Most important military or naval victory by country?

TFSmith121

Banned
True; my guess was simply as an action where the Chinese bested

Well in terms of historical importance for China I'm not sure it meant anything... since they still got defeated in the next Anglo-French attempt, and so lost the Second Opium War.

If we are to judge the importance of Chinese battles vs. how they performed against the West I'd say some of the battles in the Sino-French War (indeed, the entire Sino-French War) should be seen as more important.

So far the PLAN seems happy on naming ships after geographical features, but if they ever change their naming conventions I bet anything related to the 'Century of Humiliation' will be the first ones to be chosen.

True; my guess was simply as an action where the Chinese bested a Western naval force would be appealling...

Best,
 
Probably Solferino for Italy. Calatafimi is more symbolic despite its limited military import (narrative regarding a ragtag bunch of enthusiastic patriots dispersing supposedly well-armed force of professionals, let alone that Solferino was largely a French accomplishment), and Volturno is where Italy as a state was actually made, but Solferino was the deciding point in the whole set of events that shaped Italian Unification.
Italy obviously did not exist in the 18th century but Siege of Turin in 1706 would be remembered as a defining point for the future national role of House Savoy and a "national" success (nevermind it was nothing of the sort) so it may count. Defeat there could have impacted the future course of Piedmontese history significantly. Napoleon's campaign was also incredibly important for Italian history, but it hardly counts for an Italian victory (even less so than the Second War of Independence).

EDIT: it is useful to note that Italian military historical memory tends to focus on defeats much more, maybe because there's plenty, as opposed to major victories (Garibaldi's expeditions being notable as nation-shaping exceptions).

EDIT II: I can't recall any major Italian naval success in pre-1900 that warrants the import suggested by the OP, unless one counts Lepanto, where the Italians states acted together and made the majority of the fleet.
 
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Considering the distance and time period, no. Decisive for Britain, Europe , Mediterranean, Atlantic and Canada, but not so for the Pacific and Indian oceans in the Napoleonic Wars.

Apologies to the forum, the OP, and you, since my point is for post-1900.

But for Australia? Naval: Coral Sea. There was an Australian cruiser force under Crace there providing a lot of the Allies' pitiful surface strength.

Land: Kokoda Trail, an all Australian operation save for small contributions by the US 5th Air Force (Along with greater ones of course by the RAAF and I think the RNZAF).

Between these two victories, it ended any threat to Port Moresby, and by extension air attack threat to NE Australia. Huge for Australian morale. As was the later victory in the Solomons (aided by the Australian Coast Watchers). When the US 1st Marine Division was withdrawn and sent to Australia for desperately needed R & R, they were greeted as national heroes.:cool::)
 
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TFSmith121

Banned
Cocos (Keeling) Island?

Apologies to the forum, the OP, and you, since my point is for post-1900.

But for Australia? Naval: Coral Sea. There was an Australian cruiser force under Crace there providing a lot of the Allies' pitiful surface strength.

Land: Kokoda Trail, an all Australian operation save for small contributions by the US 5th Air Force (Along with greater ones of course by the RAAF and I think the RNZAF).

Between these two victories, it ended any threat to Port Moresby, and by extension air attack threat to NE Australia. Huge for Australian morale. As was the later victory in the Solomons. When the US 1st Marine Division was withdrawn and sent to Australia for desperately needed R & R, they were greeted as national heroes.:cool::)


Sydney's victory?

Best,
 
Sydney's victory?

Best,

Not exactly a victory of shattering import to Australia's future, whatever the bragging rights.

The WWII Sydney's loss?:eek: I mean, to a merchant cruiser? If the captain of the HMAS Sydney had survived, he probably would have been court-martailed.:mad:
 

TFSmith121

Banned
I meant the 1914 victory over

Not exactly a victory of shattering import to Australia's future, whatever the bragging rights.

The WWII Sydney's loss?:eek: I mean, to a merchant cruiser? If the captain of the HMAS Sydney had survived, he probably would have been court-martailed.:mad:


I meant the 1914 victory over Emden; something of the foundational moment for the RAN, akin to Bonhomme Richard vs Serapis for the US...

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I meant the 1914 victory over Emden; something of the foundational moment for the RAN, akin to Bonhomme Richard vs Serapis for the US...

Best,

I knew that. I didn't know about its political significance for Oz.

And for all the bragging rights over the Bonhomme Richard beating the Serapis, what American students are NOT taught is that by the end of 1777 the woeful Continental Navy was destroyed by the Royal Navy. Say what you will about any other military or political policies carried out by Britain in the ARW, they stuck with the blockade of the Colonies to the exclusion of all else to the end of the war.

