1946: Build your own airforce

[tallwingedgoat]

What if you're the ruler of a nation with plenty of money and looking to build a world class airforce after WWII. There are plenty of surplus warplanes of all types going into the scrap heap that could be had for a song. In fact Sweden managed to assemble the 4th largest airforce by 1950.

The key is to chose planes that will give not only high performance but remain useful for as long as possible. Besides fighters, attack aircraft and bombers, you'll also need trainers, transports of all sizes, sea planes, and maritime patrol aircraft. Assume you have good relations with everyone. So what would be your choices?

 

[Geekhis Khan]

Assuming I'm a smaller nation and not wealthy or able to stock up on jets...

Fighters: Hard to go wrong with the Mustang. There will be butteloads of them available surplus, they've got great range, maneuverability, and firepower, are very good at a variety of roles, and with Merlins still in production you could assure your logistics.

Bombers: Lancs for many of the same reasons. Or you could get Libs by the hundreds for pennies on the dollar.

Attack: is Stalin selling surplus Sturmoviks? (Ah, alliteration, already.) If not, Hellooooo Mitchels or Mossies! Fill in the Medium Bomber slot while you''re at it. Hell, go with the Mossies and keep your engine logistics simple!

Seaplane/Patrol: Catalinas: simple, effective, rugged, optionally amphibious and available by the lot. Likely cheaper to maintain than Sunderlands, but I'd love me some Big Birds. Of course for a simple seaplane just about any simple floatplane should do.

Transport: Goonie Birds (ok, "Sky Trains"). There's a reason you can STILL find these things flying commercially.


In general I'd try to balance an all-around multi-task force with few extraneous supply/logistics issues. Hence I'd go with Mustangs, Lancs, and Mossies as a way to gain maximum functionality and only need logistics for a single basic engine type.

 

[Spitfiremk1]

Assuming that I am a fictional western European Nation, that was occupied by the Germans in WWII, with my Aircraft Industry overun and a medium sized overseas Empire...

Fighters: Lets say that During the war, my coutry had a small number of squadrons serving with the RAF (ie Free French Airforces), say one or two of them operated Spitfires, and so after the war, a number of Spitfire IXs are transfered to start as the basis for my new airforce, but in the slightly longer run, i would probably start going for surplus Mustangs and Thunderbolts.

Light to Medium Bombers: Mosquitos would defantly be high on my priority list, maybe Mitchalls. Lets say the US Navy has some spare Fighters/Divebombers (Hellcats/SB2C Helldivers ETC) to Quell any unrest in my newly riencorperated colonys.

Seaplane/Patrol: Defantly Catalinas.

Transport: Skytrains.

Trainers: Teaxans probably (Doubleing up as light bomber/attack aircraft for colonial policing)

Anything Else: Perhaps to Restart my countrys aircraft industry, captured German machines could be utalised/reversed enginered for the time being. I would also be porbably be beggining to look at jet technology aswell, Meteors/Vampires or possibly Thunderjets are all attractive.

 

[CalBear]

Are we talking just aircraft that are being off loaded or anything in the bull ring?

Assuming we are talking surplus only

Fighters/Fighter Bombers: Meteor (these would be the original version that was being replaced in 1946) P-80A, P-51, F4U

Attack/dive bomber: Il-2, TBF, SB2C, FR-1, F7F

Medium Bomber: Mosquito, B-26

Heavy Bomber: B-32, Lancaster

Seaplane/flying boat: Shortland Short, PBY

Cargo Plane: C-46, C-47

Trainer: T-6

If we are talking current aircraft as well, add the Meteor F.4, P-80C, B-29, C-54

 

[The Red]

Id try and grab as many German scientists as possible and reverse produce the Me 262 as well as the B-29 if I could.

 

[NHBL]

Corsairs and a base for them...

An airforce isn't just the planes...I'd be after a couple of Essex class carriers, their base defences (Fletcher class destroyers) and some planes to put on them...Corsairs seem like a good choice for the fighters.

