TL-191: Filling the Gaps

Even thought we haven't had an update in a while, I might as well ask. Craigo are you still allowing people to write their own Filing the Gaps articles provided they meet the guidelines you laid out a while back? I my self have allot of ideas, including those for the requests. :D

Also, what happened during the Russian Civil War exactly. I image it would be similar, yet a different then OTL. I imagine the reds having more hiccups and the whites less divisions. Would there be any forgein intervention like IOTL? With that said, I can mabye see Alexander Kolchak or Anton Deniken being Prime Minister of Russia after the civil war, but who would be Russia's PM during GWII? Barorn Wrangel mabye? He was a reactionary, and Russia was just that after the war. On that note, I think GWII era Russia is fascist-eqsue in the sense that it is ultra conservative and nationalositc populist. Kinda fascist but not officially like in France and the CSA. I guess that's mabye what Turledove what trying to convey.

Well that was a mouthfull. :p Anyway some articles I'd like to write, some being past requests.

Bios:

Edward R. Murrow
Oliver Hardy
John Nance Gardner
Lyndon B. Johnson
Charles de Gaulle
Hendrick Verwoard
Subhash Chandra Bose
Getililo Vargas
Jean Paul Sarte
Eugene P. Tallmadge
Roman Ungern Von Sternberg
Allen W. Barkely
Ionnis Metaxis
Otto Von Hapsburg
Jack Reed
Ibn Suad
Anton Mussert
Leon Degrelle
Pierre Laval
Micheal Collins

Country's:

China
Egypt
Greece
Mongolia
Georgia
Azerbaijan
Finland
Ireland
Arabian states
The German puppet states

Hey, I wasn't kidding when I said I had allot of ideas. :p
 
List of Presidents of CSA

Speculation of Confederate Presidents:
1862-1868: Jefferson Davis (W-MS)
1868-1874: Robert MT Hunter (W-VA)
1874-1880: Benjamin H Hill (W-GA)
1880-1886: James Longstreet (W-GA)
1886-1892: Fitzhugh Lee (W-VA)
1892-1898: John Tyler Morgan (W-AL)
1898-1904: Robert L Taylor (W-TN)
1904-1910: Champ Clark (W-KY)
1910-1916: Woodrow Wilson (W-VA)
1916-1922: Gabriel Semmes (W-AL)
1922: Wade Hampton V (W-SC)
1922-1934: Burton Mitchel (W-AR)
1934-1944: Jake Featherston (F-VA)
1944: Donald Partridge (F-TN)

I don't think Beauregard would be President due to his Catholicism, which was a big deal in the South in OTL.

3rd President may be too early for Lee. 5th makes since because he would be able to unite the pro-slavery and pro-manumission branches of the Whigs.

Taylor and Clark are the perfect pre-Wilson Presidents
 
Speculation of Confederate Presidents:
1862-1868: Jefferson Davis (W-MS)
1868-1874: Robert MT Hunter (W-VA)
1874-1880: Benjamin H Hill (W-GA)
1880-1886: James Longstreet (W-GA)
1886-1892: Fitzhugh Lee (W-VA)
1892-1898: John Tyler Morgan (W-AL)
1898-1904: Robert L Taylor (W-TN)
1904-1910: Champ Clark (W-KY)
1910-1916: Woodrow Wilson (W-VA)
1916-1922: Gabriel Semmes (W-AL)
1922: Wade Hampton V (W-SC)
1922-1934: Burton Mitchel (W-AR)
1934-1944: Jake Featherston (F-VA)
1944: Donald Partridge (F-TN)

I don't think Beauregard would be President due to his Catholicism, which was a big deal in the South in OTL.

3rd President may be too early for Lee. 5th makes since because he would be able to unite the pro-slavery and pro-manumission branches of the Whigs.

Taylor and Clark are the perfect pre-Wilson Presidents


Just a comment about your screen name:

If the USA has Uncle Sam as one of its symbols, what might a fictional
figure of the CSA look like or what would he be called?
 
Just a comment about your screen name:

If the USA has Uncle Sam as one of its symbols, what might a fictional
figure of the CSA look like or what would he be called?

Well there was Confederate Connie during the Featherston dictatorship. That's the only reference Turtledove gives to a national icon in the CSA. I think there is no true CSA equivalent to an "Uncle Sam"
 
Just a comment about your screen name:

If the USA has Uncle Sam as one of its symbols, what might a fictional
figure of the CSA look like or what would he be called?

Either Johhny Rebel(with the surname change because the won) or a General lee esque figure like Lee in Colonel Sanders clothes... or a Southern Belle is possible too...
 
