yourworstnightmare
Banned
Väyrynen will be Väyrynen.
But it does take a nuclear war to actually make him president.
But it does take a nuclear war to actually make him president.
The Land of Sad Songs – Stories From Protect and Survive Finland
- Thread starter DrakonFin
- Start date
Väyrynen will be Väyrynen.
But it does take a nuclear war to actually make him president.
Agree, it's well keeping with the dystopic character of the TL.
It seems Finland really doesn't like this Väyrynen person very much. What is his story?
On the recent matter of Cruise Ships - giving a recovery over the decades, surely people will go on some sort of vacations. For most, it will be taking a train and visiting acquaintances....or taking the battered old car and camp in the countryside for a week.
But there will always be people who can afford more. And maybe going via sea just makes sense if a lot of regions on land can still be seemed a bit unsafe.
A cruise ship would be different from what we are used to today, though. They will have to be smaller, there will still not be enough large harbours and the market will be smaller as well.
Depending on the way the use of energy develops ITTL, they might be (partially) sail-powered.
But there will always be people who can afford more. And maybe going via sea just makes sense if a lot of regions on land can still be seemed a bit unsafe.
A cruise ship would be different from what we are used to today, though. They will have to be smaller, there will still not be enough large harbours and the market will be smaller as well.
Depending on the way the use of energy develops ITTL, they might be (partially) sail-powered.
John Farson
Banned
I think for the next 10-20 years the construction of new cruise ships will be pretty low on the list of priorities. Eventually they will be built, but yes, they won't be the kind of cruise ships that we think of (no 4,000-passenger Costa Concordias or anything like that).
Paavo Matti Väyrynen (born 2 September 1946) is a Finnish veteran politician of the Centre Party. Väyrynen was a member of Finnish Parliament from 1970 to 2003 and again from 2007 to 2011 and has held many ministerial portfolios. He was also a Member of the European Parliament from 1995 to 2007. Väyrynen has been the Centre Party candidate for Finnish president three times – finishing second in 1988, third in 1994 and third in 2012.
In Väyrynen's doctoral thesis in 1988, Finlands utrikespolitik – den nationella doktrinen och framtidens mänsklighetspolitik ("Foreign politics of Finland - the national doctrine and the politics of the future of mankind"), he made an assumption that the Soviet Union would prevail — an assumption which has ever since haunted him in the media. I am guessing this was why he may have not been so popular?
He became one of the most influential Finnish politicians in 1980 when he was elected as the Chairman of the Finnish Centre Party. The Väyrynen victory in 1980 party congress was remarkable also because his main opponent was a well known ex-Prime Minister of Finland Johannes Virolainen. The vote was tight, 1737 delegates of the Party Congress voted for Väyrynen and 1611 delegates supported Virolainen. President Kekkonen's support in the background was of decisive importance in Väyrynen's victory. The "Jalasmökki scandal" 1982 also went on to shadow Väyrynen's career. It occurred when a mobile cabin of only a few square meters was found in the address in Keminmaa where Väyrynen officially resided. Väyrynen lived at the same time in Helsinki and used the cabin to get extra compensation from public funds.
To give an idea of his views, in 2008, he labeled the Russia–Georgia War as a "Georgian attack" on "Russian peacekeepers" and ended his article with the statement that Finland should not discuss NATO membership because "it could create the impression that Finland is moving from cooperation to confrontation".
John Farson
Banned
Yep, he was one of the biggest ass-kissers of the Soviets in Finland, and he wasn't even a communist! Judging by his comments not much has changed since then.
To summarize the situation, he's a long term Finnish politician who is viewed as being quite polarizing personality. Although he has always stayed with the Center Party he does have a certain lack of power base even there.
He does not lack popularity, in 1994 presidential elections he had 19,5% of the votes in the first round and in recent elections, just a week ago, he got 17,53% of the votes. At the same time he's probably the person who could get most of the negative votes in any elections, if it was possible to give them in Finnish system.
CanKiwi, John Farson and Jukra have summarized him quite well. A competent and knowledgeable professional politico with some of the qualities that capture what is wrong with the political profession in general. While he has seemingly mellowed out with age, many even in his own party would characterize the early 80s Väyrynen as arrogant, self-absorbed and vainglorious. Given to dirty tricks. A man who reputedly said that God has destined him to lead Finland. Finlandization personified; he was highly given to "playing the Moscow-card" (the Finnish expression), using Soviet influence to further his own political goals.
