Ministry of Space, or Briiiiiits iiiiin Spaaaaace!

Thanks for all your comments, guys! It's good to know that you'll pitch in with good ideas and usefull suggestions to fuel my at times rather slow creative drive! :)

Ah. yes, Massau and LeClerc could probably do the trick in a somewhat nasty way! Perhaps we could have DeGaulle crash with a plane (whether or not OSS involvement is eveident is up to you - while I think it fun, then there's already quite a few political mur, eh, assa, eh, teminations in the MoS ATL as is). LeClerc return to France and team up with conservative elements in the political and military workds and restore order (read: crak some Commie skulls en masse) after some upheaval with American support.

The points about British/Commonwealth culture and its infuences are very interesting. This ATL would probably be rather fun and colourfull - the image of Passit's multi-cultural teenager pops into my mind here - no doubt to live in, I suppose! :)

Anyway, I've rewritten the part about South Africa. Added some stuff here and there and put in something about Rhodesia! I'm not quite happy with it, but i believe it does work fairly well if one don't ask to many pointed questions... :eek:

Have a nice weekend all!

My regards!

- B.

Bluenote

Good chapter on South Africa and more hopeful that I would expect. However I don't quite get the bit about Hungary. Sounded at 1st like the historical 56 revolt against the Communists. However your got it as a scandal causing problems for the conservatives in S Africa? or do you mean that the violent suppression by the Soviets was used as an excuse for an anti-Communist purge in the commonwealth which went too far and caused a fair amount of unrest?

Steve
 
good update- didnt get the bit about Zulus being a very minute minority though:rolleyes:

i have several thoughts on this TL that i shall share:-

I'm not sure the rift between the UK and US will mean major allround mistrust of anything British in the US or vice verse esp with regard to Beatles type pop culture in the 60's as that would be a break from most americans perceptions of the British anyway and 50's US culture probably cant be prevented from reaching Britain given as it was a process dating back from interwar years and for austere Britain the US is just too cool to ignore btw i dont mean respective governments i mean to the people on the street.

In terms of Britain being multicultural, It could eventually become as sought after a destination as the US or Canada both for people within and out the Commonwealth due to its much larger economy- apart from Indians and aforementioned anti communists we could also get a southern european element through thr 50's (OTL Italians and Greeks set up sizeable communities in Britain) as from a certain point the Soviets will cut of most east european immigration), Jews both Holocaust survivors and Middle eastern- for those who dont go to Rhodesia, Britain has a sizeable Jewish population to absorb them- China is another possibilty OTL they started arriving in the 50's/60's, ATL they'll have a right wing dictator to escape.
from:eek: .
didnt mention Ireland cos most of them came OTL anyway- where else can more new Brits (and Aussies/canuks etc come from), West Indies, Malaysia
East Africa?- after a point say the 80's we could get the situation we've recently reached OTL where most new immigrants to the UK arent from the Commonwealth.
In short- we'd have more immigrants from countries which sent some OTL and then some new communities which OTL are very small

Sorry, i'm rambling, almost done.

would the new Conservatives set up the new towns in the 40's, 50's and 60's- maybe Labour did it in their 52-56 term- i ask cos i live in a 'new town' developed in the 60's not actually new but massivly expanded. What i was thinking is that since ATL Britain has a thing for technology they could be developed as Technopolis's. Basically towns with lots of technology parks and devlopment centres etc for hi tech. Japan and france have them OTL.

didint think i'd write that much! keep up the good work.
 
got a couple more thoughts on TTL.

I think eventually a stronger France may try and strike out on its own (well trying to lead Europe + its French language associates)

British Cities esp Birmingham, Manchester Glasgow etc could be somewhat larger pop wise in TTL and more prominent due to them being richer + higher immigrant pop etc. not suggesting they'd equal London- maybe they rise to the status of OTL Toronto and Frankfurt etc etc.
This isnt neccessarly something that would need to be mentioned, just another trend i think will happen in TTL, P'haps Birmingham or somewhere hosts the Olympics in the 70's or something as a display of increased pride, wealth ATL.