Colonel Sanders is a funny alternative. But he truly is a Kentucky figure and that state is sort of on the border in many ways, don't you think?

I do think a more militaristic amalgam of Stonewall, Bobby Lee, and JEB Stuart would work (all Virginia boys, BTW). And he'd have to be a cavalry man. (Ever been to Stone Mountain?)
 
Colonel Sanders is a funny alternative. But he truly is a Kentucky figure and that state is sort of on the border in many ways, don't you think?

I do think a more militaristic amalgam of Stonewall, Bobby Lee, and JEB Stuart would work (all Virginia boys, BTW). And he'd have to be a cavalry man. (Ever been to Stone Mountain?)
Even Nazi posters had Germania, so why not a Southern Belle? Dixie?
 
Colonel Sanders is a funny alternative. But he truly is a Kentucky figure and that state is sort of on the border in many ways, don't you think?

I do think a more militaristic amalgam of Stonewall, Bobby Lee, and JEB Stuart would work (all Virginia boys, BTW). And he'd have to be a cavalry man. (Ever been to Stone Mountain?)

I was playing into the initials of the countries and their mascots.
 
I like the Johnny Reb idea personally. I think that Confederate elites in the 20th century would like to play down the extent to which the planter/military class dominates the country. Some yeoman farmer with a gun defending his home against the Yankee horde plays into "we're all white men in this together" vibe of the Whigs.
 
I like the Johnny Reb idea personally. I think that Confederate elites in the 20th century would like to play down the extent to which the planter/military class dominates the country. Some yeoman farmer with a gun defending his home against the Yankee horde plays into "we're all white men in this together" vibe of the Whigs.
 
And if you're wondering why I post so infrequently these days, check the first line of my sig.

Seriously, the Camp Hill thing is coming soon.
 
Sorry if this has been mentioned before but could we learn the fates of famous authors from Tl-191.

John Steinbeck
Ian Fleming
F Scott Fitzgerald
C.S. Lewis
J.R.R. Tolkien
Erich Maria Remarque
 

Flubber

Banned
Sorry if this has been mentioned before but could we learn the fates of famous authors from Tl-191.


All were born well after the TL-191 POD so it's pretty certain none of them were ever born. That being said...

John Steinbeck
German grandfather fits in with TL-191's increased German immigration and raised in California so he'll still be in the US. He'd be too young for GW1 and too old for GW2, just as he was for WW1 and WW2. He could be a Socialist Party hack, a farmer, or a marine biologist.

Ian Fleming
His father most likely dies in GW1 just he did in WW1. Given Fleming's upbringing, education, and social background, plus the more militarized Britain of TL-191, it's highly unlikely that Fleming stays out of uniform until he's 31 in 1939 as happened in the OTL. In the OTL, Fleming was withdrawn from Eton before graduating, washed out of Sandhurst when he caught the clap, and failed his Foreign Service examinations. In TL-191, he won't be given as much slack and most likely will be an army officer. As for intelligence work, in the OTL Fleming first mostly worked as a liaison between his notoriously nasty boss and the everyone else and then worked on selecting targets for various intel gathering commando raids. He was never a "spy" in the OTL and won't be one in TL-191 where he's most likely dead.

F Scott Fitzgerald
Born in Minnesota to a family has been in US since before the POD. In the OTL, he actually served in the US Army stateside as a 2nd Lt. briefly during WW1 after dropping out of Princeton. Given the increased militarism of the US in TL-191, he'd be in ROTC when GW1 begins and is most likely called up before graduating. Given the historical KIA/WIA rates for 2nd Lts., he's dead and buried somewhere in Kentucky, Virginia, or Ontario.

C.S. Lewis
In the OTL served briefly on the Western Front in WW1 and before 1917. In TL-191, roll the dice to as whether he survives, is crippled, or killed. Roll again to determine whether it was in France or Canada. If he survives, he most likely retreats into religious mysticism earlier, faster, and deeper.

J.R.R. Tolkien
In the OTL, he's somewhat the same as C.S. Lewis, except his service was longer and more dangerous. He was at the Somme for example. Trench fever in late 1916 saved him oddly enough. His case was especially severe, saw him invalided back to England before his battalion was all but wiped out, and kept him on limited duty status there for the rest of the war. In TL-191, the lice bite someone else, Tolkien stays at the front, and is buried in some Flanders field.

Erich Maria Remarque
In the OTL, conscripted in 1916 and on the Western Front by 1917 where he spent about a month before being wounded so badly that he spent the rest of the war in the hospital. Like Lewis, roll the dice to see whether he's alive, crippled, or dead. In the OTL, he began writing before being conscripted and kept writing after the war while working as a teacher, salesman, etc. Would he write All Quiet on the Western Front while living in a victorious Germany? I'd say no.
 
