Lands of Ice and Mice: An Alternate History of the Thule

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Hello, hello, it's time to say goodbye

I think that I have come to the point where it's time for me to move on from this Board. It's been time for a while, but I suppose I was waiting on an event, and caught in a day to day.

Allow me to introduce myself: My real name is Den Valdron, I am a lawyer in Winnipeg, Manitoba, working in the field of aboriginal law some twenty years now. If you're ever in Winnipeg, feel free to look me up, I try to be gracious.

Many of my clients are northern, some far north, and I have vivid memories of attending a northern wedding party so far up the curvature of the world that I watched dawn break on one horizon at the same time that dusk faded. I've had close encounters with bears and men with guns, travelled a bit, met some interesting people. As a life goes, it's had a few moments to it.

Perhaps because of my work with the far north, I seem to have focused either on polar or tropical civilizations. I guess that seems about right.

I don't think I expected to end up a lawyer. I grew up in backwoods New Brunswick, at the tail end of the appalachians on by chaleur. A working class kid in a hardscrabble working class town. Very old school, very traditional, elements of Norman Rockwell, but also the dark sides backwoods small towns as well.

When I was young, I figured I'd be a mechanic like my dad. I started early, I was pumping gas and fixing flat tires when I was ten. In high school, instead of the normal teen things like sports and dating, me and my brother pulled the engines out of cars and rebuilt them.

It turns out I was smart, lucked into University, fell in love with this world of books and ideas, fell in love with the idea of civilization and civility, this notion that no matter how harshly we might address each other, it would not lead to spit out teeth and shattered bones. Anthropology, history, the way the world worked, that fascinated me.

I think that I had a fiercer drive to learn than many of my fellow students, simply because this was a genuinely undiscovered country previously out of the reach of my kind. I felt many of my peers took it for granted. Education had been a practical thing where I came from, just enough to know your letters and numbers and that was that, even that was a lot. I have cousins who can't read or write. My father's generation for the most part did no better than grade school, despite being clever men and women. I was the first of my family to go to university, to discover a new world, to fall in love with it, and to be hungry, voraciously hungry for it.

I always wanted to be a writer, that was my real avocation. I had some tiny successes, and some almost successes, came close to a book deal once or twice. That was my dream. I wanted to be a father, that didn't happen either. Was married. So it goes. I suppose the lesson is that dreams die, but we keep on going.

The law thing happened, I suppose for a bunch of reasons. I was smart enough to know that any wannabe artist needs a day job. Or by the traditional values of the place I grew up, a smart kid was going to be a lawyer, a doctor or a priest, and that was that. Fundamentally, I think I was and still am an idealist, I believed in right and wrong, I believed in justice, I believed in trying to do something that mattered. I suppose, bruised and battered as those ideals are, I still believe in all that stuff.

I believe in human nature, and I've gotten to see quite a lot of it, unfortunately. In the end, we are what we are, often for the worst. I suppose I just believe that we ought to try and be better, even if we fail at it a lot.

Why am I writing all this? I suppose its part of my process of saying goodbye.

Some of you read these these timelines, perhaps its worthwhile to finally get to know a little of the person that wrote them. Perhaps it adds a dimension to things.

I've never worked with Inuit per se, but I've worked and lived in the far north with the Swampy Cree and Dene, in a landscape of marsh and muskeg vast enough to swallow American states, was out on the water with men for whom English was a distant strange language, sat with medicine men, and interviewed elders whose family memories included the first sight of a white man, who remembered treaty payments when money was just a funny paper you stuck in a hat, but the treaty gift of twine was vital to make your nets for fishing.

I think some of that did end up in Ice and Mice, somehow. In oblique ways, it ended up influencing Green Antarctica or Empire of Mu. So maybe this adds to it for you. Or maybe it demonstrates more bona fides to the work, that between backwoods upbringing, and academic training, and work, I have a bit of mojo going on.

If there's anything I hate, it is unresolved endings. The writer in me, I suppose, or the fighter. There's an urge to wrap things up somehow, to set matters in their places, to move things to resolutions or finality.

Unrealistic, I know, neither life nor history is like that. History, of course, just goes on and on and on. And life, as I've seen far too often, simply stops. This Board all too often mimics both aspects of that.

Still, I am what I am. I have a handful of timelines, and some urge to bring them to some resolution, or at least to a place where I can say 'fine', and walk off. Some are more amenable than others. The Axis of Andes, about an actual war, desperately needs resolution and denouement. Ice and Mice, Moontrap, and Green Antarctica... I should leave them at an appropriate point. I figure it will take about a month, maybe two, to bring about the appropriate closures.