In other words, a fascinating character.
CanKiwi, John Farson and Jukra have summarized him quite well. A competent and knowledgeable professional politico with some of the qualities that capture what is wrong with the political profession in general. While he has seemingly mellowed out with age, many even in his own party would characterize the early 80s Väyrynen as arrogant, self-absorbed and vainglorious. Given to dirty tricks. A man who reputedly said that God has destined him to lead Finland. Finlandization personified; he was highly given to "playing the Moscow-card" (the Finnish expression), using Soviet influence to further his own political goals.
In other words, a fascinating character.
A man of his time then, and therefore an excellent choice for this timeline, will be interesting to see how this pans out for him, as his chosen task masters in Moscow are no more and have been integral in the, at least partial, destruction of his nation. This has got to change a person........the question is.....in what respect?
XVIXa: Flight Risk, Part II
(See Land of Flatwater, Our Men in Finland)
[This fragment is an excerpt from the unpublished memoirs of Ville Mäkiaho, a former soldier, as of 2008 a resident of Seinäjoki, Central PPO.]
We were sitting down in the police station break room. It was dim, as were all the other parts of the station now that they were down to using the generator. The Major was talking to the senior police officer, who with his mustache looked uncannily like TV's Reinikainen[1]. Albeit one that had slept less and gone to the gym more often. We had mugs of bad tea. A couple of the cops had just come in and poured themselves some too, one of those I instinctively though ”a real cop” and one of the auxiliaries.
The cops were on edge. I guess it was at least partly the caffeine withdrawal.
We'd all get used to it, in time.
The real cop caught the attention of his superior
” - Lieutenant[2], the sports hall's getting crowded. Should we be diverting traffic to the schools next?”
Reinikainen glanced at him, looking annoyed.
” - Järnström, we went through this. Yes. Koivuluoto first, then the Central School. And for God's sake give Rautakallio the heads up before you're sending anyone anywhere!”
The younger cop nodded and sat down in corner, red in the face, nursing his mug. It said ”World's Greatest Dad” on it.
I took a toilet break then, and when I returned the Major was just wrapping up his talk with the senior cop. The other guys in the room did all they could to hide the fact that they were listening very carefully.
” - ...And we'll take off, leaving them with you. You understand what I'm saying?”
The police lieutenant nodded grimly.
” - If they really are the ones that bombed Oulu...”
” - It is likely. Very likely.”
The Major turned to me. I was startled, I hadn't thought he saw me re-entering the room. He tapped his wrist watch.
” - It's time. Go get the Americans' answer.”
Together with Järnström, we went down to the cells. He opened the small hatch.
” - Captain Rittinen?”, I said to the semidarkness, ”the Major wants your answer.”
I heard noise as two Americans stood up and came to the hatch.
” - Sergeant... it is not my call”, the American said, moving a bit to the side. An older man came closer.
” - Son, I am the ranking officer” he said in a low voice, ”go tell your boss that we decline his offer.”
I looked at the cop beside me. He had understood, too. There was steel in his eyes.
” - You're sure about that?”, I asked through the hatch.
” - Damn sure.”
Järnström closed the hatch and we returned upstairs.
The room was silent when we returned. All eyes on me as I walked in. The Major just looked at me, and I shook my head. He frowned.
” - Stubborn, aren't they? Arrogant, or then they really have something to hide... Well. That's it then. They could have made this easier for all of us, and they decided not to.”
He nodded to the police lieutenant, who in turn sent one of his auxiliaries out with a wave. He and the Major shook hands.
” - We'll leave now, and God willing we'll be back in Seinäjoki by night. I wish you luck... and strength,” my boss said to Reinikainen, who nodded, looking a bit shaken.
The Major strode out of the door, and after a few seconds I understood to follow him towards the exit. Behind me, all the cops in the room had stood up.
Coming down the steps, I noticed two vans had arrived while we were inside. There was a squad of infantry disembarking from one of them. They were led by a very young Second Lieutenant, who snapped a crisp salute to the Major as we walked by. His keenness made me smile a bit, but the Major's face was like carved in stone as he returned the salute.
We reached the car and as I was about to open the door, he pulled a cigarette out of his pocket, lit it up and gestured towards the door.
” - Here they come now.”
I saw the front door open and the cops marched out the Americans. One of them slipped on the stairs as an auxiliary cop pushed him. He was picked up by his comrades.
