Map Thread X
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Hm. You know what? I might just take you up on that. Not on a basemap, though, but surely it won't kill you for it to be on something else.
My take on a victorious CSA scenario, based on assertions that the country would turn into a banana republic or even a North Korea. Any input is welcome. 
The CSA manages to eke out a victory before the Emancipation Proclamation; essentially, a TL-191 victory. However, this doesn't grant the CSA magic logistic powers, and it ends up as a backward slaveocracy that's even surpassed by Russia. The Austro-Prussian and Franco-Prussian wars are butterflied away, shaking up European power politics and maintaining the French as the dominant power in Europe.
Confederate politics goes south after an attempt to "liberate" Cuba in the 1880s leads to war with Spain, France and the US. The upper south is retaken by the US and slavery is forcibly abolished, while Texas, Louisiana and Florida gain independence thanks to French aid. This leads to an Army coup, which blames the old regime for the Confederacy's military inferiority and beginning the Confederate "tradition" of shaky military juntas. Whenever a particularly revanchist officer takes the title of "President," the United States Marines swoop in to replace him with someone more manageable.
Interestingly, at the turn of the century, the CS and US begin to work together as part of a greater British plan to form a North American buffer against France's ambitions in the New World. A great war sometime in the 1920s over some Austro-Ottoman conflict in the Balkans leads to the collapse of the Austrian, Russian and Ottoman empires while Prussia finally forms Germany. France itself falls to communist revolution, taking down most of Western Europe with her. Meanwhile, in North America, the United States moves in to fill the void left by France, becoming the regional hegemon.
There is no analogue to the Second World War, but many big wars happen across the decades. Particularly bloody conflicts are an ill-advised Russian attempt to retake the Baltics, the destruction of the Japanese Empire at the hands of the British and Americans, a French attempt to spread the revolution to the Netherlands and the rather messy fallout from the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Nuclear weapons are developed in the 1950s, but are never used in war.
In the meanwhile, the Confederacy becomes less and less fond of their northern neighbors. The country slinks further and further away from the American sphere, but while there is some flirting with the British and Germans, the Confederates ultimately adopt isolationism. Paranoid military dictators build some of the most elaborate defensive networks seen on the planet. The Confederacy slowly evolves into an "army with a country," foregoing economic development for more military buildup. In reaction, the Americans begin troop buildups of their own, but aside from a few nutcases nobody believes that the Confederacy could ever take on the Americans without being totally demolished. Although slavery is a thing of the past and the "separation" laws were abolished in the 1990s due to extreme outside pressure, Confederate society is far from racially equal, making it one of the more infamous regimes on the planet. However, the Confederate leadership still maintains strong economic ties with the United States, and while a Confederate president would never admit it the country is effectively an appendage of American economic interests.
The CSA manages to eke out a victory before the Emancipation Proclamation; essentially, a TL-191 victory. However, this doesn't grant the CSA magic logistic powers, and it ends up as a backward slaveocracy that's even surpassed by Russia. The Austro-Prussian and Franco-Prussian wars are butterflied away, shaking up European power politics and maintaining the French as the dominant power in Europe.
Confederate politics goes south after an attempt to "liberate" Cuba in the 1880s leads to war with Spain, France and the US. The upper south is retaken by the US and slavery is forcibly abolished, while Texas, Louisiana and Florida gain independence thanks to French aid. This leads to an Army coup, which blames the old regime for the Confederacy's military inferiority and beginning the Confederate "tradition" of shaky military juntas. Whenever a particularly revanchist officer takes the title of "President," the United States Marines swoop in to replace him with someone more manageable.
Interestingly, at the turn of the century, the CS and US begin to work together as part of a greater British plan to form a North American buffer against France's ambitions in the New World. A great war sometime in the 1920s over some Austro-Ottoman conflict in the Balkans leads to the collapse of the Austrian, Russian and Ottoman empires while Prussia finally forms Germany. France itself falls to communist revolution, taking down most of Western Europe with her. Meanwhile, in North America, the United States moves in to fill the void left by France, becoming the regional hegemon.
