Survived to Protect - Post Nuclear War Finland in 1984
- Thread starter Jukra
- Start date
14. Little Secrets
12 January 1984
Air Force Technical School, Halli, Central Finland
Sometimes there are offers one simply cannot refuse. While Finland was supporting Operation Judgement, the US operation to destroy any nuclear weapons in area of Soviet Union (or Former Soviet Union as might be more exact) the liaison officers in the Air Force Heaquarters deep inside Kanavuori hill in Jyväskylä were not shown or told everything.
Everything indicated that Operation Judgement was, in addition being revenge on Soviet Union, a show of force by the United States. It was trying to look like superpower as much as it could. Even with a few combat aircraft this was possible. Without doubt the few remains of US strategic assets were working strictly under central military command. The question was, for how long a deeply hurt nation could afford such luxuries? For how long the strategic assets would remain loyal to federal government which might not be able to support them?
Participation in Operation Judgement was rewarded by aptly named access to Escort Services. Obviously Finnish ships operating in oceans could not be safeguarded by Finnish Navy. Even though remaining Soviet submarines would cease to be a threat after some time there was nothing to save them from piracy of the US Navy if they deemed it necessary. In long term the economic survival of the Finnish nation would depend upon independent long range naval transportation.
Some offers were also too seducing to refuse. A week after the War a Soviet officer had approached border post in Kuusamo in Northern Finland with valuable gifts. In exchange of refugee status in Finland for some 500 Soviet military personnel and their family members Finland had gained access to twelve functioning 500 kiloton nuclear bombs and four Su-24 light bombers, plus spares.
This would bring the status of newborn Finnish nuclear arsenal to total of fourteen warheads. Two had been secured from a wreck of F-111 which had hit power lines in Western Finland. Last two were not functional but according to experts could be repaired within some months if required.
Air Force Technical School was to build a covert organization to handle the nuclear weapons and make sure there was to be some way to deliver them if necessary. One simply had to make sure that in case of some rogue state rising in the former Soviet Union or in Central Europe Finland would not have to suffer from nuclear blackmail.
12 January 1984
Air Force Technical School, Halli, Central Finland
Sometimes there are offers one simply cannot refuse. While Finland was supporting Operation Judgement, the US operation to destroy any nuclear weapons in area of Soviet Union (or Former Soviet Union as might be more exact) the liaison officers in the Air Force Heaquarters deep inside Kanavuori hill in Jyväskylä were not shown or told everything.
Everything indicated that Operation Judgement was, in addition being revenge on Soviet Union, a show of force by the United States. It was trying to look like superpower as much as it could. Even with a few combat aircraft this was possible. Without doubt the few remains of US strategic assets were working strictly under central military command. The question was, for how long a deeply hurt nation could afford such luxuries? For how long the strategic assets would remain loyal to federal government which might not be able to support them?
Participation in Operation Judgement was rewarded by aptly named access to Escort Services. Obviously Finnish ships operating in oceans could not be safeguarded by Finnish Navy. Even though remaining Soviet submarines would cease to be a threat after some time there was nothing to save them from piracy of the US Navy if they deemed it necessary. In long term the economic survival of the Finnish nation would depend upon independent long range naval transportation.
Some offers were also too seducing to refuse. A week after the War a Soviet officer had approached border post in Kuusamo in Northern Finland with valuable gifts. In exchange of refugee status in Finland for some 500 Soviet military personnel and their family members Finland had gained access to twelve functioning 500 kiloton nuclear bombs and four Su-24 light bombers, plus spares.
This would bring the status of newborn Finnish nuclear arsenal to total of fourteen warheads. Two had been secured from a wreck of F-111 which had hit power lines in Western Finland. Last two were not functional but according to experts could be repaired within some months if required.
Air Force Technical School was to build a covert organization to handle the nuclear weapons and make sure there was to be some way to deliver them if necessary. One simply had to make sure that in case of some rogue state rising in the former Soviet Union or in Central Europe Finland would not have to suffer from nuclear blackmail.
That's a good update and it is actually setting the scene alongside the previous one for a very very strange world indeed during the next few years.
The dividing line between the First and the Third world will reach Europe itself, which will have untold consequences both good and bad.
We will be looking at a world were you can still fly at 35 000ft on a Finnair DC10 to Rio de Janeiro or on a domestic flight within France. While mere hundreds of kilometres away, Germany will be a hell hole of Somilian proportions and tens and hundreds of million people will have died all over the world.
In a nutshell but correct me if I am wrong the world wide situation seems to be:
Europe:
Finland: Virtually unscathed
Sweden: Badly hit but not destroyed
Norway: Badly hit
Denmark: Badly hit in places, what about the Jutland?
Germany: Nuclear battlefield, some regions in the south and west of the country might be in a better shape.
Netherlands: Badly hit, possible collapse of some dykes with untold consequences (millions of deads).