If the US is behind UK in space research. prehaps theirs a reverse brain drain!

If ATL China's a right wing dictatorship, maybe the recent OTL growth is brought forward a few years- you might eventually have to devote one of you last posts on this thread to rising bona fide capitalist China and its plans to rival Britain and US in space!!
 
Indeed, Mr. Bluenote, this TL will be very colorfull! nice update:)

Anyway, what by you mean a Hungarian scandal in S.Africa?:confused: Do you mean that the Hungarian crackdown give the S.Africa government excuse to brutally crush some hotheads or something else?

In accordance to birdie, I think that the changing situation in China may change a political and more things in Asia. With China 'safe' from communism, and also no communist Vietnam, there would be less red scare in South East Asia, and while some communist groups will cause some problems, it wouldn't be at any level like in OTL because no close support from China. We may look at a more stable Asia here( but then again, with commie in Manchuria and Xinjiang, North Asia will be less pleasant)

However, I'm not sure that China will be grow at OTL rate. Right wing dictatorship in China will be plauged by corruption, like any other dictatorship country. Look at the pre WWII period and you can get a picture. Not to mention that China has just lose its oil producing regions, Manchuria and Xinjiang, which will make them more dependent on Middle East oil.

And with war rage on in China, greater amount Chinese will emigrate to various part of the world, sponsored by many chinese communities abroad, which will hurt China more as its more intellectual peoples will be among the first group to leave. Something like Vietnam could happen here too, I mean, a lot of half Chinese-American generation.

Waiting for another good update, whether the MOS or Luftwaffe TL ;)
 
And with war rage on in China, greater amount Chinese will emigrate to various part of the world, sponsored by many chinese communities abroad, which will hurt China more as its more intellectual peoples will be among the first group to leave. Something like Vietnam could happen here too, I mean, a lot of half Chinese-American generation.

Waiting for another good update, whether the MOS or Luftwaffe TL ;)


A larger Chinese population could arise in Britain among other places esp US, Canada- to compliment the larger Indian Community. Malaysia could also be a top destination for them.
 
given that this TL involves a strong France and i'm bored, i now suggest possible names for French Aircraft Carriers.

You have the FS Lafeyette already as France's 3rd Nuclear powered carrier so heres some suggestions for the others.

FS Richelieu (considered for OTL Charle De Gaulle)
FS Charle De Gaulle (more likely)
FS Jean Bart (planned super battleship of WW2, never built)
FS Gascoigne (same as Jean Bart)


FS Clemencau
FS Foch
(these two were France's conventially powered OTL Carriers between the 50's and 90's so they probably exist anyway in TTL).

If France are 'only' gonna have 3 Nuclear powered Carriers (there strong but i assume not as much as US or ATL UK, i can see the Richelieu, Charle De Gaulle and Lafeyette replacing the Conventially(sic) powered Clemenceu and Foch in the 80's or 90's.

If ATL France manage to build a space vehicle like a probe or something maybe with other Euro partners, the name Jean Bart might be suitable, i think he was a French explorer.
 
alright to bump the thread a couple of questions....

does the Suez crisis happen at the same time, remeber France has a potential role in that as OTL.

Does the Malaya emergency still happen?

ditto for the rebellion in Kenya in the 50's.?

bare in mind Egypt was very anti british i think in the immediate postwar period.
 
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1962. British Windak full pressure suit (mercury suit type). The suit is without cover layer (maybe alluminized or white).
 
Part VI
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way!
- Will Rogers.

Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.
- Theodore Roosevelt.

As British troops now had finished their withdrawal from many of the world’s potential hotspots or left the main burden of providing security to local forces – like the Don Light Horse in Northern Rhodesia, the number of young men called to do time in the National Service (a less warlike synonyme for conscription if you will) was scaled down from 12,000 a month to some 3,000. Generally speaking public opinion was behind the idea of National Service as it was clear that the post-war world was not a safe or stable place. As proven by the recently successfully concluded French campaign in Indo-China and the escalating conflict in Algeria, not to mention the Belgian mess in Congo and the Soviet Union’s hamfisted rampaging in its own backyard. National Service also played a vital role in boosting the standing army - even with its decreased commitment to the Empire, there was stil roughly 60,000 British troops posted around the world – and to introduce men into the Military who would otherwise not have considered serving. It is quite telling, that some 70% of the officer corps in the later 50’s and early 60’s were former National Servicemen.

