1861: Prince Albert Survives, Bertie Dies

What it says on the lid, what if Bertie had been the one who had died in 1861 after his dad's visit to Cambridge. Let's assume that Albert's cause of death was typhoid as was commonly believed (rather than a combo of Crohn's disease/renal failure/abdominal cancer), and say that he passes it on to Bertie. Bertie dies, in the flush of youth, while Albert sickens but pulls through.

What might this change for the future of the British monarchy, both short and long term?
 
Immediate effect is that Alfred is now the heir apparent, and Victoria doesn’t withdraw I. On herself

This is true. I imagine that Alix of Denmark finds herself without a husband as well. Victoria wasn't in favour of the match, only agreeing because Albert had wanted it. So I could half see that it won't be pursued for Affie. Besides, some of the candidates who were rejected for Bertie on grounds of their appearance or age might be considered more fitting for Affie. It's also unlikely that the idea of a Russian match for him goes likewise by the board. I mean, he can't wait until he's 30yo to wed like he did OTL.
 
This is true. I imagine that Alix of Denmark finds herself without a husband as well. Victoria wasn't in favour of the match, only agreeing because Albert had wanted it. So I could half see that it won't be pursued for Affie. Besides, some of the candidates who were rejected for Bertie on grounds of their appearance or age might be considered more fitting for Affie. It's also unlikely that the idea of a Russian match for him goes likewise by the board. I mean, he can't wait until he's 30yo to wed like he did OTL.
Aye very true which means Alexandra might develop a problem with Britain here aha.
 
Well if she’s been considered for Britain for so long abd is suddenly not getting married there resentment is natural no?

Well, I'd imagine if Bertie had lived and married elsewhere, yes. But here, she can't be. Sure, they might suggest her for Affie, but the question of whether Victoria will go for it is another one entirely. Likely as not, if not London, Alix ends up in St. Petersburg as replacement for her sister Minnie in the marriage with Nixa.
 
Well, I'd imagine if Bertie had lived and married elsewhere, yes. But here, she can't be. Sure, they might suggest her for Affie, but the question of whether Victoria will go for it is another one entirely. Likely as not, if not London, Alix ends up in St. Petersburg as replacement for her sister Minnie in the marriage with Nixa.
Interesting who would Alfred get in this instance? Marie of the Netherlands?
 
It also means that Arthur probably gets the Duchy of Saxe Coburg and Gotha, as well as Connaught and Strathearn, given that the Safe Coburg title bypassed Bertie and inferred on Affie IOTL.

IOTL, Arthur rejected the Duchy even when Affie and his son died, so it jumped over to Leopolds kid instead. With the plan for Arthur to be Duke of Safe Coburg from such an early age of 11 - rather than the age of 49 when he rejected it IOTL - would he even be able to reject the title.

This plan might also mean a different wife for Arthur, rather than Louise of Prussia, might he marry elsewhere? Might he end up marrying OTL Duchess of Edinburgh rather than Affie?
 
Interesting who would Alfred get in this instance? Marie of the Netherlands?

OTL, the four ladies considered for Affie were: Maria Alexandrovna of Russia, Eugenia Maximilianovna of Leuchtenberg (b.1845), Katharina of Oldenburg (b.1846) and Elisabeth of Wied (b.1843). Affie himself pressed to marry Friederike "Lily" of Hannover (b.1848), although Victoria was not in favour of the match because she feared the blindness of Lily's dad was genetic. Likewise, Affie hoped that Bertie wouldn't like Alix so that he himself could marry her.
If we add to these girls those considered for Bertie: Anna of Hesse and by Rhine (b.1843), Auguste of Saxe-Meiningen (b.1843), Alexandrine of Prussia (b.1842), Marie of Saxe-Weimar (b.1849), Victoria mentions a princess of Württemberg for Bertie in a letter of 1862 to the Princess Royal, but I can't seem to find who this was.
There is also the young Princess of Wurttemberg for him; never mind equality of age. How many marry people of the same age?"

So. If we winnow the ladies.
Maria Alexandrovna's too young. She'd likely be kept for Arthur or married off elsewhere.
Eugenia and Katharina are both unimportant enough for a king of England (plus Eugenia's Beauharnais blood may make it problematic).
Elisabeth of Wied and Marie of Saxe-Weimar are the two Dutch candidates. Not sure what the problem with Carmen Sylva was, but Marie of Saxe-Weimar Bertie didn't like because she was too plain Jane.
Anna of Hesse reportedly had a facial tic which made Vicky discount her, and Alexandrine of Prussia was reportedly neither pretty nor clever.
 