Belgium: Badly hit, but possible reconstruction from spared centres like Liège, Bruges and St Nikklas?
France: Airbases in the northeast hit, is Paris still standing?
United Kingdom: Much better off than in P&S, Midlands and North badly hit, southern England unscathed, is London still standing?
Italy: Hits in the north, the south is ok.
Spain: Some damage
Portugal: Unscathed?
Eastern Europe: Hungary and Poland likely badly hit, Romania might be better off, surviving Ceauscecu regime who annex Moldavia from the ashes of the USSR?
Americas:
USA: Bady hit but probably less than in P&S, making federal wide coordination and communications possible in some form.
Canada: Have the main population centres been hit?
Latin America: Very few hits, but the region will have other problems to face.
Africa:
Hits in some places, but overall Africa should be unscathed. Having said that, the end of food aid will have horrible consequences on the continent. South Africa has a golden opportunity to reinforce itself with millions of white refugees from Europe who only want safety and a home.
Asia:
China: Yangtze and Hai rivers poisonned with radioactivity, huge destructions on the borders. Famine possible?
India: Possible war with Pakistan to "finish it" with nasty consequences.
Korea: Hits alongside the DMZ?
Japan: Badly damanged, the dependency on food imports will hurt.
Elsewhere some destruction and in any case the new trade flows wil have severe consequences.
Middle East:
Possible war between Israel and its neighbours and concomittant implementation of the Samson option just in case.
Oceania:
Has the region been hit at all?
You mentionned in an earlier update a Kola development region. I guess this means that Finland will push its borders to the white sea and effectively create a Greater Finland of sort?
Populating the areas could be difficult though.
That's actually a quite good comparison I hadn't thought myself. On the short run the conditions in countries in hit are far worse than in any third
world country but the real long term prospects are much better due to better trained population.
With Europe I'll deal better with some time later on with suitable plot devices. One of the things Finnish government, like all surviving
governments will have to deal for long time is that political and economic
geography has changed entirely but they don't know how. I want to capture that feel.
Unlike P&S, which featured a very long run up to the war, the war started from standing start. Thus, while countries have not been hit as hard the various emergency precautions have not been as advanced as in P&S. But as I don't believe in immediate fracturisation of nation states.
North America has been very heavy hit due to fact that it was, from Soviet viewpoint, enemy heartland with a lot of ICBM targets and a lot of time
critical SLBM targets in coasts. USA together with Canada has been hit very heavily and the federal government is trying to pose as best as it cand to the world outside that it has control in it's hand. Operation Judgement, essentially recon of former Soviet Union and nuking whatever
seems potential spot associated with nuclear weapons, is a show of force as much as a genuine military operation.
USA still has, despite the excellent start Soviet Navy had due to breaking it's codes, the largest navy in the world and is crucial in sealanes of the world for quite some time.
In the CONUS the situation will be quite different.
Yes, Africa is basically unscathed but will face the economic problems you mentioned. Situation in South Africa will be handled later on, but the country is still very much alive and in white control.
China has been hit very severely due to fact that it was the "Yellow Peril" for USSR. As for rest of Asia, it will be handled but you're on very good track.
Whatever Israel did or did not was inconsequential in this destruction derby. Each superpower nuked enemies of his vassals and both USSR and US hit Iran.
Not outside some quite insignicant hits on time-critical communications, early warning etc. targets in Australia.
That will be on the long run due to wants of Finnish industry but will be
dealt with much later.
Thanks for comments!
15. Business as usual
"In case of a crisis the most important task of the insurance system is to secure payment of compensations, especially those of social security, without any disturbances. The payment is based on computer registers and datalinks. The registers are EMP protected and there are backup files on data cassettes or reel tapes which are updated regularly. In case of evacuations the use of reserve equipment may be necessary. As a temporary measure special arrangements may have to be used, such as paying the pensions every other month or giving the pensioners a pensioners card which would enable pensioner to withdraw the corrrect amount of money from whichever bank is closest."
"Tietoja maanpuolustuksesta 1988 (Facts on Defense, 1988) Note: This is OTL document which reassures me that the economic preparation of Finland for even a long term crisis, in economic if not in military terms, was quite adequate during 1980's"
13 January 1984, Helsinki
When British Army surrendered at Yorktown in 1781 the band played "When the World turned upside down..." The radio was playing inside Defence Forces SAAB speeding out from Helsinki city center. A boring studio discussion of intellectuals whose views were antiquated or bigoted even before the War. Behind the young driver at the back seat was seating an older man with peculiar, strong jaw.
Pertti Pasanen, Spede, was the Finnish entertainer loved by the public and hated by the critics. This time it was all different. He was called personally by the President of the Republic, given carte blance and temporary rank of a Colonel as being responsible for producing escapist entertainment for a nation which had entered a new, surreal world. Resources? Whatever he wanted. Well, he would not need much. Just his key actors, beautiful women (make sure to call Eino Makunen for meeting new Miss Finland) and a studio orchestra.