Along with Elizabeths II’s ascention to the throne and the birth of the British Space Programme another very British tradition was born in the early 50’s as well - Racing.

Once the War had ended in 1945 and the British military gradually scaled back there suddenly were a high number of redundant airfields – not only in Britain itself, but around the world. The now famous Silverstone was one of these left-over airfields. In early 1948, the Royal Automobile Club approached the Air Ministry and was granted the use of Silverstone without much fuss. On October 2nd, 1948, Silverstone’s first racing event took place and was follwed be a series of sposored racing event for the next years f.x. - the Formula One Daily Express International Trophy open for Commonwealth citizens. The races were immensely popular and spectators flocked to the old airfield.

In 1950 the World Drivers’ Championship was created and the very first World Championship – which naturally was open for all nationalities - took place at Silverstone on May the 13th. It was a significant occasion for motor sport and the event was awarded the title of the European Grand Prix. The event was attended by King George VI, princess Elizabeth and other members of the upper crust. As Queen, Elizabeth II would return to Silverstone on nummerous occasions and seemed to be quite the racing fan. The original races had been dominated by Australians and British, but soon found the Italian drivers to be fierce competitors. After having lost to the Italians for a series of years, former RAF-pilots Brian Trubshaw – an employee of and driver for Bentley – and Ronald Harker – driving for an independent - finally brought the trophy back on British hands in 1958 and 59. The 50’s would establish the intense rivalry between the Italian automobile industry headed by Alfa Romeo and Ferrari and the British ditto headed by Aston Martin and Bentley. Later Mercedes-Benz and Ford would force their way into the racing elite with a series of sprtacular victories in the early 60’s. Trubshaw were by the way knighted in 1969, and made a lord in 1982. Harker died driving one of Morgan’s powerfull monocock cars at Brands Hatch in 1961, and was thus indirectly responsible for a lot of the restrcitions now placed on the various racing championships.

The late 50’s also brought with it the first new capital ships built in Britain since the end of the War. For almost 15 years the Royal Navy had scaled down and sold off ships, if not simply scrapping them. The habit of selling ships had indirectly led to an arms race in South America where Argentine, Brazil and Chile each viewed the others with great suspicion and thus found it necessary the match any and all steps taken by one of the others. A lot of elderly Royal Navy ships, along with planes, tanks and other surplus military equipement found its way to said countries in the late 40’s and early 50’s before the United States of America put a stop to it – which of course did little to endear the Americans to the British and thus brought with it another low in diplomatic relations.,

For some time the two only major capital ships – not counting the handfull of heavy cruisers - of the Royal Navy had been the battlehip HMS Vanguard and the fleet carrier HMS Ark Royal. Both ships were now placed in reserve as the new 47,000 tonnes fleet carriers HMS Malta and HMS Queen Elizabeth I raised their commands with much pomp. The two Malta’s would later in the late 60’s be supplemented by two atomic fleet carriers, HMS King George V and HMS Hood. Big George and Hood were truly monsters and packed a massive punch in form of the largest – some 120 aircraft contra the about 80 or so on the Malta’s - and most advanced air wings ever seen upon the Seven Seas – actually just one of these mammoth ships carried more planes than most air forces. As two further King George V class atomic carries were comissioned and put to sea in the 70’s, HMS Malta and her sistership were sold to India and South Africa respectively, while HMS Vanguard became a much loved museum ship and Ark Royal were scrapped.

