Lands of Ice and Mice: An Alternate History of the Thule

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Well, it takes anywhere from twenty to a dozen years for one of six iron buttons to make its way from point of origin to an area where there are people actively able to come to terms with and try to understand the nature of the object.

Over the next week or so, Maksanak will show the button to a great number of copper men and listen as they puzzle over it. There'll be a lot of guesses, some close to correct, some wildly wrong.

And it will be a few years before anything meaningful comes out of it. And a few more years for it to spread. Of the groups that Maksanak shows it to, this group gets it wrong. But they get it wrong in a useful way, the effort to reproduce Iron instead leads them to Bronze.

At this point, the notion of Wandering Shamans is well established. As part of the tradition, Shamans often isolate themselves to commune with the spirits, and this often requires travel. They also travel to consult with and learn from other Shamans, or to find and see wonders or remarkable things.

Not all Shaman travel of course. The highest status ones, the ones notable for wisdom and power, stay put and people come to them, including other Shamans.

To take the title of a wanderer or traveller, speaks to certain admissions of status. To be respected, but not excessively. They lack the status of the big Shamans, but they perform a vital role as 'transmitters' of information and knowledge. Sometimes its just gossip. Sometimes its new things, plants or animals, a sort of tool, perhaps a new shape to a mound. They are known as questionners.

And of course, the local ones who are more rooted in the community don't travel as much, except to consult from time to time. But their social role is different.

As to how fluid the Shamanic class is, by this time, they're clearly distinguishing among each other and recognizing emerging specialties of knowledge and role. Some of this is percolating through to the public at large. In terms of their control or ownership of wealth or property, that's an interesting question, and an area where I have to play catch up.
 
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Copper Cultures

In Our Time Line, it is called the Coppermine River. It springs from Lac de Gras, also known as Ekati, roughly forty miles long and ten miles wide, and from there meanders north, fed by streams and waterfalls, until it reaches the coast in the area known as Coronation Bay, roughly five hundred and twenty five miles downstream.

The Coppermine river is an area noted to its mineral wealth. There are diamond mines at lake Ekati. A short distance away from Ekati, gold was discovered near Great Slave Lake. Izok Lake, which drains into the Coppermine has Cassiterite and Silver.

More than anything else, of course, the Coppermine river is known for Copper. Copper is an interesting metal, it’s found in ores, of course. But it also occurs in what’s known as placer deposits, in the form of pure or almost pure nuggets. These are typically washed down from mountains by alluvial surges, and you can find them in certain rivers or lake basins, depending on the geology of the area.

Most metallurgical civilizations start with copper. Sometimes meteoric iron is worked. Gold, which also occurs in nuggets or placer deposits and is even more malleable is worked. But copper seems to be the key.

The thing with copper is that it is quite malleable, particularly when heated. It has a relatively low melting temperature, around, 1084.62 °Celsius, or 1984.32 °Fahrenheit.

Now, to give you some comparisons, the ignition point of wood is about 260 decrees celsius, or about 572 degrees Fahrenheit. The red coals, or glowing embers in your campfire are about 800 degrees fahrenheit. An average campfire will get as hot as 500 degrees celsius, or 932 degrees fahrenheit in only a couple of hours. The light blue outer core of a candle flame is about 1400 degrees fahrenheit. With some work, either adding a lot of fuel over time, or pumping air into it, you can get a large campfire up to 2200 to 2500 degrees. The intensity of heat is seen in the colour of flame. A barely visible red flame is around 900 fahrenheit. A clear bright cherry red is around 1800 fahrenheit. Orange flames run 2000 to 2200 degrees. White flames go up 2400 to 2700 degrees or more.

So, as you can see, its not too difficult to melt copper ore. You do have to get a fire going unusually hot, and that takes a bit of work. But the bigger question is who wants to melt copper ore? Occurring in nuggets, its much easier to collect the nuggets and get the fire, just a regular fire, say 600 to 1000 degrees Fahrenheit, hot enough that the copper becomes extremely malleable, like clay or putty.

Then you just pound the nuggets together and pound it into shape.
In our timeline, the Coppermine river was the center of what we call the ‘Copper Inuit’ culture. A culture and trading network that extended to the southern reaches of the great islands of Bank and Victoria, and south as far as Great Slave Lake.

