Lands of Red and Gold, Act II

It seems that the Kingdom of the Skin isn't the only Aururian society to adapt well to the new conditions following the Houtmanian exchange of animals, crops, and diseases.

They are doing better than most, better in fact than perhaps anyone except the Five Rivers and Nuttana. Some social qualities are just more fortunate than others when it comes to managing such plagues.

Of course, "better" is a very relative term when considering that they have lost close to half their population.

The Aururians are much more resilient than their closest analogues, the Amerindians. More so than I expected. But it seems like you've justified well why that would be the case.

The best single piece of good fortune than they have is one which is entirely a matter of geography. That is, they're far enough away that the plagues arrive spaced out over time rather than all at once, and they're also far enough away that Europeans have a great deal of trouble projecting power there.

Though unfortunately, these societies still have to endure the further deprivations which will cost them close to half of their remaining population.

BTW, the Anglo-Dutch Wars must be horrific ITTL, they were pretty bad as it was IOTL but going on into the 1680s? Wow. I'm glad the French are using the conflict to develop some trade opportunities in Aururia.

The Anglo-Dutch Wars are bad, but the main thing is that they started later than in OTL - 1660s rather than 1650s. So it will take a few wars before both sides can decide whether they can live with each other.

One doesnt think of lizards as being flatulent. But that might be my ignorance showing...

Few people ever want to place themselves close enough to find out, but it depends exactly what they've eaten; carnivores are generally more odiferous than omnivores, and ominivores than herbivores.

Seriously, though, this is just part of a naming convention: see below.

These year-naming conventions in Aururia remind me of the ones used in Discworld. It also saves Pterry from mentioning exactly which year (number-wise) things are set in. :D

It's possible that Sir Pterry served as slight inspiration for the kinds of names used.

However, there is a naming cycle in place. The Patjimunra years rotate through complementary cycles of nine aspects (of which it is perhaps more auspicious to be born in Fortune than Flatulence) and eleven totems (which don't have such a sense of hierarchy). A person would need to live out almost a full century to see the same year name come around again. Though they would see a fair amount of flatulence along the way.
 
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mojojojo

Gone Fishin'
That's certainly a possibility. There are other things it could indicate, too. (As with most of the foreshadowing, I try to keep things somewhat ambiguous.) At the very least, I can say that multilingualism is more expected than it is in, say, the anglosphere in OTL.

IIRC you gave us a hint of that in the Mighty Mouse Christmas special
 

mojojojo

Gone Fishin'
Can horse and cattle population grow this fast ?

Aururia had contact with Westerner only for 60-50 years, the number of ship sent to Aururia is limited, and ship hold can only carry so many animals.

Assuming 50-60 years, 12-24 ship to Aururia eash year, 2-3 ship carrying animals each year, 200-300 animal per ship :

60 x 3 x 300 = 50.000 animals carried from outside to Aururia during that time.

of those some would be mules or gelding, reducing further number of animals for breeding population. many fertile animals would also used for war and draft, farmer own single donkey wouldn't able to get breeding population, etc. Many would also died during drought, at war, etc.

So only 10.000 - 20.000 animals would be available for breeding. Population growth would make them ? 50.000-200.000 horse, donkey and cattle at 1690 ?

Aururian have several million farming population. wouldn't low animal population make them available only to elite/noble population instead prosperous farmer and herders ?

So when will camel,water buffalo,sheep and goats make their appearance in Australia?
 
I wonder if anyone will notice the similarity between Aururians and certain South Asian peoples?

And what conclusions will be drawn?
 
IIRC you gave us a hint of that in the Mighty Mouse Christmas special

The fact that Mighty Mouse's companions are named in two different languages?

A long way back in (IIRC) the second Christmas special, there was also a French-speaking character who had gone to university at the Panipat, and there was no hint that she had needed to speak English or Dutch to do so.

And more recently, there's also the fact that the statue of Wemba in the Panipat is labelled in five different languages.

So when will camel,water buffalo,sheep and goats make their appearance in Australia?

The first camels are either already in Aururia or soon will be. From the Portuguese along the northern fringes, don'tcherknow? They are not yet present in any large numbers, but there's a few of them used for exploration purposes.