While he had not accepted all quirks of the President, after all he was resident of Savo, region known for it's verbally gifted natives instead of being like introverted acting native of Varsinais-Suomi like Koivisto, he knew the man to be sharp like a Marttiini knife. Ministry of Culture was an important position in times like these. Koivisto had dumped the Doctor in Theology, Gustaf Björkstrand, the elite Swedish dumbfuck, for Urho Leppänen of the SMP, the populist party, in a new all-parliament-minus-the-communists -emergency cabinet.
In an informal meeting held in Presidential palace in Helsinki president Koivisto had been certainly the master of meeting while Leppänen had been just quiet little boy in the background. Finnish nation had to be entertained, foreigners had to be impressed. That was the key note of the meeting. Those invited had included popular writers, like Arto Paasilinna, rock bands, such as Hanoi Rocks, and entertainers like him, Spede Pasanen.
Like in all other Western industrial nations the life in 1983 was a life in sheltered consumer society. Despite all pre-stocking the life would be hard. Unbelievably horrible sights would surface from the damaged nations, a phrase often heard. Finnish authorities needed time to invent something and Spede Pasanen agreed.
During time like this the public would just love poking fun at the authorities. The plot of the new "Uuno Turhapuro" movie being planned, "Uuno Turhapuro in the Army" would certainly take new turns.
"In case of a crisis the most important task of the insurance system is to secure payment of compensations, especially those of social security, without any disturbances. The payment is based on computer registers and datalinks. The registers are EMP protected and there are backup files on data cassettes or reel tapes which are updated regularly. In case of evacuations the use of reserve equipment may be necessary. As a temporary measure special arrangements may have to be used, such as paying the pensions every other month or giving the pensioners a pensioners card which would enable pensioner to withdraw the corrrect amount of money from whichever bank is closest."
"Tietoja maanpuolustuksesta 1988 (Facts on Defense, 1988) Note: This is OTL document which reassures me that the economic preparation of Finland for even a long term crisis, in economic if not in military terms, was quite adequate during 1980's"
13 January 1984, Helsinki
When British Army surrendered at Yorktown in 1781 the band played "When the World turned upside down..." The radio was playing inside Defence Forces SAAB speeding out from Helsinki city center. A boring studio discussion of intellectuals whose views were antiquated or bigoted even before the War. Behind the young driver at the back seat was seating an older man with peculiar, strong jaw.
Pertti Pasanen, Spede, was the Finnish entertainer loved by the public and hated by the critics. This time it was all different. He was called personally by the President of the Republic, given carte blance and temporary rank of a Colonel as being responsible for producing escapist entertainment for a nation which had entered a new, surreal world. Resources? Whatever he wanted. Well, he would not need much. Just his key actors, beautiful women (make sure to call Eino Makunen for meeting new Miss Finland) and a studio orchestra.
While he had not accepted all quirks of the President, after all he was resident of Savo, region known for it's verbally gifted natives instead of being like introverted acting native of Varsinais-Suomi like Koivisto, he knew the man to be sharp like a Marttiini knife. Ministry of Culture was an important position in times like these. Koivisto had dumped the Doctor in Theology, Gustaf Björkstrand, the elite Swedish dumbfuck, for Urho Leppänen of the SMP, the populist party, in a new all-parliament-minus-the-communists -emergency cabinet.
In an informal meeting held in Presidential palace in Helsinki president Koivisto had been certainly the master of meeting while Leppänen had been just quiet little boy in the background. Finnish nation had to be entertained, foreigners had to be impressed. That was the key note of the meeting. Those invited had included popular writers, like Arto Paasilinna, rock bands, such as Hanoi Rocks, and entertainers like him, Spede Pasanen.
Like in all other Western industrial nations the life in 1983 was a life in sheltered consumer society. Despite all pre-stocking the life would be hard. Unbelievably horrible sights would surface from the damaged nations, a phrase often heard. Finnish authorities needed time to invent something and Spede Pasanen agreed.
During time like this the public would just love poking fun at the authorities. The plot of the new "Uuno Turhapuro" movie being planned, "Uuno Turhapuro in the Army" would certainly take new turns.
16. Sailing into twilight zone
13 January 1983, Helsinki
Yrjö Kaukiainen, an Assistant Professor of Economic History at University of Helsinki, was surprised to have been called out to serve in a Presidential brain trust. He was a historian, not an economist, and more interested in 18th and 19th Century details of economic history than current politics or environmental science what he thought that the present crisis would rather be looking out in search of answers. However, at briefings he found out that he was not completely out of his wits now.
