14th September 1981 End of an Era

Archibald

Banned
wow, so the queen was also targeted that year ? imagine the Pope and Reagan did not survived. What a shitty year that would have been !
 

JRScott

Banned
Hmm...

Charles would be in line for King, would he accept it. And if he does become King, would he have Diana crowned as Queen Consort like his grandfather or follow his Mother and she remain a Princess.

If he chose to abdicate his throne then Andrew would be next in line at this time, since William hasn't been born yet. However he's a bachelor at this time and keep in mind King George VI became King because his unwed brother abdicated.

Edward would be third in line and he too is a bachelor at this time.

Which means Anne would be in line with her husband Mark Philips as they are still married at this time.

My hunch would be that the Queen Mother would probably put pressure on Charles to accept the throne, as would his father. They would probably prefer Diana remain princess and not become Queen since much of the Royal Family was at least quietly against the marriage and didn't believe Charles was in love with Diana.

What does he have himself crowned as, I've always though King Arthur I might be nice, but he doesn't use his middle name much. Still in an effort to regain continuity and a sense of nationalism he could choose that.
 
Interesting what if

The supposed assassination attempt on Queen Elizabeth II took place in June 1981. This was less than 2 months before Prince Charles was due to marry Lady Diana Spencer.

That wedding would have had to be postponed.

Queen Elizabeth II's death would have been mourned in a way not disimilar to that of Diana, Princess of Wales, although the British public would have been more restrained, I think the grief would have been genuine.

Over time her reign would be viewed rather like her father's and she would possibly become one of those monarchs who are largely forgotten about - until someone makes a movie about it of course!

The Prince of Wales becomes King automatically on his mother's last breath. He is instantly hugely popular and enjoys enormous public sympathy, he marries Diana in the Autumn of 1981 and they are crowned in the Summer of 1982.

Following the murder of the late Queen, the Thatcher government comes under intense pressure, Thatcher orders intense security to surround senior members of the Royal Family. The ability of Charles and Diana to both conduct adulterous affairs is restricted. Charles and Diana become the most royal couple in living memory.

Media coverage about the Royal Family is largely controlled and criticism of them is deeply controversial, in the face of the murder of the Queen and the ongoing IRA threat, criticism of the monarchy is seen as an attack on the British state and therefore many scandals are brushed under the carpet or simply ignored.
 
Someone will have to resign as a result of this fo' sure, just because. Probably Whitelaw. Cue Maggie going off the rails earlier than OTL.
 
I do wonder how all this will affect Diana, if she becomes consort and then divorces Charles and dies in the car crash still does this end the Monarchy.
The monarchy was at it's lowest when she died. Maybe Charles abdicates when he marries Camila which would make William king or at least Andrew becomes Regent until William is ready maybe William is crowned IOTL queens diamond jubilee???
 

JRScott

Banned
Hmm the month before the wedding of Charles and Diana, I missed the shooting was actually in June :(, my bad.

My take then is that Charles and Diana would still be married on 29 July 1981. As part of the marriage Charles would be formerly made King of England after pressure from his grandmother and his father, and he then much to their chagrin would also as part of the ceremony have Diana crowned Queen consort.

The Royal Family had invested to much to postpone the wedding and Charles and Diana were riding high in the media at the time.
 
I do wonder how all this will affect Diana, if she becomes consort and then divorces Charles and dies in the car crash still does this end the Monarchy.
The monarchy was at it's lowest when she died. Maybe Charles abdicates when he marries Camila which would make William king or at least Andrew becomes Regent until William is ready maybe William is crowned IOTL queens diamond jubilee???

Thats not going to happen.

If they become King and Queen in 1981, their personal lives are going to become much more controlled, simply by the virtue that they are much busier and security is going to be much, much, much tighter.

I am not saying the marriage wont still have its problems but I think they will do a better job of keeping it out of the public domain.
 
Hmm the month before the wedding of Charles and Diana, I missed the shooting was actually in June :(, my bad.

My take then is that Charles and Diana would still be married on 29 July 1981. As part of the marriage Charles would be formerly made King of England after pressure from his grandmother and his father, and he then much to their chagrin would also as part of the ceremony have Diana crowned Queen consort.

The Royal Family had invested to much to postpone the wedding and Charles and Diana were riding high in the media at the time.

There isn't going to be a grand royal wedding, six weeks after the Queen has been murdered in public in front of television cameras beamed around the world.

Do you think if the Queen had been killed in March 2011, that the wedding of William and Catherine would have gone ahead 6 weeks later?

Following the death of a monarch, the Court observes 1 year of official mourning. No grand celebrations, I think Charles and Diana would have married quietly at Windsor in the Autumn of 1981 (a wedding similar to the one Charles eventually had with Camilla in 2005) and then they will be crowned together in the Summer of 1982.

Where do you get this idea of Charles having to be pressured into becoming King? He becomes King automatically the minute his mother's heart stops, havent you heard the saying "The King is dead, Long Live the King"? It really is just that simple, there is no deliberation period, its automatic, moreover Charles has been told since the minute he could think that he will be King, it is his destiny.
 

JRScott

Banned
There's been long speculation and some evidence that Charles doesn't actually want to be King is the reason. In the OTL given his divorce and remarriage there has also been speculation he'd abdicate in favor of William rather than take the throne himself. The situation is much more complex though if you move it back to 1981. Since neither him nor his brothers are married, though he does have a scheduled wedding. Anne's marriage is already starting to falter as well. Thus out of duty I believe he would take it then.