For some land based jobs, the Fieseler Fi 156 Storch seems a good choice--and it stayed in production post-war.

 

[Onyx]

*Steals all of the German Scientists from The Red and yells at them*
I WANT A GOD DAMN KOMET!!!!!!!!!!

Anyways, I would've have SBD Avengers, Il-2, other than that, Im not sure, I might come back to another list. But I would totally forced my scientists to make the Komet, or the Super-Secret-Fast-Jet-Nuke when I rename it .

 

[Landshark]

Fighters: De Haviland Vampire, De Haviland Hornet, Hawker Tempest II, Hawker Fury, North American Mustang, Republic Thunderbolt, Vought Corsair, Grumman Bearcat.

Obviously using all these types wouldn't make sense, it'd add unnessecary work to the maintainence burden, but chosing between the single engined types is hard.

Attack/Bombers: Bristol Beaufighter, Grumman Tigercat, Douglas Skyraider, Illyushin Il-10.

Medium Bomber: De Haviland Mosquito, Douglas Invader, Petlyakov Pe-2, Tupolev Tu-2.

Maritime Patrol: Consolidated Catalina, Consolidated Privateer.

Transport: Douglas Dakota, Douglas Skymaster, Lockheed Constellation.

Trainer: North American Harvard.

 

[Markus]

Fighter: P-51 for the reasons already mentioned and she is a lot cheaper than the P-47(that´s one of the reasons why I killed the Jug in my TL) and the F4U.

Attack: also F4U, A-26 Invader or if she is not available the A-20 or the Bristol Beaufighter. But I would prefer to buy from one country because of standardisation.

Bombers: B-25 and the above mentioned Invader

Transport: C-46 and 47

No heavy bombers for me. They are too expensive and will soone be obsolte, although some Liberators for ASW would be ok, but PBYs are also fine.

 

[Polish Eagle]

If I were in charge of a small Eastern European nation, I'd not even bother with specialized sea planes. The largest bodies of water around a small nation can easily be patrolled by land based attack aircraft. A B-25 or a Sturmovik can easily bomb destroyers and subs, assuming they find them.

For Fighters: Mustangs at first, upgrading to P-80s when the P-51s are no longer sufficient.

For medium bombers: B-25 mitchell, or buying the various B-17s no longer in use with the advent of the B-29.

For Attack: Lots and Lots of Sturmoviks.

Trainer: Texan, which can also double as a light attack aircraft until radar-based anti-air evolves.

Short Recon: Fieseler Storch, then buying the Grasshopper planes from America (Piper L-4)

Transport: C-47

 

[CalBear]

Fighter: P-51 for the reasons already mentioned and she is a lot cheaper than the P-47(that´s one of the reasons why I killed the Jug in my TL) and the F4U.

Attack: also F4U, A-26 Invader or if she is not available the A-20 or the Bristol Beaufighter. But I would prefer to buy from one country because of standardisation.

Bombers: B-25 and the above mentioned Invader

Transport: C-46 and 47

No heavy bombers for me. They are too expensive and will soone be obsolte, although some Liberators for ASW would be ok, but PBYs are also fine.

Hey, you want standardization try this:

Fighter/Fighter Bomber: F4U, F8F, P-47
Attack: A-26, F7F
Medium Bomber: B-26
Patrol Bomber: PV-2
Torpedo: TBY, F7F
Nightfighter: F6F, F7F, P-61
Cargo: C-46, C-82, C-123
Transport: DC-6/C-118
ASW: AF Guardian
Helicopter: CH-37 (okay, it is a 1953 design...)


This will REALLY make your logistical officers happy since they all use the R-2800 engine. They all mount the .50 cal Browning and/or the HS.404 20mm, and can carrry the same bombs, rockets and torpedoes with out any work on the mounting hardware.

 

[NHBL]

Logistics...

