Lands of Ice and Mice: An Alternate History of the Thule

[DG Valdron]

“He’s just squatting there,” Olaf said to Lars.

“I can see that,” Lars replied.

“The rest of them are way over there.”

“Is it some sort of trap.”

“Sure it’s a trap.”

“What’s the trap then.”

“If we could see it, then it wouldn’t be a trap.” Olaf snapped, “dolt, there are probably scores of them all around us.”

“How?”

“What?”

“How, there’s nothing out here, we can see every which way.”

“Well, they’re up to something.”

“So what should we do?”

“I think we should go up there and chop off his head, the whole bunch of us.”

“He’s smiling. The bastard is mocking us.”

“Let’s see him smile when I put a spear through his guts.”

“Good. You go and do it, we’ll be right behind you.”

“What?”

“We’ll be right behind you. We got your back.”

“Wait a second. I thought we’d attack all together, you know, as one.”

“Yeah, that’s good but....”

“But...”

“There’s just one guy. Go take care of it.”

“But he’s probably a witch or something. He’s dressed all funny, and he’s got beads and pouches and things.”

“So.”

“What if he curses us.”

“That’s why you have to go up alone, that way, if you’re cursed, the rest of us can help.”

“Help a curse? How?”

“Stop being a baby, go up there and cut his head off.”

“I’m not stupid, you go!”

“How about we both go. The rest of you men stay back, we’ll wave when its clear.”

“Okay.”

“Let’s go then.”


“He’s not doing anything, he’s just sitting there.”

“He’s smiling at us, that’s something.”


“Look at all that stuff around. It’s like he’s having a feast, right here in the middle of nowhere.”

“He’s eating something.”

“Doesn’t look natural.”

“He’s handing a piece of it to you.”

“Fuck you, he’s not handing it to me, he’s handing it to you.”

“What do I do?”

“Take it, idiot.”

........

“So what’s it like.”

“Feels like a root, kind of like a turnip or a carrot or something.”

“What’s it smell like?”

“I dunno, nothing much I guess.”

“He’s eating it. You try it.”


“Why me?”

“He gave it to you.”

“But what if its poisoned or cursed.”

“Well, he’s eating it. Should be okay.”

“Then you eat it.”

“You’re such a baby. Give it to me then.”

“So.... what’s it taste like.”

“Carrot. Sort of.”

“He’s still smiling. Now he’s handing me something else.”

“Take it and smile back.”

“Okay.”

“Wait till he eats it, could be a trick.”

“He’s eating it.”

“Try it.”
.....

“Wow, it tastes like shit.”

“Don’t spit it out, just smile at him like it doesn’t taste like shit. Don’t give
him the satisfaction.”

“You he gives carrots, I get crap.”

“It's not a carrot. It just tastes like it a little. Do you have any food on you?”

“I have a turnip, some jerky.”

“Give it to him.”

“I was saving that for lunch!”

“Give him the goddammed turnip.”

“He’s just looking at it.”

“Take it back, moron, take a bite, and give it back to him.”

“Okay, there we go.”
\
“I know what this is.”

“This funny paste?”

“No idiot. This is trade. Remember, when the Headman took us to Iceland, and we traded walrus tusks and bear hide in Reykjavik?”

“Well, there’s not much. We had a whole boat load. This is just a pack of stuff. I mean, its all just Skraeling junk.”

“Look at that.”

“It’s a bone ring on a string.”

“No, it’s a game. You see, the string is tied to a stick, and you have to swing the ring so it lands on the stick.”

“He’s handing it to you. It doesn’t look that hard.”

“So trade. He’s showing wares.”

“So what does he want? This is harder than it looks.”

“I don’t know. Some of this is copper, its nice. Give me your scarf.”

“My scarf? No. Give him your scarf, if you’re so hot for it.”

“I didn’t wipe my ass with my scarf. Give me yours.”

“I did not!”

“Oh come on, we saw you. Your wife washed that thing for half a day.”

“Give him yours.”

“I’m not giving up my scarf. Stop being a baby. And stop playing with that thing, you’re not looking like a tough warrior. Just put the ring through the stick and stop playing about.”

“Its tough.”

“It’s not that tough. Jesus, what’s wrong with you. The scarf.”

“Oh all right.”

“Before he makes us eat something again.”

 

[DG Valdron]

While I expect the European disease cocktail to do terrible things,

It will. But not in a uniform way.