Emory Upton Part I.

Emory Upton was born on a farm near Batavia New York, the tenth child of Daniel and Electra Randall Upton. He studied at Oberlin College, then a hot bed of radical abolitionism, for two years. Before being admitted to the United States Military Academy at West Point in 1856. Cadet Upton fought a duel with a classmate from South Carolina over his attendance at the academy and his strong Republican leanings. He graduated eighth in his class of 45 cadets on May 6, 1861, just in time for the outbreak of the Civil War

Upton was commissioned a second lieutenant in the U.S. Artillery and assigned to the 5th U.S. Artillery as second lieutenant on May 14th, in the Army of Northeastern Virginia. In the First Battle of Bull Run, July 21, 1861, he was wounded in the arm and left side during the action at Blackburn's Ford, although he did not leave the field. He commanded his battery in the VI Corps Artillery Reserve through the 1862 Peninsula Campaign and the Seven Days Battles. He commanded the artillery brigade for the 1st Division, VI Corps, during the disastrous Maryland Campaign of 1862 and fought heroically at the Battle of Camp Hill.

In the wake of the Battle of Camp Hill and the collapse of the Army of the Potomac, now LTC Upton in command of a brigades worth of Artillery, bravely fought to reorganize what remnants of the army of the Potomac that were under his command and save as much of its field artillery as he could. In this chaotic period LTC Upton’s quick thinking, strong organization skills and willingness to continue fighting in the face of defeat saved his reputation. His actions and vitriolic hatred of the "Sesesh," an insult he would fling at the confederates throughout his career, spared him from the military tribunals formed in the wake of the Army of the Potomac’s destruction. These tribunals ran in part by future Chief Court Justice James Garfield destroyed the careers of the Army of the Potomac’s top leaders. Not only would McClellans named be destroyed, but Corp Commanders like Sumner, Fitz Porter and Franklin; and division commanders like Hooker, Burnside. As the war drew to a close, however Upton retained a regular army commission of Major in the badly defeated and shrinking US army.

After the Armistice, then Lame Duck, President Lincoln redeployed much of what was left of the Union Army to the western territories. In an attempt to win favor with the western states, the army subdued the Indians in the more populated states like Minnesota and Iowa. The army was also sent to prevent those western territories and states that might attempt to bolt from the Union. During negotiations to end the War of Secession, the Confederate government closed the Mississippi river to compel the Lincoln administration to end the war. Though Lincoln successfully renegotiated its opening, the years of constrained commercial inactivity created intense financial distress for the Midwestern states along the Upper Mississippi. Sizable pro -secession groups took shake among the more virulent anti- Lincoln groups, which lasted into the late 1860’s. Upton would later recall that during his service in the Midwest, he spent as much time “hunting copperheads as Lakota’s.”

Recognizing the limited role artillery would play in this new theater and maintaining one of the few untarnished military reputations now Major Upton successfully lobbied to receive a Cavalry Battalion in the trans Mississippi Department. Major Upton saw combat in the Dakota and Nebraska Territories. It was here that Major Upton became convinced of the futility of the War of Secession's Linear tactics and began to formulate his theories on column based tactics. Upton Remembered the horrors of the Camp Hill campaign, as well as the futility of advancing on line against well camouflaged Indian snipers. He quickly distinguished himself as a daring cavalry commander and won commendations from his commanding officer General Pope. After his personal capture of several of the more intransigent local chiefs, General Pope assigned him to tackle the wide scale corruption that existed in the frontier fort system. After making headway against corrupt local suppliers and receiving little to know support from the War Department for his efforts, MAJ Upton discovered through friends in Washington that the War department and even the Secretary of War were complicit in the corruption. Many have seen this as the origin of Upton’s crusade against civilian control of the army departments.

It was during one of his few leaves home that he courted and became engaged to Emily Martin, a relation to the intractable Blair clan. On a returned visit to the East he requested and received a transfer to West Point to work on his new concept for infantry tactics. Emory and Emily married in 1868 and set out on a blissful honeymoon to France and Italy. There she contracted a lung infection, and while their marriage remained a happy one, she steadily declined, dying in March 1870, not yet 25 years of age and leaving no children.

Upton flung himself into his work more intensely than ever. By year's end he was appointed West Point's commandant of cadets, supervising discipline and administration at the academy. Upton also worked night and day to expand his infantry tactics to accommodate artillery and cavalry—of which, of course, he also had firsthand knowledge.