Like other early cultures, the Copper Inuit found placer deposits along the coppermine river. They noted or discovered that these nuggets could be pounded into useful shapes, and that they were much easier to work if you heated them up.

The copper culture of the Inuit was like and unlike the Great Lakes Copper Culture. It was worked seasonally. The Copper Inuit made arrow, spear and harpoon heads, chisels, knives and blades.

The more famous Great Lakes Copper Culture down in the south initially did the same thing. Using their harvested copper deposits to make utilitarian objects, tools and weapons. But somewhere along the line, those objects fell out of favour, and they switched to making jewelry such as armbands, or ceremonial objects.

There are probably a couple of reasons for that. The Great Lakes Copper culture may have been a victim of its own success. Hooked into continent spanning trade networks, the copper works were simply more valuable as jewelry and personal adornment. There may have been additional factors at work. As the easy supplies were exhausted, the Great Lakes Copper culture had to work harder and harder, to invest more time and energy into harvesting copper. So the preference was to use it for the more culturally and socially valuable artifacts.

And of course, as the value of copper rose through local scarcity and greater demand for trading networks, it just didn’t make sense to use it for utilitarian purposes. And it was risky too. Any new england farmer can show you a bucket of arrowheads that he or his father plowed up over the years. Arrowheads were constantly getting lost. Tools would get lost or broken constantly. A wooden or stone tool.... well, so what.... just make another. A copper tool? Losing or breaking that was like losing a fortune.

The early economics of metallurgy, I think, tend to bias cultures towards jewelry or ceremonial items, the items of scarcity and high social value.

This wasn’t happening with the Copper Inuit. Possibly their environment was so harsh it demanded utilitarian applications. A really good copper knife or chisel was worth it. On the other hand, the Copper Inuit were not hooked into an extremely extensive trading network. It was entirely local, not continent spanning like the Great Lakes Copper culture. So utilitarian applications didn’t have to compete with the artificial values imported by the trading network.

The end result was that even in our time, there was a fairly extensive Copper Culture among the Thule people. We don’t know when or how the Thule began using copper. They may have acquired the skill from the Dorset culture that preceded them. Or they may have found it or developed it on their own, either early or late. But by the time Europeans arrived, they were experienced metalworkers.

All of this was OTL.

In this timeline, it’s a leap to suggest that the sort of copper harvesting and copper working that was recognized in the Copper Inuit subculture of OTL 18th and 19th century was in place or had emerged as early as the 11th or 12th century. Archeologists could probably say one way or the other, if and when they get around to it. But right now, I just don’t know. So I will simply make the assumption that in this ATL, the art of copper working was derived from the Dorset, or developed rapidly during the window of Thule expansion, when the Thule culture was open to innovation and experimentation.

How does this timeline differ? The differences are initially subtle. The Thule come into the region as little as a few decades, as much as a century earlier, but the pre-existing Dorset, their culture stressed by the climactic changes of the medieval warm period, are driven off or driven to extinction anyway.
The population of what would have become Copper Inuit grows larger and much more quickly than OTL, largely because pre-agricultural practices increase the total amount of food, and allow for more time shifting food from times of plenty to times of scarcity. Population density increases. With that comes reductions of family and clan territories, and corresponding resource inequalities.

In OTL, the Copper Inuit had a trading network over their local area, through which copper tools and harvested copper made their way. In this timeline, that trading network becomes much more extensive, reaching from Alaska to Baffin Island.

Increased local population, dramatically increased over the longer term, produces a much heavier demand for copper. But it also produces a much larger work force to harvest copper.

The trading network and spread of copper tools begins gradually. Roughly 1000 or 1100 it is not significantly different than what we know OTL. By 1200, copper artifacts are showing up as scarce and unique objects as far away as Baffin Island. By 1300, a considerable demand has emerged, while copper is still rare and expensive, becoming more so the further away you get from the production center, it is generally known and accessible as a symbol of wealth and status.

There is a shift towards jewelry, adornment and ceremonial and artistic objects, but tools remain common (although at the peripheries of the trading network, common copper artifacts like knives or chisels take on ceremonial trappings). Copper tools are found to be extremely useful in agriculture, and there is much lower chance of loss or wastage. Demand actually exceeds the ability of trading networks to carry it, and many shamans and high status individuals will make pilgrimages to the Coppermine River to obtain their artifacts.