Hey, you want standardization try this:

Fighter/Fighter Bomber: F4U, F8F, P-47
Attack: A-26, F7F
Medium Bomber: B-26
Patrol Bomber: PV-2
Torpedo: TBY, F7F
Nightfighter: F6F, F7F, P-61
Cargo: C-46, C-82, C-123
Transport: DC-6/C-118
ASW: AF Guardian
Helicopter: CH-37 (okay, it is a 1953 design...)


This will REALLY make your logistical officers happy since they all use the R-2800 engine. They all mount the .50 cal Browning and/or the HS.404 20mm, and can carrry the same bombs, rockets and torpedoes with out any work on the mounting hardware.

Good thinking...always study and plan for logistics! If there's good reason to inflict a logistical challenge on yo9urself, then do it..but think first! The drawback of buying American is the SAEvs Metric problem--so buy ALL American or NO American, unless you've got good reason to accept two supply chins even for nuts and bolts!

 

[OAM47]

I used a 1950 deadline I hope you don't mind.

Fighter: (ME-262) While I'd love to use a P47, as the 47 in my name is for that, I'm reluctant to use a prop plane after WWII. I'd go for the ME-262. Several countries were able to get a hold of some, and I think Czechoslovokia actualy kept producing them.

CAS(Close Air Support): (A2U-1) (Varient of the F7U) Ground attack version of the F7U, an early jet built by the same company as the F4U. Historicaly it was not used much because it was not good at carrier manuvers (not a problem for me) and the the F8U came along, but a little after the deadline I think

Bomber: (B-29) Nuff said.

Cargo: (C-47) Ditto

 

[Melvin Loh]

For me, I 2nd every-1 else's choices- plus I;'d also be in favour of the following which haven't been mentioned yet:
Fighter- P38 Lightning, Tempest
Bomber- Lancaster
Transport- B24
Maritime- Martin Mariner, Sunderland, Dornier Do124

I'd like to pickup several RN/USN escort carriers too- for my fleet air arm, I'd elect the following:
F6F Hellcat, F4U Corsair, TBM Avenger, Firefly

 

[NHBL]

For me, I 2nd every-1 else's choices- plus I;'d also be in favour of the following which haven't been mentioned yet:
Fighter- P38 Lightning, Tempest
Bomber- Lancaster
Transport- B24
Maritime- Martin Mariner, Sunderland, Dornier Do124

I'd like to pickup several RN/USN escort carriers too- for my fleet air arm, I'd elect the following:
F6F Hellcat, F4U Corsair, TBM Avenger, Firefly

The escort carriers used Wildcats--I believe, but am not sure, because the Hellcats and Corsairs couldn't fly off of them.

 

[tallwingedgoat]

Hey, you want standardization try this:

Fighter/Fighter Bomber: F4U, F8F, P-47
Attack: A-26, F7F
Medium Bomber: B-26
Patrol Bomber: PV-2
Torpedo: TBY, F7F
Nightfighter: F6F, F7F, P-61
Cargo: C-46, C-82, C-123
Transport: DC-6/C-118
ASW: AF Guardian
Helicopter: CH-37 (okay, it is a 1953 design...)


This will REALLY make your logistical officers happy since they all use the R-2800 engine. They all mount the .50 cal Browning and/or the HS.404 20mm, and can carrry the same bombs, rockets and torpedoes with out any work on the mounting hardware.

I like that list. The F7F seem versatile enough to fill several roles. It could probably serve decades in the ground attack role like the A-1 Skyraider. Give it a turbo-prop upgrade later.

A number of you want both the C-47 and C-46. Seems to me the latter makes the former superfluous no?

 

[Jukra]

The key is to chose planes that will give not only high performance but remain useful for as long as possible. Besides fighters, attack aircraft and bombers, you'll also need trainers, transports of all sizes, sea planes, and maritime patrol aircraft. Assume you have good relations with everyone. So what would be your choices?

Much depend upon basing and environmental conditions, naturally, but if fairly new aircraft are available I think P-82 would fill fighter, night fighter, attack aircraft, bomber and reconnaissance spots fairly well for quite a long time. It also had very good range. If the aircraft need to be available as surplus then, depending upon range and other conditions required, I'd go for A-26 / F4U combo.