The US Navy does not consider its true founding to have begun until the late 1790s, with the launching of the super-frigate Constitution class.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Understood, but there are "tradition" issues at play;

I knew that. I didn't know about its political significance for Oz.

And for all the bragging rights over the Bonhomme Richard beating the Serapis, what American students are NOT taught is that by the end of 1777 the woeful Continental Navy was destroyed by the Royal Navy. Say what you will about any other military or political policies carried out by Britain in the ARW, they stuck with the blockade of the Colonies to the exclusion of all else to the end of the war.

The US Navy does not consider its true founding to have begun until the late 1790s, with the launching of the super-frigate Constitution class.

Preble's boys were the first generation of professionals, but many of them had Continental Navy experience (Preble, Truxtun, Barry, and Dale, for example; Dale actually served with Jones at Flamborough Head), and Jones' example was held as the ideal for the new USN.

1777? Not quite...Flamborough Head was in September, 1779.

Randolph, Raleigh, Boston, Trumbull, Providence, Warren, and Alliance were all active in 1778 or later, including some cruises as late as 1783; Alliance captured Trepassey and Atalanta in 1781, for example. See:

http://www.history.navy.mil/DANFS/a7/alliance-i.htm

Trust me, the Continental Navy's heritage is seen as part and parcel of the USN; I spent more than a few years in blue...the USN has named five ships after Jones, for example, as well as several after Ranger, BonHomme Richard, and/or their peers (men and ships) from the Continental navy and marines.

Best,

alliance-i.jpg
 
Battles concerning the US have already been discussed, so I'll just focus on Korea, although it technically isn't "my" nation per se.

Before 1000: Battle of Maeso Fortress (675), which occurred during the Silla-Tang Wars (670-6) soon after Goguryeo's collapse in 668. Although Silla had managed to wrest former Baekje territories away from the Tang by 671, China had managed to quell resistance within what had been Goguryeo by 673, forcing the former allies to clash north of the Han River for control over the peninsula. The ensuing Korean victory, along with a naval one within Gibeolpo in the following year, cemented Silla's possessions south of the Taedong River, and forced the Tang to withdraw from the peninsula altogether, along with temporarily severing all diplomatic relations between the two for half a century. Silla's independence also indirectly allowed Balhae to be established in 698 after the Battle of Cheonmun-ryeong, extending Korea's presence in Manchuria for more than two centuries.

After 1000: Battle of Myeongyang (1597), during the second invasion of the Imjin War (1592-8), in which Yi Sun-shin defeated the Japanese navy despite being outnumbered 25:1. Only one division of 13 ships had survived the catastrophic defeat at Chilcheollyang under Won Gyun a few months earlier, and the same ships were used again at Myeongyang under Admiral Yi, who took advantage of the strong currents in the area to score a decisive victory. This battle convinced the Ming to retain its troops within the peninsula, and prevented Hideyoshi from retaining a stable hold on Korea for the second time, causing his troops to withdraw in the following year soon after his death. The Japanese would not set foot on Korea again for 300 years, when it began to gradually intervene in Korean affairs in the late 19th century and eventually annexed Joseon in 1910.

There were other important victories, but they tended to be collective ones, and each of them, when analyzed separately, had much less bearing in the long term.
 
Saving the Land of Oz

Two battles:

For Munkinland:
Dorothy dropping her house on the Wicked Witch of the East

For the Emerald City:
Dorothy splashing water on the Wicked Witch of the West

Whoops! Wrong forum!:eek::D
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Is Yi Sun-shin the "turtle ships" battle?

Battles concerning the US have already been discussed, so I'll just focus on Korea, although it technically isn't "my" nation per se.

Before 1000: Battle of Maeso Fortress (675), which occurred during the Silla-Tang Wars (670-6) soon after Goguryeo's collapse in 668. Although Silla had managed to wrest former Baekje territories away from the Tang by 671, China had managed to quell resistance within what had been Goguryeo by 673, forcing the former allies to clash north of the Han River for control over the peninsula. The ensuing Korean victory, along with a naval one within Gibeolpo in the following year, cemented Silla's possessions south of the Taedong River, and forced the Tang to withdraw from the peninsula altogether, along with temporarily severing all diplomatic relations between the two for half a century. Silla's independence also indirectly allowed Balhae to be established in 698 after the Battle of Cheonmun-ryeong, extending Korea's presence in Manchuria for more than two centuries.