You could be right though that that would wait a year for the formal coronation/marriage celebration before the public, choosing a quieter marriage elsewhere. My thoughts though go back though to the Queen Mother and her determination during WWII. The family has broke with tradition many times, and thus I believe to help heal the nation and also to put forth a strong Commonwealth that they could conceivably still go through with the planned wedding at the 29 July 1981 date with coronations as part of the ceremony. The Queen Mother would be eager to put forth a strong face and strong front against such an act.

I agree that ultimately becoming King and Queen at this time, could potentially save their marriages, and thus Diana's life in the future. Though it is unlikely they'd have more issue than just William and Harry.
 
Just saying it isn't official that Charles would have stepped down and if the queen dropped dead now (god forbid) then he would become king and wouldn't pass the title over to William

There's been long speculation and some evidence that Charles doesn't actually want to be King is the reason. In the OTL given his divorce and remarriage there has also been speculation he'd abdicate in favor of William rather than take the throne himself. The situation is much more complex though if you move it back to 1981. Since neither him nor his brothers are married, though he does have a scheduled wedding. Anne's marriage is already starting to falter as well. Thus out of duty I believe he would take it then.

You could be right though that that would wait a year for the formal coronation/marriage celebration before the public, choosing a quieter marriage elsewhere. My thoughts though go back though to the Queen Mother and her determination during WWII. The family has broke with tradition many times, and thus I believe to help heal the nation and also to put forth a strong Commonwealth that they could conceivably still go through with the planned wedding at the 29 July 1981 date with coronations as part of the ceremony. The Queen Mother would be eager to put forth a strong face and strong front against such an act.

I agree that ultimately becoming King and Queen at this time, could potentially save their marriages, and thus Diana's life in the future. Though it is unlikely they'd have more issue than just William and Harry.
 
Willam wasn't born yet. If Charles abidacates then Andrew becomes king. He waites until William's birth then there is a baby king. Charles and the rest of the family have to do the ceremonial duties.
 
There's been long speculation and some evidence that Charles doesn't actually want to be King is the reason. In the OTL given his divorce and remarriage there has also been speculation he'd abdicate in favor of William rather than take the throne himself

OTOH, it has long been a part of Britain's popular culture that Charles is desperate to become monarch, and Charles himself has done nothing to pretend otherwise - the speculation comes mainly from the Diana-faction, principally Diana herself

in any event, were such doubts to exist in Charles mind, he would have to be pressured not to abdicate rather than to be pressured to become king - as heir apparent, his ascension to the throne is automatic, on his mother's last breath

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heir_apparent
 

JRScott

Banned
Didn't I point out earlier if he abdicated at this time it would fall to Andrew.......looks back at my first post yes. Ultimately I decided that under the circumstances at the time in 1981 I don't think there is much way he would not become King, as really there is no one else suitable in Elizabeth's children at the time even if he were to say be ready to abdicate.

(And yes I'm aware that even if he later abdicated he would be King upon her death, just like Edward VIII was King before he abdicated before his official coronation ceremony which just became King George VI's coronation. If Elizabeth II lives to be the same age as her mother did there is a good chance she outlives Prince Charles).

I still believe they would break from tradition though and have the wedding and coronation at the same time. The family has such a history of breaking tradition and the need to put a strong front on in light of the Soviet Union etc I think they'd break and have it plus the needs of the modern world run toward it almost.
 
He wouldn't abdicate... But I agree with you on the wedding part


Didn't I point out earlier if he abdicated at this time it would fall to Andrew.......looks back at my first post yes. Ultimately I decided that under the circumstances at the time in 1981 I don't think there is much way he would not become King, as really there is no one else suitable in Elizabeth's children at the time even if he were to say be ready to abdicate.

(And yes I'm aware that even if he later abdicated he would be King upon her death, just like Edward VIII was King before he abdicated before his official coronation ceremony which just became King George VI's coronation. If Elizabeth II lives to be the same age as her mother did there is a good chance she outlives Prince Charles).

I still believe they would break from tradition though and have the wedding and coronation at the same time. The family has such a history of breaking tradition and the need to put a strong front on in light of the Soviet Union etc I think they'd break and have it plus the needs of the modern world run toward it almost.
 

Orry

Donor
Monthly Donor

The person who suguests she was killed is tried...

First, it is high treason to "compass or imagine the death of our Lord the King, of our Lady his Queen, or of their eldest son and heir." The terms "compass or imagine" indicate the premeditation of a murder;

(It is interesting that at the time of her affair Diana and James Hewitt could technically been executed for High Treason.....)
 
Didn't I point out earlier if he abdicated at this time it would fall to Andrew.......looks back at my first post yes. Ultimately I decided that under the circumstances at the time in 1981 I don't think there is much way he would not become King, as really there is no one else suitable in Elizabeth's children at the time even if he were to say be ready to abdicate.

sorry if I missed it

I doubt Charles would choose to abdicate in the aftermath of his mother's assassination - under any circumstances short of choosing to marry a Catholic instead of Diana :eek: - the public image of the Royal family would be ruined by such acts, as would Charles' reputation

Ich dien [I serve] as the motto says :)
 
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