With the old linear plan of attack now discredited, Upton argued in his 1867 manual, Infantry Tactics, for a new method that relied upon heavy skirmishers, who would advance on the enemy lines in steadily greater numbers, clearing the way for a final charge by companies of reserves. Instead of the old system of mass volleys under the tight control of commanding officers, Upton's Army would rely heavily on individual responsibility, aimed marksmanship and unit morale. The American infantryman would be able to improvise and use to his advantage the sort of heavily wooded, irregular landscape that had prevailed in Upton's Southern and Western campaign.

Predictably, Upton's tactics faced ridicule and resistance from any number of his hidebound fellow officers. However his book, A New System of Infantry Tactics, Double and Single Rank, Adapted to American Topography and Improved Fire-Arms was published 1870. This work and an accompanying manual for “non-military bodies” quickly became a best seller. While politically, the nation was dominated by Soft-line Democrats, a growing number of the population was both fearful of a renewed war with the Confederacy and its allies. These Republicans and hard- line Democrats consumed all types of military manuals and military publications. Ironically one of his works greatest proponents was famed Confederate General Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson, who was then the commandant of the Virginia Military Institute. General Jackson lobbied hard and succeeded in having these “new tactics” adopted by the confederate army. Jackson would later demonstrate their effectiveness in the Battle of Winchester in the opening phase of the Second Mexican War.

After working for seven years refining his new system, Upton lobbied the army to send him on a research tour of the world's armies. However the cash strapped and increasingly xenophobic army of the 1870’s was not willing to squander precious recourses on researching foreign armies. The success of Upton’s recent publication however, afforded him the resources to pay for the trip on his own. A small nucleus of reform minded officers and political friends succeeded in obtaining a one-year sabbatical and the credentials to make to trip possible. He set off from San Francisco in 1875.

By the time he returned to the United States in the fall of 1876, Upton had closely observed the militaries of China, Japan, India, Persia, Italy, France, Britain, Russia, Germany and Austria-Hungary. His study included detailed reports on the number and distributions of each army, the military schools and training of their officers, their tactics, administration, recruitment practices, munitions, equipment, hospitals, camps, barracks, pay and morale.

In just over a year he submitted to the Adjutant-General a 370-documenton his findings, The Armies of Europe & Asia, including 54 pages of specific recommendations for reorganizing the U.S. Army. What Upton proposed was a revolution in how America regarded and maintained its Army. His general principles was the creation of a large, standing professional Army for the first time in U.S. history, and a reserve organized and led by the Federal Government.

Upton's proposed a Prussian-ized version of the American army. In consolidating its empire, Germany had transformed its disorganized, fractious, often rebellious militias—the Landwehr— into a modern Army Reserve. Like the State Militias in the War of Secession, the old Prussian landwher were bodies with locals elected officers. Whose training was uncoordinated and left to non professional militia leaders. Under General Albrecht von Roon these bodies were consolidated and training and standards were enforced by the Central Government. The government drafted or recruited soldiers for three- to five-year periods, after which they would spend four years in the active reserve and another five in the Landwehr, called up every six months for weeks of training and maneuvers.

In times of war the government could quickly mobilize an effective, coordinated fighting force. In times of peace the standing professional army, headed by a general staff, ran advanced war colleges, plotted strategy, reviewed tactics, and evaluated officers and men. By the mid 1870’s all the major continental powers were rapidly emulating this system, steadily expanding the size of their armies and soon to institute universal conscription.

Upton called for nothing less radical for the United States, a “big army” with 65,000 men. Supported by trained reserve of 140,000 national volunteers whose officers were selected and trained by the Federal Government. Upton saw the greatest failure for the Union Army in the War of Secession, was its reliance on untrained civilians to fill its ranks. By relying on the State Militias for volunteers the Army was saddled with incimpetent officers selected by state politicians and enlisted men of inconsistent levels of training. By replacing the militias with a new national volunteer force, the army could count on its reserves to be effective and able to rely on their capabilities. He further projected that all of this might be brought about, he estimated, for an additional expenditure of only $30 million. Something the cash strapped US government could have afforded, as compared to the costs of another unsuccessful war. After his Retirement LTG Upton would admit that these proposals were merely his attempt to gain a foot in the door. His major aim was to get the people of the United States to accept the idea of a standing professional army as its primary defense force over an untrained Militia. Even at this early date he planned on introducing a system looking like what the nation had at the outbreak of the Great War, once his national volunteer system was working well.