Naturally the engineering success of the British would not stop with boats, planes and cars. In early 1960, Blue Streak – famed for its role in putting Smith and Radford into space, albeit briefly - became operational as a delivery system for atomic warheads. The criticism of Blue Streak however would in the end lead to the development of submarine-based missiles like the Peregrin. Blue Streak’s underground launch sites were far too vulnerable to a pre-emptive strike and the fuel used gave the missile a long fueling time. The first British Ballistic Submarine, HMS Dreadnought, put to sea in late 1962 and Blue Streak was officially replaced by Peregrin Submarine Launched Ballistic Missile system in the summer of 1963 as Britain's atomic deterrent. Submarine-based missiles continue to be the British atomic delivery system to the present day. The dozen Blue Streak underground launch sites, named silos in the US, are to this day used as bomb shelters and emergency control facilities by the RAF.
 
Hello all!
Sorry for the long delay, and thanks a lot for all the comments and good ideas (in that regard, please post away, Birdie - your suggestions and ideas are most usefull)!

I don't know how often I'll be able to update my various ATL's as I've just started at the University and still have a job, girl friend, friends and what not, but I'll do my best! :)

Those are some dan cool pics btw! Well done, Lounge!

I'm sorry if the Hungarian Scandal-thingie dosn't explaine itself better. It's basically an excuse used by Eden and Xuma to purge Communist elements in SA, and yes, it went a bit too far!

Suez will happen, albeit slightly diffenretly as Ortillery put an end to the Egyptians advance on the Channel Zone.

I know there's a lot of stuff I didn't get to answer, but I'll try to catch up along the way!

This post was another split post, which would explaine why it's not longer than it is, and mostly a piece meant to add colour to the setting.

Hope you like it!

My regards!

- Bluenote.
 
Nice bit about cultural change in Britain. I like it. Again, the way the diplomatic relation go between Britain/Commonwealth and U.S. will affect the Canadian greatly. There will be some, or lot, that want closer relation as in OTL, but with relation between them cool down, we may see later generation of politician run on American-skeptic platform to gain vote. Might be something interesting there in the 50s and 60s, especially after the Suez Crisis.
 
Part VI
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way!
- Will Rogers.

Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.
- Theodore Roosevelt.

As British troops now had finished their withdrawal from many of the world’s potential hotspots or left the main burden of providing security to local forces – like the Don Light Horse in Northern Rhodesia, the number of young men called to do time in the National Service (a less warlike synonyme for conscription if you will) was scaled down from 12,000 a month to some 3,000. Generally speaking public opinion was behind the idea of National Service as it was clear that the post-war world was not a safe or stable place. As proven by the recently successfully concluded French campaign in Indo-China and the escalating conflict in Algeria, not to mention the Belgian mess in Congo and the Soviet Union’s hamfisted rampaging in its own backyard. National Service also played a vital role in boosting the standing army - even with its decreased commitment to the Empire, there was stil roughly 60,000 British troops posted around the world – and to introduce men into the Military who would otherwise not have considered serving. It is quite telling, that some 70% of the officer corps in the later 50’s and early 60’s were former National Servicemen.

Along with Elizabeths II’s ascention to the throne and the birth of the British Space Programme another very British tradition was born in the early 50’s as well - Racing.

Once the War had ended in 1945 and the British military gradually scaled back there suddenly were a high number of redundant airfields – not only in Britain itself, but around the world. The now famous Silverstone was one of these left-over airfields. In early 1948, the Royal Automobile Club approached the Air Ministry and was granted the use of Silverstone without much fuss. On October 2nd, 1948, Silverstone’s first racing event took place and was follwed be a series of sposored racing event for the next years f.x. - the Formula One Daily Express International Trophy open for Commonwealth citizens. The races were immensely popular and spectators flocked to the old airfield.

In 1950 the World Drivers’ Championship was created and the very first World Championship – which naturally was open for all nationalities - took place at Silverstone on May the 13th. It was a significant occasion for motor sport and the event was awarded the title of the European Grand Prix. The event was attended by King George VI, princess Elizabeth and other members of the upper crust. As Queen, Elizabeth II would return to Silverstone on nummerous occasions and seemed to be quite the racing fan. The original races had been dominated by Australians and British, but soon found the Italian drivers to be fierce competitors. After having lost to the Italians for a series of years, former RAF-pilots Brian Trubshaw – an employee of and driver for Bentley – and Ronald Harker – driving for an independent - finally brought the trophy back on British hands in 1958 and 59. The 50’s would establish the intense rivalry between the Italian automobile industry headed by Alfa Romeo and Ferrari and the British ditto headed by Aston Martin and Bentley. Later Mercedes-Benz and Ford would force their way into the racing elite with a series of sprtacular victories in the early 60’s. Trubshaw were by the way knighted in 1969, and made a lord in 1982. Harker died driving one of Morgan’s powerfull monocock cars at Brands Hatch in 1961, and was thus indirectly responsible for a lot of the restrcitions now placed on the various racing championships.

