1940: Luftwaffe raid on New York

I agree with Grimm Reaper, there would be a PH effect, but IMO it’s ASB of S....n dimensions for several reasons.

In OTL Germany never had the capability to attack CONUS and still FDR and the military were totally paranoid, wasting vast military resources to protect the USA from threat that obviously did not exist. Imagine what they would have done if Germany actually had some attack capability. The US defences would be reinforced to a level that precludes any chance of success.

Second, the USA was not a major player in 1940 and there would have been much, much better ways for Germany to use the one and only CV.

edit: I don´t see a nuclear attack on Germany. If the USA enters the war a year early, it will end earlier than in OTL.
It took us 4 years to get the bomb from when we started. So figure the same thing, there is no way the war will end before 44. Therefore boom!
 

Markus

Banned
It took us 4 years to get the bomb from when we started. So figure the same thing, there is no way the war will end before 44. Therefore boom!

Not necessarily, and here is why.

If the US joins the war in 1940 the invasion of France might be undertaken before 1944 and if its not the invasion force will be larger. Than there were plenty of opportunities to shorten the war in OTL: No stop at Falaise = Market-Garden is a success = no Battle of the Bulge = war´s over by the end of 1944. The first nukes might be ready at the same time.
 

CalBear

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The biggest ASB of this entire thing is the Graf Zeppelin actually getting commissioned, much less be fully operational by 1940.

The ship was at least 18 months from completion in September of 1939, it had been launched but the interior of the vessel was incomplete, the thousands of connections needed to make the ship functional had not been started, and there wasn't ANY experience in carrier operations.

Figure the earliest date that the ship would be operational is spring of 1942. At that time it is going to have to come within 150 miles of the U.S. to make its attack, while remaining undetected in one of the busiest sea lane on Earth. It will then have a TOTAL of TEN defensive fighters and the same number of dive bombers, along with 18 biplane torpedo bombers (max speed 203 MPH) to attack the United States.

Traveling from Germany to the U.S. (assuming the RN and USN miss the sortie completely and the ship makes it to launch point) is a LONG trip to drown. Easier to do it in your tub at home.
 
The biggest ASB of this entire thing is the Graf Zeppelin actually getting commissioned, much less be fully operational by 1940.

The ship was at least 18 months from completion in September of 1939, it had been launched but the interior of the vessel was incomplete, the thousands of connections needed to make the ship functional had not been started, and there wasn't ANY experience in carrier operations.

Figure the earliest date that the ship would be operational is spring of 1942. At that time it is going to have to come within 150 miles of the U.S. to make its attack, while remaining undetected in one of the busiest sea lane on Earth. It will then have a TOTAL of TEN defensive fighters and the same number of dive bombers, along with 18 biplane torpedo bombers (max speed 203 MPH) to attack the United States.

Traveling from Germany to the U.S. (assuming the RN and USN miss the sortie completely and the ship makes it to launch point) is a LONG trip to drown. Easier to do it in your tub at home.

Oh but what a spectacular story it would be, imagine the ensuing hunt as the combined might of the USN and RN bear down on the Graf Zepplin, ending in spectacular fashion as it is blasted to smitherines somewhere in the north atlantic. It would make the story of the bismark look like a small footnote to the Battle of the Atlantic.

Of course the POD is not clearly explained, I remember reading an essay in which the author posits that Hitler enlisted in the Navy during WWI and as a result he concentrates on strengthening the KM rather than the Heer.
 
Nevermind the fact that even if this "attack" prevents FDR's election... who do you get? Wendell Wilkie, who supported FDR in arming and expanding the military. He wasn't an isolationalist.
 

CalBear

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I always wanted to know what the meaning of "Eddie would go!" is.

It refers to Eddie Aikau, a legendary Hawaiian life guard & surfer. He was the 1st life guard on the North Shore, where winter waves routinely reach 35' and the unwary can get into lethal trouble before they even realize its a possibility. He would go into surf that no one else would dare attempt to save a drowning victim. By doing so he saved hundreds of swimmers would never have gotten home otherwise.

He would also surf ANY wave, any break, any time.

He died when a replica of a traditional Polynesian canoe he was crewing as part of a research project capsized 20 miles off the Island of Molokai. Eddie volunteered to go for help on his board, even though the trip was nearly impossible.

He was never seen again.

The rest of the crew was eventually saved by the Coast Guard & Eddie became a legend.