The Finnish crisis planning had been set out at chart a route in situations in which there would be state of war between nations. This situation had now completely disappeared, even though Finland was allied with the USA now. The Defence Forces would have some completely new missions, such as the leadership of very strong Relief Force sent to Sweden for assistance, building up of Reconnaissance Task Forces to be sent out to Europe and Russia to seek out what had happened, and the Kulosaari project which was just mentioned in whispers. However, unlike in prewar plans, the Defence Forces would not soak the most productive workforce.
The positive factor was that Finnish AAA credit rate or the situation at the international market at all had not to be considered. This was a situation of barter trade and would remain like that for years, if not for decades. The negative factor was that main Finnish export partnets had simply turned to ash just in space of a single winter morning. The last time Finland had been truly isolated from the world market had been during the Crimean War, when the British and French navies were blockading coasts.
Something had to be done and workers had to be kept satisfied. The first method suggested was the wholescale mobilization which would have put some 15% of the whole population into grey uniforms of the Finnish Army. This was rejected, as there was simply no point. What would be the external threat?
Thus something else had to be invented. Something reminiscent of the days of sailing ships. Get people to work. If working, they would not think too much.
13 January 1983, Helsinki
Yrjö Kaukiainen, an Assistant Professor of Economic History at University of Helsinki, was surprised to have been called out to serve in a Presidential brain trust. He was a historian, not an economist, and more interested in 18th and 19th Century details of economic history than current politics or environmental science what he thought that the present crisis would rather be looking out in search of answers. However, at briefings he found out that he was not completely out of his wits now.
The Finnish crisis planning had been set out at chart a route in situations in which there would be state of war between nations. This situation had now completely disappeared, even though Finland was allied with the USA now. The Defence Forces would have some completely new missions, such as the leadership of very strong Relief Force sent to Sweden for assistance, building up of Reconnaissance Task Forces to be sent out to Europe and Russia to seek out what had happened, and the Kulosaari project which was just mentioned in whispers. However, unlike in prewar plans, the Defence Forces would not soak the most productive workforce.
The positive factor was that Finnish AAA credit rate or the situation at the international market at all had not to be considered. This was a situation of barter trade and would remain like that for years, if not for decades. The negative factor was that main Finnish export partnets had simply turned to ash just in space of a single winter morning. The last time Finland had been truly isolated from the world market had been during the Crimean War, when the British and French navies were blockading coasts.
Something had to be done and workers had to be kept satisfied. The first method suggested was the wholescale mobilization which would have put some 15% of the whole population into grey uniforms of the Finnish Army. This was rejected, as there was simply no point. What would be the external threat?
Thus something else had to be invented. Something reminiscent of the days of sailing ships. Get people to work. If working, they would not think too much.
The good thing about Finland is that the country has a lot of natural resources available, chiefly wood and mineral ores. Finland industrial capacity in engineering and similar sectors is also very good for a nation of its size and better than most similarly sized European nations (looking at you Greece 
). I guess that Valmet is now on course to become a Fortune 100 company during the next few decades.
My only concern is agriculture since while I am sure that Finland is self sufficient in a few things, there is bound to be some kind of adjustment period at least during the first year or so.
Since France is in far better shape than in P&S (not that it is actually in such a bad shape in P&S). There won't be an ouright famine in western Europe during the coming months and years, starvation perhaps but not famine. The huge surpluses of French agriculture will find ready mouths in damaged nations and will be an ideal material for barter trade as well.
The flipside of this is that when the Ethiopian and Sahelian famines of 1984 will hit. We will likely see dozens of millions of Africans dying if not even more than that because of the disruptions in trade flows. The eighties were a very dark decade for Africa and the exchange has only made their bad position worse.
Dictators like Mobutu won't be propped up by anyone now, so we could see all kinds of things happening.
If a Greater Finland comes a result of this TL, I think that this is only fair. But if this happens, Finland should then try to aim to have a population of at least 10 or even 15 millions inhabitants to nicely populate this bigger territory. Opening the borders to "kindred" refugees could be a big help in that respect.
). I guess that Valmet is now on course to become a Fortune 100 company during the next few decades.My only concern is agriculture since while I am sure that Finland is self sufficient in a few things, there is bound to be some kind of adjustment period at least during the first year or so.
Since France is in far better shape than in P&S (not that it is actually in such a bad shape in P&S). There won't be an ouright famine in western Europe during the coming months and years, starvation perhaps but not famine. The huge surpluses of French agriculture will find ready mouths in damaged nations and will be an ideal material for barter trade as well.
The flipside of this is that when the Ethiopian and Sahelian famines of 1984 will hit. We will likely see dozens of millions of Africans dying if not even more than that because of the disruptions in trade flows. The eighties were a very dark decade for Africa and the exchange has only made their bad position worse.
Dictators like Mobutu won't be propped up by anyone now, so we could see all kinds of things happening.
If a Greater Finland comes a result of this TL, I think that this is only fair. But if this happens, Finland should then try to aim to have a population of at least 10 or even 15 millions inhabitants to nicely populate this bigger territory. Opening the borders to "kindred" refugees could be a big help in that respect.