By 1300, the level of demand through the Thule dominion is such that copper harvesting, copper working and copper export becomes a principal economic activity up and down the coppermine river. Subsistence food production continues, but is actually a declining activity. The subculture around the coppermine river is advancing in complexity even compared to its agricultural neighbors.

The discovery that copper melts if the fire is hot enough takes place roughly 1230. Melted copper mixes in with the ashes and embers of the fire, which is very undesirable. It’s also very difficult to work. Generally, melting copper is considered idiocy, a sign of staggering inexperience and ineptitude. It becomes generally known as something to be avoided.

However, the demand for, and the amount of copper harvest is exponentially greater than in OTL, particularly after 1300. Placer deposits, copper nuggets are increasingly difficult to find. Harvesting effort increases progressively, but dramatically. New harvesting areas are sought along the river, its tributaries, and in adjacent areas. New methods of harvesting are used, including digging first trenches and then pits to get at veins.

Gold is also found and used, but is less useful than copper for tools, and is generally reserved for adornment or ceremonial objects. The preference of the Coppermine culture is to trade gold to the particularly gullible rubes who don’t know any better.

Around 1370-1400, Copper smelting is developed. This essentially amounts to figuring out how to build a collection basin beneath a load of ore in the middle of a sufficiently intense fire. Two factors drive copper smelting. One is that the escalating push south is making wood available for export to the Thule barrens, so it is cheaper and easier to build fires and feed them hot enough to melt copper. The other factor is the increasing scarcity of placer deposits in many places along the river, forcing some communities to experiment with the ores.

Still, melted copper generally has a poor reputation, and smelted copper is considered inferior. Minor impurities in the ore, and continuing tinkering with the production process produces a great deal of variability in smelted copper.

Copper smelting remains a fringe activity, not well regarded, and smelted copper is sometimes inferior even to gold. Despite this, some high quality smelted copper is acknowledged locally, although the reasons for it are not entirely understood.

One effect of occasional and local efforts to smelt copper ores is an increasing mastery of working with liquid copper, notably pouring molds and sand casting. The techniques are crude, but experiments continue.

An important cultural driver during the second agricultural era was the expansion of Thule territory into woodland areas. These in many cases were scrub forests and not the best of woodlands, but it amounted to an immense windfall to the Thule cultures. Wood had immeasurable use as a fuel. Wood chips, twigs, shavings, bark, and pine needles could be used for pycrete. These materials, as well as wood ash, was also used as fertilizers, sometimes mixed with urine and animal products. In particular wood found extensive use in Thule society for tools and as a supplementary building material. We see a growing proliferation of harvesting and agricultural equipmentmaking extensive use of wood. As agricultural tools became larger and more complex, copper came into more demand as components for such tools. More than that, a demand was emerging for something more durable than copper.

Around 1421-25, some Thule communities along the coppermine river began to actively mix impurities into molten copper. This had a large element of trial and error. But over time, copper-gold and copper-lead alloys emerged. Cassiterite, a natural form of Tin began to be added, with the first crude bronze's emerging. From about 1425 to 1430, various bronze alloy mixtures were tried, until relatively optimum combinations were settled on.

Coppermine river cultures shifted increasingly to copper smelting, providing greater and greater volumes of copper more and more cheaply to Thule culture. Cassiterite was increasingly added to strengthen copper, and by 1450, Bronze was appearing regularly in the trading networks and found as far afield as Alaska.
 
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Well, it takes anywhere from twenty to a dozen years for one of six iron buttons to make its way from point of origin to an area where there are people actively able to come to terms with and try to understand the nature of the object.

Over the next week or so, Maksanak will show the button to a great number of copper men and listen as they puzzle over it. There'll be a lot of guesses, some close to correct, some wildly wrong.

And it will be a few years before anything meaningful comes out of it. And a few more years for it to spread. Of the groups that Maksanak shows it to, this group gets it wrong. But they get it wrong in a useful way, the effort to reproduce Iron instead leads them to Bronze.

At this point, the notion of Wandering Shamans is well established. As part of the tradition, Shamans often isolate themselves to commune with the spirits, and this often requires travel. They also travel to consult with and learn from other Shamans, or to find and see wonders or remarkable things.