The late 50’s also brought with it the first new capital ships built in Britain since the end of the War. For almost 15 years the Royal Navy had scaled down and sold off ships, if not simply scrapping them. The habit of selling ships had indirectly led to an arms race in South America where Argentine, Brazil and Chile each viewed the others with great suspicion and thus found it necessary the match any and all steps taken by one of the others. A lot of elderly Royal Navy ships, along with planes, tanks and other surplus military equipement found its way to said countries in the late 40’s and early 50’s before the United States of America put a stop to it – which of course did little to endear the Americans to the British and thus brought with it another low in diplomatic relations.,

For some time the two only major capital ships – not counting the handfull of heavy cruisers - of the Royal Navy had been the battlehip HMS Vanguard and the fleet carrier HMS Ark Royal. Both ships were now placed in reserve as the new 47,000 tonnes fleet carriers HMS Malta and HMS Queen Elizabeth I raised their commands with much pomp. The two Malta’s would later in the late 60’s be supplemented by two atomic fleet carriers, HMS King George V and HMS Hood. Big George and Hood were truly monsters and packed a massive punch in form of the largest – some 120 aircraft contra the about 80 or so on the Malta’s - and most advanced air wings ever seen upon the Seven Seas – actually just one of these mammoth ships carried more planes than most air forces. As two further King George V class atomic carries were comissioned and put to sea in the 70’s, HMS Malta and her sistership were sold to India and South Africa respectively, while HMS Vanguard became a much loved museum ship and Ark Royal were scrapped.

Naturally the engineering success of the British would not stop with boats, planes and cars. In early 1960, Blue Streak – famed for its role in putting Smith and Radford into space, albeit briefly - became operational as a delivery system for atomic warheads. The criticism of Blue Streak however would in the end lead to the development of submarine-based missiles like the Peregrin. Blue Streak’s underground launch sites were far too vulnerable to a pre-emptive strike and the fuel used gave the missile a long fueling time. The first British Ballistic Submarine, HMS Dreadnought, put to sea in late 1962 and Blue Streak was officially replaced by Peregrin Submarine Launched Ballistic Missile system in the summer of 1963 as Britain's atomic deterrent. Submarine-based missiles continue to be the British atomic delivery system to the present day. The dozen Blue Streak underground launch sites, named silos in the US, are to this day used as bomb shelters and emergency control facilities by the RAF.


glad your back- liked the bit on racing.

so does National Service survive in the UK then-albiet at a reduced level?.

HMS Ark Royal did have a sister ship- HMS Eagle- both were finally commisioned in the early 50's having been built since late 40's.- getting rid of them in the 60's might be considered a waste of money- unless of course your thinking financial considerations are still a major force in such a decision.

glad you kept Vanguard around longer and then as a museum ship.

wonder what star trek will be like in TTL?
 
wonder what star trek will be like in TTL?

If my opnion count.

The show will have the same concept, plus a few change here and there. Now, there will be three faction in it. The Fed, proud, peaceful and defender of everything right. The Klingon, cruel, untrustworthy and expansionist. And, the Ancient(whatever the name) An ancient race, old, advanced with arrogant and smugness attitude. The two will be really uneasy with each other as the only thing they have in common is that they didn't like the Klingon and vice versa. There will be many times that the two will come close to blowing each othe off the map of the galaxy, but captain Kirk always save the day( which everytime the Fed will be the right side and the Ancient end up appologize for their arrogant attitude that cause the problem in the first place)

Just my muse here.
 
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