1861: Prince Albert Survives, Bertie Dies

Let's say Albert lives to 1887 (this lets him live long enough to see all the girls married off and prevent Victoria from trying the whole 'make someone a spinster companion' play). I also decided to reroll Vicky's post-1861 for fun, but you can replace them with OTL figures if so desired.

Victoria(b.1819 r.1837 d.1901) m. Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b.1819 m.1839 d.1887)
  1. Victoria, Princess Royal (1840 - 1901) m. Frederick III of Germany
    1. Wilhelm II (1859 - 1941)
    2. Charlotte (1860 - 1919)
    3. Henry (1862 - 1864)
    4. Viktoria (1864 - 1931)
    5. Sophie (1866 - 1877)
    6. Sigismund (1868 - 1931)
    7. Waldemar (1870 - 1875)
    8. Frederick (1872 - 1875)
  2. Albert Edward, Prince of Wales (1841-1861)
  3. Alice (1843 - 1878)** m. Louis IV of Hesse
    1. Ernest Louis (1863 - 1866)*
    2. Victoria (1864 - 1941)**
    3. Frederick (1866 - 1870)
    4. Elisabeth (1868 - 1922)**
    5. Irene (1870 - 1957)
    6. Alix (1872 - 1878)
    7. Marie (1874 - 1878)**
  4. Alfred, Prince of Wales (1844 - 1900) m. Alexandra of Denmark
    1. Louise (1864 -1929)
    2. Victoria (1865 - 1871)
    3. Maud (1867 - 1931)
    4. Alexandra (1868 - 1928)
    5. Beatrice (1869 - 1882)
    6. Albert Victor (1871)
  5. Helena (1846 - 1923) m. William II of Wurttemberg
    1. Helena Victoria (1867 - 1900)
    2. Marie Louise (1869)
    3. Pauline (1870 - 1932)
    4. Ulrich (1872 - 1950)
    5. William Victor (1876 - 1960)
    6. Catherine (1877 - 1965)
  6. Louise (1848 - 1939) [1] m. Charles Augustus, Hereditary Grand Duke of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach
    1. Wilhelm (1874 - 1921)
    2. Bernhard* (1876 - 1900)
    3. Charles (1878 - 1932)
    4. Albert (1881 - 1883)
    5. Augustus* (1883)
    6. Alexander* (1885 - 1910)
  7. Arthur, Duke of Saxe Coburg & Gotha (1850 - 1942) m. Elisabeth of Anhalt
    1. Arthur (1878 - 1948)
    2. Margaret (1880)
    3. Patricia (1882 - 1920)
    4. Albert (1883 - 1888)
    5. Victoria (1886 - 1974)
    6. Elisabeth (1888 - 1908)
  8. Leopold, Duke of Albany (1853 - 1884)* m. Helena of Waldeck Pyrmont
    1. Alice** (1883 - 1981)
    2. Victoria Leopoldina ** (1884 - 1954)
  9. Beatrice** (1857 - 1944) m. Frederick II, Grand Duke of Baden
    1. Frederick* (1886 - 1890)
    2. Leopold (1887 - 1899)
    3. Victoria Eugenie (1889 - 1922)
    4. Louise (1891 - 1960)
NOTES:
* = has hemophilia
** = carrier of hemophilia
[1] I used a random number picker to decide whether Louise carried hemophilia since she has no kids IOTL to test the theory, same with determining which kids of Alice,Louise and Beatrice had hemophilia or were carriers
 
Oh that’s interesting didn’t kknow Arthur was that high up in the ranks.
The thrones in Germany were tied by the Salic law. So where in Britain, Arthur was displaced by not just nephews but also nieces from both his older brothers, in Coburg, he was next after Affie,
 
The thrones in Germany were tied by the Salic law. So where in Britain, Arthur was displaced by not just nephews but also nieces from both his older brothers, in Coburg, he was next after Affie,


I think @VVD0D95 meant as far as military ranks were concerned, not the succession
But as we now know, he did give up his claim as did his son, /prince Arthur of Connaught and the Ducal throne went to his nephew the Duke of Albany.

The same article also mentions that the duke of Connaught's son (at the time of writing) was in poor health, which may have likewise played a role in Art's refusal.

