1930s Germany without the Soviet Union

kernals12

Banned
I've heard many claim that Hitler's rise was strongly enabled by the fear of communism resulting from the Russian revolution. If Russia doesn't go communist, what does German politics look like during the 1930s?
 
The Nazis don't take power.
The reason the Nazis were able to get support from the Middle and Upper classes was because of Soviet expansion fears.
 

Deleted member 1487

I've heard many claim that Hitler's rise was strongly enabled by the fear of communism resulting from the Russian revolution. If Russia doesn't go communist, what does German politics look like during the 1930s?
It dramatically changes a lot. Even the German communist party would be very different without the USSR. The Nazis would very likely not exist without the USSR and even the German communists would handle themselves differently and potentially not refuse to work with the left and center to foster 'accelerationism'. If Hitler does rise for whatever reason, the lack of threat of the USSR would mean he'd be public enemy #1 if he tried anything and have Russia to potentially worry about. Also there is the potential Germany could find a non-Communist Russia an ally post-war depending on whether the leadership goes fascist or not...or even just revisionist.
 
Could you be more specific? Who becomes chancellor?
I don't know who would have become Chancellor.
That depends on what party takes power.
Zentrum, SDP, DDP, and DVP are all options for Wiemar remaining a democracy.
DNVP is an option if we want Mussolini style fascists.
The KPD's chances are overrated in my opinion, especially in a world with no USSR.
 
As for Russia as an Ally, Germany had Russia as an ally helping it devlop aircraft and tanks from the late 20s until after Hitler took power and shifted those from secret to open projects (so they weren't being tested in the Ukraine). This was partially facilitated by both nations being Pariah states
 
Depending on when the POD is (ie whether the October Revolution never happens/fails or the Reds lose the Russian Civil War), might not the German Revolution at least in its OTL form be averted?
 
Depending on when the POD is (ie whether the October Revolution never happens/fails or the Reds lose the Russian Civil War), might not the German Revolution at least in its OTL form be averted?

German Revolution would likley not happened at all because it was an Impact of the Successful October Revolution and so Germany would remained a Monarchy then Nazis would never rose to Power.
 
With Whites winning Civil War Russo-French alliance continues, OTOH just when war is over (with White victory war will be longer and more devasting because the Reds held industrialised Central Russian heartland which need to be reconquered, thus heavy damaged, Russia could emerge snaller from war losing Transcaucasia) there is return to "Great Game" between Russia and UK in Central Asia. As result British-German relations would improve as Britain would see Germany with sane leadership as natural counterbalance to Russia and France. So we'd have Russo-French alliance (including Poland and Czechoslovakia) vs German-British alliance. In this situation Germans are unlikely to start next war because attack either to east or west means two-front war from the very start.
 
The context of this matters, do the bolsheviks take power and are the defeated after a long civil war?
If so communist parties will still exist and emulate themselves on bolsheviks

Do the bolsheviks never take power at all?

If so far left parties will be very different and probably a lot more fractured
 

NoMommsen

Donor
The Nazis don't take power.
...
Don't be so sure about that.

IMO would depend, if there would still be the italian fascism, as it was model, example and paragon for many "revolutionaries" of the interwar period.

I could still well see a fascistic, "völkisch" party exist in Germany.

However, as said, without Russia the germ,an socialists and communists would develop different, though IMO still "strong" enough to cause the revolutionary times of the early 20'ies.
Question would be, how they develop afterwards without the "shining paragon" of the SU.

It won't be the "Nazis" as we know them, but ... perhaps even worse with their antisemitism and they would still have the same potential to seize power with all the intermingling and meddling with the existing elites (esp. military and civil service), that already took place IOTL.
 
The Nazis don't take power.
The reason the Nazis were able to get support from the Middle and Upper classes was because of Soviet expansion fears.

What expansion did the Soviets do between the end of the Russian Civil War and Hitler's rise to power?
 
Without the horrible suppression of moderate socialists In Russia the revolution in Germany could be a deal more radicAl. Ebert and noske would fear Bolshevism less and might go through with more radical policies like socialisation/nationalisation of industry
 

kernals12

Banned
Depending on when the POD is (ie whether the October Revolution never happens/fails or the Reds lose the Russian Civil War), might not the German Revolution at least in its OTL form be averted?
Let's go with, the October revolution fails, Kerensky's government holds on until the constituent assembly is formed.
 

Deleted member 1487

What expansion did the Soviets do between the end of the Russian Civil War and Hitler's rise to power?
The same amount they did 1946-1991, practically none, but that didn't stop people in the west from being scared of it.
That conveniently leaves out the Polish-Soviet war of 1919-21, Hungarian communist revolution and invaded neighboring nations, and the 3 communists uprisings in Germany between 1919-23. There were also communist movements within those countries too and spy rings. Of course we know with hindsight that the USSR was more scared of the West than vice-versa and was trying to defend itself and build itself up in this period and post-WW2, but there were enough reasons for the western nations and the majority of their non-communist favorable publics to fear (even if less reason than for the Soviets to fear the west).
 
That conveniently leaves out the Polish-Soviet war of 1919-21, Hungarian communist revolution and invaded neighboring nations, and the 3 communists uprisings in Germany between 1919-23. There were also communist movements within those countries too and spy rings. Of course we know with hindsight that the USSR was more scared of the West than vice-versa and was trying to defend itself and build itself up in this period and post-WW2, but there were enough reasons for the western nations and the majority of their non-communist favorable publics to fear (even if less reason than for the Soviets to fear the west).

Do you think the Hungarian communist revolution, or the communist uprisings in Germany, would not have happened absent Soviet involvement? I mean, the fascists had no problem rising up without the existence of a fascist great power.
 

kernals12

Banned
Do you think the Hungarian communist revolution, or the communist uprisings in Germany, would not have happened absent Soviet involvement? I mean, the fascists had no problem rising up without the existence of a fascist great power.
Mussolini was appointed Prime Minister amidst massive socialist unrest in Italy.
 
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