1962: The year the world ended

pnyckqx

Banned
Yeah, so SergeantHeretic screwed up AGAIN.

Hardly a news flash.
No, you didn't. The bomb tested was a prototype built in 14 weeks. They'd have no more sent the exact same design than we would have sent the same exact design of the Trinity Test bomb.

The Soviets would have concerned themselves with ease of deployment after they were certain that it worked.

IF it ever existed, you can bet that the final form would not resemble the prototype in anything except function.
 
That leads to a question we had Sarge. The sites that got hit. Were you suggesting 50 MT each or a grand total of 50 MT?

BTW, as i said above, if the Soviets were going to all that trouble to one way a Czar bomb, they're not going to limit it to 50 MT. It's a suicide mission. They're not worried about the Bear making it back

So....Those things would be dialed up to the full 100 MT that they were designed for.

That changes the fallout figures --they increase, the bomb that was fairly clean @ 50 MT is not so clean at 100 MT--, not to mention the shock damage.

The government was still pretty safe in White Sulfur Springs WV, but the damage is going to be extensive.
It was 50 MT grand total not 50 MT each let's just be clear on that.
 
O.K., this is a refesher and a correction for Joanne's version of the October war, AKA WWIII.

pnyckqx,

The SOviets used no Tsar Bombs, just the standard deliverable by bomber payload and the missles launched from cuba.

The following cities were hit by a grand total of fifty megatons worth of soviet bombs and warheads.

Jacksonville Florida
Tallahasse, Florida,
Tupelo Missisipi
Baltomore Maryland.
New York city, New York.
Los Angeles California.

The following Bases were hit by Soviet SLBMs.

Patrick AFB

Andrews AFB

Fort Drum, New York

Seatac Air

Whiteman AFB.

No other targets were hit. While those cities were being hit the Strategic Air COmmand went deep into center field and effectivly cause the Soviet Union to cease to exist. The U.S> Navy effectivly obliterated the Soviet Navy taking 1/3rd casualties.

Chem attacks occured on the towns of Aurora Illinois, Flint Michigan, and Yazoo city Mississipi.

Now, what is the ballpark figure for AMerican recovery.
 

pnyckqx

Banned
pnyckqx,

The SOviets used no Tsar Bombs, just the standard deliverable by bomber payload and the missles launched from cuba.
Ok, except for NYC LA and Baltimore, this is not bad at all...except for the people under the weapons when they went off.

Some are worse than others, and some look as if they were the victims of bad Soviet targeting.



The following cities were hit by fifty megaton soviet bombs and warheads.

Jacksonville Florida
Tallahasse, Florida,
Tupelo Missisipi
Baltomore Maryland.
New York city, New York.
Los Angeles California.
Jacksonville, FL --Jacksonville NAS is gone, which was no doubt the purpose of the bomb. That takes out a lot of Naval Aviation and some Marine Corps squadrons. The Carrier battle groups are going to be short on planes and spare parts for a while.

Tallahasse, FL --Not much there. In the 1960's it was a sleepy little college town, even though it is the Capitol of Florida. It appears as if this was a miss at an attempt to target Eglin AFB

Recovery consists of forming a new State Government, and moving the capitol to Orlando like was in the works at the time.

Tupelo, MS --There's nothing of note there, aside from being the birthplace of Elvis Presley who is probably at this time about to report for Involuntary Recall to active duty. Looks as if it's another miss, but i wouldn't hazzard to guess what was being targeted. It's really too far off to be an attack on Biloxi or Mobile. Perhaps an attack intended for Oak Ridge TN?

Baltimore, MD. --i'd assume that Washington DC was targeted, but may be wrong about that. This is gonna hurt. Lots of people and a good port. Aside from that, Aberdeen Proving Grounds got trashed. We have at this time chemical warfare stocks in storage there. But unless it's a real big weapon, i doubt that there was any contamination from chemical units being damaged.