Perhaps as significantly as better immune systems, the Thule will have had some experience with epidemic diseases and vectors of transmission. There will be large die off, recurring epidemics, but things will be patchy.

northern Europeans do know a thing or two about dealing with cold, and if they can pick up the Thule agricultural package at all they might do considerably better farther north than OTL.

Possible, but not likely. In the south, arrowroot might be adopted, maybe cattails in limited capacity. The northern stuff takes too long to mature, the agriculture too culture specific. The preference is always to go with the crops you know, and adopting a new package is not done readily or easily.

There will be a likely demand for Roseroot however. Europeans may try their hand at that.

they aren't going to be as attracted to move into the tundra lands, even though there is gold to be had there.

The Gold bearing areas are far inland. There won't be a lot of it among the cultures that the Europeans will have the most contact with.

There'll be lunatic adventurers seeking gold in the interior, but they're going to cross some very tough territory, offend a lot of touch customers, and they're not going to make it. They will, however, inspire a deep seated europhobia among the mainland Thule of McKenzie/Coppermine and Alaskan region.

It's also part of my "Ice Arab" vision...

It's an interesting vision.

 

[Danbensen]

But I cling to the hope that there will indeed be more interest in and knowledge of the Arctic in the Euro-Atlantic meta-society, and by the time Europeans (or some Alt-USA perhaps, or much different Western Hemisphere offspring society) take a really keen interest in seriously developing the Arctic, they will have to do so in partnership with Thule in some guise.

Or the Thule raised the carrying capacity of the Arctic enough to make territory there worth it for Russia to further (over)extend its expansion into North America. Of course, to keep trans-beringian territory, the Tzar would need better naval power in the north Pacific, meaning higher stakes for the Russo-Japanese war.

 

[Daztur]

Also once the diseases hit eastern Thule they'll move west pretty damn fast and we'll have the European diseases in bits of the west coast that didn't get hit until much later IOTL.

 

[Danbensen]

Also once the diseases hit eastern Thule they'll move west pretty damn fast and we'll have the European diseases in bits of the west coast that didn't get hit until much later IOTL.

Ooh, good point. It looks like OTL Europeans got to the Pacific Northwest around 1780, earlier if you go south (the Spanish coming north) or north (the Russians coming south) of Seattle. Then it took a while for smallpox to cook in the population before an epidemic hit the Haida in 1862, which killed 95% of the population. If plague hits the Thule (when? The Algonquins on the East Coast were hit by smallpox in 1616, say it hits a Thule a generation later (1646), and it takes them a generation to flee to the Pacific coast (1676)), that's still almost 200 years of a head-start the Haida and other Northwest peoples will have in developing immunity (plus whatever technology the desperate refugees bring with them). Unless the Russians or the Japanese invade, Northwest Indians will be in a much stronger position ITTL than IOTL.

Also I did some date-fudging with horses, but conservatively it looks like horses still get introduced from the south starting in 1680 (with the Comanches), getting up as far as the Lakota in 1730, and then from there to the Thule. Possible butterflies are a separate introduction of horses in the north, more-rapid uptake by Thule or Thule-influenced people (who have a better understanding of animal labor), better trade-routs that spread horse-lore faster, or introduction of horses across the Pacific. Given DValdron's insistence on plausibility however (sigh), I suppose we won't see Mongol ponies on the prairie. Sigh again.

A ray of light shines, though, for sheep in Canada in the 1600s or even earlier, if the Greenland Norse still had some at the time of Thule contact. And sheep are always nice, I guess. Also a shepherd culture might help the development of Shevek's "Ice Arabs."

 

[Danbensen]

Oh, also, I'd like to do a portrait of a Thule shaman. Can someone point me to some good references, so I don't have to sift through the forum?

 

[DG Valdron]

He or she has a tall headpiece, often adorned with feather, furs or streamers of some sort.

Standard inuit fashion, but with lots of beads, copper, feathers, etc. sewn on. Belts and sashes containing pouches of all sorts and sizes. Tools on the hip, an awl, a small digging tool, knife. A staff with fetishes hanging from it. A small drum or rattle. They'll be a thorough site.

 

[Flashman]

Awesome story DValdron, as usual. Im really interested in the norse interchange- specifically, what will europeans make of a sudden influx of " Markland " Tea? Maybe less of a rush to get exploring with access to cheaper European made teas?

This may push back the Age of Exploration a bit.