In Washington and sometimes Philadelphia, Upton’s report quickly became controversial. Many Republicans supported its proposals and it split the Democrats between hard-liner and soft-liners. It especially offended states rights Democrats who saw this move as completely unconstitutional and a violation of the second amendment “well regulated Militia” clause. Though widely circulated amongst military and political circles, as an army report it was not published for the consumption of the general public. In the wake of the Confederate acquisition of Cuba and rumblings of a possible Confederate purchase of Mexican territory, the contents of Upton’s report were leaked by several pro- Republican Newspapers. By 1876 now LTC Upton was stationed at the War department completing his report and advising on a new Post Graduate Advanced Artillery School, which the Army was planning to build near Aberdeen Maryland. During this time he made acquaintances with politicians friendly to the cause of Army Reform like future Supreme Court Justice Garfield, Thomas Brackett Reed of Maine and Hard line Democrats Daniel Sickles and Francis Kernan. By 1877 Several Republican and Democrat power brokers were toying with the idea of asking him to run for Congress in his native Batavia, New York. The Democrats even asked him to stump on behalf of several imperiled Democratic Congressional district in the 1878 election. Disdainful of how civillians had managed the War of Succession, LTC Upton decided to remian in the US Army. Because of the controversy of his work, the increasing signs of fierce a Presidential election in 1880, and the liability he could be as a Republican spokes person, Emory Upton was offered a command of his choice and a promotion to Colonel. Provided, he chose a command no where near Washington or Philadelphia.

Upton chose an Infantry regiment stationed along the Kentucky Ohio Border, with a less then stellar history. Despite the new command, Col. Upton was in deep despair over his stifled attempts to reform the countries backward Military Policy. He even admitted to His closest friend Henry A. du Pont, to contemplating suicide. To ward off despair Upton threw himself into the work of creating a model Regiment based upon his observations of the German system. Their previous assignment had been to support local officials in preventing “the undesirable situation of Negro immigration into the state Ohio.” This assignment left the Regiment with terrible discipline and morale problems. On assuming command, now COL Upton quickly went to work drilling the new column based tactics he had pioneered at West Point, that were now being adopted by Federal and Militia forces across the country. Further, he began training and implementing the German Army Staff System, on both the Battalion and Regimental level. Colonel Upton used this regiment as a laboratory, experimenting new with tactical and leadership ideas he learned abroad.

By 1879 the Regiment had earned the reputations as the best drilled Regiment in the Ohio Department. By 1880 Upton's Regiment was being talked about as a model for what a reformed army might look like. With the election of Republican James G. Blaine, COL Upton would find himself at the perfect spot to test his new infantry tactics and witness the failure of the United States Militia system first hand.


Part II The Second Mexican War and Upton’s War for the future of the United States Army.
 
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Hey guys I have been a fan of this timeline for a while now. I think Craigo has done a terrific job of expanding on Mr. Turtledoves timeline, while still staying true to the thing's I love most about this timeline. I am obsessed with this darker more militarized US. Craigo and everyone has done such a great job at showing how the US could have been transformed from being dominated by Southern Appeasors to TR's US we see at the outbreak of WW1. Craigo I am dying to see the election of 1888 when you get a chance. Especially how the Hardline Coalition takes over the Democrats.

These bios are my thoughts on this transformation. I think Upton is the perfect person to be the military brain behind the US Prussianization. If you haven't read Stephen E. Ambrose's Upton and the Army I advise you grab it. It's a short read and gives you a great incite into the OTL Army from the Civil War and outbreak of the Spanish America War. All of my post come from Ambroses book, Craigo's posts and of Course HT's work.

I am writing part II of the emory upton bio and my biggest issue is dates for the Second Mexican War. HT seems to shy away from dates in his books or really calling anything a battle when it is going on.With the exception of Battle of Camphill, Battle of Pittsburg, Battle of the Three Navies and a few other that escapes me.

What I gather from how few remain, the war starts spring 1881. Then early on there is a battle of Winchester Va, which is a CSA win. Then an invasion of Kentucky. Then a battle of Louisville that last most of the war. Sometime late summer there is a US flanking attack that fails. Then after that there is a Confederate counter attack that makes it to the Ohio River. Then a US withdrawl back over the Ohio. There is the battle battle in the Montana Territory and an armistice sometime in fall. The US and CS begin negotiating sometime until Spring of 1882 and sign a treaty on April 22nd, 1882.

Somewhere in between is the battle for Pocahontas Arkansas and the stuff going on out west. If anyone has some clarifications it would be greatly appreciated. Part II is going to go from the SMW to Upton's taking over as Chief of Staff. Part III is Upton as CoS and his "retirement." If anything seems to clash with Craigo or HT's work I am all ears.
 
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