Years before the port is operational again. The pace of the reconstruction effort depends on how long it takes radiation to decline to relatively safe levels.

New York City --Bad news. Financial capital, lots of corporate offices, and millions of people. Records that cannot be replaced. Of course the good news is that the 1962 NY Mets are put out of their misery.

The proposed recovery would be decades with the US in financial chaos for a good deal of that time.



Los Angeles --Bad again, but not as bad as NYC. Los Angeles is spread out in terms of area. It will be difficult to get everything, even with a city buster bomb.

Perhaps 10 years to rebuild depending on ambient radiation levels.




The following Bases were hit by Soviet SLBMs.

Patrick AFB

Andrews AFB

Fort Drum, New York

Seatac Air

Whiteman AFB.
Patrick AFB --Looks as if the space program is going to be set back for a while. Cape Canaveral is pretty close to that location. Depending on the size of the weapon used, it may have been destroyed.

Not a big deal really, we could easily move the space program to Edwards AFB or some other suitable location.

Andrews AFB --Looks as if their missile came a bit short of Washington DC proper. Unless the Soviets coordinated their strikes, essential government persons are already gone, an all that really got blown up are some interceptor wings. Damage to DC and recovery depends on the size of the bomb, and radiation levels.

Ft. Drum, NY --The future troopers of the 10th Mountain Division are going to kiss your...what ever you want them to kiss, if anything. Ft. Drum is proof positive that Hell is cold. There really is nothing there in 1962. The Soviets may have succeeded in blowing some NY National Guard units, but nothing much else.

They're also, depending on prevailing winds, going to really piss off the Canadians.

Recovery? Why bother, it's probably an improvement.;)

Seattle/Tacoma Airport --Civilian target. Some people and planes get blown up, along with Seattle and Tacoma depending on the size of the missile.

Somebody really screwed up on that one. The target i'd have gone for would have been Travis AFB


No other targets were hit. While those cities were being hit the Strategic Air COmmand went deep into center field and effectivly cause the Soviet Union to cease to exist. The U.S> Navy effectivly obliterated the Soviet Navy taking 1/3rd casualties.

Chem attacks occured on the towns of Aurora Illinois, Flint Michigan, and Yazoo city Missouri.
Khrushchev must have had a real bad day to go and do this. Not as bad as his day became mind you, but still...

Aurora, IL is the key here. In the 1960's it's a major rail transportation hub. Depending on weather conditions and the type of agent used, the risk is that minimal damage will cause contaminated railroad cars and equipment to spread casualties over a wide area. i would think that the nature of the attack would soon be apparent to the authorities when they saw the first casualties.

[rant] Some of my more 'macho' brethern have talked down chemical attacks. Some of their observations are spot on. Others...well, you don't see them volunteering to go into the breach Know why? Because that shit will kill you, and it won't be a pretty death! Even if you don't get a lethal dose, the damage is permanent and severe.[/rant]

Fortunately we did know how to decontaminate an area if we knew what agents were used. That should become apparent from the casualties.

Figure about a month at the outside to de contaminate the areas. Again, this depends on the C & C and resources that the government has available.

Flint Michigan is going to put a big dent into auto manufacturing and related military applications, but again, decontamination is a known science.

Yazoo City? Nobody will miss it.


Now, what is the ballpark figure for AMerican recovery.
Not a lot of Military/Department of Defense facilities got hit. For a while, the US is understandably going to be under Martial Law.

It's not something that this committed Libertarian likes to think of, but it does have the benefit of being efficient, and these are not too arguably, extraordinary circumstances.

Using the reconstruction of western Europe as our example, and compensating for the nature of the weapons used, the US should be fully on the road to recovery in 10 years.