 

[Falecius]

Edited map

I changed the map a bit according to fresh info and DValdron's corrections. It is still quite rough and if someone wants to work on it further he or she would be welcome as far as I am concerned.
I left Taimyria out of the Thule sphere because it seemed a bit too wankish to me, even if the Thule don't reach to the Kara Sea this way. There's no mention in the T so far of their encounters with the Nganasan peoples.
Maybe they settled Severnaja Zemlja though?

 

[The Sandman]

Something I just thought of: any chance of the Great Auk surviving as a domesticate or semi-domesticate/managed wild population, or is it still doomed?

 

[DG Valdron]

Something I just thought of: any chance of the Great Auk surviving as a domesticate or semi-domesticate/managed wild population, or is it still doomed?

Still doomed.

 

[Falecius]

Still doomed.

That's so sad... But I guess you can't have all.
About extinctions, I suppose the Polar Bears are enjoying this TL even less than the Innu.

 

[DG Valdron]

That's so sad... But I guess you can't have all.
About extinctions, I suppose the Polar Bears are enjoying this TL even less than the Innu.

They're not happy. No question about it.

 

[Danbensen]

What an awesome map. So it looks like the Thule extend westward to the Taymyr peninsula? Am I reading that right?

I am REALLY interested in what is going on along that border. The people there, even if they don't work iron or ride horses themselves, certainly knew of people who did (the Yakuts/Sakha are in the area at that time, pushed there by the Mongols. The Yakuts rode horses, and the Evenks might teach the Thule something about riding reindeer). The Golden Horde might be active in the region (the OTL Khate of Sibir extended to the Arctic Ocean, and that's without the opportunities brought by the Thule network to the area).

If the Thule exploit the land's of river and sea routes, they might come into contact with areas connected to the Mongol trade network, which might introduce smallpox and bubonic plague to the Thule earlier than if we wait for the Europeans to bring it. Interbreeding with the native Siberian peoples won't help much, but getting smallpox into the Thule sphere in the 1400s will have a big effect on the consequences of European contact in the 1500s. I'll wait before I speculate about that.

Anyway, the vulnerability of the native peoples of northeastern Siberia to smallpox in the OTL 1630s might imply they had little contact with the civilizations of Southern Eurasia, who would otherwise have brought the plagues earlier. So if you want to hold off Thule contact with the Russians or Mongols or Chinese, that can be your rationalization.

So there are a bunch of possible directions to go, any of which can be prevented by human bloody-mindedness, of course. But if any one of my suggestions actually happens, it'll have an effect this will on Russian eastward expansion in the 18th century, probably making it more difficult (unless of course an earlier introduction of smallpox causes a contraction of the Thule sphere out of Siberia, in which case the Cossaks and Pomoranians find an empty wilderness waiting for them, or run into a Thule re-conquest of the land). Extending even further into the mists of the future, if the Russians manage to establish themselves on the Pacific Coast, they will be well aware of a source of riches in Thule North America. Colonization and Conquest along the American northwest coast (ala OTL Alaska) might get a higher priority. But then comes the Russo-Japanese war, when an over-extended Russian naval power in the North Pacific snaps, and Meiji Japan casts its eye on exploiting the riches of the Pacific Northwest...

Whew. As always, I won't be disappointed if you discount or poke logical holes in any of this. The research itself is fun, and I think some of these pathways might even be plausible.

 

[Danbensen]

He or she has a tall headpiece, often adorned with feather, furs or streamers of some sort.

Standard inuit fashion, but with lots of beads, copper, feathers, etc. sewn on. Belts and sashes containing pouches of all sorts and sizes. Tools on the hip, an awl, a small digging tool, knife. A staff with fetishes hanging from it. A small drum or rattle. They'll be a thorough site.

Any OTL motifs I should incorporate in particular? Or TTL? I remember something a balance of opposing forces, which might be represented by interlocking or tessellated black-and-white designs. I'll do some sketches.

 

[Falecius]

What an awesome map. So it looks like the Thule extend westward to the Taymyr peninsula? Am I reading that right?

I am REALLY interested in what is going on along that border. The people there, even if they don't work iron or ride horses themselves, certainly knew of people who did (the Yakuts/Sakha are in the area at that time, pushed there by the Mongols. The Yakuts rode horses, and the Evenks might teach the Thule something about riding reindeer). The Golden Horde might be active in the region (the OTL Khate of Sibir extended to the Arctic Ocean, and that's without the opportunities brought by the Thule network to the area).