There'll be short cuts of course, no way to avoid that. The literary narrative portions were always the most creatively demanding, and I'm going to cut those out. There'll probably be other shortcuts.

What can I say? It's been fun, but it's past time. I came upon this site at a particular point in my life, a low point, and it has had its rewards. But I think that at for the last few months... it's just been accumulating. It is time to move on, time to pursue the career, or pursue the dream, or simply to live.

There will be no rancor to this departure. No giant 'fuck you's'. The internet is an unreal place - there's not enough substance to it to make enemies or hold grudges. Sadly, there's not enough substance for genuine friendships either. But having said that, there are many people here whose work I have admired, there are many people here who I have enjoyed discussions with, and I want to acknowledge them as well.

Anyway, I would invite those of you who are interested to join me, as I putter about my rooms turning out the lights. There will be more reflections and goodbyes, and perhaps a steady sequence of resolutions of this or that.
 
And I thought this site couldnt surprise me...

It will be sad to see you go, I've found your threads on the whole to be the most thoughtful and thought provoking on here.
I hope you realise you will be welcome anytime.
 
I only wish I had discovered this site early enough to read your TLs from the start, this story is one of the main reasons I visit the site and while I'm excited to see where you take it in the next couple of months I will be sad to see it end. Good luck with writing/lawyering or whatever it is you choose to do. If you do write a book, alternate history or otherwise, let us know, I'm sure you will have a fan base waiting, I for one would certainly get it!
 
I'd buy the book too. I think "the experiences of a lawyer who works with First Nations people" would make great non-fiction, too.
 
Yeesh man, self-publish some of your stuff. In table top RPG games (the other kind of forum I post in) we're up to our necks right now with people using kickstarter to raise money for editing, art, lay out and small print runs. If you've got just 100 people who really love your work you can easily get enough money raised for a small print run.

I'd certainly buy whatever you put out, and maybe a few copies for family/friends.

It's pretty surprising how little self publishing there is in AH compared to other geek sub-cultures that are just as small.
 
Aw, really, Den ? You're leaving permanently ? :eek: :(

Hm, well I guess if you have your reasons... Be our guest. I do like that you'll finish some of the stories before you leave. Thanks for that.

And I concur with the rest : Publishing a non-fiction book to chronicle your experiences from field research would be interesting. :)

I do agree with Daztur that you could license some of your stuff for entertainment purposes. You've always written original AH, so putting it to further use might be worth a shot.
 
Yeesh man, self-publish some of your stuff.

I've been writing books and trying to get them published for three years now. I didn't have much success with self-publishing, but I can at least tell you some pitfalls to avoid.
I'd suggest going the old-fashioned route (with a literary agent), and I can recommend some promising ones. It's a long and tedious and frustrating process getting your manuscript noticed by the publishing industry, but I think it's worth it.
I also think you can produce something they want.
 
I also think you can produce something they want.
I agree!
the non-fiction idea that's beeing kicked around is great, I would be interested in a memoir fo sho! also...
Green Antarctica has gainded noteriety, ive seen it refrenced around the web not just on AH.com, I imagine that narratives set in that universe could be published and sell, dark fantasy is a fairly popular genre and with the established fan base on this site it could be a giant!
 
I think that I have come to the point where it's time for me to move on from this Board. It's been time for a while, but I suppose I was waiting on an event, and caught in a day to day.

I am very sorry to hear that.

I've enjoyed your work here immensly. I wish I'd been able to contribute more, but real life has been very demanding, and hasn't allowed me the spare time for more than quick posts here and there. Especially difficult since the enthusiasm for your work generally means that the threads run 50 pages before I've logged in and spotted it.

I can see that the amount of work you've put in here may be hard to sustain over time. I hope you'll log back in on occasion, even if you don't have the opportunity for the huge TLs any more!
 
Wow... Saddened to hear you are leaving soon. I hadnt read any of your timelines until after we discussed Pykrete et al on the precursor discussion thread to this one but having done so since I have found them Highly Enjoyable, Entertaining & Informative. I will miss the intelligent discourse & flights of fancy you have brought to our lives via this site & I Wish you well in all your future endeavours. :) Ditto if you publish either Fiction or Non I would also purchase, so let Us/Me know.
 
You spread yourself very thin, but very richly. I'll miss you.

Green Antarctica, in particular. A lot of people besides myself have suddenly stopped spitting and vomiting into handy receptacles and started weeping into them instead.