Sheep are also present by 1670 in very small numbers, but not large ones yet. This is because in OTL, sheep only really started to be imported when there was both a lot of "empty" land (i.e. the people who thought they owned it died of diseases who were pushed out), and a shortage of wool closer to home.

While the population decline has already been severe, the lands are not as empty in OTL, and there's also much less of an empty market for wool. There are of course some marginal agricultural lands which have been abandoned due to the plagues. But for now those lands are being used to raise cattle rather than sheep, since cattle give more meat, which is locally useful (with no real export market for wool).

Similar things apply to goats. I'm not sure yet when water buffalo will put in an appearance, but the Portuguese will probably be to blame when it happens.

I wonder if anyone will notice the similarity between Aururians and certain South Asian peoples?

The irony is that ITTL, the Aururian caste system will be seen as the more rigid one. Caste systems of various forms have showed up in quite a few countries throughout history. But they are rarely as rigid as the one which is associated with India today - and in truth, the Indian one was not that rigid. The four (or five) caste broad system was a mostly theoretical overview; what happened more was that there were a great many local communities (hundreds, or thousands).

In India in OTL, it took the British coming and misunderstanding the system to turn it into more of a rigid caste system (and even then, people weren't competely fixed in place). It's been said that the caste system of Japan - which was less rigid - would have been turned into a fixed caste system if a nineteenth century colonial power had somehow taken control of the country, misunderstood what was going on, and imposed a fixed system.

So ITTL, the Patjimunra caste system will be seen as the world's most rigid, and other caste systems as being more complex.

In other aspects (e.g. enjoying spicy food), well, the Aururians do have some things in common with South Asian peoples, but that's not unique to those groups. Lots of peoples like spicy food. :D

And what conclusions will be drawn?

There will be all sorts of wild speculation about contact between Aururians and South Asians, and some other even more crank speculation about contact with Egypt (pyramid), Mesoamerica (pyramids and big stone heads), Easter Island (big stone heads), and various other things. Things will get more entertaining when people realise the genetic connection between (some) Aururian peoples and South Asian peoples, but in general, more reputable science will think that the resemblances are just due to common trends in human development, not any significant ongoing contact.
 
The best single piece of good fortune than they have is one which is entirely a matter of geography. That is, they're far enough away that the plagues arrive spaced out over time rather than all at once, and they're also far enough away that Europeans have a great deal of trouble projecting power there.

Though unfortunately, these societies still have to endure the further deprivations which will cost them close to half of their remaining population.


.

Well, 75% is better than 90%, right? :(
 
Well, 75% is better than 90%, right? :(

Horrific as it sounds to say it, yes, it does make them a lot better off.

Some societies will, for various reasons I've touched on before, not do as badly as that - but it's still a depressing prospect.
 
There will be all sorts of wild speculation about contact between Aururians and South Asians, and some other even more crank speculation about contact with Egypt (pyramid), Mesoamerica (pyramids and big stone heads), Easter Island (big stone heads), and various other things. Things will get more entertaining when people realise the genetic connection between (some) Aururian peoples and South Asian peoples, but in general, more reputable science will think that the resemblances are just due to common trends in human development, not any significant ongoing contact.

I'd love to watch an episode of Ancient Aliens or whatever the equivalent show is from this TL.
 

mojojojo

Gone Fishin'
Cool! So the Butjupa and Yalatji are in some ways analogues of the Plains Indians who adapted new Old World animals to their way of life...

Given how devastated Native Americans in this TL were by the extra groups of plagues, do Plains indian horse nomads even exist in this TL?
 
Given how devastated Native Americans in this TL were by the extra groups of plagues, do Plains indian horse nomads even exist in this TL?

Some of them exist, yes. The death toll has been even higher than in OTL - macabre an idea as that is - but there are still survivors. Quite possibly a few smaller groups who survived in OTL lost so many more people that their societies disintegrated and the survivors joined other groups. But at least some groups survived.

