1810: Napoleon goes to Spain.

What if in 1810 Napoleon returns to Spain to finish the job now that he has cowed Austria? Can he finish the job in anyway?
 
What if in 1810 Napoleon returns to Spain to finish the job now that he has cowed Austria? Can he finish the job in anyway?

Hmmm. Boney seems to have scorned the British and dismissed The Peer as merely a Sepoy General, so I can just about see him making the same mistake that Massena made at Buçaco and assaulting the ridge. But the end result is still the same. Napoleon arrives at the Lines of the Torres Vedras, takes a look at the extent of the lines, swears a lot and then digs in on the knowledge that Lisbon is now impregnable.
 

Redhand

Banned
Being able to neutralize the Spanish by perhaps going after Cadiz and Gibraltar would do quite a bit. Despite the modern myths about the infallibility of the guerilla, any opposition would be quickly torn up by the Grande Armee in all of its strength. Torres Vedras would be too much for even Napoleon, but if he commits to it, he could certainly get the rest of the Peninsula under control and create a situation where Wellington would eventually face political pressure to actually go out and attack, in which case he would be defeated and badly.
 
Being able to neutralize the Spanish by perhaps going after Cadiz and Gibraltar would do quite a bit. Despite the modern myths about the infallibility of the guerilla, any opposition would be quickly torn up by the Grande Armee in all of its strength. Torres Vedras would be too much for even Napoleon, but if he commits to it, he could certainly get the rest of the Peninsula under control and create a situation where Wellington would eventually face political pressure to actually go out and attack, in which case he would be defeated and badly.

But Wellington wouldn't have needed to go out and attack - Napoleon would have faced the same problem at Torres Vedras that Massena faced. Starvation. The Portuguese Government obeyed orders and stripped the area North of the Lines of all the food there. Napoleon would have HAD to retire in the end as his army would have been starving.
As for taking Gib and Cadiz - sorry, the best chance of taking the latter was in 1809. Once there was a Spanish force in the city, supported and supplied by the Royal Navy, the position was too strong to be taken. The same with Gib. In fact the French never even tried to besiege Gib, especially after the British garrison destroyed the Spanish fortresses around the area.
 
Being able to neutralize the Spanish by perhaps going after Cadiz and Gibraltar would do quite a bit. Despite the modern myths about the infallibility of the guerilla, any opposition would be quickly torn up by the Grande Armee in all of its strength. Torres Vedras would be too much for even Napoleon, but if he commits to it, he could certainly get the rest of the Peninsula under control and create a situation where Wellington would eventually face political pressure to actually go out and attack, in which case he would be defeated and badly.

Well, taking Cadiz wouldn't be easy, with or without Napoleon, it's a matter of geography. For all practical effects, Cadiz was at the time an island city.

And regarding the guerrilla, of course they were not infalible nor invincible. Rather the opposite, they were an improvised answer to a totally unexpected situation. But their force didn't rely in their military might, but in the underlying political and sociological causes that made it possible. And those are a harder nut to crash, though not totally impossible. An armed victory over the guerrillas will only be a temporary respite unless the napoleonic regime tries to understand and deal in political terms with the feelings and aspirations of the spaniards and portuguese.
 
Well, taking Cadiz wouldn't be easy, with or without Napoleon, it's a matter of geography. For all practical effects, Cadiz was at the time an island city.

And regarding the guerrilla, of course they were not infalible nor invincible. Rather the opposite, they were an improvised answer to a totally unexpected situation. But their force didn't rely in their military might, but in the underlying political and sociological causes that made it possible. And those are a harder nut to crash, though not totally impossible. An armed victory over the guerrillas will only be a temporary respite unless the napoleonic regime tries to understand and deal in political terms with the feelings and aspirations of the spaniards and portuguese.

Agreed. And the thing is that as long as there is a standing army like Wellington's AND the guerrillas then the French are stuffed. Wellington could not have won without the impact that the guerrillas had on the French lines of supply. And the guerrillas could not have survived without Wellington forcing the French to always have concentrated standing armies.
 
Napoleon was always blithely dismissive of various Marshalls' attempts to point out to him that it was practically impossible for a French army to operate effectively on a foraging basis in the Peninsular, unlike Germany and central Europe. Perhaps his personally experiencing and directing an 1810 season of campaigning in Portugal and Spain whilst labouring under such supply constraints - and ultimately being stymied much as his subordinates were that year in OTL, might convince Napoleon to return in 1811 with the sort of meticulous system of depots, supply lines and baggage trains favoured by Wellington? That could make a world of difference.
 
Being able to neutralize the Spanish by perhaps going after Cadiz and Gibraltar would do quite a bit. Despite the modern myths about the infallibility of the guerilla, any opposition would be quickly torn up by the Grande Armee in all of its strength. Torres Vedras would be too much for even Napoleon, but if he commits to it, he could certainly get the rest of the Peninsula under control and create a situation where Wellington would eventually face political pressure to actually go out and attack, in which case he would be defeated and badly.
Umm... Logistics?

With the countryside in revolt, how is Napoleon feeding his armies in Spain?

Foraging parties get ambushed, the land is in ruins, peasant hide what little they grow.

No conceivable way Nappy can support a major army overland from France.

If he digs in front of the lines of Torres Vedras, his troops starve.
 
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