Titus_Pullo
Banned
How do you make an Alliance between the 1st Empire and the British a plausibility resulting an a Franco-British Union.
AHC: Napoleonic/British alliance
- Thread starter Titus_Pullo
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Alex Richards
Donor
Well, you might be able to create a 1st Empire-British Alliance if other European states declare war on both for some reason.
However, it's a massive leap to go from there to a political union.
However, it's a massive leap to go from there to a political union.
What you need is:
-period of cooperation between Napoleon and Russia against Austria and Prussia (say Poland and Hungary for Alexander, Austria, Bohemia, Brandenburg for Bonaparte-there you need another change-Alex can't fall in love with prussian queen!)
-crushing Russian victory when Napoleon eventually invade
Then Britain to save Europe from total russian domination must support France, because there aren't any other powers left on continent to counterbalance Russia. Some sort of compromise peace is achieved between Britain and French Empire, both scared by vison of Russian Bear expanding to warm seas. You just have Cold War between West and East 130 years earlier, and with no nukes.
-period of cooperation between Napoleon and Russia against Austria and Prussia (say Poland and Hungary for Alexander, Austria, Bohemia, Brandenburg for Bonaparte-there you need another change-Alex can't fall in love with prussian queen!)
-crushing Russian victory when Napoleon eventually invade
Then Britain to save Europe from total russian domination must support France, because there aren't any other powers left on continent to counterbalance Russia. Some sort of compromise peace is achieved between Britain and French Empire, both scared by vison of Russian Bear expanding to warm seas. You just have Cold War between West and East 130 years earlier, and with no nukes.
Simply make Alexander prussophobe instead prussophile (and military genius too), thats mean Prussia is destroyed in 1807, and let's assume that Nappy desintegrated Austria, now we have only two powers on continent, so to keep balance of power in Europe none of them should prevail.
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Alex Richards
Donor
The closest you can get in the time period is the working off the Chartists in the 1830s, but even then the type of republic you'd get isn't going to treat Napoleonic France as a kindred spirit. Particularly once Napoleon crowned himself Emperor.
I suppose if you have a somewhat more conciliatory Napoleon (perhaps being more receptive to Talleyrand) there could very easily be a shaky alliance. Its not like the members of the Coalition were blood brothers at any point. A more isolated Britain, a less distracted and more aggressive Russia, Foxite control of Parliament, anything could tip the scale depending on what point.
There was a lot of revolutionary fervour in the 1790s, hence Pitt's clampdown on dissent. In 1795, stones were even thrown at the King's carriage!
But yes, Napoleon being Emperor would prevent this. Have him consolidate power but stay as Consul. Not sure if that counts as "Napoleonic France" or not.
When thinking up POD's it is always worth working on the principle that France and Britain would rather fight eachother than anyone else, UNLESS there is an overriding reason for the two to unite (as against Russia in Crimera or Germany in WWI).
Given the feeling of the British about Napolean (and indeed the French Revolution after they killed their Royal Family) I can't see there being any union (person or political) with him still breathing.
Since Henry V in 1422 the closest these old rivals have come to union is the French talking about joining the commonwealth in the 1950's.
Given the feeling of the British about Napolean (and indeed the French Revolution after they killed their Royal Family) I can't see there being any union (person or political) with him still breathing.
Since Henry V in 1422 the closest these old rivals have come to union is the French talking about joining the commonwealth in the 1950's.
Alex Richards
Donor
Or the plan for a Franco-British union after the fall of France in 1940. That was still quite out there though.
British foreign policy since being expelled from their French possessions was based on one thing - prevent any power in Europe from dominating the continent. This was originally Spain/Habsburgs, but since the time of Richilieu the only possible contender was France.
The only way Britain would ally with Napoleonic France is if that is necessary to prevent some other power from dominating Europe, and by supporting France, it could also be assured that France would not in turn dominate Europe.
Suetonius21's suggestion would work provided you enjoy your handwavium to create a super Russia under control of a military genius for decades. If you want a plausible POD, I can't think of one.
The only way Britain would ally with Napoleonic France is if that is necessary to prevent some other power from dominating Europe, and by supporting France, it could also be assured that France would not in turn dominate Europe.
Suetonius21's suggestion would work provided you enjoy your handwavium to create a super Russia under control of a military genius for decades. If you want a plausible POD, I can't think of one.
A militarily dominant Russia is not hard at all. A Russia that is a global competitor the same way France or Spain could be in their heyday, that's much much harder. Russia did almost become the next big thing after France that Britain spent a lot of energy on, but then Germany passed it by to become the bigger threat.
Russia doesn't need a military genius alone (lots of good generals anyway), what it needs is early industrialization and a serious attempt at competing on the seas and in the trade wars. Before that, France remains the more dangerous of the two from British perspective.
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A British revolution, perhaps major mishandling of naval mutinies radicalizes them
The French Revolution was actually welcomed in Britain initially; well, before the deposing of the constitutional monarchy and their execution, and the subsequent radicalization of the Revolution, anyways. I'm fairly certain you can work off that (though to be honest, getting a Franco-British alliance along those terms is impossible for me to imagine with Napoleon in power, if only because of what he represents and the factors that are necessary for him to ascend to power).
The Race lands in Germany, and britain and france join forces to defeat the lizards? In other words asb.
Someone pointed out there was some initial sympathy for the revolution. True. But from the time of the Terror, let alone napoleon, it really would require huge, HUGE pods. I hesitate to say asb, but its up there.
Someone pointed out there was some initial sympathy for the revolution. True. But from the time of the Terror, let alone napoleon, it really would require huge, HUGE pods. I hesitate to say asb, but its up there.