1903 German-American War over Venezuela

raharris1973

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WI Germany proceeded to navally reinforce its blockade of Venezuela, in defiance of U.S. warnings, assuming the U.S. is bluffing, and then the U.S. concentrated it's fleet and somebody started shooting beyond the ability to contain the incident.

How is that initial battle likely to go?

For a longer war, what might the Germans and Americans in 1903 do to each other, in what parts of the world, and what might they want to claim as prize(s) of victory if the issue expands beyond Venezuela itself?
 

James G

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I'm not sure about the naval battle off Venezuela as my knowledge doesn't stretch that far.
As to where the US and Germany might clash afterwards, I'd say in the South Pacific around Samoa at least.
 
The US has 11 Battleships, though only 4 are what I'd really consider first rate, plus 1 more in December '03 and one October '04. In addition they have 2 Armored cruisers and 8 Monitors with 1 more each in march and june '03. Not counting ships to be ready later

Germany has 12 Battleships, all with smaller main guns than the American battleships, with four more building ready in May '03, April '04, October '04 and November '04, 2 armored cruisers, plus another in December '03 and Jan '04 and 9 Coastal Defense ships. Not counting ships to be ready in 1905 or later

Realistically Germany is only going to be able to send the battleships and armored cruisers off to fight overseas. The US has the edge here in that Germany is going to be operating with long supply lines and the US can bring everything to the party, while Germany would be wise to leave their coast defense ships home. US ships will have rested crews and be less worn when combat happens. Results I can't really say
 
Didn't the Germans want to take the Philippenes from the U.S. at some point? We might see some clashes there if the crisis expands beyond Venezuela. A little more research reveals that the Germans also wanted to grab Puerto Rico and Cuba at one point or another, so those might become scenes of a U.S.- German war in Latin America. Samoa, as James G. already said, would also probably become a battlefield, having already been a point of contention between the U.S. and the German Empire during the Samoan Civil Wars.

As I'm certain everyone here knows, the Germans drew up plans for an attack on the American East Coast during this time, but most of the German military leadership recognized that any such attempt would be crushed.

Another detail: from what I understand, it wasn't soley the Germans blockading Venezuela. The British were involved as well, though it seems that the idea of fighting alongside the Germans was quite unpopular. I would say the British would probably nope their way out of there once the situation got really tense.
 
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NoMommsen

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Well, the german and american naval forces apparent in june 1898 at Manila and the surrounding sea were quite equal.
Therefore, any naval battle - if the other nations war ships also apparent (for watching the show between the spaniards and the US-boys) stay aloft - you can flipp some coins ... or choose whatever you personally prefer, IMO.

"Taking" the Philippines ... is another game. The germans had no or only very few marine soldiers. The US-Marines were still on sea, inbound for beginning August.
Also depends on how the "guy on the spot" of the german side would have done, acting on it own (no wireless, no cable contact to the "rest" of the world, the US ships had cut the line before eliminating the spanish Pacific Fleet on 1st May).
Maybe best bet would have been to "ally" with the Fillipino independence fighters ashore, making a deal with them for "protection" only but some "special rights" for the german empire.

However, with such a battle the spanish-a,erican war would have suddenly become a spanish-american-german war.
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Interesting thought, but should/could be exploited by someone on the : Before 1900 board.
 
The two fleets would never find each other. Neither really had much force projection and relied on the bases of others. For two fleets to find each other and force battle oceans apart is impossible. There might be some commerce raiding on the high seas Very soon, all American and German shipping will be flying a different flag and the game would be over.

The two countries would have really bad relations for years after. The Americans might extract vengeance when WWI breaks out
 
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raharris1973

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The two fleets would never find each other. Neither really had much force projection and relied on the bases of others. For two fleets to find each other and force battle oceans apart is impossible. There might be some commerce raiding on the high seas Very soon, all American and German shipping will be flying a different flag and the game would be over.

The two countries would have really bad relations for years after. The Americans might extract vengeance when WWI breaks out

Commercial shipping can be hard to find and can easily reflag, but land objectives like the Venezuelan coast, Samos, the Philippines, Micronesia, Guam and Puerto Rico are not mobile and therefore are probable scenes of invasions and probably battles.
 
Commercial shipping can be hard to find and can easily reflag, but land objectives like the Venezuelan coast, Samos, the Philippines, Micronesia, Guam and Puerto Rico are not mobile and therefore are probable scenes of invasions and probably battles.

How are the Germans gonna ship an invasion force across the entire Atlantic to land on an Island in America's backyard mega sea lion anyone
 
Commercial shipping can be hard to find and can easily reflag, but land objectives like the Venezuelan coast, Samos, the Philippines, Micronesia, Guam and Puerto Rico are not mobile and therefore are probable scenes of invasions and probably battles.

Shipping invasion forces across the Atlantic or Pacific and keeping them supplied for objectives of little value is not going to be a war strategy. Even the juene ecole strategy of bombarding unprotected coastal cities is worthless.

Now gunrunning to the remaining Philippine rebels might do some damage In the end, the two powers are quickly going to decide that this is big expense no gain and find a settlement
 

raharris1973

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Any areas in the Caribbean are much closer to the US, with all the logistical advantages that provides. Areas in the south and western Pacific are more equally remote from both the US and Germany.
 
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