But perhaps I get why you're going with this. I feel like this forum is kinda a hothouse environment -- artificial, forced, and unwholesome. Albeit frenetic indulgent encouraging and awesome ;)

Best wishes,

Kim
 
I'd buy the book too. I think "the experiences of a lawyer who works with First Nations people" would make great non-fiction, too.

Damn straight. As a former teacher in the Alaskan Bush among the Yup'ik; I too would love to hear what you have to say (and, honestly, I hope your experiences would be more positive than mine). I've often considered a law degree, and work in law support currently, although my love has always been History.

I hope you reconsider your desire to leave; but I also do understand. Good Night Sweet Prince, and take care of yourself, sir!
 
I have always hated necroing, but I feel the need to say something before letting this TL slip off into the night.

First of all, let me apologize. I abandoned this timeline and this board without a second thought, without even warning DValdron or the readership of LoIaM of what I was going to do. A lot of things have happened in the past few months to me, and I've only realized now how absolutely rude I was when I left. I've changed now. Second of all, let me say that DValdron was, along to my friends from PioT, the single most intelligent, eloquent, and friendly person I've met on this board. I am terribly sad to see him leave, especially without being able to thank him for all of his help and collaborate with him further. It was good working with you, Mr. Valdron. Thank you for continuing this.

Finally, I'd like to say that if anyone is still interested in a Thule timeline, I would be interested in starting again or continuing this (though I feel this timeline is too much DValdron's for me to simply step in and keep going). I know I jumped ship last time, but the problems I've been dealing with are finally over, and I think things will be pretty calm for now.
 
That's OK, Guy. I think all is forgiven by this point. If DValdron allows you to continue this TL, then by all means, if you want to, do it.
 
I have always hated necroing, but I feel the need to say something before letting this TL slip off into the night.

First of all, let me apologize. I abandoned this timeline and this board without a second thought, without even warning DValdron or the readership of LoIaM of what I was going to do. A lot of things have happened in the past few months to me, and I've only realized now how absolutely rude I was when I left. I've changed now. Second of all, let me say that DValdron was, along to my friends from PioT, the single most intelligent, eloquent, and friendly person I've met on this board. I am terribly sad to see him leave, especially without being able to thank him for all of his help and collaborate with him further. It was good working with you, Mr. Valdron. Thank you for continuing this.

Finally, I'd like to say that if anyone is still interested in a Thule timeline, I would be interested in starting again or continuing this (though I feel this timeline is too much DValdron's for me to simply step in and keep going). I know I jumped ship last time, but the problems I've been dealing with are finally over, and I think things will be pretty calm for now.

Not to worry. More of a collaboration might have been interesting, but comme ci, comme ca.

In terms of doing a Thule Timeline, I'd be pleased if you started again. This one, I think is so heavily branded with my personality and perspectives, with my history, I'm not sure that you'd find it comfortable. But by all means, launch yourself a new one, take whatever ideas or notions you wish from this one, and have at it. Were I to stick around, I'd be interested in seeing what you do with it.

One of the fun things about Green Antarctica was having the chance to see what oether people might do - from the guy who borrowed it and started a thread off his own timeline in order to nuke the Tsalal into extinction, to another fellow who did a version of Green Antarctica where the Tsalal became extinct before European discovery.

I'm not suggesting anything radical. Just start up and do something that pleases you.
 
The Siberian Thule


A bare fifty miles of open sea or sea ice, separates Alaska and Siberia at the Bering strait.

At midpoint, 25 miles from either shore, sit the two Diomedes islands, less than twenty square miles together, a mile apart. This means that at no point in crossing between Alaska and Siberia, is a traveller more than thirteen miles away from the reassuring safety of solid land. In this sense, it was an easier and more tempting journey than Ellesmere Island, Labrador, Greenland or many of the Islands of the Canadian Archipelago.

Under favourable conditions, a band of Inuit travelling by dog or caribou sleigh could cross from one continent to another in substantially less than a day, with some assurance of a safe haven no more than a couple of hours away anywhere along the journey. A more ambitious band herding musk ox or caribou, or carrying heavier slower loads might take a day or two with little risk.

Three thousand years ago, the ancestors of the Thule people had come from Siberia, Island hopping along the Aleutian chain of isles to the south, bringing with them bows and arrows, dogs and the elements of the society that they would build. In Alaska, they remained for for two thousand years, perfecting the skills and technologies to survive in some of the most inhospitable territories of earth.