The biggest blow is the shambles that our financial system is put into by the obliteration of Wall Street and all of the corporations based in NYC.

i'd assume that Cuba will be converted to a parking lot for all the Florida Snowbirds, with the 2nd Marines, 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions going in to paint the lines when it cools down.

i'd also assume that the Chinese are going to thank us for access to the treasure house of resources that was once known as Soviet Siberia, assuming that Khruschev didn't lob a few nukes at them.

i honestly don't know if we'd retaliate for the chemical strikes. Against who? Who'd be left to absorb the 'abject-lesson-as-to-why-one-should-not-do-things-like-that'?
 
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i'd also assume that the Chinese are going to thank us for access to the treasure house of resources that was once known as Soviet Siberia, assuming that Khruschev didn't lob a few nukes at them.

There's a pretty good chance SAC retaliation would hit China as well. I'm not sure if the SIOP even included a China-exclusion option at this point.
 

pnyckqx

Banned
There's a pretty good chance SAC retaliation would hit China as well. I'm not sure if the SIOP even included a China-exclusion option at this point.
The Chinese will not 'officially' be a nuclear power for another two years.

i suppose our response in SIOP would depend upon what if anything our intelligence organs knew about a Chinese Nuclear program.

However, the Soviets DID know that China was working on a bomb. They also do not have a good historical relationship with the Chinese.

If the Chinese take a hit, it's probably going to be from the Soviets as a measure to protect their flanks while dealing with the US.
 
The Chinese will not 'officially' be a nuclear power for another two years.

i suppose our response in SIOP would depend upon what if anything our intelligence organs knew about a Chinese Nuclear program.

However, the Soviets DID know that China was working on a bomb. They also do not have a good historical relationship with the Chinese.

If the Chinese take a hit, it's probably going to be from the Soviets as a measure to protect their flanks while dealing with the US.

Okay, I checked, and by the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis, SIOP-63 was in effect which at least gave the option of not hitting China. For SIOP-62, striking China was automatic.
 
O.K., so we have ballpark figure of ten years for a basic recovery, the question is, will the United States ever be a superpower or even a world power ever again?

We didn't hit china and even sent then a "Gentlman's agreeement message exhemting them from our wrath at the SOviet Union.

We turned CUba into a fucking parking lot, the same with most of the western half of the SOviet Union. Mr. Khruschev KNEW how bad this would be for them and knew he should not have done it, but his genenrals didn't listen and believed i nthe "Myth of another great patriotic war".

(Mr Khruschev, please don't make us angry, you wouldn't like us when we're angry.)

The top end yield was five megatons that hit NYC and Baltimore, the rest were 1.5'ers.

The chemical attacks were mostly anthrax and a mixed bag of smallpox and other yardbird microbes.

The early hits on the U.S.S.R. by the S.A.C. decapitated their command and control and obilterated what was left of their bomber commands and strategic missile forces.

Russian will now be spoken by two sorts of people, Scholars and bushmen.

The U.S> got beat up, and bruised, but she still has most of her arable land, infrastructure and military.

We are battered, but we are still here, and we have a working civil government with a consensus and full confidence from the military.

WE ARE STILL HERE!
 
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pnyckqx

Banned
O.K., so we have ballpark figure of ten years for a basic recovery, the question is, will the United States ever be a superpower or even a world power ever again?
Depending on what happened in Europe, the US is still the toughest kid on the block, even with blood dripping out of it's nose...you should SEE the other guy!

The real question is damage done to our financial institutions. Reconstructing what records can be recovered, and the entire leadership of various corporations is going to take some time.

No on line records. Documents were preserved on Microfilm or hardcopy.

That doesn't necessarily mean anything in the grand scheme of things. In the time after the Bubonic Plague had ravaged Europe from 1347 on, the life for the survivors got better. Someone had to work abandoned farms and estates. It lead to an acceleration in what we today call the Rennaissance.

We didn't hit china and even sent then a "Gentlman's agreeement message exhemting them from our wrath at the SOviet Union.
NO, but i expect that the Soviets might have. China was at this time becoming somewhat of a nusiance to them. As a side benefit, i look for them to cool their heels when they see what is left of 7th Fleet protecting Taiwan --The Republic of China, the recognised Chinese government in 1962.