Not all Shaman travel of course. The highest status ones, the ones notable for wisdom and power, stay put and people come to them, including other Shamans.

To take the title of a wanderer or traveller, speaks to certain admissions of status. To be respected, but not excessively. They lack the status of the big Shamans, but they perform a vital role as 'transmitters' of information and knowledge. Sometimes its just gossip. Sometimes its new things, plants or animals, a sort of tool, perhaps a new shape to a mound. They are known as questionners.

And of course, the local ones who are more rooted in the community don't travel as much, except to consult from time to time. But their social role is different.

As to how fluid the Shamanic class is, by this time, they're clearly distinguishing among each other and recognizing emerging specialties of knowledge and role. Some of this is percolating through to the public at large. In terms of their control or ownership of wealth or property, that's an interesting question, and an area where I have to play catch up.

This is very similar to Cree elders who I deal with...an elder is a title, not an age reference and is a respected authority on a specialized topic. So you have elders dealing with legends and lore, elders dealing with medicine, elders dealing hunting....

The other important thing is you don't call yourself an elder until such time as you've proven yourself enough to have the respect to be awarded the title. This is sometimes done formally through ceremonies such as awarding of an eagle feather or informally develops as people recognize thier efforts.

It sounds like you're building a nice mix of this Elder culture with the Druidic culture as a seperate, but still part of the community religous and teaching order is built up (at least as I understand the Druids). This also gives the option of apprenticing for bright children to be shamens and eventually other speciallists?

Either way..well done.
 

PhilippeO

Banned
Well, it takes anywhere from twenty to a dozen years for one of six iron buttons to make its way from point of origin to an area where there are people actively able to come to terms with and try to understand the nature of the object.

“Copper,” he said finally, “But not like any copper I’ve ever found. It’s not right.”

“Let me?” Uloqtak said. The object was put in his hand.

“Not copper,” he said. “The weight isn’t right.”

Again, he tasted it, bit it, rubbed his finger against it. Finally, he handed it on.

“Copper, but not copper,” the next man said.

“Definitely copper,” but yes, it’s strange.”

did some Thule from Greenland know and use Meteorite Iron ? and trade it ? shouldn't some shaman or metalworker recognize it as iron ?
 
did some Thule from Greenland know and use Meteorite Iron ?

Yes. Definitely.

and trade it ?

Also yes. But remember, the trading networks have only recently expanded their range and volume with the Ellesmere diaspora.

Prior to this, the greater the distances, the less material travelled, and most trading networks tended to be relatively local. It's only in the 2nd Agricultural phase that trading networks are good enough.

Finally, taking metal to the Coppermen is a lot like taking coals to newcastle. No one sees much sense of that. At least not until some Shaman gets gifted with a button and wonders why it is so different from the copper he is more familiar with.


shouldn't some shaman or metalworker recognize it as iron ?

There's very little motivation to bring metal to the copper heartland. It's like coals to newcastle. Meteoric Iron made it through Ellesmere and the northern islands, got as far south as Baffin Island, but no further. On the other hand, Worked copper was mostly mainland, got as far north as Baffin Island.

The Baffin Islanders were at the outer limits of both metal-trading. They had a vague idea that there were two different kinds of metal, or at least that metal seemed to have variety of colour and hardness, but that was about it. They didn't actually have direct access to either type of metal, so couldn't make much use of it.

In either core area, the locals would simply have interpreted the foreign metal as some odd variety of what they already knew. The Copper men saw Iron as a strange alteration of copper. The Ellesmere would have seen copper as a peculiar variety of iron
 
Tins for the memory

Just an authorial note

I feel a bit awkward about Thule Bronze, since initially I opposed the notion strongly. I also opposed the acquisition of Norse Iron. My feeling was that actually making a persuasive case for a hypothetical Thule Agricultural complex capable of supporting a reasonable population density and a relatively complex civilization was quite enough. The Thule were a modern era dawn civilization.

Having them develop or acquire metal, that seemed like a bit too much, too soon.

I was compelled to change my views.

Basically, the issue is the existence of a live copper culture along the Coppermine river, and as pesterfield has pointed out, along the Copper river. We can only know for sure that there were mature copper cultures here at the time of European contact - say the 18th century. But they were mature copper cultures. There was a sophisticated assortment of copper tools, and there was limited trade or exchange beyond the borders of the river basins.

