1814: Napoleon Commits Suicide

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Nekromans, Apr 18, 2008.

  1. Nekromans Mernber

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    On Napoleon's exile to Elba, he tried to commit suicide twice. First, he drank a vial of opium he'd carried around with him for years - but it had weakened too much to be of any use. We probably can't do anything with that. However, his second attempt was to shoot himself in the head - but his servant had removed the powder. He then gave up.

    Let's say the servant doesn't remove the powder. How does the world react to the Emperor's brain being splattered over the wall?
     
  2. Anaxagoras Vox clamantis in deserto Banned

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    The phrase "He met his Waterloo" never enters the lexicon.
     
  3. Kalan Well-Known Member

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    The congress of Vienna is likely to fail. Only Napoleons escape made the various powers realize that they had to come to an agreement. Without this I don't see the congress coming to a conclussion, so the various powers will acknowledge the status quo and make seperate agreements with each others - for instance the russians will try to trade saxony for posen.
     
  4. rcduggan 大元帅

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    Why would they?


    I do agree about him becoming a martyr for the Bonapartists though. Maybe because of this the second empire gets formed earlier?
     
  5. Thande A special man who knows these things Donor

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    I was going to suggest this POD a while back when I came across it, but I forgot.

    Some obvious stuff: no Hundred Days, no Waterloo. The Emperor is probably more of a mythic figure and an inspiration for his admirers, because in TTL he never lost a battle and did not allow himself to be humbled. The Bourbon restoration in France might be a bit more stable without the trauma of the Hundred Days and the army defecting. Congress of Vienna may be different.

    The British Army loses its most cinematic victory but gains the vast number of experienced veterans who died on that day (including quite a few generals and colonels who'd survived years of the Peninsular War).

    I wonder if there would be any effect on the War of 1812.
     
  6. Susano Banned

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    No Hundred Days means the Conrgess of Vienan fails. Simple as that. Thats a HUGE divergence. There ar etwo options: Either, it implodes in war between the western and the eastern powers (France/UK vs Prussia/Russia, Austrias side is anybodys guess), or it remains at the status quo without war, but without any solutions an dofficial recognitiosn for said status quo, either. As its far too inpredictable how such a war would end (though my bet is on Russia who had a HUGE army ready), I prefer the second. Especially as IEG maps has a very nifty map of that:

    http://www.ieg-maps.uni-mainz.de/gif/d814_a3.htm

    (Yes, thats a Prussian Belgium, yes, thats a Russian [occupied] Saxony and yes, thats an Austrian Palatinate)
     
  7. Thande A special man who knows these things Donor

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    Those are my thoughts as well. It would be ironic if the peace turned into war (like all those threads about WW3 in 1945...) but even more interesting might be a tenuous, watchful peace that might explode at any moment. A 19th century full of major pan-European wars, not the century of peace that (at least from a British perspective) it seemed to be.
     
  8. Valdemar II Banned

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    Try to imagine Prussia with that kind of Industry.
     
  9. Susano Banned

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    And all Hail his Imperial Majesty, by the Grace of God Tsar of all Russia, King of Poland and Saxony, Lord of Jever!
     
  10. Valdemar II Banned

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    The Russians are going to trade Saxony for something, hmm imagine if they trade it for Galicia.
     
  11. Thande A special man who knows these things Donor

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    The Prussians really wanted Saxony, so maybe the Russians would trade it to them in exchange for more of pre-1770s Poland?
     
  12. Valdemar II Banned

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    Maybe the solution would be Galicia for Saxony for Belgium for Bayern
     
  13. Thande A special man who knows these things Donor

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    *makes funny face as he tries to work this out*
     
  14. Susano Banned

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    Austrian Glaicia goes to Russia, as compensation Austria gains Bavaria, as compensation for that Wittelsbach gains Belgium, and as compensation for that Prussia gains Saxony.

    However, while such a largescale landswap is funny in its own right, it just doesnt have the coolness of Russian Saxony and Prussian Belgium :D
     
  15. Thande A special man who knows these things Donor

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    Would an independent Belgium be acceptable in 1814? I thought everyone wanted to create powerful states on France's border in case the French got any funny ideas (hence Prussian Rhineland and Dutch Belgium).
     
  16. Geredis Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking the very same thing actually, about what the lack of a 100 Days (by whatever means) would do to teh War of 1812, and I basically see this happening:

    With the conclusion of the Napoleonic Wars basically, Britain can focus all its attention on the United States, and the War of 1812 goes either two ways from here (really three, but two for the sake of argument:

    The first is that the British pour more soldiers into the United States over the next year or two, and the war there becomes a long and protracted struggle. The British get tired and leave sometime between 1818 and 1821 I'll guess.

    The second option is that the Americans can't handle the influx of soldiers and as such the British are able to bring America to the table, and here they either demand New England be released from the US (if I remember right, just before the war New England wanted to secede over the embargos and trade restrictions). At this point New England either remains autonomous or basically gives up its sovereignty and is reincorporated into the British Empire as part of Canada.

    The third option is the same as the second, but the Empire basically reasserts its control over the Americas, and keeps a heavy garrison in the country. The colonies are then made Dominions when/if the rest of the British Colonies, but especially Canada, are released. In doing so, they'd probably actually release the two together as a single entity, giving the side-effect of an apparant Ameriwank with the super-sized "United States."
     
  17. Roberto FREE SUSAN O.

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    My first reaction is to say that somebody cleans it up.

    Anyway, Napoleon will be seen as a semi-mythical figure who would rather kill himself than be exiled away from his land.

    However, because of no Hundred Days, I don't think that France would be seen as much of a threate afterwards. The Congress of Vienna border changes won't reflect the need strong French neighbors as much as OTL.

    The US is in trouble. The British can afford to move huge amounts of soldiers to Canada and America. I doubt this'll be enough to fully re-absorb America, but the British could take Louisiana territory, the territory north of the Ohio river and west of the Appalachians, and possibly New England.
     
  18. Susano Banned

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    Well, true. And teh swaps too complciated to be realistic anyways.
     
  19. Nekromans Mernber

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    Wait. Something can be too complicated for Europe?
     
  20. fortyseven Mastermind

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