If the Thule exploit the land's of river and sea routes, they might come into contact with areas connected to the Mongol trade network, which might introduce smallpox and bubonic plague to the Thule earlier than if we wait for the Europeans to bring it. Interbreeding with the native Siberian peoples won't help much, but getting smallpox into the Thule sphere in the 1400s will have a big effect on the consequences of European contact in the 1500s. I'll wait before I speculate about that.

Anyway, the vulnerability of the native peoples of northeastern Siberia to smallpox in the OTL 1630s might imply they had little contact with the civilizations of Southern Eurasia, who would otherwise have brought the plagues earlier. So if you want to hold off Thule contact with the Russians or Mongols or Chinese, that can be your rationalization.

So there are a bunch of possible directions to go, any of which can be prevented by human bloody-mindedness, of course. But if any one of my suggestions actually happens, it'll have an effect this will on Russian eastward expansion in the 18th century, probably making it more difficult (unless of course an earlier introduction of smallpox causes a contraction of the Thule sphere out of Siberia, in which case the Cossaks and Pomoranians find an empty wilderness waiting for them, or run into a Thule re-conquest of the land). Extending even further into the mists of the future, if the Russians manage to establish themselves on the Pacific Coast, they will be well aware of a source of riches in Thule North America. Colonization and Conquest along the American northwest coast (ala OTL Alaska) might get a higher priority. But then comes the Russo-Japanese war, when an over-extended Russian naval power in the North Pacific snaps, and Meiji Japan casts its eye on exploiting the riches of the Pacific Northwest...

Whew. As always, I won't be disappointed if you discount or poke logical holes in any of this. The research itself is fun, and I think some of these pathways might even be plausible.

I did not include Taimyr into the Thule sphere, it stops just to the east of it. It seemed too much.
However, west of, more or less, the Kolyma river basin I gather that the Thule move basically along the Arctic tundra (that, by the way, appears to be slightly more hospitable on average and offers naturally a richer edible vegetation that its Canadian counterpart) e just a little bit into the tree line in the Subarctic.
But they aren't pushing much south. Chuckhi, Jukagirs, Koryaks and Chuvans are probably displaced, overrun or assimilated. I suppose that in Southern Kamchatka a mix of Chukchi, Koriaks and Itelmen might be busy adopting pieces of the Thule agricultural package. More to the east, Yakuts, Evens and Evenks will be expelled from their northernmost reaches. But overall they'd be too big to chew for the Thule. Their territory is immense, and they have a technology at least comparable (domesticates, metals, I think some agriculture as well) with the home turf adavantage. The taiga will be mostly a no go zone for the Thule except for its northern and northeastern fringes.
The problem is that I see no love for the Thule by the Taiga peoples. The Thule are relatively late newcomers, and unwelcome violent ones at that. I don't very much in th way of trade networks more that what happens in Canada, though there might be exceptions.
If anything, I suppose disease can go the opposite way, with Bruce and Mona taking their toll on the Siberians, and especialy on their reindeer herds.
The Russians are going to have a very hard time going to the Bering Strait. I think that even with smallpox, the Thule will make for a population higher than OTL Siberia.

 

[DG Valdron]

I did not include Taimyr into the Thule sphere, it stops just to the east of it. It seemed too much.
However, west of, more or less, the Kolyma river basin I gather that the Thule move basically along the Arctic tundra (that, by the way, appears to be slightly more hospitable on average and offers naturally a richer edible vegetation that its Canadian counterpart) e just a little bit into the tree line in the Subarctic.
But they aren't pushing much south. Chuckhi, Jukagirs, Koryaks and Chuvans are probably displaced, overrun or assimilated. I suppose that in Southern Kamchatka a mix of Chukchi, Koriaks and Itelmen might be busy adopting pieces of the Thule agricultural package. More to the east, Yakuts, Evens and Evenks will be expelled from their northernmost reaches. But overall they'd be too big to chew for the Thule. Their territory is immense, and they have a technology at least comparable (domesticates, metals, I think some agriculture as well) with the home turf adavantage. The taiga will be mostly a no go zone for the Thule except for its northern and northeastern fringes.
The problem is that I see no love for the Thule by the Taiga peoples. The Thule are relatively late newcomers, and unwelcome violent ones at that. I don't very much in th way of trade networks more that what happens in Canada, though there might be exceptions.
If anything, I suppose disease can go the opposite way, with Bruce and Mona taking their toll on the Siberians, and especialy on their reindeer herds.
The Russians are going to have a very hard time going to the Bering Strait. I think that even with smallpox, the Thule will make for a population higher than OTL Siberia.