It's also possible that the survivors will have more breathing room. The great flood of European immigration has been delayed due to the plagues. Different political realities mean that the European nations which provided the biggest source of immigrants to North America - i.e. those in the British Isles - don't have easy access to the interior. The Dutch are sitting on the potential Erie Canal route. The French are sitting on the mouth of the Mississippi. Which state controls the St Lawrence - Great Lakes route has not yet been specified, but it probably won't be the English or Scottish. So migration into the interior will be delayed.
 

mojojojo

Gone Fishin'
Some of them exist, yes. The death toll has been even higher than in OTL - macabre an idea as that is - but there are still survivors. Quite possibly a few smaller groups who survived in OTL lost so many more people that their societies disintegrated and the survivors joined other groups. But at least some groups survived.

It's also possible that the survivors will have more breathing room. The great flood of European immigration has been delayed due to the plagues. Different political realities mean that the European nations which provided the biggest source of immigrants to North America - i.e. those in the British Isles - don't have easy access to the interior. The Dutch are sitting on the potential Erie Canal route. The French are sitting on the mouth of the Mississippi. Which state controls the St Lawrence - Great Lakes route has not yet been specified, but it probably won't be the English or Scottish. So migration into the interior will be delayed.
So would these Plains Indians end up retaining more of their traditional culture/religion and independence than their counterparts in our TL did?
 

The Sandman

Banned
Well, 75% is better than 90%, right? :(

Horrific as it sounds to say it, yes, it does make them a lot better off.

Some societies will, for various reasons I've touched on before, not do as badly as that - but it's still a depressing prospect.

Especially since the die-off is happening in stages and at least in part from depressed birth-rates, wars and other secondary effects, spread out over 50-100 years, rather than being compressed into a single long wave of epidemics that leaves no time to rebuild or prepare for future disaster.

I take it the Patjimunra are likely to be a target of the nomad hordes developing to their north? They seem ideal for it.
 
So would these Plains Indians end up retaining more of their traditional culture/religion and independence than their counterparts in our TL did?

Independence/sovereignty is a much murkier concept in this timeline than it is in OTL, so that's not an easy question to answer.

In terms of broader religion, culture and language, there will be a broad range of outcomes when compared to OTL. Some will be more widespread, some will be less.

Those who were near the eastern or southern seaboard will, sadly, mostly do worse. They're close enough to get hit by the extra epidemics early and often. It's already been shown that the Congxie in large part displace groups such as the Creeks and Cherokee.

Those who live further inland will, possibly, be better off.

Especially since the die-off is happening in stages and at least in part from depressed birth-rates, wars and other secondary effects, spread out over 50-100 years, rather than being compressed into a single long wave of epidemics that leaves no time to rebuild or prepare for future disaster.

This is a big part of things, yes. It allows at least some societies a chance to survive. Not a large one, perhaps, but the chance exists.

I take it the Patjimunra are likely to be a target of the nomad hordes developing to their north? They seem ideal for it.

The Patjimunra are one promising target, certainly. But the funny thing is that the horse nomads have several promising targets. The Kiyungu just to their east, the gemfields to their north, the gem highlands to the south-east (and possibly Daluming beyond), the Patjimunra further south-east, and the wealthiest but most populous Five Rivers is to the south.

Which of those targets will they pursue? Several, probably. Which of those is seen as the most promising is harder to say.
 
Lands of Red and Gold #89: Words Yet To Come
Lands of Red and Gold #89: Words Yet To Come

“The Tjagarr Panipat was first gathered in Tapiwal [Robinvale] in 1646 as a colloquy of physicians to assess and consider the first typhus epidemic to reach the Five Rivers. Initially the term Tjagarr Panipat referred to the conference rather than the location, with several such colloquies being called in other places in the Five Rivers over the next two decades to assess disease outbreaks.

The Tjagarr Panipat became a permanent institution under the auspices of Lopitja Dalwal [Lopitja the White]. In 1666, he donated his family’s residence in Tapiwal to serve as a permanent library for physicians’ texts, and to provide a meeting hall for physicians to discuss and review cases. That building became the first great hall of the Tjagarr Panipat. It was later demolished to be replaced by the Grand White Hall, which still stands today as one of the central buildings of the Tjagarr Panipat.”
- From the English-language version of a plaque which stands near the entrance to the main Tjagarr Panipat compound

* * *

“The Kurnawal are in rebellion. The Yadji armies are busy in the east. If we declare war on the Yadji now, we will have victory over them. We just must ensure that we do not have complete victory.”
- Lopitja the White (son of Wemba of the Whites), addressing the Tjibarri Council in the Hall of Rainbows, 1673