This made my morning. Not only making Kaukiainen a character, but the nice reference in the title.
Speaking as a former student, the Finnish cabinet is in for some briefings.... He is a very competent and knowledgeable man, even at that age I believe, but his lecturing style and soft voice are a surefire cure for insomnia.
Raw materials for fertilizers are readily available from Siilinjärvi ja Sokli deposits: http://www.yara.com/about/production_sites/production_process_story/index.aspx - and I this time egoistic self-righteous politicians like Häkämies won't sell national property abroad on the cheapest bidder
Whatever Finnish corporations will have at least a commanding market positions... The new situation has not only it's negative but also positive sides looking from strictly corporation basis.
Yes, the nutrition will be available but more monotonic and with more animal protein but more fish than during peacetime.
I'll try to handle France later on, but through Finnish eyes so you'll have a good position to point out various details if you wish.
Yes, add the fact that fertilizer and pesticide production are mostly gone etc.
In principle there will be three directions where control in some form or another is seen desirable: Estonia due to good farmland and the fact that local population will be extremely favourable for co-operation and the fact that they're Fenno-Ugric, Kola peninsula for ocean connection and mineral resources and Karelia for huge amounts of timber. How and when this will be achieved will be dealt later on.
Raw materials for fertilizers are readily available from Siilinjärvi ja Sokli deposits: http://www.yara.com/about/production_sites/production_process_story/index.aspx - and I this time egoistic self-righteous politicians like Häkämies won't sell national property abroad on the cheapest bidder
Yup, phosphorus and nitrogen were produced naturally. The publications of the era indicate that lack of domestic potash production was considered to be among the most difficult problems in a crisis spanning for years. Thus Fredericton, capital of New Brunswick, Canada, will get some Finnish visitors soon...
17. Leu aus Mitternacht
11 January 1984
Intiö Graveyard, Oulu
A Finnish General was standing in front of a grave laid out for a famous general who had most probably committed a suicide after the end of the war, exactly on same day 37 years ago. The wartime general had been 54 years old, the general alive was 62 and had actually retired, or put on reserve as generals don't retire, but was called upon active duty by the President who knew him personally. After all, he had been a delegate standing for him in 1982 elections.
The General lying in the grave was Hjalmar Siilasvuo, his father, the famous Finnish commander who had won the Battle of Suomussalmi during the Winter War and had performed the only major amphibious operation of Finnish Army, invasion of Tornio against Germans during the Lapland War. The General standing on front of the grave was Ensio Siilasvuo, perhaps the most famous Finnish general of the post-war era who had spent much of his active career in various UN peacekeeping commands.
The next task would be to start inspection of troops and organizing the staff. The nucleus of troops would be the X Corps with 3rd Jäger Brigade as it's core. The peacetime Pohja Brigade had been mobilized as 3rd Jäger Brigade during the hasty Christmas mobilization. After been sent to east the Brigade was now withdrawn to Oulu, it's peacetime barracks as the fully mobilized Border Guard was tasked with securing the eastern border. In so far north there would not be very much refugees coming over from Russia anyway.
Like the last combat task of his father, this task would also involve an amphibious landing of corps size and Germans. This time the ships would go south.
Unlike the deployment of various engineer and building outfits to Sweden under Task Force Hägglund, which was a relief mission conducted under Swedish command, this mission would be under Finnish national command but would be taken in co-operation with other surviving or less damaged nations such as France, Sweden, Switzerland and Austria. How, he was to find out next month when he would fly to Geneve with the President. Geneve had survived and was the seat of the surviving UN and the natural spot to organize a meeting with surviving European national authorities.
The historical parent outfit of Pohja Brigade was the Kungliga Österbottens Regemente whose first major campaign was taking part in the 30 Years War in Germany, in which Sweden-Finland (as was usually said in Finland) was supported by France paying the bills. This time Finland would be the one paying the bills and Siilasvuo was not sure how many Germans would be actually left. Surely they would not fight the Friendly Lion coming from the North?
This mission would surely last for 30 years as well, Siilasvuo thought as he put his white fur cap back to his head and headed for the SAAB staff car together with his aide-de-camp.
11 January 1984
Intiö Graveyard, Oulu
A Finnish General was standing in front of a grave laid out for a famous general who had most probably committed a suicide after the end of the war, exactly on same day 37 years ago. The wartime general had been 54 years old, the general alive was 62 and had actually retired, or put on reserve as generals don't retire, but was called upon active duty by the President who knew him personally. After all, he had been a delegate standing for him in 1982 elections.
The General lying in the grave was Hjalmar Siilasvuo, his father, the famous Finnish commander who had won the Battle of Suomussalmi during the Winter War and had performed the only major amphibious operation of Finnish Army, invasion of Tornio against Germans during the Lapland War. The General standing on front of the grave was Ensio Siilasvuo, perhaps the most famous Finnish general of the post-war era who had spent much of his active career in various UN peacekeeping commands.