By 1861 the Princess Eliabeth of Wied had been discarded from the shortlist as being too "loud" in her behaviour; the Princess Anna of Hesse was too plain, though docile and religious; Alexandrine of Prussia was neither clever nor pretty; the Princess of Saxe-Meiningen was delicate in health, as was Marie of the Netherlands; the Princess of Anhalt-Dessau was too old and the Princess of Sweden too young".

It also means that Arthur probably gets the Duchy of Saxe Coburg and Gotha, as well as Connaught and Strathearn, given that the Safe Coburg title bypassed Bertie and inferred on Affie IOTL.

IOTL, Arthur rejected the Duchy even when Affie and his son died, so it jumped over to Leopolds kid instead. With the plan for Arthur to be Duke of Safe Coburg from such an early age of 11 - rather than the age of 49 when he rejected it IOTL - would he even be able to reject the title.

This plan might also mean a different wife for Arthur, rather than Louise of Prussia, might he marry elsewhere? Might he end up marrying OTL Duchess of Edinburgh rather than Affie?

Arthur's match to Luise wasn't his mother's doing. In fact, his dear old mam tried to prevent it. There had been talk of him marrying Thyra of Denmark, but the Danish court weren't very impressed with Artie, finding him "lacking in looks and talent".

Queen Victoria had her suspicions - "How is it that Louise [of Prussia] should become in a few days so attached to Arthur? Did you and Charlotte not beforehand sing his praises to her? What I regret is that no one gave me a hint of this as I had so particularly wished Arthur to see others before he engaged himself to anyone". While it seems certain that the Crown Princess (as she was) was fond of Louise, who she considered to be "by far the nicest most sensible and nice of Marianne's girls, the only one who is intimate with our children......and quite brought up by an excellent English governess, a Miss Jackson" and would certainly have made sure that Arthur had opportunities to meet her in Berlin, it was actually QV herself, according to Noble Frankland in his biography of Arthur, who sent Arthur to Berlin as the representative of the British royal family to the marriage of Princess Charlotte, albeit with stern warnings. Arthur wrote to his mother before he left London, that "I have no wish to be married at present & I quite agree with you that a Prussian Princess would be unadvisable." However, upon meeting her at dinner three days later, Arthur immediately informed his mother that he thought her "rather pretty" and six days after that, they entered privately into an engagement, subject to the consent of QV. While the Crown Princess would have been very pleased at the outcome, it does appear as if Arthur was the one who made the running, as while it was likely that Louise would have been disposed to fall in love with a man who was the brother of the Crown Princess who had been very kind to her, and who could take her away from her bullying father and unhappy home, Arthur was primed to resist the "unadvisable" match and he must have had a very strong attraction to Louise. Though I've always wondered if this was one of the few forms of rebellion Arthur ever made!
 
This is true. I imagine that Alix of Denmark finds herself without a husband as well. Victoria wasn't in favour of the match, only agreeing because Albert had wanted it. So I could half see that it won't be pursued for Affie. Besides, some of the candidates who were rejected for Bertie on grounds of their appearance or age might be considered more fitting for Affie. It's also unlikely that the idea of a Russian match for him goes likewise by the board. I mean, he can't wait until he's 30yo to wed like he did OTL.
I don't see why Alexandra would be eliminated after a proper period of mourning for Bertie. She could still be a match for Alfred considering Albert liked her as a future Queen of Britain, so why not for Alfred? (I believe Alfred was quite fond of her even after his brother married her. This bothered Victoria too.) The British government, especially after the Prussians war with Denmark and growing power to unify Germany, may rather have a non-German Princess to marry their future king in what some still considered a German Family reigning in Britain. As for Coburg, I can see like Bertie, Alfred renouncing the Duchy Throne, but who is to say Arthur would willingly fall into line. As a career Army man, his attachment to the British Army was both affectionate and strong, and I don't see him, like his nephew (Brother Leopold's son) did, siding with the German Empire against his former soldiers in Britain. As Duke of Coburg, would he and his son fight against brother/nephew/cousin Alfred or descendant? Would they abdicate/renounce the Ducal throne? Would nephew/cousin Wilhelm II seize their throne from them for not siding with the German Empire? Very interesting scenario.
 
