for 75 Mirage IVK for RAF and again 75 for French Air force replacing the older now inferior Mirage IV
build on two production line one at Dassault in France, the other BAC in Britian.
in same time the VTOL aircraft P.1127 became RAF and RN VTOL Harrier, while it's Pegasus engine were taken by Dassault for there VTOL aircraft MD610 "Cavalier"
In 1966 came next attempt by Wilson to swing the budget axe, this time at ESDO, unsuccessfully because Membership of Canada into ESDO began to fill the budget gap.
Also was british press criticizing Wilson cabinet on "destroying british aerospace industry" and tampering with British institutions like ESDO in London.
Then in 1967/68 costs in Join Venture Concorde, Mirage IVK, Violet Friend and ESDO rose. Harold Wilson considered all those project a waste of time and tax money.
With problems at ESDO and the May 1968 political uprise in france, Harald Wilson used both as an excuse for British withdrawal out of the Join Venture.
Then on saturday night 30 November 1968, Harald Wilson made a major mistake, by delivering a nation wide televised address,
about British withdrawal out of the "useless" ESDO on February 1969 and review the "expensive" Joint Venture programs and Defense pact.
During this address ESDO began to strike back with the successful launch of the Europa-1 Rocket, just as Wilson was finished, the BBC announce that STV reached Orbit over Britain.
The next morning the sunday editions of the Tabloid ridiculed the Prime-Minister.
Monday morning, Harold Wilson was ordered for private meeting to Buckingham Palace,
On his return to 10 Downing Street, were the French Ambassador is waiting impatient for to talk with Wilson in name of french President.
as the Ambassador left the building, came unscheduled meeting with cabinet, that take several hours.
Great Britain was surprised by evening announcement, that Wilson's cabinet resigned from office with new elections coming.
All over the world, the media made wild speculations why Harold Wilson resign and refused to be candidate again.
Some conspiracy authors later claim that Wilson faced a british Army putsch or that French intelligence officers were involve in his resign.
Fact is Harold Wilson took this secret into his grave in 1995, while the French put the files under Classified.
And her Queen do not talk about here way working with her prime-minsters.
Edward Heath about Harold Wilson only premiership 1964-1968
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Sad to see Wilson go. He gets a lot of heat (particularly on our own wiki) for mucking up the British space program, but looking at the thing as a whole, and the fact that the Black Arrow program happened on his watch, and was then shut down immediately by the new incoming government...in a way, he actually set up a lot of stuff that his predecessors chose not to, and which his successors willfully ignored and cancelled.
Aha, so the real POD is back when Wilson was born and his parents, in a fit of Scandiphilia, gave him the Norwegian version of his name! Wasn't enough...actually while the OTL Wilson did cut all those programs (except Concorde obviously) I don't think he ever crashed and burned so spectacularly. But then I don't really know anything about it.I Saw What You Did There with Monnerville some weeks ago when you posted it; tying France and Britain more closely together than either De Gaulle or many British politicians and voters might like; I had a reply but it got too out of hand.
I'm glad to see Europa successful though I'd be gladder if the British contribution were based more on Black Knight/Black Arrow hydrogen peroxide engines--but one factor restraining me from going completely nuts on the subject of kerosene-peroxide is that all the real world engines (except one recent one) I can find evidence of had limited thrust and not extremely impressive ISP. To be sure the Bristol-Siddeley Gamma engines with ISP around 250 are not so far short of the mediocre ISP of 280 I reckon would be HTHP-kerosene's theoretical limit--but Mark Wade gives that as more like 300 or more. Anyway the Gammas were rather puny little things; I suppose Blue Steel's ker-lox engine was far more powerful. And there's nothing wrong with ker-lox for the first stage! Too bad about the hypergolic upper stages though. I'd have liked to see them replaced with improved Gamma engines but the point of ELDO is it can't be a all-British show. So, looking forward to French and/or German ventures into LH/LOX upper stages then!
Shevek,
Since I've actually been looking into H2O2 myself, for much the same reasons you are--an alternative for typical hypergols for long-duration spacecraft and manned vehicles--I thought I'd share a word on a rather serious problem: H2O2 comes with its own "boil-off" equivalent. Hydrogen peroxide is unstable (which is why it makes such a good monopropellant), and as temperature and concentration rise, the tendency to decompose spontaneously rises. For this, read, "for your oxidizer to spontaneously catch on fire, then explode in you tanks" as a worst case and "gradually become useless H2O and O2" as a best case.