The next task would be to start inspection of troops and organizing the staff. The nucleus of troops would be the X Corps with 3rd Jäger Brigade as it's core. The peacetime Pohja Brigade had been mobilized as 3rd Jäger Brigade during the hasty Christmas mobilization. After been sent to east the Brigade was now withdrawn to Oulu, it's peacetime barracks as the fully mobilized Border Guard was tasked with securing the eastern border. In so far north there would not be very much refugees coming over from Russia anyway.
Like the last combat task of his father, this task would also involve an amphibious landing of corps size and Germans. This time the ships would go south.
Unlike the deployment of various engineer and building outfits to Sweden under Task Force Hägglund, which was a relief mission conducted under Swedish command, this mission would be under Finnish national command but would be taken in co-operation with other surviving or less damaged nations such as France, Sweden, Switzerland and Austria. How, he was to find out next month when he would fly to Geneve with the President. Geneve had survived and was the seat of the surviving UN and the natural spot to organize a meeting with surviving European national authorities.
The historical parent outfit of Pohja Brigade was the Kungliga Österbottens Regemente whose first major campaign was taking part in the 30 Years War in Germany, in which Sweden-Finland (as was usually said in Finland) was supported by France paying the bills. This time Finland would be the one paying the bills and Siilasvuo was not sure how many Germans would be actually left. Surely they would not fight the Friendly Lion coming from the North?
This mission would surely last for 30 years as well, Siilasvuo thought as he put his white fur cap back to his head and headed for the SAAB staff car together with his aide-de-camp.
18. Tours
FROM: Finnish Embassy to France, Tours, France
TO: Political Department, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Helsinki
Secret
UPDADE ON COUNTRY REPORT - FRANCE
1. France or French military units in Germany was not hit in the initial Soviet attack. However, this only meant a very brief respite as when the strategic exchange began French military and many industrial targets were hit. Due to pause in Soviet offensive the French President and many members of the Cabinet were in shelter when the strategic exchange occurred. The French Government has, for now on, relocated in Tours.
2. Primary French targets hit where the sites of Force de Frappe, the French nuclear deterrent force, which were hit by both air- and ground burst weapons.
3. French major cities which were hit heavily were:
Paris - numerous large warheads
Bordeaux
Toulon
Brest
Cherbourg
Marseille
Lyon
Strasbourg
Le Havre
Toulouse
We have not been shown complete list of cities destroyed. The scale of human destruction is simply too large to comprehend like in all countries hit.
4. Despite destruction of Paris the President Mitterrand has been very visible in national radio and television on France being damaged but not destroyed.
5. The French Goverment stresses that it still has functioning major military units, nuclear weapons under it's control and is a nation which will recover. As a show of force France has taken part in Operation Judgement, something Britain has not been able to do as we were mentioned in not too subtle manner.
6. In my view France will be the most dominant power in Europe for years, if not centuries, to come. Thus relations with France will be of prime importance and it is important for us to show how we can co-operate in a manner beneficial for both of our nations. France will be a major market to our goods and will be able to export goods not widely available in the Northern Hemisphere for a long time.
7. Thus a significant Finnish participation in French proposed and French lead United Nations Mission in Germany and the Netherlands will be of great importance.
FROM: Finnish Embassy to France, Tours, France
TO: Political Department, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Helsinki
Secret
UPDADE ON COUNTRY REPORT - FRANCE
1. France or French military units in Germany was not hit in the initial Soviet attack. However, this only meant a very brief respite as when the strategic exchange began French military and many industrial targets were hit. Due to pause in Soviet offensive the French President and many members of the Cabinet were in shelter when the strategic exchange occurred. The French Government has, for now on, relocated in Tours.
2. Primary French targets hit where the sites of Force de Frappe, the French nuclear deterrent force, which were hit by both air- and ground burst weapons.
3. French major cities which were hit heavily were:
Paris - numerous large warheads
Bordeaux
Toulon
Brest
Cherbourg
Marseille
Lyon
Strasbourg
Le Havre
Toulouse
We have not been shown complete list of cities destroyed. The scale of human destruction is simply too large to comprehend like in all countries hit.
4. Despite destruction of Paris the President Mitterrand has been very visible in national radio and television on France being damaged but not destroyed.
5. The French Goverment stresses that it still has functioning major military units, nuclear weapons under it's control and is a nation which will recover. As a show of force France has taken part in Operation Judgement, something Britain has not been able to do as we were mentioned in not too subtle manner.
6. In my view France will be the most dominant power in Europe for years, if not centuries, to come. Thus relations with France will be of prime importance and it is important for us to show how we can co-operate in a manner beneficial for both of our nations. France will be a major market to our goods and will be able to export goods not widely available in the Northern Hemisphere for a long time.
