1936; Italy invades Saudi Arabia

Why would Italy invade?

Saudi Arabia was poor - major oil sites mostly hadn't been found yet. There was nothing to be gained for Italy, economically or politically.

By contrast, Ethiopia, while also somewhat resource-poor, had tremendous symbolic/political value - avenging Adowa was a big deal.
 
Britain declares war to Italy. Britain kicks Italys sorry @$$!

That certainly ended that debate. Don't see how Italy would have the logistics for it, not when all those routes would be over the sea. Ethiopia had the advantage of already being surrounded (more or less), and nobody in the League of Nations cared about their plight. Besides, weren't the big oil deposits at the time being exploited in Iran/Persia. If so, who'd want to invade a big sand box?
 

Cook

Banned
Why would Italy invade?

Saudi Arabia was poor - major oil sites mostly hadn't been found yet. There was nothing to be gained for Italy, economically or politically.

By contrast, Ethiopia, while also somewhat resource-poor, had tremendous symbolic/political value - avenging Adowa was a big deal.

As he says, oil wasn’t discovered in Saud until 1938, prior to that the kingdom was ranked as one of the World’s poorest independent nations. Ironic that.

Abyssinia (Ethiopia) could also be considered within the Italian Sphere; the already controlled Eritrea and Italian Somaliland. Saudi Arabia would be considered to be within Britain’s sphere (by the British if not by anyone else and they were who counted), they either occupied outright or guaranteed the independence of every country around it.
 
Why would UK go to war to defend Saudi? it's a poor country with nothing in it, and Italy is at that point a potentially valuable ally against the Nazis which the British and French have been trying to buy off with various territorial concessions in Africa.

Mussolini can even make a semi-plausible claim that he's invading to protect Islam's holy places (one of his titles is Protector of Islam), and to abolish slavery in the Arabian Pennisula.

The war will also be shorter and easier than OTL Ethiopia, Saudi has less friends that Ethiopia, and Saudi's not in the League of Nations (unlike Ethiopia), so politically it's also easier for Italy.
 
When did Britain's protectorate over the region end? They had one for some time in the 30s, I believe...

Otherwise, the British were allies to the Al Saud family, so that's why they'd declare war on Italy, if for any reason.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Arabia was in the British sphere of interest. They would not allow another power to come playing in their back yard. In Ethiopia the Italians could use ethnic and feudal grievances against the emperor to quickly get local allies. Could they do that in Arabia? And what kind of interests would they have in Arabia anyways? They had been eying Ethiopia for a long time and often tried to get Britain and France to split the country with them.
 

Cook

Banned
When did Britain's protectorate over the region end? They had one for some time in the 30s, I believe...
Otherwise, the British were allies to the Al Saud family, so that's why they'd declare war on Italy, if for any reason.

No they didn’t but they did hold nearly every surrounding state as either a Mandated Territory; Iraq and Transjordan, as a Protectorate; Oman, Yemen, the Gulf Sheikdoms, Egypt or Colonies outright; Sudan and British Somaliland. They also controlled the Persian (Iranian) province of Khuzestan which was the most critical piece of all because that was where Britain’s (and most of the world’s outside of the United States’) oil came from. Britain is not going to tolerate any other power in the Persian Gulf.

The British wouldn’t actually have to go to war against Italy, the mere threat would be enough, and if they didn’t want to threaten Italy, the Suez Canal could have shipping delays and hold-ups, something they chose not to do during Italy’s invasion of Abyssinia (Ethiopia).
 

loughery111

Banned
Why would UK go to war to defend Saudi? it's a poor country with nothing in it, and Italy is at that point a potentially valuable ally against the Nazis which the British and French have been trying to buy off with various territorial concessions in Africa.

Because in 1936 there is exactly one reason to invade Arabia: as the beginning of a move to pincer the British out of Palestine and Transjordan and open Iraq up to invasion. It's a particularly STUPID way of doing so, but nonetheless that's the only possible reason to mount an invasion at all. Which means that the British will declare war, or failing that will simply close the Suez.
 
Mussolini can even make a semi-plausible claim that he's invading to protect Islam's holy places (one of his titles is Protector of Islam), and to abolish slavery in the Arabian Pennisula.

That's news to me...what did Fascist Italian dictator have anything to do with Islam?
 
Why would Italy invade?

Saudi Arabia was poor - major oil sites mostly hadn't been found yet. There was nothing to be gained for Italy, economically or politically.

By contrast, Ethiopia, while also somewhat resource-poor, had tremendous symbolic/political value - avenging Adowa was a big deal.

Not to mention Ethiopia was geographically closer to Italy than Saudi Arabia. Even today getting people and supplies from Italy to Saudi Arabia is a major challenge...back then it would have been a logistical nightmare.
 
Because in 1936 there is exactly one reason to invade Arabia: as the beginning of a move to pincer the British out of Palestine and Transjordan and open Iraq up to invasion. It's a particularly STUPID way of doing so, but nonetheless that's the only possible reason to mount an invasion at all. Which means that the British will declare war, or failing that will simply close the Suez.

loughery111

There's actually a simpler one which makes some sense and is even more likely to get Britain to declare war. If the Italians hold the western shore of Saudi and Erithria then they can threaten to block the Red Sea and hence traffic through the Suez Canal. Coupled with the fact that Italy has not the vaguest claim to Arabia that will make Britain very hostile to such a move.

Steve
 
That's news to me...what did Fascist Italian dictator have anything to do with Islam?

I checked, the title was bestowed in March 1937 during a visit to Italian Libya.

What did he have to do with Islam? Well he ruled a lot of muslims.

The Italian fascists also tend to back muslims against Christians in Ethiopia. Remember they used auxilaries from Italian Somalia, and wanted to undermine the underpinnings of the Christian Ethiopian state.
 

loughery111

Banned
loughery111

There's actually a simpler one which makes some sense and is even more likely to get Britain to declare war. If the Italians hold the western shore of Saudi and Erithria then they can threaten to block the Red Sea and hence traffic through the Suez Canal. Coupled with the fact that Italy has not the vaguest claim to Arabia that will make Britain very hostile to such a move.

Steve

This is a point; I guess I was thinking in terms of Iraq as the prize and not trying to cut the RN in half in the event of a war breaking out.
 

Cook

Banned
That's news to me...what did Fascist Italian dictator have anything to do with Islam?

Mussolini bankrolled Arab nationalists and Muslim brotherhoods throughout the Levant and British Mandates and Egypt prior to the war, stirring up trouble for Britain and France, and yes; styled himself as the protector of Islam and what’s even more amazing is that they lapped it up even though he was busy crushing Arab dissent in Libya.

He also provided funds for one of the Jewish Palestine terrorist groups, if I remember correctly the Irgun, but you’d have to check that.
 

Cook

Banned
If the Italians hold the western shore of Saudi and Erithria then they can threaten to block the Red Sea and hence traffic through the Suez Canal.

The British hold Suez. Even the possibility of a threat to British interests in the Red Sea and they close the canal to Italian traffic; the Italians suddenly find themselves cut off from their colonies in the Horn of Africa. Besides, the Italians already had ports in Eritrea and Somaliland; they gain nothing from a port on the other side of the Red Sea too.

When he was invading Ethiopia he was very careful in how it was presented to the world; it was very carefully done to not be a threat to France and Britain.
 
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