@WillVictoria: I like the tree. Although a couple pointers.
  • Louisa or Helena would be likely to end up in Amsterdam as wife of Willem III's son and heir. Alice found him "too plain" and Willem III wasn't exactly eager for a British match, although his wife (Sophie of Württemberg) and govt was. IIRC Wim was more interested in a Russian grand duchess or a Prussian princess. Albert living means that a match is likely to happen, since Helena was blocked from making decent matches by her mom who thought her "too plain" and "chucky" (dumpy). When I read that, I was like "pot meet kettle", since Victoria was both short and stout.
  • Same for Beatrice. The queen of the Netherlands wanted her half-nephew (Wilhelm II of Württemberg) to wed Beatrice (and in this she and Wilhelm's mom (her half-sister) were in agreement. The duke of Teck was used as their "in" at the British court, but Victoria wouldn't hear of it).
  • Artie I could half see wedding Maria Alexandrovna in this scenario, but Elisabeth of Anhalt works.
  • Leopold had a very unfortunate history as far as marriages were concerned. The first girl he wanted to marry was Calma of Schleswig (sister of Dona, Empress of Germany). But Calma's uncle and guardian, (and Leopold's brother-in-law), Prince Christian - husband of Princess Helena, stood on that match because they feared that Leopold would die young and leave her a widow. Disappointed, he moved onto Friederike "Lily" of Hannover. Queen Victoria scotched this one herself, since she feared the blindness that Lily's dad suffered from was hereditary. However, Lily remained very good friends with Leopold, who actually helped her get married to her dad's adc. After Lily, Leopold tried with a local girl, Mary Baring, daughter of Baron Ashburton and later marquess of Northampton. Mary turned him down. Another local girl, Daisy Maynard rejected Leopold because she was in love with his tutor. Again, guess whose playing matchmaker, since Leopold helped get Daisy and his tutor hitched as well. Other girls considered, but both of whom refused on grounds of his health, were Elizabeth of Hesse-Kassel (erbprinzessin of Anhalt) and Victoria of Baden (OTL queen of Sweden). In a scenario where Albert survives, I could see a Hannoverian match going through, since he seems likely to be able to convince Victoria that blindness is not hereditary (which Leo actually tried, but his mom was against him marrying at all). It was only very late in the day that Victoria came to understand how important being a husband and dad was to Leopold that she finally relented. So I could definitely see him marrying by the mid-1870s here, rather than only the 1880s.
 
I think @VVD0D95 meant as far as military ranks were concerned, not the succession


The same article also mentions that the duke of Connaught's son (at the time of writing) was in poor health, which may have likewise played a role in Art's refusal.