"Eddie would go!" has become shorthand for courage in the face of danger and "go big or go home" ever since.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Aikau

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqx9ZRCz4TQ
 
If the US enters the war I don't think Germany would go to war with the Soviets as well. Hitler's used up most of his crazy and will need some time to resupply. More German aircraft over Britain and France, more German troops in Africa, more in Europe for when the Americans finally try a landing.

Japan is probably going to get away with a lot more, even if the US is paying attention to Asia, they're going to be more interested in keeping military strength up than policing another potential enemy. China is going to be enough to keep the Japanese military busy for the foreseeable future, unless they adopt a more practical policy (Breaking it into more manageable, self-governing countries).

The future of this world is really going to depend on the Soviets. If they head West against Germany as aggressors, it'll probably save Berlin from a bomb. There will be a lot more argument over future Soviet Spheres of Influence in Eastern Europe if this happens. If they go East against Japan, Japan is screwed and it might be enough for the US to intervene and try to negotiate a peace between the two to leave Japan a rump empire (or an Empire by Proxy).

If the USSR does nothing, Berlin is going to be nuked and Europe will eventually be liberated (yay democracy) at a huge price for the Americans. I wonder if we'd still break up Germany for a while.
 
So the Nazis send an incomplete ship on a one way suicide mission to attack a neutral super power. A day later, an RAF Coastal Command plane spots a foundering ship in the North Sea flying the KM flag. A destroyer/cruiser force is sent to intercept, picks up survivors and manages to tow the hulk back to port. The propoganda victory for the British is huge, especially once some of the grateful German crew reveal what their mission was.
 
Was there any source from which Hitler could have obtained an aircraft carrier- Vich France, Italy?

Were this a physical possibility and were Hitler crazy and stupid enough to do it (and Hitler was good at crazy and stupid) might not the target have the the White House in DC?
 
Was there any source from which Hitler could have obtained an aircraft carrier- Vich France, Italy?

All the French carriers remained in British hands and the Italians didn't have any.


Were this a physical possibility and were Hitler crazy and stupid enough to do it (and Hitler was good at crazy and stupid) might not the target have the the White House in DC?

The Graf would be destroyed along with its crew but yes.
 
Raiding the continental US-how to do it

Here's a couple of ways that an attack on the continental USA might be carried out, though with little effect besides propaganda, and at a high cost.

The Condor bomber could transport a significant bomb load on a one way mission, perhaps heading to a prearranged rendezvous with U-boats to rescue the crew. With a good hit, I wonder if the possibility of bringing down a skyscraper exists. Condors were a valuable aset--so much so that they stopped being used to attack shipping, and were relagated strictly to the recon role, so this COSTS!

Durring the second Happy Time, U-boats roamed at will, and I don't know why none of them ever did toss a few shells ashore. Even a few shells exploding in a minor city would be noticed for certain.

No effect militarily in either case.
 
Durring the second Happy Time, U-boats roamed at will, and I don't know why none of them ever did toss a few shells ashore. Even a few shells exploding in a minor city would be noticed for certain.

Because the US was paranoid about this eventuality and had adequate coastal defense to destroy any U-Boat that had a go as well as encouraging black outs on the coast,of course a small port might have worked.
 
America enters the war sooner and unless the GOP outdoes Roosevelt for intervention then Roosevelt gets his third term. Arguably Wilkie was marginally more por UK than Roosevelt but there would have been problems with continuity if he had been elected. If however Germany was stupid enough to attack New York, Congress would approve most measures aimed at Germany.

The Graf Zeppelin was however never completed and there would have been numerous problems with Goering over the provision of aircraft not to mention the unlikelihood of the Royal Navy failing to stop the Graf Zeppelin unless they wanted the attack to bring America into the war which would have meant prior knowledge. However they would be more concerned at it attacking convoys

Christopher Nicole's hidden history the Ship with no name has an attack in 1942 launched from the Peter Strasser but by that time America is in the war
 

Markus

Banned
Durring the second Happy Time, U-boats roamed at will, and I don't know why none of them ever did toss a few shells ashore. Even a few shells exploding in a minor city would be noticed for certain.

No effect militarily in either case.


The Japanese did that with zero damage. No, they did not target Hollywood but some oil refinery. The same was tried by german subs in the Caribean with the same results. Subs have too few and small guns to do real damage to targets on land.
 
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