As I’ve said, we can’t know how far back this copper culture goes. Conceivably, it might precede the Thule themselves, originating with the Dorset or earlier. Or it might be only a couple of hundred years old.
Intuitively, I would suspect it originates with the Dorset, or if not acquired from them, would likely originate shortly after the Thule moved into the area, where new territories supported a ‘trial and error’ cultural phase. So we can assume a Copper culture dating roughly from 900 to 1000 in this timeline.

That gives us roughly four to five hundred years to get to Bronze.
Could the Thule get there? On digging into the matter, my thinking is that the Thule can’t avoid getting there. The preponderance of circumstances makes Bronze just about inevitable.

So, how does Bronze come about? Well, there are two routes to Bronze. There’s arsenical bronze, formed from mixing arsenical compounds. And there’s tin Bronze.

So let’s start off by talking about tin. Melting point is 450 fahrenheit, 232 celsius. Well below the melting point of copper, and well within the heat ranges of a normal campfire. It’s much easier to smelt than copper. In fact, building a fire in the right place would result in inadvertent smelting, and films of ‘slag tin’ under old campfires.

The most common form of tin, and the ore used by the ancients was Cassiterite. Cassiterite is found in placer deposits. Basically, this is a sort of natural separation process. Metals are heavier than rock. So when rock or gravel or soil gets scoured by erosional processes, glaciers, floods, river valleys, a lot of material gets washed away and moved. The heavier grains tend to fall behind, laying on top of or lightly buried, and because heavier grains or nuggets with similar density tend to be moved in similar ways, they’ll accumulate in drifts.

A post glacial landscape is a really good place to look for placer deposits, because the landscape is basically scoured and plowed up by massive piles of ice. Lighter material is moved or pushed by the weight of thousands of tons of ice on top of it, heavier and denser stuff moves less readily. The extreme cold and pressure of a glacier can crack stone to pieces, level a hill, move hundred ton boulders, or wear away at a mountain surface. And of course glaciers melt, releasing vast amounts of water, sometimes slowly, sometimes quickly, and the water saturates the environment, carrying away materials, and feeding rivers which themselves produce erosion.

All of this is by way of showing how the ice ages produced unusual quantities of mineral wealth in many areas of the north. You don’t need glaciers for placer deposits of course, though they help. Basically, any strong river system which connects to mountains has a reasonable shot.

But I’m getting ahead of the story here. So: Thule - Bronze - requires Tin (Cassiterite). I went ahead and googled, looking for Cassiterite in Nunavut, Yukon, Northwest territories, etc. For any hope of Thule Bronze (tin bronze at least, the arsenical stuff would have been the second google search).

Surprisingly, or not surprisingly, I turned up something: Izok Lake and Itchen Lake. There are recorded deposits of Cassiterite at Izok lake.

There’s also gold, copper and zinc in greater quantities. There was a gold mine at Izok lake. Gold and copper are found in accessible placer deposits, so the implication is that Tin would likely be in the same category. Basically, the same forces that make gold and copper nuggets and grains accessible along river shores and river bottoms would apply to cassiterite.

So far as I can tell, although Cassiterite is listed for Izok, it’s never been commercially mined. But that in itself tells us little. Commercial mining is an extremely expensive proposition, particularly so in the northwest territories where absence of roads and extremely harsh conditions make it difficult. You need a huge deposit to make it commercially worthwhile, and it has to be valuable, ie, the price is right. Tin’s not a high value mineral, comparatively.
So the fact that the Cassiterite deposits at Izok are not commercial in our terms doesn’t rule it out. The situation of Thule actually living in or around the area, and the comparatively smaller requirements of early Bronze age production might be completely different.

The bottom line is that there is Cassiterite at Izok and Itchen lake, and while I’m uncertain of the volume of it, or its accessibility to Thule technology (shovels and picks and musk ox plows), I think that given the little I know of the area and geology, it’s a reasonable proposition, highly probable. Pretty much a given.

Of course, the Cassiterite deposits would have to be reasonably proximate to the copper complex. If its located on the other side of Thule dominion, say on Ellesmere or Greenland or the tip of Alaska, distance would make it very unlikely that copper and cassiterite would get mixed. It might happen, but it might take a lot longer to bring this peanut butter and chocolate combo together.