For maritime patrol the obvious choice in 1946 would be P4Y Privateer and as good electronics as anyone would be willing to sell. It had good range and endurance and top of it could double as a heavy bomber if deemed necessary.

Although I'm a big fan of flying boats, the historic models available are really not that effective in maritime patrol role. For air-sea rescue use Catalina might be useful, though.

For transport C-54 might be the best choice available. If airborne capabilities are require a few hundred or thousands of gliders might be useful as F-82 or A-26 could double as glider towing aircraft.

 

[Melvin Loh]

also, I'd add the following:
Attack- SB2C Helldiver- the Royal Hellenic Air Force used em to great effect against Communist guerillas during the Greek CW 1949-52 or thereabouts; also the B25K Grizzly attack version with the 75mm cannon fitted

Bomber- DB7 Boston, Lincoln
Transport- Junkers Ju52 would be useful, too + as many Wacos & Horsas as poss

Patrol- Hudson,Ventura, Shackleton

Tilt-rotor- as many leftover Flettner KOLIBRIs as usual

also, what about liaison aricraft ? I'd get hold of the best from all sides- 01 Bird-Dogs, Lysanders

 

[Markus]

Hey, you want standardization try this:

Fighter/Fighter Bomber: F4U, F8F, P-47
Attack: A-26, F7F
Medium Bomber: B-26
Patrol Bomber: PV-2
Torpedo: TBY, F7F
Nightfighter: F6F, F7F, P-61
Cargo: C-46, C-82, C-123
Transport: DC-6/C-118
ASW: AF Guardian
Helicopter: CH-37 (okay, it is a 1953 design...)


This will REALLY make your logistical officers happy since they all use the R-2800 engine. They all mount the .50 cal Browning and/or the HS.404 20mm, and can carrry the same bombs, rockets and torpedoes with out any work on the mounting hardware.

Interesting take, but I´ll not buy the F8F. She is brand new and thus less cheap. The "new" cargo planes are definitely something I spend real money on. The large back door allows them to be loaded/unloaded faster and they can carry larger items.

The P-47 or Mustang question is hard. The Jug lacks a Mustangs´s range. Except for the -N but I suspect the Americans want to keep those. Ok, I admit I might not need the extra 100 miles combat radius and the Jug is a much better fighter-bomber. So surplus Jugs it is.
Also to go is the Guardian. It fulfils the same role as the PV-2, so unless one has carriers one does not need it. Same goes for the TBY, its only useful on CV otherwise I prefer the tougher twin engine planes.
And why buy A-26 and B-26? The former seems as good or better in any regard.
Last but not least I don´t think I need any of those nightfighters. If a Hellcat can be turned into one, the same could be done with a P-47 or F4U.


edit:

For me, I 2nd every-1 else's choices- plus I;'d also be in favour of the following which haven't been mentioned yet:
Fighter- P38 Lightning, Tempest
Bomber- Lancaster
Transport- B24
Maritime- Martin Mariner, Sunderland, Dornier Do124

I'd like to pickup several RN/USN escort carriers too- for my fleet air arm, I'd elect the following:
F6F Hellcat, F4U Corsair, TBM Avenger, Firefly

The P-38 was finally perfected in mid-44, but she was expensive, not easy to maintain and no good fighter bomber. Her combat radius was a bit larger than that of a late P-47D(670 vs. 600 miles). So in case you need range and got the money, buy the P-47N(1.000miles).

 

[Bearcat]

My list

Fighters: A mix of F8F Bearcats (if you can get them) and P-51Ds. Bearcats are better interceptors but Mustangs have the range advantage.

Fighter-bombers: F4U Corsairs

Attack: SBDs. Replace in 10-15 years with surplus AD Skyraiders.

Strike / Light bombers: B-25 Mitchells.

Heavy Bombers: B-24 Liberators.