I don't see why Alexandra would be eliminated after a proper period of mourning for Bertie. She could still be a match for Alfred considering Albert liked her as a future Queen of Britain, so why not for Alfred? (I believe Alfred was quite fond of her even after his brother married her. This bothered Victoria too.) The British government, especially after the Prussians war with Denmark and growing power to unify Germany, may rather have a non-German Princess to marry their future king in what some still considered a German Family reigning in Britain. As for Coburg, I can see like Bertie, Alfred renouncing the Duchy Throne, but who is to say Arthur would willingly fall into line. As a career Army man, his attachment to the British Army was both affectionate and strong, and I don't see him, like his nephew (Brother Leopold's son) did, siding with the German Empire against his former soldiers in Britain. As Duke of Coburg, would he and his son fight against brother/nephew/cousin Alfred or descendant? Would they abdicate/renounce the Ducal throne? Would nephew/cousin Wilhelm II seize their throne from them for not siding with the German Empire? Very interesting scenario.

In the case of Arthur, this is of course assuming that Britain and Germany were always going to go to war with one another
 
In the case of Arthur, this is of course assuming that Britain and Germany were always going to go to war with one another
True. We all know of the strained relationship Edward VII (Bertie) and Wilhelm II had with each other. But what was relationship between Willy and his other uncles? Affie and Arthur? If they were the same, (Bertie and Affie were close, not sure about Arthur) the relationship between uncle and nephew monarchs might still be the same.
 
From a convo on this same subject:

If Albert survives, presumably Victoria doesn't go into her shell, which could mean that the whole royal family doing a shit tonne of engagements which Bertie started doesn't happen here, which could leave the royals either isolated or needing something new to bring about change. Of course if Albert ain't dead, Victoria isn't going to be a moody widow, and therefore, might find another way to change things for the better for the crown. Though this does make me wonder whether Albert being alive would make everything worse?
 
Am I wrong in that I could half see Albert taking Bertie's firstborn son away in a similar fashion to Kaiser Wilhelm I and Carol I of Romania, hoping to get right with his grandson what he failed with his son? I mean he wouldn't be the first parent to do that. Papa Mozart springs to mind, he tried it twice OTL: with Wolfgang, then attempted to repeat it with Nannerl's oldest son, a second Leopold. Presumably, had he and Wolfie been on better terms post-1781, he might've tried it with Wolfie's son, Karl Thomas, who was likewise a talented pianist from a young age.
 
I don't see why Alexandra would be eliminated after a proper period of mourning for Bertie. She could still be a match for Alfred considering Albert liked her as a future Queen of Britain, so why not for Alfred? (I believe Alfred was quite fond of her even after his brother married her. This bothered Victoria too.) The British government, especially after the Prussians war with Denmark and growing power to unify Germany, may rather have a non-German Princess to marry their future king in what some still considered a German Family reigning in Britain. As for Coburg, I can see like Bertie, Alfred renouncing the Duchy Throne, but who is to say Arthur would willingly fall into line. As a career Army man, his attachment to the British Army was both affectionate and strong, and I don't see him, like his nephew (Brother Leopold's son) did, siding with the German Empire against his former soldiers in Britain. As Duke of Coburg, would he and his son fight against brother/nephew/cousin Alfred or descendant? Would they abdicate/renounce the Ducal throne? Would nephew/cousin Wilhelm II seize their throne from them for not siding with the German Empire? Very interesting scenario.
This. Alex will simply take a cue from her OTL sister and daughter-in-law and move onto the next PoW.

Another consequence of Albert living is that the younger girls (Lenchen, Louise, and Beatrice) will likely make much more significant matches then the nobodies they got IOTL. Albert was the one who wanted to strategically matchmake (see the marriages he arranged for Vicky and Alice) vs. Victoria who wanted penniless princes willing to live in England so she could keep the girls on as companions.
 
but who is to say Arthur would willingly fall into line. As a career Army man, his attachment to the British Army was both affectionate and strong, and I don't see him, like his nephew (Brother Leopold's son) did, siding with the German Empire against his former soldiers in Britain. As Duke of Coburg, would he and his son fight against brother/nephew/cousin Alfred or descendant? Would they abdicate/renounce the Ducal throne? Would nephew/cousin Wilhelm II seize their throne from them for not siding with the German Empire? Very interesting scenario

According to a newspaper article published after Affie's son's death in 1899:
The next in line to the throne is the Duke of Connaught, who is married to a Prussian princess. He is said to be on good terms with his nephew, the Kaiser. It is now expected that the Duke will have to give up his post of Commander-in-chief of the British Army
 
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