Lands of Ice and Mice: An Alternate History of the Thule

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Even OTL, the remoteness of the area and the toughness of the locals meant the Russians had trouble establishing control over the far NE: the Kamchatka peninsula wasn't fully conquered until the 1730s, and the Chukchi not until the second half of the 18th century: it's going to be...interesting... ATL. One wonders if the sort of military buildup that this will require leads to a stronger Russian in eastern Siberia in the 19th century.

Bruce

I don't think the Chukchi were actually conquered in the formal sense. The war went on, it was brutal, the Chukchi actually took the head of a particularly hated Russian general and kept it as a trophy.

Eventually, the Russians gave up. The cost of running a fort in the area was prohibitive.

The next year, they opened a trading post, and soon enough, the Chukchi became dependent upon them.

There's a lesson there.

But yes, it's going to be nasty.

It's also a couple of hundred years and the wrong continent from where I want to be.

So, onwards and upwards to an evaluation and itemization of the Norse Interchange....
 
So the Tlingit (who were pretty hardcore by any standards) are now in the Fraser/Puget area? That area, once it gets going, really gets going. And especially when people like the Tlingit start getting involved. Are the Haida still on the HG/QC Islands? A naval war of sorts might happen due to the Haida/Tlingit/Salish rivalry.
 
"This stinks. How do you stand it?"

"You get used to it."

"I can’t believe you live among them. It’s been what, two years now?"

"Three."

"Unbelievable."

"You might find it more believable if you visited more often."

"I’ve been busy grandfather, attending to all your needs."

"We’ll speak of that soon. What news?"

"I finally found a place where your new carrots and onions will grow."

"Great Island?"

"Yes, but better on the mainlands. They require care."

"Popular?"

"Somewhat. They’re a new thing, all the shaman come from all over to see what its like and spread it around."

"As I expected."

"The iron is more popular. One of their knives, worth four caribou."

"Expected. Did you bring the copper boys?"

"I did, they complained and snivelled every step of the way. You’ve never seen such whiny little bastards. You can’t imagine how unbearable it was."

"I’m sure I can’t."

......

......

"Was that sarcasm?"

"Why would you say that?"

".... I’m not sure. Tell me, do you think the boys will find work."

"They’ve few young people around here. They are not good at making sure their children grow up."

"I see the marks of winter famine all about. They’re a mangy people, these."

"Indeed. But their hardship is our advantage. They need hands, more hands than they have."

"And so their smith will teach them all his secrets? I am sceptical, grandfather."

"He’s childless, lame, his wife is barren... or he is. He has no one to pass his trade on."

"I’ll believe it when I see it.... So, grandfather...."

"Yes."

"Who is this?"

"Ahh, that’s my wife."

"You married one of them? Are you out of your mind?"

"How so?"

"You’re old! What are you doing, going around marrying women at your age?"

"The spirit enters into me, and she seems to like it well enough when I enter her."

"That’s disgusting, grandfather! And anyway, she’s long in the tooth."

"First you complain I’m too old for a wife, and now you say that she’s too old for me? She’s half my age."

"And well worn, you won’t get a child out of her."

"She’s pregnant."

"Grandfather!"

"Hush boy, or she’ll become concerned."

"Can she understand us?"

"No, she can’t. None of them can. A few words here and there is the best they can do. They are not bright, these people."

"What does she think of the rest of your wives?"

"I haven’t mentioned it. They’re not understanding of things like that. They believe in only one wife to a man, no matter how great. It is ordained by their God. We had a ceremony in their big stone house and everything. I had to have water poured on my head."

"That explains a lot about how few children they breed."

"Indeed."

"Any luck teaching them anything useful?"

"Not really. They are set in their ways. I showed them how to plant proper crops, but they would not wait. They pulled them all up after a year and ate them, and then lay around claiming how their bellied hurt. They are like children these people, no patience. Their impulse is their enemy, they have no judgement, they have but to see something or think of something, and they act on it. They cannot hold themselves, will not see further down the road. Even their dogs are inferior animals, no patience, no heart."

"Then why do you keep wasting your time with them. Grandfather, come back with me, you have made a sufficient name for yourself. These people are fools, they cannot learn, they will not be taught. They had a few vegetables to offer, that’s it."

"Look at this. Take it in your hands. Feel it, feel the weave."

"Cloth."

"Remarkable, isn’t it."

"Somewhat."

"My wife made it. Yesterday."

"What?"