I'd need to do some chemistry I haven't touched since AP Chem to work out the reaction rates, and things like a half-life for H2O2 in various conditions, but I do know that Soyuz, which uses H2O2 for its reentry control thrusters, owes its hard 6-month on-orbit lifetime to this issue. That's...a serious challenge to overcome for use in anything intended for BEO or extended life in a LEO satellite. It's less of an issue for an upper stage, but lighting a hydrolox, methalox, or kerolox engine is a well-solved problem, and in upper stages every second of ISp really does count. I'm still interested in it, but it's rather cooled my enthusiasm for the mixture.
Since I've actually been looking into H2O2 myself, for much the same reasons you are--an alternative for typical hypergols for long-duration spacecraft and manned vehicles--I thought I'd share a word on a rather serious problem: H2O2 comes with its own "boil-off" equivalent. Hydrogen peroxide is unstable (which is why it makes such a good monopropellant), and as temperature and concentration rise, the tendency to decompose spontaneously rises. For this, read, "for your oxidizer to spontaneously catch on fire, then explode in you tanks" as a worst case and "gradually become useless H2O and O2" as a best case.
I'd need to do some chemistry I haven't touched since AP Chem to work out the reaction rates, and things like a half-life for H2O2 in various conditions, but I do know that Soyuz, which uses H2O2 for its reentry control thrusters, owes its hard 6-month on-orbit lifetime to this issue. That's...a serious challenge to overcome for use in anything intended for BEO or extended life in a LEO satellite. It's less of an issue for an upper stage, but lighting a hydrolox, methalox, or kerolox engine is a well-solved problem, and in upper stages every second of ISp really does count. I'm still interested in it, but it's rather cooled my enthusiasm for the mixture.
on Concorde, one reason it survived was that the French threaten to sue the Harold Wilson government in Den Haag to for fill there part of Treaty.
Harold Wilson was victim of his ministers like Denis Healey for defense and Tony Benn for Technology who explain during his time: Britain don't need a Space Program
On Black Arrow
It was minimum program using existing hardware like it's the Bristol-Siddeley Gamma engines from the Black Knight.
they look into improvements like increase of chamber pressure pushing the isp to 225 sec sl and 294 sec vac.
also use of four raven solid rocket motors
it surveyed the Wilson's cabinet also because it was (theoretical) a backup for second and Third stage of Europa 1 rocket in 1966.
Harold Wilson was victim of his ministers like Denis Healey for defense and Tony Benn for Technology who explain during his time: Britain don't need a Space Program
On Black Arrow
It was minimum program using existing hardware like it's the Bristol-Siddeley Gamma engines from the Black Knight.
they look into improvements like increase of chamber pressure pushing the isp to 225 sec sl and 294 sec vac.
also use of four raven solid rocket motors
it surveyed the Wilson's cabinet also because it was (theoretical) a backup for second and Third stage of Europa 1 rocket in 1966.
I don't know if the General Kinetics company of Huntington Beach CA is familiar to you but the former president of the now-defunct company wrote lots of papers on HTHP, including one on the subject of storing it. Their papers are posted here.
The NASASpaceflight.com thread that led me to those includes a post that claims the stuff stabilizes completely (in a suitably non-reactive and clean container of course) at 40 degees Fahrenheit.
You'll note that while I've settled for suggesting it in roles such as orbital space craft maneuvering engines, where indeed it would be difficult to keep it chilled just to above freezing over long periods, I mainly have been thinking of it as oxidant (and by far the major propellant component) for first stages. Partially on the theory that when firing a rocket in the lower atmosphere, ISP tends to be equalized--the higher ISP mixes suffer more deterioration due to atmospheric pressure and wind up being only modestly better than others with much lower vacuum ISP. Partially because a first stage is bloody huge, so making it denser counts for more. Partially because it tends to burn clean, a weightier matter for the first stage because it is burning right on the ground, barely leaving the vicinity of the pad while spewing many tons per second.
Partly also because I had the notion that a compensation for lower ISP is that the combustion should occur in cooler but denser conditions, so that making an engine of given thrust using it should be easier--lighter, using less simpler alloys that don't need to endure the same high temperatures a better-ISP mix would require, therefore cheaper and easier to reach a given state of the art sooner in history. Thrust beats ISP for first stages as you've discovered and shared, and this is sort of the logical conclusion that takes me to. (Barring solids of course).
Sadly the few major HTHP projects I've been able to discover (except of course for Beale's grandiose project of the last decade, striving for an engine that would put the F-1 in the shade--and firing one meant for a second stage that was already more powerful, IIRC) have been rather puny--quite a leap from the H-S Gamma to an F-1!
But mainly I have to admit it looks like the window for big peroxide burning booster stages has come and gone; it would have been a matter of one of the rival/allied powers or pretenders to being a power in the 1950s to take it up. The British did, to a quite limited extent but then got into line with ker-lox for their serious missile and bid for a launch vehicle.