Izok lake does have copper. But I took the time to look up its location in comparison to the Coppermine river. You know what? Izok lake drains into the Coppermine. Basically, its part of the drainage basin. So the Copper Inuit culture would be sitting right on top of it. Yowza!

All right, now we have deposits of Tin and Copper sitting literally right on top of each other at Izok lake, and its connected to the river which is the center of the Copper Inuit (Copper Thule) subculture. That makes bronze pretty likely.
Of course, having the two in proximity doesn’t guarantee. We need something more. We need a fire hot enough to melt or smelt cassiterite for tin. That’s actually pretty easy, considering the melting point. But you also need a fire hot enough to melt or smelt copper, tougher.

Copper isn’t that hard to melt. When I was a kid, I melted pennies. I think any kid who had a fireplace or went out camping has tried it. All you need is to get the fire hot enough.

Now, that’s a little bit tricky. In the Thule Arctic environment, energy is expensive. You can have wood fires, or fires from burning animal fat or oil. Fat or oil fires ignite at lower temperatures and therefore produce less heat. So that’s out.

Wood fires? No trees, vegetation is sparse compared to the south. There is wood in the form of driftwood or whatever gets washed down from southern rivers seasonally. But obviously, scarcity makes it more expensive.
But you can get copper melting temperatures with a little effort from wood fires.

There’s a few ways to that. One is to keep the fire going steadily, over time, it’ll build up heat. Or you can build a really big bonfire, same principle, heat accumulates. I don’t think that the Thule would go that route. Their environment is energy poor, wood is expensive, they’re not going to build big fires or keep them burning till they generate an intense heat.

The other thing is to force feed your fire. Basically, push air into it. The fire burns hotter and faster, sometimes extremely hot and fast.

Anyone who has ever had to start a fire understands that blowing or pumping air in will get your fire blazing hot. The Thule would certainly understand that principle. They live in an energy-expensive environment. They’ll certainly be masters at knowing how to get bang for their buck.

Would they want a hot rapid fire? The answer is yes. They don’t want to waste time or energy. They want copper nuggets and copper grains to be hot enough to be pounded together into a mass, and then pounded into a useful shape. The hotter copper is, the more malleable it becomes, the easier it is to work. So there’s incentive to push the temperature high and relatively rapidly. Since its basically a neolithic society, they don’t have exact temperature gauges, fire heating is more art than science, so its likely to inadvertently achieve melting or smelting temperatures on occasion.

But knowing to pump air into a fire is one thing. Knowing how to do it is another. Now, there’s a few ways to do this. The most obvious is a bellows. Did the Thule have bellows? No. No need for it.

Could they invent bellows if they needed it? Well, the Thule did have air bladders. Basically, they used sealed air-filled bags of skin for whaling or sealing, ocean hunting and fishing. In fact, there’s a picture of a sadlermiut fishing, riding a walrus-hide filled air bladder as a sort of boat. If they can make air bladders like that, all they need for bellows is a couple of valves for air in and air out. And frankly, you can control the air flow manually. So the inevitable conclusion is that if the Thule decided they needed a bellows, they’ve already got ‘off the shelf’ technology that they can adapt quickly and easily. So could they invent bellows. Inevitably.

Essentially then, we have copper, we have tin, and we have within Thule culture, the existing skills and technology that can be readily adapted for making fires hot enough to melt copper, and motivation for reaching high temperatures to facilitate copperworking.... Well if you have that, then Bronze is inevitable. The only question is when.

Potentially, given the confluence of factors, it could have happened any time shortly after copper-working and occupation of the Izok lake area. So potentially, as early as 1000 CE.

Potentially, yes. Likely, not. Of course, population densities are low (higher than OTL, but we’re still talking hunter-gatherers here) and distribution networks are small, and there’s not necessarily a lot of demand for copper, and not a lot of labour producing it.

Get to the agricultural era, population expands exponentially, and trading and exchange networks expand dramatically. Both of these things produce much higher demand. And as I’ve pointed out, the labor pool producing copper expands as well. So it would not be unrealistic to start the Bronze era around 1200 to 1250, at the dawn of the agricultural period. That wouldn’t be unreasonable at all. Any time after that seems reasonable to me.