"That contraption she is playing at. That’s how she makes it."

"Astonishing. How?"

"It’s a simple thing, when you get the hang of it. She taught me. Tomorrow, I’ll start on teaching you. But there’s more. I have the animals she makes it from."

"Astonishing. What kind of animal?"

"A funny thing, like a tiny hornless caribou, but with long curly hair. They call it a ‘sheep.’"

"That thing I passed, on my way in."

"The same. I have traded many caribou for a few pairs. You will take them with you. But be careful with them, they are not rugged."

"All those caribou. What happens, Grandfather, when they’ve got their own herd?"

"They won’t. They are like children. The notion is foreign to them. They will mind their own herds, their ‘cows’ and ‘pigs’ and ‘sheep’, but the caribou they will slaughter for meat."

"What of these ‘cows’ and ‘pigs’, are they of any use?"

"Inferior animals. They do not handle the winter well, these foolish people spend much time and effort to sustain them, and still they do poorly."

"Sheep then, and cloth, you’ve done well to call me back, Grandfather. I will take your gifts with me, and all will know your name."

"There is another thing."

"What is this you put in my hands, Grandfather."

"They call it a bible. Handle it with care, I have this only on loan. Open it up."

"What is this in it, Grandfather."

"It is their speech."

"Say again."

"It is their speech, their language, but the sounds are made as marks."

......

......

"They’re fucking with you, Grandfather."

"No, I say. I tested them. I took this from one to the other, having them speak out the passages that they saw as marks. The words were the same again and again."

"So what are their words, Grandfather. What tale is in this bible."

"Oh just crazy shit. Something about a flood, and a great big boat, an angry god who harasses them and burns a city, and a bunch of kings, and mad little men doing mad little things to each other. There’s a man who claims to be from their God, but they crucify him and then feel bad. Total fucking unbelievable nonsense."

"Then what’s the point?"

"The idea is sound. It’s the mark of these people that they come up with something sensible, and then use it for the craziest nonsense that they can come up with. But the principle - to take speech and remove it to marks on paper or leather, that has possibilities. Here, let me show you. I have taken their notion, and made my own. This here, this is the sounds of our speech, each mark here means a sound. So if I read them aloud, the words that are written are spoken."

"So what good does it do you to reduce your speech to marks, and then to speak the marks. Waste of time if you ask me."

"Ah, but then they are there. Someone else can speak them, and hear my words through their mouth."

"Sounds like evil magic. To speak words through someone else’s mouth."

"Just magic."

"I don’t really see the point."

"I could write on this, and then give my words to be carried like a knife or a skin, and a shaman on the other side of the world could read them and know my words."

"How would they know what the marks mean."

"Okay, so there are a few flaws. I’m working on it. I will teach you the meanings. You will teach others."

"Sounds like a lot of work to no good effect. Why not just go to the one you wish to speak to, and say it directly."

"Because I’m getting old, you whiny little bastard. I feel it in my bones. Four wives are almost too much for me, and the travel back and forth for them is killing me. I’m stuck out here at the ass edge of the world, and even if I had the time and inclination, I am less and less inclined to make the journey. Better that I could send out my message in writing."

"People carry messages. You tell them, they tell another."

"How reliable."

"Reliable enough."

"Well, this will be better."

"Stick with carrots and sheep, grandfather, this will never catch on."
 
"We'll see."

"Come back with me, grandfather. You've been among them too long, the smell of them, their filth. They're a dying race, grandfather, as the timid giants of our homelands. They suffer and starve each winter, the marks are on them clearly. Their children die. Their crops are crap and they barely have the wit to farm, their animals are poor. There's little that they have to offer, and they have not the patience or cleverness to benefit from your teaching."

"All of these things are true, and yet, there is still value to be learned from them."

"Crazy stories of floods and half gods nailed to trees? Vegetables you practically need to sit on to make them grow? Middle aged women with maybe one child left in them?"

"Don't be impertinent. Our names have risen for the things we've won from them. And there's more."

"More?"

"These people. They are not from here. They come from somewhere else."

"So."

"There was a boat here a year or two ago, but made of wood all of wood, and a hundred times bigger than our biggest boat. It moved by magic, no oars, just catching the wind as if in great hands. These people are failing here, but elsewhere who knows."

"So somewhere out on the water, there's an even bigger island of drooling morons? Who cares."

"Islands, they tell me. Lands they tell me. Kings and kingdoms. And even if they're feeble half witted bastards, still, they have a handful of marvels and accomplishments to their name."

