1945: iron Curtain on the Oder: Do the allies divide up Germany?

RousseauX

Donor
Let's say the Germans do a bit better on the eastern front and as a result at postadam the east/west line is drawn on the Oder instead of in the middle of Germany (basically otl east german borders with poland), the Soviets gets an occupation zone in Berlin.

Do the allies go ahead with plans to divide up Germany in this case? They had multiple plans for doing so which one do they use if they partition Germany like otl.
 

Deleted member 97083

The WAllies probably want to keep the extensive coal and iron deposits of Silesia.
 
Austria probably goes explicitly Red rather than neutral as a consequence. Either that or they get a puppet state of North Norway.
 
It doesn't really matter in the long run. The Western Allies might set a partition up as a temporary measure, based on US, British, French occupation zones, and caused by fears of a renewed german threat. But after a relatively short while, they'll give up enforcing that; and the Germans obviously want to be together once again. With no authoritarian external power enforcing a continuation of the partition, by the early 1960s at the latest Germany is one again: a plebiscite will be held and the outcome is clear.
 
It would depend on what was decided at the earlier meetings

At Yalta for example Poland was already occupied by Russia and the Red Army was only some 64 KMs from Berlin

So if the Wallies have surged ahead somehow and are occupying Germany in the summer of 44 then this changes the agreements.

Also for this to work then Russia still needs to be Bogged down in Russia

I can see Poland being made 'Independent and Stronger' rather than just a Soviet Client - with possibly some boarder changes and popualtion movement

Mean while I can see Czechoslovakia (Or Czech and Slovakia) and Austria becoming 'Western' nations

Germany I can see being initially chopped up as per Churchills plan with a British, US and French Zone - with a Federal German State eventually being setup

Berlin as formerly mentioned would be divied into a British, French, US and Russian quarters

I wonder what the Berlin Airlift anaolgy would be in this T|L?
 
Creation of the west German republic was the result of cold war tensions emerging post 1945. Previously French leaders & voters were still keeping the idea of breaking up Germany afloat. The idea had been still in circulation in the US & Britain pre 1945. If there are strong Polish and Cezch states, with non Communist governments then it is quite possible the 'break up Germany' idea remains on the table. Seperating Prussia from the rest of it fit the political ideas of some Allied leaders. A Bavarian state might also be proposed. In any case given the anti German sentiment of the 1940s & absence of a Communist bogeyman as we knew it then Germany is unlikely to look like it does today, or in 1955.
 

RousseauX

Donor
Creation of the west German republic was the result of cold war tensions emerging post 1945. Previously French leaders & voters were still keeping the idea of breaking up Germany afloat. The idea had been still in circulation in the US & Britain pre 1945. If there are strong Polish and Cezch states, with non Communist governments then it is quite possible the 'break up Germany' idea remains on the table. Seperating Prussia from the rest of it fit the political ideas of some Allied leaders. A Bavarian state might also be proposed. In any case given the anti German sentiment of the 1940s & absence of a Communist bogeyman as we knew it then Germany is unlikely to look like it does today, or in 1955.
Poland is still Communist at least, as is Hungary Bulgaria etc
 
In any case given the anti German sentiment of the 1940s & absence of a Communist bogeyman as we knew it then Germany is unlikely to look like it does today, or in 1955.

It is unlikely that in 1945 it looks like today. But the Allies can't have a Germany that is at the same time free+democratic and divided in statelets. They can have one but not both. My bet is they go free+democratic, which means that if they have divided it up, it gets united again pretty soon.
 

Deleted member 1487

Let's say the Germans do a bit better on the eastern front and as a result at postadam the east/west line is drawn on the Oder instead of in the middle of Germany (basically otl east german borders with poland), the Soviets gets an occupation zone in Berlin.

Do the allies go ahead with plans to divide up Germany in this case? They had multiple plans for doing so which one do they use if they partition Germany like otl.
Oder line?
Oder-Neisse_line_between_Germany_and_Poland.jpg


That would give Germany substantially more land than IOTL and limit population transfers, while guaranteeing that the Czechs remained in the western sphere. Austria then I'm assuming isn't neutral, but an active part of the post-war western sphere? Germany remains a series of occupation zones longer, but still is a united market/administrative zone, which is a lot easier without having to really work with the Soviets.

Michele is right, even if Germany is divided it would coalesce again even without German desire for that (though that would exist) because the German market/economy was simply too important to break into pieces and eastern farming was critical to western supplies of food. As it was the plans for dismantling German industry and limiting their economy had to be abandoned within 2 years because of how much it hurt British, French, and the rest of non-communist Europe's recovery.

Speaking of which...where does the Iron Curtain actual fall here? It seems like the Czech Republic at least (Czechoslovakia sans Slovakia) would fall in the western zone.
 
Oder line?


That would give Germany substantially more land than IOTL and limit population transfers, ...

I guess the OP simply means the present-day border with Poland in general.

Naturally, if we start discussing this, the key would be how less well the Soviets have fared; because a German-Polish border farther East than OTL would be possible... if Poland isn't the "country on skates". I.e., if the Polish-Soviet border also is farther East.
 

Deleted member 1487

I guess the OP simply means the present-day border with Poland in general.

Naturally, if we start discussing this, the key would be how less well the Soviets have fared; because a German-Polish border farther East than OTL would be possible... if Poland isn't the "country on skates". I.e., if the Polish-Soviet border also is farther East.
Its also possible that Poland gets screwed on borders compared to OTL.
 
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