After 1000: Battle of Myeongyang (1597), during the second invasion of the Imjin War (1592-8), in which Yi Sun-shin defeated the Japanese navy despite being outnumbered 25:1. Only one division of 13 ships had survived the catastrophic defeat at Chilcheollyang under Won Gyun a few months earlier, and the same ships were used again at Myeongyang under Admiral Yi, who took advantage of the strong currents in the area to score a decisive victory. This battle convinced the Ming to retain its troops within the peninsula, and prevented Hideyoshi from retaining a stable hold on Korea for the second time, causing his troops to withdraw in the following year soon after his death. The Japanese would not set foot on Korea again for 300 years, when it began to gradually intervene in Korean affairs in the late 19th century and eventually annexed Joseon in 1910.

There were other important victories, but they tended to be collective ones, and each of them, when analyzed separately, had much less bearing in the long term.

Given the build-up of the ROKN, seems like either the admiral, the battle, or both would be honored sooner rather than later.

Best,
 
Given the build-up of the ROKN, seems like either the admiral, the battle, or both would be honored sooner rather than later.

Best,

No turtle ships were used in that battle, and all of the Korean ships were panokseon, as there was no choice but to use the ships that had fled from Chilcheollyang.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by being honored in the future. Admiral Yi had already been honored in 2003, along with other rulers, generals, and admirals, while other ships have been named after important places, not battle sites, as attempting to identify the most important of the latter would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, as the list would be extensive. The two battles that I mentioned only make up a small fraction of important Korean victories, and I could argue that collective victories under Goguryeo and/or Goryeo, both of which fought extensive offensive and defensive battles for centuries, indirectly allowed Silla and Joseon, respectively, to win the two that were mentioned.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Okay, thanks. Hadn't looked at Janes for a while

No turtle ships were used in that battle, and all of the Korean ships were panokseon, as there was no choice but to use the ships that had fled from Chilcheollyang.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by being honored in the future. Admiral Yi had already been honored in 2003, along with other rulers, generals, and admirals, while other ships have been named after important places, not battle sites, as attempting to identify the most important of the latter would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, as the list would be extensive. The two battles that I mentioned only make up a small fraction of important Korean victories, and I could argue that collective victories under Goguryeo and/or Goryeo, both of which fought extensive offensive and defensive battles for centuries, indirectly allowed Silla and Joseon, respectively, to win the two that were mentioned.

Okay, thanks. Hadn't looked at Janes for awhile

Best,
 

CalBear

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The list of American victories needs to have a a couple more additions.

Most important addition would be the Battle of Chapultepec. resulting in the U.S. victory in the Mexican American War. The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo is the source document for 10 U.S. states.

Battle of Manila Bay. Established the U.S. as a serious power entering the 20th Century.

Battle of New Orleans 1862. Denied the Confederacy use of the Mississippi as an export port. Realistically killed the CSA economy.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Fair enough; I was trying to stick to "one per century"

The list of American victories needs to have a a couple more additions.

Most important addition would be the Battle of Chapultepec. resulting in the U.S. victory in the Mexican American War. The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo is the source document for 10 U.S. states.

Battle of Manila Bay. Established the U.S. as a serious power entering the 20th Century.

Battle of New Orleans 1862. Denied the Confederacy use of the Mississippi as an export port. Realistically killed the CSA economy.

Chapultepec (eventually) forced the Moderado faction to agree to Trist's terms, undoubtedly, but it is also worth pointing out the US was in control of its actual war aims by the tiem the Treaty of Cahuenga was signed in January, 1847; whatever happened in "Old Mexico" (for lack of a better term) Texas, New Mexico, California, and all the Mexican territory eventually ceded through Guadalupe Hidalgo was under US control, and beyond any hope of redemption, given the state of Mexico in 1847.

Manila Bay or Santiago? Manila Bay was a logistical feat, but Santiago and the Cuban and Puerto Rican expeditionary forces actually faced tougher opposition.

New Orleans was important, I agree, but the rebels were still fighting 36 months later.

Best,
 
We French seem to remember our defeats more fondly than our victories. Anyway :

19th Century : I'm not a big fan of Austerlitz, even if old Bonapartists groaned here because there was no celebration in 2005. For me it's only a victory in a series of some years that ended in defeat. I would rather say the taking of Algiers, 1830 : colonial expansion starting again.

18th Century : Valmy, yes.

17th Century : I suppose contemporaries would have said Rocroi 1643, mostly by coincidence (the first victory under Louis XIV's reign, and the huge propaganda that followed) but I think the fall of La Rochelle, 1626 had much more political importance (the beginning of the end for French Protestants as a power).

16th Century : Marignano 1515 ? Again, a victory in a brief period that ended in defeat. Rather Ivry 1590 ("Rally to my white panache!"), a decisive step in Henry IV's march to power.

15th Century : Orleans 1429 is a must-be.

14th Century : a victory ? Probably Cocherel 1364. Defeating a rebellious vassal only some kilometers away from Paris was quite a thing.

13th Century : Bouvines 1214, the Kingdom beats the Empire.
 
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