"Okay, whatever."

"Mark my words, Grandson, they're out there, and they may be dangerous. Best to take their measures now."
 
 
 
 
 
 
Ooh nice.

This grandfather is quite the genius tho.

As much opportunist as genius.

In a sense, this is part of what the Thule Shamanic tradition is about at this time. Theologically, or mystically, it's about interceding with the spirits of the land, placating them and earning their good will. And there's a great deal of ritual, twaddle of various sorts, singing and dancing.

But the spirits of land don't communicate directly, so there's a need to be continually observant and opportunistic. If you find something that works, you pick it up and spread it around.

Several Shaman's have made a reputation by identifying and spreading innovations, or attaching themselves to same. The one who spread the Ptarmigan, for instance.

Shaman's have also earned a social role as arbiters, working out or negotiating between groups, particularly on issues of resource allocation and exchange. They're not quite traders per se, concepts of value and allocation are working differently.

In the case of these two, they're tightly connected to the Ellesmere trading network, so their penchant for observation and opportunism is rather more driven.

The role and duties of a Shaman, as you can see from this, has evolved substantially and well away from the classical Shaman of only a few hundred years ago in the Thule, or which is still prevalent among hunter gatherer cultures.

There are still classic Shamans in Thule society, performing healing for the sick, interceding with nature spirits and blessing the hunts. But there's all sorts of other guys in the field and other kinds of tradition evolving.

Finally, the route taken by Grandfather, insinuating himself in the community, taking a wife, learning the language, converting and becoming the effective interface between the two cultures isn't all that different from the British and French fur traders.

And the results are not all that different. The local culture doesn't change much initially, except that there's a tolerated outsider who brings benefits. The outer culture experiences a benefit - furs in the one case, and a small trickle of iron, woven goods and innovations in the other.

Shaman I take it?

Both grandfather and grandson, yes.
 
Oh and please forgive my use of literary narrative techniques to establish the bridge between Thule and Norse.

In one sense, Grandfather and Grandson are not necessary for the Norse interchange. By this time, the Agricultural Thule are in Greenland, and the Ellesmere trading network is established. So the stage is set for some kind of significant exchange within a 20 to 50 year span. If Grandfather was not around, there'd still be some form of exchanges being set up, and innovations and objects flowing back and forth. Possibly more slowly. But on pretty much the same terms of interest.

This is actually an interesting case of inequalities. This is a very unusual situation where the technologically superior culture is markedly weaker.
 
As much opportunist as genius.

In a sense, this is part of what the Thule Shamanic tradition is about at this time. Theologically, or mystically, it's about interceding with the spirits of the land, placating them and earning their good will. And there's a great deal of ritual, twaddle of various sorts, singing and dancing.

But the spirits of land don't communicate directly, so there's a need to be continually observant and opportunistic. If you find something that works, you pick it up and spread it around.

Several Shaman's have made a reputation by identifying and spreading innovations, or attaching themselves to same. The one who spread the Ptarmigan, for instance.

Shaman's have also earned a social role as arbiters, working out or negotiating between groups, particularly on issues of resource allocation and exchange. They're not quite traders per se, concepts of value and allocation are working differently.

In the case of these two, they're tightly connected to the Ellesmere trading network, so their penchant for observation and opportunism is rather more driven.

The role and duties of a Shaman, as you can see from this, has evolved substantially and well away from the classical Shaman of only a few hundred years ago in the Thule, or which is still prevalent among hunter gatherer cultures.

There are still classic Shamans in Thule society, performing healing for the sick, interceding with nature spirits and blessing the hunts. But there's all sorts of other guys in the field and other kinds of tradition evolving.

Finally, the route taken by Grandfather, insinuating himself in the community, taking a wife, learning the language, converting and becoming the effective interface between the two cultures isn't all that different from the British and French fur traders.

And the results are not all that different. The local culture doesn't change much initially, except that there's a tolerated outsider who brings benefits. The outer culture experiences a benefit - furs in the one case, and a small trickle of iron, woven goods and innovations in the other.

Of course.

And I can see the Thule word(s)* for Shaman becoming translated onto different equivalents depending on what the context is and who is doing the meeting: Merchant, Legate, Advisor, Pastor, etc.