7. Thus a significant Finnish participation in French proposed and French lead United Nations Mission in Germany and the Netherlands will be of great importance.
As I said in the P&S threads, there is now way to quantify what the impact of this will be on France. Paris IS France and France IS Paris as some people say. So the loss of Paris will be at least a huge trauma. The huge centralistion of the country back then also won't help, since most corporations are based in Paris, as are all ministries.
Bad as a lot of refineries are lost.
La Rochelle will become the main fleet harbor then but the loss the dockyards and ancillary facilities wil severely hamp the ability of the French navy to perform blue water missions.
The only drydock left will the civilian one in St Nazaire. Nantes/St Nazaire will now de facto become the main harbor for France.
If the Fos sur Mer installations have also been hit, then this is very bad. In a nutshell, up to four refineries might be lost, alongside chemical works, an aluminum smelter and a steelworks ...
If just the city of Marseille has been hit, then it is not too bad.
Communications through the Rhone valley are now severed and at least severly damaged. The loss of industrial facilities will be hard too, this include a refinery.
Not a huge strategic loss
More refineries lost depending on where the hit was.
Aerospace works lost.
Mitterand will be a good leader in this case I think. The man had his flaws, but he was a strong leader on balance. I expect rebuilding to be on particular importance with him, considering that he was quite a builder during his 14 years in the Elysée.
I think that you might be overestimating the scale of destruction in Britain Jukra, since large parts of the south won't be hit at all. Overall I would say that while Britain will be more damaged than France it won't be that much more damaged.
Compared to what I expected, France has taken quite a battering to be fair. A lot of refining capacity may have been lost depending on where exactly the bombs fell.
I am somewhat surprised that the Lille agglomeration seems to still be standing, alongside Dunkerque and Calais as well. If this is indeed the case, there will be a lot of facilities there to drive reconstruction forward. The coal mines will provide a source of energy as well, and I guess that the bombs gave them a huge reprieve considering that they were closed in 1991 OTL.
By the way, do NOT hesitate to PM me for anything France or Britain related or to do with technological stuff and nuclear stuff
.I think there's a number of reasons why Britain would be more damaged than France. First, it was part of the integrated NATO Command and might well be considered to be number one US Ally. It was also a country which could not be attacked by Soviet ground forces in any credible manner, providing a place to build up US forces in a protracted war. Thus it can be burned instead of being fairly lightly hit to provide for loot.
What is written above may sound surreal, a protracted war under thermonuclear conditions, but due to internal dynamics of Soviet planning based on what we know now, at some level the USSR expected to fight through and after a nuclear war.
British population is also much more concentrated than in France which means also serious damage. I think in P&S Britain did not take the battering expected, some 100-200 weapons even in a standing start scenario like this might be well likely. Perhaps anyone writing about their own country tries to reduce the expected targets?
On the other hand refinery products can be purchased from the world market, from South America etc. The amount of consumers has taken quite a hit.
I have assumed a lot of industrial targets have been of such a low priority that they were to be bomber targets. As much of the Soviet bomber force was destroyed they have been spared. The places hit have been mostly due to their immediate warfighting support capabilities, for example Le Havre and Marseille due to its port capabilities, not due to it's industrial capabilities although I don't know about particular geography whether or not that would have made a much of a difference.
By the way, do NOT hesitate to PM me for anything France or Britain related or to do with technological stuff and nuclear stuff
Thanks, as I said my projection on France is left deliberately somewhat vague as I'm trying to concentrate my efforts on Finnish perspective, a perspective of a nation unhurt by a nuclear conflict. I'´ll PM you somewhat later on.
Really loving this so far. Please do continue. I do wonder if the Finns will make all of the "nordic area" their protectorate or just straight out annex them?
Finnish ambitions will be directed towards Estonia, Karelia and Kola. As for annexation, that would bring the unfortunate responsibilities of treating the people living there as citizens... I'm not trying to write about a Finland which will walk through problems like angel.
19. New Horizons
25 January 1984
Off Skagen, Denmark
Commander Juhani Kaskeala looked as signalman blinked the farewell message to Danish Home Guard cutter which had been escorting the Finnish convoy through Danish waters. The Danish escort had been superfluous. Finnish and Swedish minesweepers had taken care that the route was already secure. On the other hand, the ship he was employing as his command vessel, minelayer Pohjanmaa of 1450 tons, was superfluous as escort. It could not defend itself against any serious threat. But it was flying the Finnish Navy Ensign and thus worth more than its weight in gold.
The Finnish convoy Pohjanmaa was escorting comprised of two large Neste tankers heading for Ekofisk offshore production facilities to get crude oil for refineries in Naantali and Porvoo. In addition there were six Finnlines and Bore Ro-Ro ships which would deliver food and medical aid to Norway.