* * *

“The League’s pleasure, glory and profit are all more advanced by sugar than by any other commodity we deal in or produce, gold and jeeree [lemon tea] not excepted.”
- Titore, An Account of the Growth of the Nuttana, 1715

* * *

“The seemingly endless bounty of Aururia provided a lesson to those who had the wit to learn: mining gold is not the same as mining money.”
- Archibald Simpson-Green: The Foundations of the Modern World, ch. 6 “A Surfeit of Currency”

* * *

“But since the time of Queen Elizabeth there has been only a continual fluctuation in the conduct of England, with which one could not concert measures for two years at a time.”
- Johan de Witt; 1659

* * *

“The Devil hath made too many Dutchmen.”
- William Cavendish, 1st Duke of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, and former Duke Regent of England, 1665, speaking after the successful Dutch raid on the Royal Navy anchorage at Harwich

* * *

“The Fronde began by breaking windows, but ended by breaking Liberty.”
- Charles de Batz

* * *

“England: the land where every man has as much democracy as he can afford.”
- Antimony Bryant, 1871

* * *

“The history of seventeenth-century Central Europe can be summed up as follows: everybody hates Poland.”
- Lars Løvschøld, The Development of Early Modern Europe

* * *

“In the ride, there is truth.”
- Attributed to the Hunter

* * *

“The Sawtooth revolutionaries speak of making one nation of many. What a travesty of absurdism! Mere vapid slogans cannot unmake the natural order. The nation is the sum of the character and the history of each man. It cannot be altered by a storm of words and a new rectangle of dyed cloth. A new government can declare a new state; it cannot declare a new nation.”
- Lincoln Derwent, from a letter written to Aurelia Swan

* * *

“What misbegotten declaration, that dishonourable fiction propounded in the Commonwealth that all men are equal before the law! The Revolution established that a man could not claim privilege by right of birth, but replaced that with privilege by right of gold. For the fundamental truth is that an advocate, by endless rhetoric, is permitted to rewrite the law in favour of privilege. Just as gravity distorts space, so gold distorts the law. A black hole is where light dies; a gold hole is where justice dies.”
- “Steelfoot” Barker, Battle Call

* * *

“Whereby it is confirmed by His Majesty Nyiragal that the laws of the League [Nuttana] stand in concert with the laws of the land. In all judgements pertaining to men of the League, His Majesty or his chosen judge will take counsel together with a representative of the Nuttana, to jointly determine the proper course.”
- From the treaty signed in 1658 between the Nuttana and the kingdom of Ngutti [Yamba], a breakaway state formed during the Daluming civil war

* * *

“I claim this land in the name of the League and the Six Lords.”
- Karnama Nyawala, after planting the Coral Flag on what he called the Bleak Islands [Kerguelen Islands] in 1692

* * *

“Easy to change a flag. Hard to change nationality.”
- Myumitsi Makan, better known in English as Solidarity Jenkins

* * *

“From Valk Land [Eyre Peninsula] in the west to Kuki Airani [Cook Islands] in the east, from Papua in the north to Maungahuka [Auckland Islands] in the south, nowhere could be considered safe from Pakanga [Maori] raids.”
- Claude M. Overton, A Brief History of Merchant Venturers

* * *

“This much I desire to accomplish in my life: to ride my horse into the sea to north and east and south, and know that I have brought harmony to all the lands through which I have ridden.”
- The Hunter

* * *

“In a free government, we are told, the rulers are the humble servants and the people the proud sovereigns. Which means that under a free government, a man is free only to agree with the people.”
- “Steelfoot” Barker, An Enemy Called Freedom

* * *

“Democracy bestows neither liberty nor sovereignty. If a government created by popular vote determines to tax a man of half his property, how is that different to a bandit robbing a man of half of what he owns?”
- Elliott Moreton (agitator and traitor, or revolutionary and martyr, depending on the perspective of the author), during a speech to the Arborist League