Now, I’ve chosen not to jump the gun and place Bronze between 1200 and 1300. Rather, I’ve delayed it until 1400-1450, or basically two hundred years after it becomes feasible and realistic.

You know what I call that? I call that ‘not wanking!’ I call it conservative.
I mean, okay, we’ve started with basically a culture of stone age hunter gatherers and in about 500 years I’ve moved them up to the start of a Bronze age technology. I admit, that’s hyperspeed. But it’s also reasonable, highly reasonable, and cautious under the circumstances.

So why 1400-1450? A few reasons. First, the Thule expansion south brings them into the treeline, which makes firewood much more available, either on the site, or simply floated down the river to where its needed. More wood available to the Thule makes energy cheaper, and that alone might fuel experimentation.

Also, in 1400-1450, the population is pretty substantial, much more so than 1200-1250, so more labour, more demand. More elaborate trade networks.
Thule population is going into flux. The medieval glacial era is causing a lot more people to be on the move, so there’s social instability, it’s a more chaotic time. That produces more experimentation. Existing technologies, existing ways of doing things, get second looks in situations like that. There’s more willingness to experiment, to do trial and error, or to work from theories or analogies. There’s more willingness to take ‘off the shelf’ technology and apply it in new ways. Or to use the idea of existing technology, such as pycrete mixtures, and wonder if the principal could be applied elsewhere.
And by this time, there’s much more elaborate trade routes and more goods travelling through these routes for longer distances. Which means that the Copper country may encounter Iron, either the meteoric Iron from Cape York, or even bog Iron from Norse contact.

The point of the ‘slice of life’ excerpt is that encountering a metal with remarkable properties, the Copper Thule can only consider it a form of copper, and speculate that this is copper which has somehow been modified. So they set on the road of trying to turn copper into iron - which doesn’t work, but gets them bronze.

Anyway, I think I’ve beaten this to death, my point is made. I've got bronze because I don't have the option not to have bronze.
 
Alaska - Westward Ho!

Alaska had been the origin point of Thule Culture. Perhaps because of this, it was one of the slowest regions to adopt agriculture.

Alaskan Thule had originated or adopted the earliest pre-agricultural practices, and continued these practices quite close to their original forms.

The adaptations and adjustments that the Thule had been forced to make expanding into emptier lands had not been necessary. Sweetvetch and Claytonia grew in abundance already. There was little need to adjust practices for vacant fields, or to trade or exchange root cuttings or seed pods.

Many of these practices did make their way back, often in attenuated or distorted forms. Roseroot was introduced and adopted. Nevertheless, the accumulation of pre-agricultural techniques which would tip over into agriculture was weakest in Alaska. The environment of the Thule in Alaska was comparatively richer than elsewhere. So there was relatively less perceived need for organized agriculture.

But it did come. As active agriculture developed elsewhere, the elements of agricultural practice found their way into Alaska on a piecemeal basis.

Different regions experimented with domestication, with mounds and trenches, even in cultivation practices. Alaska transitioned to an irregularly horticultural society during the First Agricultural period, which was sufficient to support an expanding population. The Alaskan Thule even innovated, cultivating additional plants - Brook Saxifrage, Sourdock and Wild Rhubarb. The Alaskan Thule also engaged in microclimate engineering to encourage game fodder.

Where many areas had adopted agriculture as a rapid paradigm shift, the transition in Alaska was much more gradual. It was not until near the end of the First Agricultural period, or the beginning of the Second, that the consolidated Agricultural package came to be widely adopted in Alaska.

Even prior to horticulture and agriculture, Alaska had been notable for its population density. The Thule homeland, Alaska had produced waves of expansion east and west, spreading out across the Bering strait, to establish outposts in the Chuckchi peninsula, and west to overrun the North American arctic as far out as Greenland and Labrador.

In OTL, it appears that the a subset of the Alaskan Thule headed west into Siberia about a thousand years ago, or immediately prior to the expansion east, and diverged into the Yupik peoples, or Siberian Eskimo.

The Bering Straight at its narrowest is roughly fifty miles across, punctuated in the center by two small islands, Big Diomedes and Little Diomedes. In the twentieth century it has been crossed by boat, by dog sled and even by cross country ski. While a fifty or twenty-five mile journey across ice or water is a substantial crossing, it was well within the accomplishments, by dogsled or skin boat of the Eastern Thule as they moved across the islands.