Basically the Thulian word will have a deeper semantic meaning than "Shaman" does OTL


*Possibly still Angakkuq and variants
 
DV this pretty effing brilliant! I particularly love the irreverent and significantly crustier shamans. I do hope this is now in the font-burners so to speak, given how I'm still undergoing green-Antarctica withdrawal :D:D
 
I've got to post to Axis of Andes this week, I promised.

And I do keep meaning to get back to Green Antarctica. It's just someone blew my climax for Mask of Lovecraft, so I've got to rethink it a bit. There's all sorts of scenes from the White Age that are waiting to be written. But then, we're almost at the age of Captain Cook.

And then there's Moontrap. I have to go and read through that over again, and figure out where I'm going with it next.

But yeah, the Norse interchange is hot, hot, hot.
 
Of course.

And I can see the Thule word(s)* for Shaman becoming translated onto different equivalents depending on what the context is and who is doing the meeting: Merchant, Legate, Advisor, Pastor, etc.

Basically the Thulian word will have a deeper semantic meaning than "Shaman" does OTL


*Possibly still Angakkuq and variants


A lot of variants on Angakkuq. The role and functions of Shaman's have been fluid and dramatically expanding the last couple of centuries. Semantically/theologically, its still the wild west. Anyone with a tall hat who can claim some expertise can be a Shaman. But its getting tougher and tougher, there's increasing specialization, and 'accreditation' and status are increasingly based on respect and recognition from other Shamans. 'Shamanic' politics are getting pretty intense and occasionally bitter. That's a significant part of the reason Grandfather hied on over to Greenland on the basis of some funny stories and trinkets, instead of staying on the southern parts of Baffin Island and bouncing grandchildren on his knee.
 
Fuck the cloth, fuck the language.

We have polygynous marriage with little patriarchal care about father identity? This is fricking amazing. The wife must be barren… or the smith. Why the smith second? Because any right minded human woman would have filled her womb with fruitful seed, and the men—or at least the clever men—know, accept, and normalise this as proper and moral conduct.

Just woah. That's an amazing cultural capacity to survive massive population losses. Look at how Grandfather treats the breeding of people like the breeding of animals, systematically and as a social function. These are a people who can survive horrific population losses without collapse. They're prepared for it by Winter.

Anyway, the access to written language looks like other aggressive agricultural adoptions of language—Maori for example come to mind.

Anyway, I haven't even finished reading this update and Grandfather's actions are amazing.

yours,
Sam R.
 
Oh and please forgive my use of literary narrative techniques to establish the bridge between Thule and Norse.

In one sense, Grandfather and Grandson are not necessary for the Norse interchange. By this time, the Agricultural Thule are in Greenland, and the Ellesmere trading network is established. So the stage is set for some kind of significant exchange within a 20 to 50 year span. If Grandfather was not around, there'd still be some form of exchanges being set up, and innovations and objects flowing back and forth. Possibly more slowly. But on pretty much the same terms of interest.

This is actually an interesting case of inequalities. This is a very unusual situation where the technologically superior culture is markedly weaker.

I strongly disagree that Grandfather isn't necessary. The trading network's opportunity would have called forth a Grandfather from any distance. The probability of a Grandfather existing is particularly high. Late age men with no name who seek to make a name before dying. Late age men made fresh by interactions with youth. There'd be one out there. This one is average to good in terms of brightness—he doesn't get cross-cultural craziness as internal logic, and can't extrapolate into a sociology of otherness—but he's damn bright enough to pursue an obvious "academic" opportunity given he's going to die soon. I think the Thule have the cultural capital to produce Grandfathers at edge zones. The resentment from being at the periphery helps too.

I concur on all other points.

yours,
Sam R.
 
I strongly disagree that Grandfather isn't necessary. The trading network's opportunity would have called forth a Grandfather from any distance. The probability of a Grandfather existing is particularly high. Late age men with no name who seek to make a name before dying. Late age men made fresh by interactions with youth. There'd be one out there. This one is average to good in terms of brightness—he doesn't get cross-cultural craziness as internal logic, and can't extrapolate into a sociology of otherness—but he's damn bright enough to pursue an obvious "academic" opportunity given he's going to die soon. I think the Thule have the cultural capital to produce Grandfathers at edge zones. The resentment from being at the periphery helps too.

I concur on all other points.

yours,
Sam R.

Well, I'll put it this way. The particular 'Grandfather' and 'Grandson' aren't necessary.

A person in that situation would need to be smart and ambitious. Only a smart and ambitious person would put themselves there, so its reasonable. He didn't have to be a genius and in fact geniuses are rare.

