1402 AD Can the Roman Empire strike back?

In 20 July 1402 the Ottomans suffered a crushing defeat by Tamerlane's Mongols in the battle of Ankara and Sultan Beyazid I was captured and died shortly after... The Ottoman Empire was weakened significantly and a civil war erupted among Beyazid's sons...
Is it possible that Eastern Roman Emperor Manuel II had taken the chance and strike back at a weakened Ottoman Empire (with the help of Western powers of course)? A crusade had already failed in 1396 but Manuel who was on a tour to European courts could lure the Kings to help him? Or it is ASB?
 
He'd need that crusader help to start with, to make any serious inroads before the empire gets it shit back together is all about timing and force and a huge clusterfuck of a war with the Ottoman Empire is going to require a huge commitment from the Europeans.

A more extensive Timurid campaign in Turkey itself that diverts forces away from the western reaches of the empire and leaves the Ottomans scrambling to recover is probably the easiest way to accomplish this, it's not an issue of making the Byzantines stronger it's making the Ottomans weaker.
 
I don't know if he'd be able to organize any help. After all, despite his visits across Europe, the only aid he manages to get is six ships and 1,200 troops from France. I think France and England would be likely aids to the Emperor, by the Hundred Years War is about to break out into it's last stages. I guess if Henry IV put his differences aside with France, we could see an Anglo-French expedition. But... I dunno if it'd make any lasting impact. I could see Manuel II making a few gains against the Ottomans, then quickly lose them again once they get their house in order and Manuel's European friends are squabbling amongst themselves again and can't lift a finger to help.
 
I don't know if he'd be able to organize any help. After all, despite his visits across Europe, the only aid he manages to get is six ships and 1,200 troops from France. I think France and England would be likely aids to the Emperor, by the Hundred Years War is about to break out into it's last stages. I guess if Henry IV put his differences aside with France, we could see an Anglo-French expedition. But... I dunno if it'd make any lasting impact. I could see Manuel II making a few gains against the Ottomans, then quickly lose them again once they get their house in order and Manuel's European friends are squabbling amongst themselves again and can't lift a finger to help.

Manuel II could petition the Pope to force the Kings to help him... But there is a slight problem here... which Pope? The one in Rome or the other in Avignon? Maybe he could aply a "divide and conquer" policy on that matter... Aka supporting one of the 2 claimants in exchange with papal help... But still nobility and people of Constantinople wouldnt like that...
 
I think this is highly unlikely.
The empire itself is down on its knees and on the way out.
In Europe you have two popes, the 100 years war is right in the middle, Spain is having its own crusade, Hungary is without a king (Sigismund of Luxemburg was imprisoned), Russia had the mongols to deal with and Germany had the problem with the two popes and other reformers.
For all of them Constantinople was wide and of no intererst.
There is nobody who would be interested in helping the Byzantine Empire.
The only way Manuel II would get help is with money, money and more money.
All in all I say, bad timing for old Manuel.

Well, he could as the Mameluks - the enemy of my enemy - but that seems even more unlikely...
 
At most, see OTL, without the Ottomans bouncing back as they did so quickly.

The Empire just doesn't have the resources to do any more, nor is any European power interested in providing them (or able, maybe).
 
IIRC Manuel Chrysoloras is in Milan in 1402. If he can somehow convince the Duke to send aid to Constantinople we might see something.
 

Dirk_Pitt

Banned
I think there would have to be an earlier PoD, technically unrelated to Constantinople, you might have a shot. butterfly away the Black Death(maybe by butterflying a Mongol Empire, making it less successful(still conquers China but not much else) than OTL), make the Hundred Year's War less severe or nonexistent, you might stand a chance.
 
1402 AD

It's much too late. Maybe with western help, the Greeks could maintain themselves in Greece and the Balkans. But Asia Minor was permanently lost by this period. The Greek population had either left or been assimilated.
 
It's much too late. Maybe with western help, the Greeks could maintain themselves in Greece and the Balkans. But Asia Minor was permanently lost by this period. The Greek population had either left or been assimilated.

On the extremely unlikely chance that the Byzantines are able to acquire the military resources to reconquer Asia Minor/Anatolia, why is this such a big deal?
 
The Greeks did about as well as they could out of 1402, in the circumstances. Getting back Thessaloniki and its hinterland, a number of islands, and a big chunk of coastal Thrace is a pretty darn good deal. Plus, for a good ten to twenty years after Ankara, it was the Emperor who was technically the overlord and protector of the Sultan, and the Ottomans did treat Constantinople with genuine respect and deference.
 
The Greeks did about as well as they could out of 1402, in the circumstances. Getting back Thessaloniki and its hinterland, a number of islands, and a big chunk of coastal Thrace is a pretty darn good deal. Plus, for a good ten to twenty years after Ankara, it was the Emperor who was technically the overlord and protector of the Sultan, and the Ottomans did treat Constantinople with genuine respect and deference.

Makes one wonder how much - if you somehow pushed the Ottomans to total collapse - they could have done, even here.

Not sure how you could do that given that what Timur did was about as extreme as you can do.
 
Top