The Second Lieutenant had lined up his squad, and as the cops shoved the Americans up to the nearby wall, he ordered them to attention. The cops withdrew back to the stairs.
It was very quiet.
The Major flipped the cigarette butt to the ground and opened the car door.
” - OK, we've seen enough. Let's go.”
I started the car, it took some trying.
Turning to the street, I glanced into the rear view mirror...
And saw the Americans being loaded into one of the vans. The soldiers filed back in to the other. The vans followed us out of the yard.
We drove in silence for a while.
” - Mäkiaho”, the Major said when we passed a parking lot full of cars. They were full of bags and all kinds of stuff, mattresses tied on the roof. Gloomy people in winter clothes around them, carrying some of the few earthly possessions they had left.
” - Never mind what I said to that American back there. Understand that it was all for show.”
I nodded.
” - We are in trouble, and in a while we all might be sick and starving. But we don't torture prisoners for information. And we don't kill them in cold blood. You remember this, Sergeant.”
” - Yes, sir.”
He looked out of the window to the parking lot, to a young woman with a bloody bandage around her head, carrying a crying child of maybe two years of age.
” - Even if we really wanted to.”
Notes:
[1] A laid-back policeman in the eponymous Finnish situation comedy, aired 1982-1983.
[2] As in ”police lieutenant”. Komisario or poliskommissarie.
(filler)
(See Land of Flatwater, Our Men in Finland)
[This fragment is an excerpt from the unpublished memoirs of Ville Mäkiaho, a former soldier, as of 2008 a resident of Seinäjoki, Central PPO.]
We were sitting down in the police station break room. It was dim, as were all the other parts of the station now that they were down to using the generator. The Major was talking to the senior police officer, who with his mustache looked uncannily like TV's Reinikainen[1]. Albeit one that had slept less and gone to the gym more often. We had mugs of bad tea. A couple of the cops had just come in and poured themselves some too, one of those I instinctively though ”a real cop” and one of the auxiliaries.
The cops were on edge. I guess it was at least partly the caffeine withdrawal.
We'd all get used to it, in time.
The real cop caught the attention of his superior
” - Lieutenant[2], the sports hall's getting crowded. Should we be diverting traffic to the schools next?”
Reinikainen glanced at him, looking annoyed.
” - Järnström, we went through this. Yes. Koivuluoto first, then the Central School. And for God's sake give Rautakallio the heads up before you're sending anyone anywhere!”
The younger cop nodded and sat down in corner, red in the face, nursing his mug. It said ”World's Greatest Dad” on it.
I took a toilet break then, and when I returned the Major was just wrapping up his talk with the senior cop. The other guys in the room did all they could to hide the fact that they were listening very carefully.
” - ...And we'll take off, leaving them with you. You understand what I'm saying?”
The police lieutenant nodded grimly.
” - If they really are the ones that bombed Oulu...”
” - It is likely. Very likely.”
The Major turned to me. I was startled, I hadn't thought he saw me re-entering the room. He tapped his wrist watch.
” - It's time. Go get the Americans' answer.”
Together with Järnström, we went down to the cells. He opened the small hatch.
” - Captain Rittinen?”, I said to the semidarkness, ”the Major wants your answer.”
I heard noise as two Americans stood up and came to the hatch.
” - Sergeant... it is not my call”, the American said, moving a bit to the side. An older man came closer.
” - Son, I am the ranking officer” he said in a low voice, ”go tell your boss that we decline his offer.”
I looked at the cop beside me. He had understood, too. There was steel in his eyes.
” - You're sure about that?”, I asked through the hatch.
” - Damn sure.”
Järnström closed the hatch and we returned upstairs.
The room was silent when we returned. All eyes on me as I walked in. The Major just looked at me, and I shook my head. He frowned.
” - Stubborn, aren't they? Arrogant, or then they really have something to hide... Well. That's it then. They could have made this easier for all of us, and they decided not to.”
He nodded to the police lieutenant, who in turn sent one of his auxiliaries out with a wave. He and the Major shook hands.
” - We'll leave now, and God willing we'll be back in Seinäjoki by night. I wish you luck... and strength,” my boss said to Reinikainen, who nodded, looking a bit shaken.
The Major strode out of the door, and after a few seconds I understood to follow him towards the exit. Behind me, all the cops in the room had stood up.
