Cosmopolitan- so mixed that there really isn't much of an ethnicity. Usually either in major cities or in places such as Erzurum where the original population is expelled or hiding. Logically, the entire country would be that colour in a few hundred years.
Map Thread X
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Whats a colonisator?
A powerful android sent back in time by British Skynet to stop the revolutionary Patriot John Connor from being born.
Another borderline ASB Ameriwank map of mine. Apparently I'm known for liking Ameriwanks, and I've only been here a month and a half. Nice.
Ignore my atrocious territory borders, please.
So the US gets everything south of the St. Lawrence. Thank you, Nova Scotia and half of Quebec for rebelling.
During the Constitutional Convention, Thomas Jefferson witnesses a huge argument between pro-slavery and anti-slavery factions. He sees the future and decides to take a step to avoid it.
He teams up with fellow abolitionist founding fathers (of which there were apparently quite a few) and manages to get slavery abolished in Virginia by 1800. As Virginia was quite the leader at the time, Maryland, Delaware, DC, and future Kentucky all abolish slavery. North Carolina follows narrowly (by one vote it became a free state) which liberates future Tennessee and even Arkansas. Stephen Austin can't convince the Mexican government to let the American Texans to keep their slaves, so Texas is thrown into the free state camp when it joins.
When the Mexican-American War rolls around, support is almost unanimous because the Northerners aren't afraid of slavery and the Southerners see it as a place to expand the peculiar institution to. The Americans push much harder and manage to get modern-day Baja California (and Sur), Sonora, Sinaloa, and parts of Chihuahua along the Rio Conchos.
Anyway, TTL's Wilmot Proviso analogue passes Congress and this is where the Deep South secedes. The US can easily take these six states, though it's a little hampered by a few Mexican revolts out west.
The Civil War is done with in about a year and a half; it extends from 1850 to 1851. Slavery is officially abolished as a more complete Reconstruction takes place.
Anyway, that's the general overview.
I believe this is only Semi-ASB, though I might have used my butterfly net a little too liberally.
Things I'm stuck on: State boundaries, especially in the Great Lakes area, Missouri, and Texas.
A few fun facts about this map: California doesn't include San Diego; it's a truly straight line from the Colorado-Gila junction this time.
The states are probably going to be named what they are OTL, though I might mess around with the Great Lakes a bit. I'm planning on having Nova Scotia give up New Brunswick, which will be given the misnomer 'Acadia'. I don't know about the Quebec areas, however.
List of territories on this map: The Baja Territory, Sonora Territory, New Mexico Territory, Kansas Territory, Minnesota Territory, Iowa Territory, Nebraska Territory, Utah Territory, Indian Territory and Oregon Territory.
Ignore my atrocious territory borders, please.
So the US gets everything south of the St. Lawrence. Thank you, Nova Scotia and half of Quebec for rebelling.
During the Constitutional Convention, Thomas Jefferson witnesses a huge argument between pro-slavery and anti-slavery factions. He sees the future and decides to take a step to avoid it.
He teams up with fellow abolitionist founding fathers (of which there were apparently quite a few) and manages to get slavery abolished in Virginia by 1800. As Virginia was quite the leader at the time, Maryland, Delaware, DC, and future Kentucky all abolish slavery. North Carolina follows narrowly (by one vote it became a free state) which liberates future Tennessee and even Arkansas. Stephen Austin can't convince the Mexican government to let the American Texans to keep their slaves, so Texas is thrown into the free state camp when it joins.
When the Mexican-American War rolls around, support is almost unanimous because the Northerners aren't afraid of slavery and the Southerners see it as a place to expand the peculiar institution to. The Americans push much harder and manage to get modern-day Baja California (and Sur), Sonora, Sinaloa, and parts of Chihuahua along the Rio Conchos.
Anyway, TTL's Wilmot Proviso analogue passes Congress and this is where the Deep South secedes. The US can easily take these six states, though it's a little hampered by a few Mexican revolts out west.
The Civil War is done with in about a year and a half; it extends from 1850 to 1851. Slavery is officially abolished as a more complete Reconstruction takes place.
Anyway, that's the general overview.
I believe this is only Semi-ASB, though I might have used my butterfly net a little too liberally.
Things I'm stuck on: State boundaries, especially in the Great Lakes area, Missouri, and Texas.