Before the mission he had been briefed not only by Rear Admiral Tikka, Commander in Chief of the Finnish Navy, but also by the President about the significance of his mission. There was less of an dire economic need to go on with this convoy. Stocks would last even for a year. True mission was twofold; to provide help for those in need in Norway and to show off Finland as a well off nation which could provide help for those in need.
The Danish Home Guard and Swedish Navy were not the only international participants to be contacted during the voyage. Soon the convoy would contact HMS Broadsword, a British frigate three times as big as Pohjanmaa, which would escort them for the rest of the journey.
Despite Britain suffering from wide-scale destruction the surviving Royal Navy units were a force to be reckoned with. A deal was made with the British Cabinet under PM Whitelaw that in exchange of the security services provided for Finnish and Swedish North Sea trade some shipments of food and petroleum products would be delivered into Britain.
In reality it was more of a case that Finland made sure that the convoys would not be hijacked by USN or RN while outside Baltic. French signals intelligence service DGSE had was providing intelligence that the RN had just a few operational ships which were mostly still trying to get home and had no bases which could support them on the long term. Well, just two years ago they had been over the other side of the world so it would take some time before lack of maintenance would cripple the RN. Kaskeala wondered if Marine Nationale was even more of an empty shell of itself?
Nevertheless, even still some Soviet subs were evidently a threat. RN proudly proclaimed it had killed a Soviet Victor III class submarine in the Atlantic just a week ago. Kaskeala wondered if the poor submarine crew was just trying to go home. One could not take risks though. One nuclear torpedo would evaporate whatever ship would come across, and one normal torpedo could at least a cripple even a large merchant. One just had to make sure this would not happen.
Soon the convoy would clear out of the Danish waters and would continue on it's way towards Norway. Running convoy operations out to the North Sea was stuff for great powers. For a time being, Finland would be powerful nation. But even though 50% of Britons were killed like Foreign Ministry had suggested there would still be five times as much as Finns. Even if nine out of ten Germans were killed there would still be almost double as much Germans as Finns. In long term there would be certain dangers in delusional dreams of grandeur.
25 January 1984
Off Skagen, Denmark
Commander Juhani Kaskeala looked as signalman blinked the farewell message to Danish Home Guard cutter which had been escorting the Finnish convoy through Danish waters. The Danish escort had been superfluous. Finnish and Swedish minesweepers had taken care that the route was already secure. On the other hand, the ship he was employing as his command vessel, minelayer Pohjanmaa of 1450 tons, was superfluous as escort. It could not defend itself against any serious threat. But it was flying the Finnish Navy Ensign and thus worth more than its weight in gold.
The Finnish convoy Pohjanmaa was escorting comprised of two large Neste tankers heading for Ekofisk offshore production facilities to get crude oil for refineries in Naantali and Porvoo. In addition there were six Finnlines and Bore Ro-Ro ships which would deliver food and medical aid to Norway.
Before the mission he had been briefed not only by Rear Admiral Tikka, Commander in Chief of the Finnish Navy, but also by the President about the significance of his mission. There was less of an dire economic need to go on with this convoy. Stocks would last even for a year. True mission was twofold; to provide help for those in need in Norway and to show off Finland as a well off nation which could provide help for those in need.
The Danish Home Guard and Swedish Navy were not the only international participants to be contacted during the voyage. Soon the convoy would contact HMS Broadsword, a British frigate three times as big as Pohjanmaa, which would escort them for the rest of the journey.
Despite Britain suffering from wide-scale destruction the surviving Royal Navy units were a force to be reckoned with. A deal was made with the British Cabinet under PM Whitelaw that in exchange of the security services provided for Finnish and Swedish North Sea trade some shipments of food and petroleum products would be delivered into Britain.
In reality it was more of a case that Finland made sure that the convoys would not be hijacked by USN or RN while outside Baltic. French signals intelligence service DGSE had was providing intelligence that the RN had just a few operational ships which were mostly still trying to get home and had no bases which could support them on the long term. Well, just two years ago they had been over the other side of the world so it would take some time before lack of maintenance would cripple the RN. Kaskeala wondered if Marine Nationale was even more of an empty shell of itself?
Nevertheless, even still some Soviet subs were evidently a threat. RN proudly proclaimed it had killed a Soviet Victor III class submarine in the Atlantic just a week ago. Kaskeala wondered if the poor submarine crew was just trying to go home. One could not take risks though. One nuclear torpedo would evaporate whatever ship would come across, and one normal torpedo could at least a cripple even a large merchant. One just had to make sure this would not happen.
Soon the convoy would clear out of the Danish waters and would continue on it's way towards Norway. Running convoy operations out to the North Sea was stuff for great powers. For a time being, Finland would be powerful nation. But even though 50% of Britons were killed like Foreign Ministry had suggested there would still be five times as much as Finns. Even if nine out of ten Germans were killed there would still be almost double as much Germans as Finns. In long term there would be certain dangers in delusional dreams of grandeur.
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