As you say, the storage is largely the issue. If it is true that large tanks of the stuff have been kept 15 years or more as I think I read claimed in one of those General Kinetics papers, then clearly it could have been a viable contender for a missile propellant in the 1950s, and thus perhaps the propellant that orbited the first satellite.
It might have happened here, if the British had persisted with Black Knight. Evidently not though.
It's getting close to the time we'd expect to see rockets in Jonathan Edelstein's Malê Rising timeine, but I'm waiting until he posts more about the situation in Russia before bringing that up there.
The NASASpaceflight.com thread that led me to those includes a post that claims the stuff stabilizes completely (in a suitably non-reactive and clean container of course) at 40 degees Fahrenheit.
You'll note that while I've settled for suggesting it in roles such as orbital space craft maneuvering engines, where indeed it would be difficult to keep it chilled just to above freezing over long periods, I mainly have been thinking of it as oxidant (and by far the major propellant component) for first stages. Partially on the theory that when firing a rocket in the lower atmosphere, ISP tends to be equalized--the higher ISP mixes suffer more deterioration due to atmospheric pressure and wind up being only modestly better than others with much lower vacuum ISP. Partially because a first stage is bloody huge, so making it denser counts for more. Partially because it tends to burn clean, a weightier matter for the first stage because it is burning right on the ground, barely leaving the vicinity of the pad while spewing many tons per second.
Partly also because I had the notion that a compensation for lower ISP is that the combustion should occur in cooler but denser conditions, so that making an engine of given thrust using it should be easier--lighter, using less simpler alloys that don't need to endure the same high temperatures a better-ISP mix would require, therefore cheaper and easier to reach a given state of the art sooner in history. Thrust beats ISP for first stages as you've discovered and shared, and this is sort of the logical conclusion that takes me to. (Barring solids of course).
Sadly the few major HTHP projects I've been able to discover (except of course for Beale's grandiose project of the last decade, striving for an engine that would put the F-1 in the shade--and firing one meant for a second stage that was already more powerful, IIRC) have been rather puny--quite a leap from the H-S Gamma to an F-1!
But mainly I have to admit it looks like the window for big peroxide burning booster stages has come and gone; it would have been a matter of one of the rival/allied powers or pretenders to being a power in the 1950s to take it up. The British did, to a quite limited extent but then got into line with ker-lox for their serious missile and bid for a launch vehicle.
As you say, the storage is largely the issue. If it is true that large tanks of the stuff have been kept 15 years or more as I think I read claimed in one of those General Kinetics papers, then clearly it could have been a viable contender for a missile propellant in the 1950s, and thus perhaps the propellant that orbited the first satellite.
It might have happened here, if the British had persisted with Black Knight. Evidently not though.
It's getting close to the time we'd expect to see rockets in Jonathan Edelstein's Malê Rising timeine, but I'm waiting until he posts more about the situation in Russia before bringing that up there.
oh Shevek23
wait and see what happen with Black Arrow in this TL
no i not gonna spoil
but first SpaceGeek next post or
then my Hardware list of British-French Join venture (with Picture).
wait and see what happen with Black Arrow in this TL
no i not gonna spoil
but first SpaceGeek next post or
then my Hardware list of British-French Join venture (with Picture).
Given the problems H2o2 has had in the real world (eg the British subs HMS Exploder and HMS Excruciating, and the infamous Kursk explosion), the fact that a special stablized tank on the ground lasted 15 years, when we're talking space use withe huge vibrations on launch, and large temperature variations in orbit, doesnt fill me with a lot of confidence. As in, its a disaster waiting to happen....
Errr.. X15 'space-plane' hitting the edge of space in altitude, doesnt do hardly anything for space programs... a spaceplane that actually got into orbit, say, would owe little to an expanded X15 program. Which isnt to say that the latter wouldnt be very sexy! But extended X15 flights might DELAY exploration of space if those dollars go to an essentially deadend project.
Michel, did you put nearly identical McMillan humiliations into two different timelines, or am I just really confused?
I think Dathi THorfinnsson may have been confused because Wilson's televised announcement during the Europa launch was featured in the 10th May post as well as the 13th May post.
A shame TSR-2 couldn't be saved, that's a very cool looking jet - but probably an extravagance for Britain in the '60s (or probably any point later!).
I am slightly worried about the Queen colluding with the French President to bawl out her own Prime Minister though. Looks like treason could be afoot! Perhaps a plot to restore a French monarchy, with Elizabeth promised the crown of a joint "Royaume-Uni de France, Grande-Bretagne et l'Irlande du Nord" (because as Concorde showed, there's no way the French would accept the English spelling)? The Daily Mail will hit the roof!
Gah! Right. Not only didnt recognize they were in the same tl, I got the PM wrong!!