A few fun facts about this map: California doesn't include San Diego; it's a truly straight line from the Colorado-Gila junction this time.
The states are probably going to be named what they are OTL, though I might mess around with the Great Lakes a bit. I'm planning on having Nova Scotia give up New Brunswick, which will be given the misnomer 'Acadia'. I don't know about the Quebec areas, however.
List of territories on this map: The Baja Territory, Sonora Territory, New Mexico Territory, Kansas Territory, Minnesota Territory, Iowa Territory, Nebraska Territory, Utah Territory, Indian Territory and Oregon Territory.
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I actually approve you gave some thought to how such a wank plays out. Especially in the Chesapeake/Appalachian areas phasing slavery gradually.
Some minor quibbles:
How did the Americans snag the territory south of the St. Lawrence? I think they got pushed out of St. John/St. Jean and Sorel in the failed OTL Canada Invasion and never held the Gaspesian Peninsula. Speaking of, 'Gaspesia' may work as a name if you do keep it though.
Tennessee and Arkansas I feel may not phase slavery just via North Carolina's example. I can dig Mexico clamping down harder on Texan slavery, though, I like that.
New Brunswick at the time of the ARW was one huge county named 'Sunbury' although I can get that it might be given a new non-pro British name in this case, just a throw-out. Similarly, the Baja Territory would likely be called Lower California - with both Californias the Alta/Baja distinction would be kept and anglicized as Upper/Lower they were wont to do in maps and descriptions at this time.
Props for:
A Civil War at a different time. Also keeping it from being a complete route via the Mexican revolts out in the southwest. How will that fare on in TTL?
Not making it a ridiculous Ameriwank. Having more northern states in general would probably still cause more southern territory to be conquered to make up for a 'general' north-south balance even if it's not specifically about slavery (as much, at least) in TTL.
Again, nice in general!
Some minor quibbles:
How did the Americans snag the territory south of the St. Lawrence? I think they got pushed out of St. John/St. Jean and Sorel in the failed OTL Canada Invasion and never held the Gaspesian Peninsula. Speaking of, 'Gaspesia' may work as a name if you do keep it though.
Tennessee and Arkansas I feel may not phase slavery just via North Carolina's example. I can dig Mexico clamping down harder on Texan slavery, though, I like that.
New Brunswick at the time of the ARW was one huge county named 'Sunbury' although I can get that it might be given a new non-pro British name in this case, just a throw-out. Similarly, the Baja Territory would likely be called Lower California - with both Californias the Alta/Baja distinction would be kept and anglicized as Upper/Lower they were wont to do in maps and descriptions at this time.
Props for:
A Civil War at a different time. Also keeping it from being a complete route via the Mexican revolts out in the southwest. How will that fare on in TTL?
Not making it a ridiculous Ameriwank. Having more northern states in general would probably still cause more southern territory to be conquered to make up for a 'general' north-south balance even if it's not specifically about slavery (as much, at least) in TTL.
Again, nice in general!
I like the Slavery-lite US and the earlier abolition of slavery, but definitely gonna want to change those borders. Also, Texas will likely be smaller if the American settlers aren't able to bring their slaves.
I can see for irony's sake an American State of Texas being of the same borders as the Mexican Provincia de Tejas in TTL.
Thank you!
Thanks for the idea for the name. I'll consider it.
I remembered something I heard about this guy who tried to get Nova Scotia rebelling, but they couldn't get him any aid. I'll probably work that up in there. I'm also thinking about a slightly more abrasive Quebec Act. As in, the Brits don't want Quebec to Rebel, but they're still not completely digging have a bunch of Francophone Catholics in their colonies.
Hmm. You're right, I might want Tennessee and Arkansas as a border state analogue or something, though I've been trying to shake it up. But yeah, border states would probably work well.
Sunbury? Hmm. Doesn't sound too bad. I'll consider it, thanks. Also, California would be deemed "Upper" and "Lower"? Interesting, though I supposed since the US anglicized "Tejas" and stuff, you might be able to get an Upper California - Lower California thing going.
I'm thinking that the Mexican revolts will be watched carefully after they've been put down (I was thinking about having the Americans treat both the White Spaniards and Mestizo Mexicans like they treated Amerindians IOTL, with a few Sand Creek or Wounded Knee incidents occurring in the Southwest).
