Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey question

Pangur

Donor
The V-22 would seem to have had a somewhat troubled beginning however considering its quite different to whats existed before then that does not completely surprise me and its not unknown for aircraft with a development history like that to come good as it were. So to the question. How likely is that V-22 will sell widely? I believe that Canada, India and UAE have shown various degrees of interest. So apart from them what other nation might purchase them? I was thinking Israel Turkey and UK for starters. The Aussies for the new helicopters they are building is another option
 

JRScott

Banned
Well the Royal Navy has considered it since its inception almost, so yes the UK.

Canada, Israel, UAE, and Norway have also investigated it.

I would think potentially any NATO country might be a prospective buyer and any country with strong military ties like Israel or Japan. Though Japan's preferred method is to build their own through licensing contracts which could limit them.
 

Pangur

Donor
I would think potentially any NATO country might be a prospective buyer and any country with strong military ties like Israel or Japan. Though Japan's preferred method is to build their own through licensing contracts which could limit them.

I would not have seen the Japanese preference for local production as an issue as I am pretty sure that they have build locally quite a bit
 
I think pretty much any country with a carrier could find a use for one, though whether all of them could afford one...
 

JRScott

Banned
I would not have seen the Japanese preference for local production as an issue as I am pretty sure that they have build locally quite a bit

Its not so much that Japan couldn't build it themselves, its just that I'm not sure the United States would share the necessary technology to do so. They produce their own versions of several US helicopters though. UH-60J and AH-60J for instance.
 

Pangur

Donor
I think pretty much any country with a carrier could find a use for one, though whether all of them could afford one...

True however carriers are not exactly cheap so if you buy/build one why on earth would not equip it properly?
 
True however carriers are not exactly cheap so if you buy/build one why on earth would not equip it properly?

This is a common mistake people make, and I believe it's caused by thinking about the issue as if it was one in which practical concerns were uppermost. In actual fact political concerns will often trump them, and short-term expediency will blind decision-makers to potential drawbacks if the equipment has to actually be used in anything but the most permissive environments. This short-sightedness costs lives and is in my opinion far more expensive in the long run, but it is remarkably consequence-free - usually any unpleasant repercussions occur during a later administration, and in any case it's the taxpayer and the soldiers/sailors/airmen who will bear the brunt of them.

Example: the New Zealand airforce purchased some Boeing 727 aircraft for it's transport fleet. This was quite an expensive purchase, and in order to save money they were directed to specify engines less powerful than those usually fitted. This increased the runway length required for takeoff with a heavy load. It was important, however, because New Zealand is a considerable distance from it's nearest neighbour. This lead to a situation in which the aircraft could not take off from military airbases with enough fuel on board to fly to the closest neighbouring country (Australia) because the engines were not powerful enough to take off in the existing runway length. Instead they had to take off, fly to a civilian airport, fuel up, and then use the longer runway to take off with a full load.

Anyone with military experience (and probably most people without) will be able to relate similar examples, where the most idiotic decisions get made just because they're slightly cheaper right now, no matter how penny-wise and pound-foolish they are in the long run.

Addition: to be fair budgets are limited, and it is not always possible to afford the ideal piece of kit for the job at hand. In general we have to hope that what we get is "good enough" and available in sufficient quantity for the task. It's a bad sign when a military has equipment that it can't afford to lose, or train with - there are stories about Australian AT troops drawing straws to see who would fire this years live Milan ATGM.
 

Riain

Banned
Australia is building MRH90s which will last 30 or so years, we won't be buying Ospreys.

I think that the Osprey will have to mature and it's price drop before it gets exported widely. Just as an aside IIUC the USMC has abandonded the over the horizon landing concept that the Osprey was developed for.
 

Riain

Banned
They won't be getting rid of them, but the Osprey, the LCAC and the now cancelled high speed AMTRACK were all part of an over the horizon assault doctrine, so the USMC could assault defended shores while keeping the ships below the horizon. Now I think they're doing something different, perhaps not assault defended shores but more like the British in the Falklands, land where there aren't stacks of defences.
 

Pangur

Donor
They won't be getting rid of them, but the Osprey, the LCAC and the now cancelled high speed AMTRACK were all part of an over the horizon assault doctrine, so the USMC could assault defended shores while keeping the ships below the horizon. Now I think they're doing something different, perhaps not assault defended shores but more like the British in the Falklands, land where there aren't stacks of defences.

Thanks for that - I was not aware of this.
 
Even with folded rotors, they still have a wingspan of almost 46 feet.

True, but if your ship has a big enough helicopter deck, you could use a V-22 from a destroyer-sized vessel, or any such ship with a large enough helicopter deck. Anything that can operate a Sea King could probably use an Osprey.
 

Riain

Banned
The wing of the V22 pivots to stow along the axis of the fuselage, it's really quite neat and only has deck footprint 1.4 times that of a CH46 Sea Knight. You'll notice now that even quite small frigates have huge landing decks to operate the likes of the SH60, EH101 and MRH90 so I'd thin you could operate a V22 on many of those sorts of ships. What they'd be doing there is another question entirely.
 
Most aircraft don't take well to being stuck outside for long periods though, so if you're going to operate the things (as opposed to just let them land occasionally) they you're definitely going to want a hanger that can take them.
 
I think it would only have taken a small butterfly for the MOD to look seriously at the Osprey as a replacement for the Sea King, Puma and Lynx for most applications. It would potentially mean that the Merlin is still born. The USAF had a couple of Ospreys in the UK in early 1993. Whether they were there for evaluation or if they were an early recipient, I don't know. The unit that had them were not a run of the mill line squadron.
 
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