The Chinese are also likely going to tell Kim Il Sung to settle the hell down, and consider the abject lesson of his former Soviet Allies. That's assuming that he didn't send his army south against a MUCH stronger than it was in 1950 ROK Army that's waiting on him to do just that. The presence of US troops would be a much stronger deterrent because of the recent education given to the world. Besides, those boys in 2nd Infantry Division (at the time, flagged as the 1st Cavalry Division) and 7th Infantry Division, and a lot of Zoomies are really pissed off and ready for a fight at the moment.

We turned CUba into a fucking parking lot, the same with most of the western half of the SOviet Union. Mr. Khruschev KNEW how bad this would be for them and knew he should not have done it, but his genenrals didn't listen and believed i nthe "Myth of another great patriotic war".

(Mr Khruschev, please don't make us angry, you wouldn't like us when we're angry.)

The top end yield was five megatons that hit NYC and Baltimore, the rest were 1.5'ers.

The chemical attacks were mostly anthrax and a mixed bag of smallpox and other yardbird microbes.

The early hits on the U.S.S.R. by the S.A.C. decapitated their command and control and obilterated what was left of their bomber commands and strategic missile forces.

Russian will now be spoken by two sorts of people, Scholars and bushmen.

The U.S> got beat up, and bruised, but she still has most of her arable land, infrastructure and military.

We are battered, but we are still here, and we have a working civil government with a consensus and full confidence from the military.

WE ARE STILL HERE!
We're here, but under martial law for the forseeable immediate future. Whether or not there is a 1964 election? 6-5 and pick em.

i would imagine that the Kennedy will have some creative ideas on how to deal with a chaotic corporate situation. Some of the conspiracy theorists OTL had suggested that one of the reasons he was assassinated was because of issuing US Treasury Notes (as opposed to Federal Reserve Notes). That will likely to continue, since the FED is probably blown to hell and gone. i'd expect Eisenhower and Bradley, and any other surviving five star flag officers to be recalled to service, there's a lot of work to do in CONUS, and the military has the assets to do it. Besides, those guys, along with MacArthur are familiar with the difficulties of broken or damaged countries due to occupation of Europe and Japan after WWII --MacArthur lived in the Waldorf in NY during this time, and unless Kennedy evacuated him (Possible, they were close), he's now part of the fallout that's raining down on the glassed over rat infested rubble of what was NYC.

The chemical strike are not a big deal. In the 1960's almost every school child was vaccinated against smallpox, so that is ineffective.

We've been dealing with anthrax for a long time naturally occurring, it's not a mystery to us.

BTW Sarge, that would be a BIO attack. Chemical attack would be something like Nerve agents, blister agents, choking agents, etc.

The government would be controlling the media at this time. Kennedy doesn't need the citizens finding out about the bio attacks, and demanding the head of an already headless corpse.

Ever since their inception, the Soviet Union had regional and ethnic difficulties that they often had to suppress with an iron fist. i'd expect the surviving fragments would pull apart into regional governments based along ethnic lines. A much more chaotic version of what exists today.
 
Depending on what happened in Europe, the US is still the toughest kid on the block, even with blood dripping out of it's nose...you should SEE the other guy!

The real question is damage done to our financial institutions. Reconstructing what records can be recovered, and the entire leadership of various corporations is going to take some time.

No on line records. Documents were preserved on Microfilm or hardcopy.

That doesn't necessarily mean anything in the grand scheme of things. In the time after the Bubonic Plague had ravaged Europe from 1347 on, the life for the survivors got better. Someone had to work abandoned farms and estates. It lead to an acceleration in what we today call the Rennaissance.

NO, but i expect that the Soviets might have. China was at this time becoming somewhat of a nusiance to them. As a side benefit, i look for them to cool their heels when they see what is left of 7th Fleet protecting Taiwan --The Republic of China, the recognised Chinese government in 1962.