Coming down the steps, I noticed two vans had arrived while we were inside. There was a squad of infantry disembarking from one of them. They were led by a very young Second Lieutenant, who snapped a crisp salute to the Major as we walked by. His keenness made me smile a bit, but the Major's face was like carved in stone as he returned the salute.
We reached the car and as I was about to open the door, he pulled a cigarette out of his pocket, lit it up and gestured towards the door.
” - Here they come now.”
I saw the front door open and the cops marched out the Americans. One of them slipped on the stairs as an auxiliary cop pushed him. He was picked up by his comrades.
The Second Lieutenant had lined up his squad, and as the cops shoved the Americans up to the nearby wall, he ordered them to attention. The cops withdrew back to the stairs.
It was very quiet.
The Major flipped the cigarette butt to the ground and opened the car door.
” - OK, we've seen enough. Let's go.”
I started the car, it took some trying.
Turning to the street, I glanced into the rear view mirror...
And saw the Americans being loaded into one of the vans. The soldiers filed back in to the other. The vans followed us out of the yard.
We drove in silence for a while.
” - Mäkiaho”, the Major said when we passed a parking lot full of cars. They were full of bags and all kinds of stuff, mattresses tied on the roof. Gloomy people in winter clothes around them, carrying some of the few earthly possessions they had left.
” - Never mind what I said to that American back there. Understand that it was all for show.”
I nodded.
” - We are in trouble, and in a while we all might be sick and starving. But we don't torture prisoners for information. And we don't kill them in cold blood. You remember this, Sergeant.”
” - Yes, sir.”
He looked out of the window to the parking lot, to a young woman with a bloody bandage around her head, carrying a crying child of maybe two years of age.
” - Even if we really wanted to.”
Notes:
[1] A laid-back policeman in the eponymous Finnish situation comedy, aired 1982-1983.
[2] As in ”police lieutenant”. Komisario or poliskommissarie.
(filler)
Last edited:
Considering the number of oil refineries still around in the world, the amount of petroleum still available and the fact that the technology has not disappeared, I think this is very unlikely.
By TTL 2010 I think that cruising and international air travel will be back as I have said before. But they will be at the levels of OTL early sixties, though potentially on a fast ascending curve.
Great updates by the way DrakonFin!
Last edited:
Something just struck me. Did the Finns really plan to put the President, PM and important members of the cabinet in the same place? That's just asking for trouble.
Something just struck me. Did the Finns really plan to put the President, PM and important members of the cabinet in the same place? That's just asking for trouble.
Hey, it's already happened in Sardinia
Something just struck me. Did the Finns really plan to put the President, PM and important members of the cabinet in the same place? That's just asking for trouble.
To be honest, I am not sure. The information about the late Cold War government plans seems hard to come by, and I think one reason is that many of the shelters in use then would be in use today, if enlarged and modernised. We also have a lot less written about these plans than in the US or in Britain, for different reasons.
One of my main propositions about the Finnish government here is that they are much more naive about the situation than, for example, the British. The threat of war is not simply believed and when the conventional phase begins, it is not thought that it would lead to a nuclear exchange, at least so soon. The highest national leadership is very much "going through the motions" while the Defence Forces prepare for war in earnest.
Stupid, yes, but very compatible with what has been written of the Finnish political climate at the time. This is why, in this TL, Koivisto and Sorsa's cabinet do things that don't seem especially, well, prudent in retrospect.
I imagined the President and most of the cabinet were be in a meeting when the alarm arrived and were taken, together, to the designated Cabinet shelter in Helsinki. It being first of all a matter of expediency to get them to a shelter, any shelter.
I believe most of the parliament still in Helsinki would have been taken to another one. The SDP parliamentarians are in Seinäjoki, like I wrote in a previous post, and a couple of party groups were in transit at the time of the exchange.
Last edited:
An excellent TL and addition to P&S you got going here DrakonFin. Thank you very much for providing such a great read!
I'm curious about chapter 19. Did you plan the Väyrynen presidency all along and have further story for him or just added it as a tidbit due to the elections? Nice bit regardless though. If the people in the shelter are getting sick due to the not-so-nice reason, it would be cruel irony indeed for him to perish just when he has achieved the ultimate success
I'm curious about chapter 19. Did you plan the Väyrynen presidency all along and have further story for him or just added it as a tidbit due to the elections? Nice bit regardless though. If the people in the shelter are getting sick due to the not-so-nice reason, it would be cruel irony indeed for him to perish just when he has achieved the ultimate success