Slavery is still a debate ITTL but the Southerners are hit hard every time they try to get a remotely pro-South bill or compromise in. The Northerners really have a supermajority in the House now and a decent two-thirds majority in the Senate.
Thank you!
I can see for irony's sake an American State of Texas being of the same borders as the Mexican Provincia de Tejas in TTL.
Yeah, I know my borders are horrible. I might use the Mexican-recognized borders of the Republic of Texas for the state. The space between the Rio Grande and the Nueces sticks out like a sore thumb, but I think I can work it in.
Any ideas for Missouri and the Great Lakes?
Also, a question to anyone in this thread: Do you think I should put in a West Florida, or is that too cliche?
And a note on Missouri and Arkansas: I butterflied the "John Hardeman Walker, Czar of the Valley" stuff, so Missouri doesn't doesn't have the bootheel.
Delhi is the heart of India. The symbolic value alone would justify it remaining the capital. I'd say that the borders in his map are what they'd look like in the first month, with major operations going down after that between all the Indian states.
A popular path to US Quebec. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing.
It's plausible that the St. Lawrence River was the furthest north the American rebels were able to maintain control of, and thus was used as a border.
Well, they Anglicized "Texas," not knowing the 'x' makes an 'h' sound.
The poor dears.
By all means, take 'em to the Rio Grande, but make sure the arbitrary borders are altered at least a little.
Microstate Kingdom of Callaway analogue? I guess the US Civil War didn't make it quite up there, so it might be hard... Maybe something with a Mormon analogue?
If you can come up with a way for it to be plausible within the timeline, go for it.
I figured as much.
Well the increased extent of this US is not the ASB part. In fact the borders are fairly plausible, though the St. Lawrence could never be a border.
The only real problems are the internal details/politics (I doubt Virginia could abolish slavery by 1800) and the convergence of some borders.
Did a map for my ASB scenario thread: the world of Will Shetterly's "Captain Confederacy" at the time it was supposed to be happening, circa 1969.
(Writeup here: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=7379924&posted=1#post7379924 )
Bruce
(Writeup here: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=7379924&posted=1#post7379924 )
Bruce
Why not? Maybe the Americans were only able to push up to the St. Lawrence, not past it, or maybe they did get past it, but got pushed back to the line of the St. Lawrence. It's a pretty big river - not inconceivable that we could end up with a stalemate, each side on the St. Lawrence but neither able to cross it, and if we end up with uti possidetis then the St. Lawrence could become the border. It makes as much sense as having the Mississippi or the Rhine or the Danube as a border - and all three have happened quite a lot.
I can't think of any other plausible ways; it seems neither can anyone else!
That's what I was thinking.
Mispronunciations are the key to American life!
It's easy to see Texas having a different northern border; by now slavery is a distant memory and it's just easy grandfathering the state in without slavery, so the 36"30 isn't really relevant. I might do something with the side "panhandle-ish-thing" as well.
I meant in terms of borders, but the Mormons would be interesting in other places than Utah.
IOTL we annexed West Florida and were ceded East Florida; perhaps I can split the Mississippi territory North/South, and we annex West Florida in time for a state to be called West Florida.
I don't know, maybe it's just not supposed to be in this timeline.
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Why couldn't the St. Lawrence be a border? The Mississippi could be an international border; so could the Rio Grande, and the Colorado (for a short time), why can't the St. Lawrence?
As for the convergence of border: Yes, I'm working on that. I used a butterfly net fairly (read: extremely) liberally but I'm working on fixing it. This was just a rough draft.
As for Virginia abolishing slavery, I'm thinking that Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, George Washington, and a few others who were extremely influential at the time (was George Clinton an abolitionist?) could tip the scales in the favor of abolitionism. Maybe not by 1800, but I could see a bill being passed in 1800 for an eventual gradual emancipation.
Exactly my thoughts, except I was thinking more of the Rhine being the Swiss-German border.
A world where Communism does somewhat better than OTL. (Sorry if I posted this or something similar before, but I couldn't find it in any posts, so I'm putting it here).
I love a lot of this map! France-Britain is awesome, as well as North America and Africa. Brazil ITTL is absolutely great! Also good idea to give the horn of Africa to the Ottomans, though I think it's a bit weird that the very west of Anatolia is Russian. Also pretty a shame that India is divided.
Besides, what was actually the casus belli for this war?
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