The Chinese are also likely going to tell Kim Il Sung to settle the hell down, and consider the abject lesson of his former Soviet Allies. That's assuming that he didn't send his army south against a MUCH stronger than it was in 1950 ROK Army that's waiting on him to do just that. The presence of US troops would be a much stronger deterrent because of the recent education given to the world. Besides, those boys in 2nd Infantry Division (at the time, flagged as the 1st Cavalry Division) and 7th Infantry Division, and a lot of Zoomies are really pissed off and ready for a fight at the moment.

We're here, but under martial law for the forseeable immediate future. Whether or not there is a 1964 election? 6-5 and pick em.

i would imagine that the Kennedy will have some creative ideas on how to deal with a chaotic corporate situation. Some of the conspiracy theorists OTL had suggested that one of the reasons he was assassinated was because of issuing US Treasury Notes (as opposed to Federal Reserve Notes). That will likely to continue, since the FED is probably blown to hell and gone. i'd expect Eisenhower and Bradley, and any other surviving five star flag officers to be recalled to service, there's a lot of work to do in CONUS, and the military has the assets to do it. Besides, those guys, along with MacArthur are familiar with the difficulties of broken or damaged countries due to occupation of Europe and Japan after WWII --MacArthur lived in the Waldorf in NY during this time, and unless Kennedy evacuated him (Possible, they were close), he's now part of the fallout that's raining down on the glassed over rat infested rubble of what was NYC.

The chemical strike are not a big deal. In the 1960's almost every school child was vaccinated against smallpox, so that is ineffective.

We've been dealing with anthrax for a long time naturally occurring, it's not a mystery to us.

BTW Sarge, that would be a BIO attack. Chemical attack would be something like Nerve agents, blister agents, choking agents, etc.

The government would be controlling the media at this time. Kennedy doesn't need the citizens finding out about the bio attacks, and demanding the head of an already headless corpse.

Ever since their inception, the Soviet Union had regional and ethnic difficulties that they often had to suppress with an iron fist. i'd expect the surviving fragments would pull apart into regional governments based along ethnic lines. A much more chaotic version of what exists today.

I stand corrected, then they were BIO attacks, thank you for setting me straight.

The soonest election is going to be in 1968 and depending on how much of an asshole a resurgent/recalcitrant south is prepared to be, possibly not until 1972.

But we'll make it, we'll be O.K.

I forsee the mantra of the nation for many years to be,

"Through the mushroom's red glare"

ANd "Stuff's gettin' better. Stuff's gettin' better all the time"

"The Kaiser couldn't whup us,

"Hitler and Tojo couldn't whup us

The Russkies couldn't Whup us!

"GOD BLESS AMERICA!"
 

pnyckqx

Banned
I stand corrected, then they were BIO attacks, thank you for setting me straight.

The soonest election is going to be in 1968 and depending on how much of an asshole a resurgent/recalcitrant south is prepared to be, possibly not until 1972.

But we'll make it, we'll be O.K.

I forsee the mantra of the nation for many years to be,

"Through the mushroom's red glare"

ANd "Stuff's gettin' better. Stuff's gettin' better all the time"

"The Kaiser couldn't whup us,

"Hitler and Tojo couldn't whup us

The Russkies couldn't Whup us!

"GOD BLESS AMERICA!"
Close. You got mail
 
pnyckqux,

Once the missles stop flying and the fallout begins to settle the survivors of the three day war will come out of their shelters, if they had one or made it to one.

AMericans will look around and take stock and realize that now things wil lbe different. Belts are going to get tighter, laws are going to get stricter and the penalty for many offences will be death non-negotiable and carried out by a national guard trooper with an M-1 Grand rifle.

But they still have a single federal Government issuing comprehensible, consistent orders, and that is going to make one hell of a difference.
 
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