* * *

“The reasons for slavery [1] are deed or contract; the former for war or punishment, the latter for term, life or blood. Plirites may be enslaved for punishment, term or life, while non-believers may be enslaved for any reason. The Flesh-Eaters [Solomon Islanders] are like other non-believers, whether they are Maori, Kiyungu, Bungudjimay, Christian, Motuan [Papuan], or any others who adhere to paganism and do not embrace the Seven-fold Path... This means there is no difference between the non-believers in this respect. Whoever is enslaved in a condition of non-belief, it is proper to own him, whosoever he may be, and no matter whether he may voluntarily embrace the Seven-fold Path afterward. The condition of slavery in the non-believer will continue in the believer, even in the blood if that is in the contract... But where manumission has been granted to a Plirite slave of the blood, it is not proper for any punishment to restore slavery of the blood to that Plirite or his progeny, except where they have forsaken the true path.”
- Wolya gan Moning [Wolya son of Moning], legal interpretation, c. 1696. Wolya gan Moning was a Nuttana priest and jurist, expressing his views on the emerging contract law and practices of Nuttana slavery.

* * *

“Winning a popular vote does not make a tyrant legitimate. It merely makes him a popular tyrant.”
- Antimony Bryant, 1894

* * *

“Old evils never die, they just take on new guises.”
- “Steelfoot” Barker, Battle Call

* * *

“The secret ballot is a licence for men to harm their fellows. It is a breach of solidarity.”
- Spencer Jackson

* * *

“In the world: order and discord. In the mind should be only order.”
- Pinjarra, Aururian social philosopher (among many other things)

* * *

“As the blue gum is cut down but regrows, so must a man rise again after defeat.”

“That which is sprung from the earth will be returned to the earth.”

- From Oora Gulalu [The Endless Road], a text composed in Tjibarr in the fifteenth century, and widely respected by both Plirite and Tjarrling believers

* * *

“Politics consists more in profiting from favourable circumstances than preparing them in advance.”
- Maximilian III, Grand Duke of Bavaria (among other titles), speaking on the eve of the Nine Years’ War

* * *

“Bohemia is the portion of the Habsburg heritage to which we have the strongest claim and which is most suitable for the house of Wettin. It is consonant with justice to maintain one’s rights and to seize the opportunity of the death of Leopold II to take possession. The superiority of our troops, the promptitude with which we can set them in motion, in a word the clear advantage we have over our neighbours, gives us in unexpected emergency an infinite superiority over all other powers of Europe. If we wait until Sweden and Bavaria start hostilities we could not prevent the aggrandizement of the latter which is wholly contrary to our interests. If we act at once, we keep her in subjection...”
- Christian Albert I, Elector of Saxony, memorandum, 1740

* * *

“Now at last we can reveal ourselves to the Raw Men.”
- Gurragang son of Lopitja (grandson of Wemba of the Whites)

* * *

[1] The Nuttana word translated as slavery includes all forms of indentured labour, including that voluntarily entered into for a term of years.

* * *

Thoughts?
 
“The history of seventeenth-century Central Europe can be summed up as follows: everybody hates Poland.”
- Lars Løvschøld, The Development of Early Modern Europe

Evil Poland, or just terribly inconvenient Poland? :)


“Democracy bestows neither liberty nor sovereignty. If a government created by popular vote determines to tax a man of half his property, how is that different to a bandit robbing a man of half of what he owns?”
- Elliott Moreton (agitator and traitor, or revolutionary and martyr, depending on the perspective of the author), during a speech to the Arborist League

Ah, so Libertarians exist in this TL also. :p

Fascinating hints here! My one regret is how long some of them will take to come to fruition.

Bruce
 
“But since the time of Queen Elizabeth there has been only a continual fluctuation in the conduct of England, with which one could not concert measures for two years at a time.”
- Johan de Witt; 1659

* * *

“The Devil hath made too many Dutchmen.”
- William Cavendish, 1st Duke of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, and former Duke Regent of England, 1665, speaking after the successful Dutch raid on the Royal Navy anchorage at Harwich
War!
Hmm, echoes of the Medway Raid, I guess?

Including a version of Batten's OTL quote: "I think the Devil shits Dutchmen".
“Now at last we can reveal ourselves to the Raw Men.”
- Gurragang son of Lopitja (grandson of Wemba of the Whites)
Let the Jedi beware, Darth Gurragang is on the loose!

Thoughts?
As already mentioned: foreshadowing! Foreshadowing everywhere!
 
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