192 in an RFK Presidency

1972 in an RFK Presidency

I know this has likely been done before, but I want specific, targeted responses. In my annual Space Race simulation, it is 1971, and I know we'll get to the '72 election this session. Against all odds, RFK won the election in '68.

Differences from OTL include a real drawdown in Vietnam--probably withdrawal by 1972 rather than resurgence of the air war. Also, the Space Race is tighter--the Soviets landed on the moon in October 1969, so space budgets are accordingly bigger.

Who will Kennedy be running against in '72? Also, who is Kennedy's running mate in '68? Will he swap in '72?

Thanks!
 
Last edited:
Get to know RogueBeaver. He's an absolute Kexpert (Kennedy-Expert), and his specialty is RFK. This is his excellent RFK in '68 TL: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=157130

IDK what RB would say about RFK in the space race, but I do know that RB would say that if you wanted to get a picture of an RFK presidency, look no further than the domestic policies of Bill Clinton. RB had RFK go up against Senator Peter Dominick in '72. RFK's VEEP (in both '68 and '72) was Carl Sanders.
 
Pleased to meet you. In 1968 RFK would choose either NC Gov. Terry Sanford or Georgia Gov. Carl Sanders as his running mate. In 1972 he would most likely be facing George Romney if Reagan declines to run- which is likely considering Reagan refused to consider leaving California until he left office despite numerous Cabinet offers from Ford and being considered for the Vice Presidency twice. He will stay with one of those 2 Southerners in 1972.


A common misconception of 1968 is that RFK was an uber-dove with slightly more realism than McCarthy: but it's a myth. His position (as was Nixon's and Humphrey's- Reagan was for escalation, McCarthy cut-and-run) was Vietnamization, which had been his brother's policy before Johnson Americanized it by withdrawing NSAM 273 in November 1963 and despatching combat troops 18 months later. He will sell South Vietnam the arms they need to fight the air war on their own: Phantoms, Corsairs, Skyhawks, more Patton tanks, and most crucially ECM, KC-130s and refuelling probes. Promoting the best talent is up to Thieu, who despised Kennedy with a passion.
 
Get to know RogueBeaver. He's an absolute Kexpert (Kennedy-Expert), and his specialty is RFK. This is his excellent RFK in '68 TL: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=157130

IDK what RB would say about RFK in the space race, but I do know that RB would say that if you wanted to get a picture of an RFK presidency, look no further than the domestic policies of Bill Clinton. RB had RFK go up against Senator Peter Dominick in '72. RFK's VEEP (in both '68 and '72) was Carl Sanders.

RFK was not overly enthusiastic about space: he once said that given the choice between cutting space and welfare, he'd choose the former- at a Boeing plant I might add. Like JFK he saw it as a prestige project to beat the Soviets and not much more. As a relative deficit hawk he'll bring down the axe just as hard as Nixon did after 1969.

Careful on the Clinton: the healthcare plan is somewhat different as I outlined in my TL, but the rest is interchangeable.
 
Yarborough is too old, too liberal and seen as a traitor in Dixiecrat eyes. Plus the unpleasant memories of 5 years prior: it was in part Yarborough's feud with Connally that brought his brother to Dallas.
 
The EPA: pollution was a particular bugbear of Kennedy's in New York, particularly given that he was a physical fitness fanatic who loved the outdoors, (unlike Nixon) so he would create the EPA. No idea about Elvis.

An overarching theme with RFK is federalism, restoring power to the local level and private sector: something that Reagan pushed IOTL as well but never got through a Democratic Congress. That's one of the many ideological contact points between Kennedy and Johnson: their vision(besides the overarching contrast of New Dealism v. DLC) was different. Johnson wanted a New Deal 2.0 directed from Washington, Kennedy thought local governments and the private sector, "properly incentivized" (his idea on that subject, as always, turned up 30 years later as Clinton's New Markets Initiative in 1999) could handle most of it, with the Feds as a last resort.
 
Thanks, RB!

Yes, I'm not having Kennedy particularly space-friendly. I've pointed out to the player that social projects are more important.

However, with the Russians still viable players in the moon race, I don't see an American landing being the end of the game.

That said, all players are experiencing nagging budget cuts. :)
 
No, Gore's too liberal period. Sanders is the same age as RFK, same ideological profile, while being a racial moderate, not a liberal- that's why I picked him over Sanford in my TL.
 
Why is being "too liberal" a problem in American politics?
Is it for the same reason being "too conservative" is a problem - that most voters are always in the centre?
 
On race: if RFK doesn't win 1 or 2 Southern states he cannot win the presidency. (Nixon, as a Californian, will carry CA by 5-7 points) Being the Southern Antichrist, a Southern running mate is essential. It is also helpful to have a running mate with whom you agree on the issues.
 
On race: if RFK doesn't win 1 or 2 Southern states he cannot win the presidency. (Nixon, as a Californian, will carry CA by 5-7 points) Being the Southern Antichrist, a Southern running mate is essential. It is also helpful to have a running mate with whom you agree on the issues.

Well, I agree that Nixon probably carries CA, but in OTL he only carried it by 3 points against Humphrey. Why would RFK do worse in the state? Particularly if he's winning nationwide, I'd imagine Bobby'd have a decent shot in CA.
 
Top