There is no analogue to the Second World War, but many big wars happen across the decades. Particularly bloody conflicts are an ill-advised Russian attempt to retake the Baltics, the destruction of the Japanese Empire at the hands of the British and Americans, a French attempt to spread the revolution to the Netherlands and the rather messy fallout from the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Nuclear weapons are developed in the 1950s, but are never used in war.
In the meanwhile, the Confederacy becomes less and less fond of their northern neighbors. The country slinks further and further away from the American sphere, but while there is some flirting with the British and Germans, the Confederates ultimately adopt isolationism. Paranoid military dictators build some of the most elaborate defensive networks seen on the planet. The Confederacy slowly evolves into an "army with a country," foregoing economic development for more military buildup. In reaction, the Americans begin troop buildups of their own, but aside from a few nutcases nobody believes that the Confederacy could ever take on the Americans without being totally demolished. Although slavery is a thing of the past and the "separation" laws were abolished in the 1990s due to extreme outside pressure, Confederate society is far from racially equal, making it one of the more infamous regimes on the planet. However, the Confederate leadership still maintains strong economic ties with the United States, and while a Confederate president would never admit it the country is effectively an appendage of American economic interests.
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Much appreciated. Although, before I go to sleep I need to get off my chest the admission that I am cramping the style of tnowacki's MotF 50 map a bit and in fact shamelessly borrowed most of that map's color palette.
I like it. And hey, given the CSA is following an ersatz-Songun policy, a GDP per capita of $5,866 isn't terrible. It barely beats OTL Jamaica, but still, not bad for a country that is purposefully being mind-numbingly stupid.
I'm curious how Florida, Louisiana, and Texas are doing in this scenario.
Interesting. A couple quibbles:
"Texas, Louisiana and Florida gain independence thanks to French aid"
I can see Texas, with its oil, its beef, its sheer size and its brief history of independence, getting fed up with the Confeds and striking off on its own, but why Louisiana and Florida? They're pretty solid members of the (now former )Slaveocracy, as screwed up and reactionary as any other part, and I can hardly see why they would abandon the protection of being part of the Confederacy for the dubious benefits of independence.
"Meanwhile, in North America, the United States moves in to fill the void left by France, becoming the regional hegemon."
How did France become hegemon in the first place?
Bruce
"Texas, Louisiana and Florida gain independence thanks to French aid"
I can see Texas, with its oil, its beef, its sheer size and its brief history of independence, getting fed up with the Confeds and striking off on its own, but why Louisiana and Florida? They're pretty solid members of the (now former
)Slaveocracy, as screwed up and reactionary as any other part, and I can hardly see why they would abandon the protection of being part of the Confederacy for the dubious benefits of independence."Meanwhile, in North America, the United States moves in to fill the void left by France, becoming the regional hegemon."
How did France become hegemon in the first place?
Bruce
I like it. And hey, given the CSA is following an ersatz-Songun policy, a GDP per capita of $5,866 isn't terrible. It barely beats OTL Jamaica, but still, not bad for a country that is purposefully being mind-numbingly stupid.
They do get American capital, so they're not doing as poorly as North Korea. The relationship is controversial, but proponents of trade with the Confederacy argue that economic dependence on the United States is what keeps it running and that cutting it off would leave a Confederate government with nothing to lose.
While they've had turbulent histories, they're actually doing better than the Confederacy. They're pretty close to the United States in all respects and aren't wasting most of their money on a massive military machine.
