120 Million Citizens in European Countries

With the exception of Russia, and the exclusion of colonies, could a European country ultimately have 120 million or more citizens in its borders? Merged countries are allowed
 
Realistically it might get close if Germany wins WW1 and incorporate Poland. Later it could annex Austro-Bohemia when Austro-Hungary collapses.
 
Actually, the German Empire might be able to pull that off without WWI and without annexing even just Austria. Consider that OTL Germany's population is about 80 million - with enough immigration and natural population growth, 120+ million isn't too farfetched.
 
Napoleonic France in its 1812 frontiers without the Illyrian provinces would have something like this :
70 Mhab in France
10 in Belgium
16 in the Netherlands
1,9 Mhab in Romandic Switzerland
6,4 Mhab in Catalunha
4,5 Mhab in Piemonte-Aosta
4 Mhab at least in Rhenania
1,5 Mhab in Liguria
5,8 Mhab in Lazio.
 
Victorious German Empire in WWI plus a collapse of Austria-Hungary would have Germany annexing Austria and significant amounts of Bohemia. Combine that with other German gains (a bit of land in France, Luxembourg, maybe even the parts of Luxembourg which are now in Belgium), and it isn't too unreasonable for Germany to have over 120 million people, especially without a WWII.

A Poland-Lithuania wank might be able to do this too, assuming no Deluge and continued Polish success where Poland ends up with all modern Poland, all modern Ukraine, parts of western Russia (including Kaliningrad, obviously), Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, etc. 21st century Poland-Lithuania might be able to have over 120 million people, although that might be a bit more of stretch than Germany and would probably take more immigration.

But for a post-1900 POD, only the German Empire could really pull that off.
 
A successful Second Republic of Poland can do it. Combine a more successful Polish-Soviet war with avoiding WW2 and it's fairly easy to get 120 million plus. Even Poland avoiding WW2 (and having the interwar boarders we know from OTL) has a chance of getting there if the demographic winds blow in the right direction.

I did some population modeling for a TL with a PoD in 1919 that had no WW2, Poland and Germany were the two who in all variants of the model exceeded 100 million people by 2000 AD.

Turkey could also hit 120 million by the present if they had a better WW1 or a better post war period.

fasquardon
 
metalinvader665 said:
A Poland-Lithuania wank might be able to do this too, assuming no Deluge and continued Polish success where Poland ends up with all modern Poland, all modern Ukraine, parts of western Russia (including Kaliningrad, obviously), Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, etc. 21st century Poland-Lithuania might be able to have over 120 million people, although that might be a bit more of stretch than Germany and would probably take more immigration.

But for a post-1900 POD, only the German Empire could really pull that off.

Poland, Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania have around ninety million together. Each of these countries had suffered enormous losses in WWII and in the wars before; you wouldn't even need to wank a succesfull Poland_Lithuania to reach this kind of population. They would also have the land area to fit all those people in.


fasquardon said:
A successful Second Republic of Poland can do it. Combine a more successful Polish-Soviet war with avoiding WW2 and it's fairly easy to get 120 million plus. Even Poland avoiding WW2 (and having the interwar boarders we know

from OTL) has a chance of getting there if the demographic winds blow in the right direction.

I did some population modeling for a TL with a PoD in 1919 that had no WW2, Poland and Germany were the two who in all variants of the model exceeded 100 million people by 2000 AD.

Turkey could also hit 120 million by the present if they had a better WW1 or a better post war period.

fasquardon

I think it would be a stretch with II Polish Republic, I think without WWII sixty million is about the maximum
 
I think it would be a stretch with II Polish Republic, I think without WWII sixty million is about the maximum

If Poland doesn't take more of Ukraine and Belarus from the Soviets? Yes, a stretch, but not too much of one. The interwar Polish republic had some fairly robust demographics, comparing them to similar countries indicates that their population increasing 3-fold is plausible. A slightly better than 3-fold increase is definitely within the realms of possibility, though I am not sure how developed Poland would likely be in such a scenario - for the population to get that high might require a bit of a Poland-screw economically.

I'd say a realistic range without WW2 would be between 1.5 and 3.5 times the 1939 population (assuming the same borders).

Much depends on economic factors, how trade patterns in Europe evolve, how friendly other countries are to receiving Polish emigration and how open Poland is to receiving immigration.

fasquardon
 
3 times more seems extremly high for an european country...

Because East European countries had WW2 and then Stalinism happen to them. If those two events don't happen, or happen differently, the demographics of the continent would be radically different.

The scale of the catastrophe of WW2, in particular, was absolutely enormous. The breeding age Polish population (as well as every other country east of Germany) was gutted.

fasquardon
 
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