@WillVictoria: I like the tree. Although a couple pointers.
  • Louisa or Helena would be likely to end up in Amsterdam as wife of Willem III's son and heir. Alice found him "too plain" and Willem III wasn't exactly eager for a British match, although his wife (Sophie of Württemberg) and govt was. IIRC Wim was more interested in a Russian grand duchess or a Prussian princess. Albert living means that a match is likely to happen, since Helena was blocked from making decent matches by her mom who thought her "too plain" and "chucky" (dumpy). When I read that, I was like "pot meet kettle", since Victoria was both short and stout.
  • Same for Beatrice. The queen of the Netherlands wanted her half-nephew (Wilhelm II of Württemberg) to wed Beatrice (and in this she and Wilhelm's mom (her half-sister) were in agreement. The duke of Teck was used as their "in" at the British court, but Victoria wouldn't hear of it).
  • Artie I could half see wedding Maria Alexandrovna in this scenario, but Elisabeth of Anhalt works.
  • Leopold had a very unfortunate history as far as marriages were concerned. The first girl he wanted to marry was Calma of Schleswig (sister of Dona, Empress of Germany). But Calma's uncle and guardian, (and Leopold's brother-in-law), Prince Christian - husband of Princess Helena, stood on that match because they feared that Leopold would die young and leave her a widow. Disappointed, he moved onto Friederike "Lily" of Hannover. Queen Victoria scotched this one herself, since she feared the blindness that Lily's dad suffered from was hereditary. However, Lily remained very good friends with Leopold, who actually helped her get married to her dad's adc. After Lily, Leopold tried with a local girl, Mary Baring, daughter of Baron Ashburton and later marquess of Northampton. Mary turned him down. Another local girl, Daisy Maynard rejected Leopold because she was in love with his tutor. Again, guess whose playing matchmaker, since Leopold helped get Daisy and his tutor hitched as well. Other girls considered, but both of whom refused on grounds of his health, were Elizabeth of Hesse-Kassel (erbprinzessin of Anhalt) and Victoria of Baden (OTL queen of Sweden). In a scenario where Albert survives, I could see a Hannoverian match going through, since he seems likely to be able to convince Victoria that blindness is not hereditary (which Leo actually tried, but his mom was against him marrying at all). It was only very late in the day that Victoria came to understand how important being a husband and dad was to Leopold that she finally relented. So I could definitely see him marrying by the mid-1870s here, rather than only the 1880s.
The main reason I initially stayed away from Willem jr. was due to his licentiousness, which I thought would be a turnoff for Albert here's an updated list (I gave Willem to Helena and put Beatrice in Wurttemberg
Victoria(b.1819 r.1837 d.1901) m. Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b.1819 m.1839 d.1887)
  1. Victoria, Princess Royal (1840 - 1901) m. Frederick III of Germany
    1. Wilhelm II (1859 - 1941)
    2. Charlotte (1860 - 1919)
    3. Henry (1862 - 1864)
    4. Viktoria (1864 - 1931)
    5. Sophie (1866 - 1877)
    6. Sigismund (1868 - 1931)
    7. Waldemar (1870 - 1875)
    8. Frederick (1872 - 1875)
  2. Albert Edward, Prince of Wales (1841-1861)
  3. Alice (1843 - 1878)** m. Louis IV of Hesse
    1. Ernest Louis (1863 - 1866)*
    2. Victoria (1864 - 1941)**
    3. Frederick (1866 - 1870)
    4. Elisabeth (1868 - 1922)**
    5. Irene (1870 - 1957)
    6. Alix (1872 - 1878)
    7. Marie (1874 - 1878)**
  4. Alfred, Prince of Wales (1844 - 1900) m. Alexandra of Denmark
    1. Louise (1864 -1929)
    2. Victoria (1865 - 1871)
    3. Maud (1867 - 1931)
    4. Alexandra (1868 - 1928)
    5. Beatrice (1869 - 1882)
    6. Albert Victor (1871)
  5. Helena (1846 - 1923) m. William, Prince of Orange
    1. William IV (1867 - 1900)
    2. Helena Victoria (1869)
    3. Albert (1870 - 1932)
    4. Marie Sophie (1872 - 1950)
    5. Louise (1876 - 1960)
  6. Louise (1848 - 1939) [1] m. Charles Augustus, Hereditary Grand Duke of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach
    1. Wilhelm (1874 - 1921)
    2. Bernhard* (1876 - 1900)
    3. Charles (1878 - 1932)
    4. Albert (1881 - 1883)
    5. Augustus* (1883)
    6. Alexander* (1885 - 1910)
  7. Arthur, Duke of Saxe Coburg & Gotha (1850 - 1942) m. Elisabeth of Anhalt
    1. Arthur (1878 - 1948)
    2. Margaret (1880)
    3. Patricia (1882 - 1920)
    4. Albert (1883 - 1888)
    5. Victoria (1886 - 1974)
    6. Elisabeth (1888 - 1908)
  8. Leopold, Duke of Albany (1853 - 1884)* m. Frederica of Hanover
    1. Charles Edward (1876 - 1974)
    2. George (1878 - 1948)
    3. Alice** (1879)
    4. Victoria ** (1881 - 1954)
    5. Leopold (1884 - 1938)
  9. Beatrice** (1857 - 1944) m. William II of Wurttemberg
    1. Victoria Eugenie (1886 - 1890)
    2. Pauline** (1887 - 1899)
    3. Catherine** (1889 - 1922)
    4. Sophia** (1891 - 1960)
 
Any other thoughts on how Victoria's NON-widow of Windsor vibe and the lack of Bertie's "transformation" of the monarchy would affect things? AIUI Albert had a VERY different view of what the monarchy should be to what it developed into.
 
I'm also wondering. Since AFAIUI Albert was involved in diffusing the Trent affair and probably would've likewise counselled non-involvement. Unless @edgeworthy means that it would make for a change of POD for an ACW TL

Albert preaches non-involvement but he also wanted Victoria to be less partisan with regards to her political allegiances.

Could Albert surviving and his dislike of Palmerston have shuffled the second Palmerston ministry so that John Russell doesn't come after him? An early Election than OTL, perhaps?
 
Albert preaches non-involvement but he also wanted Victoria to be less partisan with regards to her political allegiances.

Could Albert surviving and his dislike of Palmerston have shuffled the second Palmerston ministry so that John Russell doesn't come after him? An early Election than OTL, perhaps?
Its possible that someone could write a TL where war does break out because Albert Living means that Britain is more proactive about preparations for war and someone on the American side panics when it seems that Britain is actively seeking a confrontation.
Albert may have been more conciliatory but that doesn't mean he believed in being unprepared.
It would quite plausible that he could push through military reforms in the face of the Duke of Cambridge's opposition, afterall he would be the one with the full support of the Queen.
 
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