This is essentially correct. Thule progress in Siberia tends to hug the arctic ocean coast and dominate the arctic tundra. It is extremely marginal territory, far too cold for horses and cattle.

The Thule/Inuit in OTL were essentially evenly matched or at a disadvantage with the Siberian inhabitants like the Chuchki, Koryak and Yakut.

Basically, the OTL 'inuit' were invaders with a very good arctic survival package that gave them some advantages in the worst areas. But the siberian invaders lacked the handful of technologies that they'd acquire from the Dorset, like copper and toggle harpoons. Nothing acquired from the Dorset moved west into Alaska and beyond.

In addition, the siberian home ground teams had a very comparable set of assets - dogs, bows and arrows, etc., they weren't the pushovers that the Dorset had been. And they had domesticated or semi-domesticated caribou, and their diets included a lot more plants than the OTL inuit - Claytonia, for instance, was common in siberia, but in North America had been confined to Alaska and the Yukon.

So the OTL inuit didn't get very far.

Here, the situation is different. The Thule have leapfrogged the Chuchki, Koryak and Yakut. Not only do they too herd reindeer, but they also herd musk ox, an animal even more northern/margin tolerant than Reindeer. It's a huge edge. They've fashioned an effective agricultural package and storage system, and their rivals are still merely gatherers. The innovations obtained from the Dorset have moved into Alaska and then into Siberia, so their overall hunting package is better. They've also moved into copper and bronze, and that moves into Siberia. And there are, due to larger populations of Thule overall, larger populations moving into siberia, and they're keeping closer ties with the mother culture.

So this push is much, much harder. Still, the home teams are far from vulnerable, and the further south the Thule push, the more they intrude and the harder it is for them. In near Siberia/Pacific Coast, they've managed to push Chuckchi, Koryaks, Evenks down onto each other, and those have pushed the Itelmen. But its fierce.

Along the coast, they're displacing the arctic Yakut subcultures who are engaged in hunting and fishing and reindeer herding. But only so far. The Yakut as they go south and as opportunities allow, shift to horse and cattle herding. Since the people that they're pushing out are relatives of people who can push back from the south, its messy.

Bottom line, the Thule are holding onto the coast and tundra, the Yakut hold the Taiga and the borderlines are hotly contested.

One factor is that the Siberian Thule are far and away the most warlike of the Thule. Their warlike nature and many enemies have meant that they're not prone to centrifugalism. They maintain their ties and connections all the way back to Alaska. Winter is often wartime, and they can raise disturbingly large (for the arctic) armies to hunt down or smash their enemies.

Being a remote arctic people, they've not had a lot of rival armies to contend with. So they haven't clashed or had any real contact with the more southern cultures, that could put a fear of god in them.

But when they meet the Russians, the surprise is going to be mutual and the shock unpleasant.

 

[Danbensen]

The stuff happening in Asia is intensely interesting, and I'll comment on it when I have something non-stupid to say about it.
But first, here's the Work In Progress so far.
So far I haven't gotten to all the cues DValdron's given me, but I have had a few thoughts of my own:
Thule art and costume will be more elborate and intricate than any OTL Northern Native American or Siberian culture, involving more precious materials.
Motifs will focus less on wild animals (than say the Haida or Inuit) and more on domesticated animals and, even more importantly, plants. Since farming is such an important part of their religion, I predict lots of repeated patterns of plant leaves and geometry.

Otherwise I'm just throwing OTL northern culture stuff together and seeing what sticks. If any of you have any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

 

[Danbensen]

Something else occurs to me. What's the state of the art of Thule ceramics?

 

[B_Munro]

.

Being a remote arctic people, they've not had a lot of rival armies to contend with. So they haven't clashed or had any real contact with the more southern cultures, that could put a fear of god in them.

But when they meet the Russians, the surprise is going to be mutual and the shock unpleasant.

Even OTL, the remoteness of the area and the toughness of the locals meant the Russians had trouble establishing control over the far NE: the Kamchatka peninsula wasn't fully conquered until the 1730s, and the Chukchi not until the second half of the 18th century: it's going to be...interesting... ATL. One wonders if the sort of military buildup that this will require leads to a stronger Russian in eastern Siberia in the 19th century.

Bruce