Interesting. A couple quibbles:
I can see Texas, with its oil, its beef, its sheer size and its brief history of independence, getting fed up with the Confeds and striking off on its own, but why Louisiana and Florida? They're pretty solid members of the (now former
That should have been French and American, although the three ended up closer to France. The "independence" of Louisiana and Florida is more a product of the peace treaty than any grassroots movement, even though there were slave and yeoman revolts as the Confederate armies were chewed up. Losing Louisiana and Florida would weaken the Confederacy's already-pitiful ability to project its power throughout the Gulf, while at the same time there wasn't enough Unionist sentiment for the Americans to take it peacefully (they're having enough trouble with the areas they took) and the French (and, to a lesser extent, British) didn't want the US getting too powerful.
How did France become hegemon in the first place?
Bruce
Er, that wording is a bit wonky.
What I meant was that the departure of France allowed America to become hegemon. France was never a hegemon, but it still had more influence in the Americas than the US was comfortable with.I also added a few bits to the main post.
Is it wrong that I find something inheritly funny with the Jewish states? Also, would the Colorado river be renamed the Jordan and the Great Salt Lake the Dead Sea?
That's good. Go Texas.
Yeah, cuts off the CSA's ability to completely control the Mississippi River. I assume Louisiana's main money-maker is New Orleans and its port.
Should it not be the United Kingdom of Denmark-Sweden? The Danish crown being the older title, you using the Danish color, and Denmark quite possibly being the larger country. The latter obviously depends on which versions of either country we're counting. Denmark + Scania would be bigger than Sweden - Scania I think, especially in earlier periods. Norway is probably what would decide it though.
Looks like it is mostly the Black Belt left. This may be the sort of map in which you tell of the number of Freedmen, slaves, the disenfranchised whites.... Does the South use Confederate or Union dollars? How did things in Mexico go? Have the Longs set up shop in Louisiana? I also wish to coin Peanut Plutocracy for the likely cash crop of this country.My take on a victorious CSA scenario, based on assertions that the country would turn into a banana republic or even a North Korea. Any input is welcome.
That's good. Go Texas.
Texas is naturally the richest of the three. They benefited greatly from oil revenue during the mid-20th century.
Yes. New Orleans and the surrounding areas are a bit more developed ITTL and are fairly progressive politically, but the same can't be said for the rest of the state.
Slavery was abolished in the 1880s, albeit because victorious foreign powers demanded it. Until recently, all blacks and most whites were disenfranchised; now more people can vote in elections that the military junta of the week will ignore.
On the topic of the CSA's black population, many blacks took the chance to leave the country after the Confederacy's defeat in the war against Spain. Still, perhaps a third of the modern Confederate population is black, and they've been a source of cheap labor for domestic and foreign (mostly American) companies ever since.
CS dollars, although US dollars are pretty popular since it's a much more reliable currency. The Confederacy has gone through several redenominations throughout the 20th century.
The French-backed empire remained until the Mexican Revolution of the 1920s. From then on it's an American-aligned republic.
While the Longs as we know them have been butterflied away, their brand of politics was popular among the newly-independent republics.
Clever, I like it!
Thande
Donor
I like how you've taken cliché concepts and then provided a modicum of thought for how they might have got that way...
The High Fens connecting the two portions of the German community is mostly uninhabited so it could likely go with the Germans. Same with a slice of Luxembourgish speaking land to the west of Luxembourg and the but of Flemish speaking around south of Dutch Limburg in the OTL internal partition.
Probably. Mostly out of laziness I just pasted the OTL German-speaking Community into Luxembourg.
Not quite.
I did some more work with in, allowing for variable sizes.
I'll look into being able to export pieces of ridiculously large resolutions, so even though you might not be able to view them on the planet, you'll still have access.
This map is like Birdemic, or the Room; so damned bad, but brilliant. It was when I saw the united Celtic Fringe and coexisting Ottoman and Byzantine Empires when I just lost it, and coke shot through my nose. Nice work!
This map is like Birdemic, or the Room; so damned bad, but brilliant. It was when I saw the united Celtic Fringe and coexisting Ottoman and Byzantine Empires when I just lost it, and coke shot through my nose. Nice work!
Thanks!
Bruce
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