Looking at historical precedents, you can find endless examples of analogous characters from Britain and France in the American fur trade, or the East India or China trade - cultural straddlers, men who go partially native, but who establish themselves as conduits of transmission back to their culture. When you go looking, there's actually quite a lot of these guys.

But the cultural context here - makes 'a' Grandfather, or equivalent inevitable. Instead of a grandfather, might have been a middle aged guy, a young man, a woman, a trader, a farmer, a family or clan or group. It could have been a direct expedition from the Ellesmere trading network. Or local Greenland Thule finding themselves between Norse to the south and immigrants to the north. Might not have been this guy. Could have been another guy. Or several guys. But yes, it's a high probability that something like this will occur.

Thanks for the feedback.
 
Late age men with no name who seek to make a name before dying. Late age men made fresh by interactions with youth. There'd be one out there.

(from the book-jacket)

Angakkuq Tallhat was looking for trade opportunities with the pale giants of the Thule Empire's western frontier. What he found was Sigrid, the wife of the last smith on Greenland. When sparks literally fly, these two people must overcome the barriers of language and culture to find some warmth in THE COLDEST LAND.

(available from Harlequin Books this February!)
 
IIRC, the Norse traditionally utilized bog iron for many of their ironworking needs. While it still needs smelting, it's probably an easier resource to find than iron ore in the ground, the Thule have lots of experience with massive land engineering projects, and the crazy water table in the Canadian Arctic means there are a ton of anoxic habitats where iron ore nodules should form.
 
(from the book-jacket)

Angakkuq Tallhat was looking for trade opportunities with the pale giants of the Thule Empire's western frontier. What he found was Sigrid, the wife of the last smith on Greenland. When sparks literally fly, these two people must overcome the barriers of language and culture to find some warmth in THE COLDEST LAND.

(available from Harlequin Books this February!)

Oh wow, you're the Dan Bensen! I took part in Spec for a few years after you stopped playing a role. Wrote a bunch of essays, but couldn't draw for crap, and the project seemed to have (mostly) petered out anyway.
 
I took part in Spec for a few years after you stopped playing a role. Wrote a bunch of essays, but couldn't draw for crap, and the project seemed to have (mostly) petered out anyway.

I'm sorry to hear that. I'm sorry that nobody could really keep the group going after I left. But a lot of the old art is still up on Deviantart. Anyway I'm much more excited about my current projects <rubs hands together>

Anyway, is there any way to encourage bog iron to form? Or do you just have find some that's already there? If you could, for example, dump rust and mine tailings into a swamp and come back next year and pull out a chunk of iron, that would mesh very well with the role of the Thule shamans.

Another idea about shamans that occurred to me. If what is going on with Grandfather among the Greenland Norse is a normal practice, then I can see shamans (or one school of shamans) evolving into a diplomatic corps. At some point, trade networks will become robust enough (and non-Thule people productive enough) that neighboring peoples will be more useful as trading partners than imperial conquests. I can see people like Grandfather as missionary/diplomats/market researchers, smoothing the way for subsequent trade. This tradition, if it becomes established across the Thule frontiers, will be very useful in <ahem> Asia. :)
 
Anyway, is there any way to encourage bog iron to form? Or do you just have find some that's already there? If you could, for example, dump rust and mine tailings into a swamp and come back next year and pull out a chunk of iron, that would mesh very well with the role of the Thule shamans.

Another idea about shamans that occurred to me. If what is going on with Grandfather among the Greenland Norse is a normal practice, then I can see shamans (or one school of shamans) evolving into a diplomatic corps. At some point, trade networks will become robust enough (and non-Thule people productive enough) that neighboring peoples will be more useful as trading partners than imperial conquests. I can see people like Grandfather as missionary/diplomats/market researchers, smoothing the way for subsequent trade. This tradition, if it becomes established across the Thule frontiers, will be very useful in <ahem> Asia. :)

Going by this page, Bog iron regenerates about once every generation, so over the longer term, the Thule should be able to figure out how to enhance cultivation.

The two needed elements seem to be mountain runoff (for minerals), and boggy, anoxic wetlands (as only in the absence of oxygen will the bacteria that make iron ore take off). I would guess that the taiga-adapted Thule cultures, with their concentration on wetland crops, would be able to work this into their aqueous engineering pretty quickly.

Interestingly, it also says that the Norse IOTL harvested bog iron in Vinland.
 
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