A thousand years ago, as in OTL, the Thule burst out of Alaska, sweeping east across the Canadian Arctic and Greenland. But some of the Thule moved west, crossing back into Siberia, across the Bering strait to recolonize parts of Asia.
In OTL those who moved west became the Yupik peoples of Alaska and Siberia. They didn’t get very far into Siberia. Out east, the Thule expansion had been into the lands of the Dorset culture, a people that lacked the mobility and weaponry of the aggressors. On the other hand, moving west, the Thule encountered the Chukchi, and beyond them, the Koryak, the Italmen, the Evenk, and Yakut.

These were all established peoples whose technology was at least on a par with the OTL Thule. They made use of dogs and dogsleds, they used harpoons and bow and arrow. In some respects their technology was better, many of these cultures had begun to herd reindeer, they were able to acquire metal tools through trading networks. They had inhabited territories which were generally richer and more productive. They had more species of edible plants available, these species were more widely distributed and common, and consequently made more use of their edible plants in their diets. A richer environment, less ravaged and scraped bare by ancient glaciers produced more biomass to feed animals. All this sustained a larger subsistence population, and it was a subsistence population that knew its territory.

So the Thule wave that moving east, ended up sweeping everyone and everything before it, swept west and.... Blunted. There would be no displacing the Chukchi as the Dorset had been displaced.

Instead, the Thule moving east met people they could not sweep away. Rather, they found their way, and found their advantage in the harshest Siberian landscapes, the barren Bering coasts where their finely tuned survival package gave them an edge in lands too severe for even the Chukchi.
That was how it was in OTL. In this timeline, things turned out a bit differently, and more importantly, those differences continued to magnify over time.

There were three factors to consider.

First, this alternative time line invasion was more ambitious, and more intrinsically capable. The Alaskan Thule had embraced proto-agricultural practices which had allowed for larger populations. The Thule who crossed the Bering strait were significantly more numerous. And equally important, the package and toolkit that they crossed over with, was just a little bit better. There were more plants in the diet, and more effective ways of encouraging plants. The Thule confronted the Chukchi with slightly more of an advantage than in OTL.

In itself, this was certainly not enough to displace the Chukchi, but it would allow the Thule to spread further along the Arctic and Pacific Coasts and inland of the Bering peninsula. Again, in and of itself, not terribly significant, just a matter of moving lines on a map slightly, of more territory and significantly more people in those territories. Ultimately, the first waves of Thule did little better than their OTL counterparts, and simply occupied a little more of the worst territory a little more densely.

Second, it was not one invasion, but a series of invasions. Perhaps it was more than one invasion in our own history. But from what we can tell of linguistic and cultural divergence, the Yupik emerged as a distinct people in Siberia and Alaska perhaps a thousand years ago. We must presume that their window of expansion and divergence was fairly short, perhaps a few decades, a few generations, no more.

In this history, Alaska was the launching point of dozens, even hundreds of invasions of Siberia, stretching across five centuries. The Yupik people never truly diverged as they did in our history. Continuing population movements kept the Thule language and culture more homogenous between Alaska and Siberia, allowing people to move back and forth, and allowing new waves of expansion to enter into lands where they found a readier reception.

The Chukchi and the peoples behind them found a steady source of enemies in the Thule, new waves periodically flowing out, pushing and displacing. Their enemy were not the Thule who occupied their borders, but rather, the waves of Thule behind those, who passed porously through those borders - landless men and women, seeking new ground, new opportunity. Kill them, and there were those who came after them. Immigration and migration pushed the defenders into wars of attrition that they could not win.

Finally, the advantage of the Thule was an accumulating one. The original Thule who crossed the Bering strait might have been at a disadvantage. The Chuchki were herding reindeer, they were at least as gifted at harvesting plants, and the peoples behind them were parts of extensive trade routes that offered the chance of southern bronze and iron.

These first generations of Thule had no Caribou, they had no Musk Ox, no Ptarmigan or Arctic hare. They had not acquired the Toggle harpoon, which the Easterners would obtain from the Dorset. Their trade networks were not initially broad or sophisticated enough to carry copper tools. A handful of pre-agricultural practices did not amount to cultivation.

Most of the cultural advances which were transforming Thule society were taking place to the East, and taking place much later. However, because Thule populations were greater, there was substantially more movement. Cultural innovations, or the components of them, were moving West, into Alaska, where they were being picked up and spread through each new wave of invaders, leaving the defenders more and more disadvantaged.
 
 
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