In this timeline, the Siberian migration experienced accumulating divergence. With pre-agricultural practices, the Alaskan Thule population was larger.
Thus, the initial ventures into Siberia, around the same time frame, were of larger groups, more people with a slightly better tool kit - the pre-agricultural practice.

Another key difference was that there were additional migrations following the initial wave. Alaska continued to maintain a larger surplus population than OTL and this continued to bleed both east and west.

However, immigration east was problematic. The Agricultural Thule populations of the east were filling up, the population density was significant. There wasn’t a lot of open space for Alaskans to find in the Eastern. Eastern immigration took the form of mingling and cultural exchange.

Emphasis shifted to Western migration. Whereas in our time line, there may only have been one small wave of migration leading to the Yupik, in this timeline, there was a larger migration, and more importantly, there were subsequent migrations, joining with and expanding from the beach head. With more migrations and more established travel, there was also more communication and contact back and forth. Young men would return to the Alaskan mainland for wives. Widows might return to their clans and tribes seeking support.

With more contact and communication, the Yupik culture was not diverging as quickly. Indeed, the opposite took place. As eastern innovations made their way to Alaska, these innovations jumped to Siberia and found their way to the Thule across the Bering straight.

Toggle head harpoons, acquired from the Dorset, were an early and key innovation. Evolutions of pre-agricultural practices - the exchange of seeds and root cuttings, planting in new areas, marking of harvest locations, were slow to come to Alaska, but once in Alaska, they made the jump to Siberia almost immediately, where they were taken up much more actively and aggressively. Domesticated caribou gave the Siberian Thule equality with their Siberian neighbors. Domesticated ptarmigan and musk ox gave genuine advantages.

Alaska was an effective barrier separating Siberian Thule from their Eastern brethren as the first phase of agriculture developed. The Alaskans were slow to adopt agriculture. Oddly, as the components of the Thule agricultural package filtered piecemeal into Alaska, they were readily taken up by the Siberian Thule, particularly ptarmigan domestication and microclimate engineering.

Eking out a living on the most marginal portions of the Siberian coast, they reassembled them into a package. Siberian Thule Agriculture actually preceded Alaskan agriculture by a slight margin.

The Alaskan Thule also expanded inland, gradually pushing the Dene from large parts of their range. Rather than the dramatic invasions driven by climate, this was far more a gradual displacement of one group of hunter gatherers by another. The Alaskan adoption of Eastern innovations allowed them increasing comparative advantages, even without a radical shift in lifestyle.

This more gradual approach meant that Thule practices were adopted by the Dene-Ina of Alaska, who eventually assembled them into or adopted the Thule Agricultural complex. They were one of the few groups to do so successfully.

Finally, the Alaskan Thule expanded south along the coasts, encountering southern Indian peoples. This southern expansion was limited by the tolerance of the southern Indians, often not very tolerant, and the relative limitations of the Thule agricultural package and pycrete storage, particularly as it moved south. However, in many cases, the coastal Thule established, if not good relations, at least cautious relationships with the people to the south or inland of them.
 
 
that the a subset P: that a subset

What's internal Alaskan trade like?

I've found several mentions of Buck Creek having tons of placer tin, but it's on the Seward peninsula. Seward also has copper, but I haven't found how much yet.
 
that the a subset P: that a subset

What's internal Alaskan trade like?

I've found several mentions of Buck Creek having tons of placer tin, but it's on the Seward peninsula. Seward also has copper, but I haven't found how much yet.

What we'll probably see in the 1500's is two rival metallurgical cultures among the Thule - Bronze/copper in the west, and Iron in the north and east.
 
Shamans

This is not about this TL, specifically, but a general brainfart I'm having about many of the threads I read on this forum. Shamans. My own exposure to them, textually and personally, has been in East Siberia, nowhere else. Aside from the plastic kind you find everywhere you turn, of course ;(

What I see here and in other threads is shamans presented not as they existed historically or ethnographically, but as priests; in the European sense -- an educated elite. One which "naturally" tends to generate technological~social development as a "natural" result of their involvement in medicine (ethnobotany, etc.). This is just... very jarring, for me. In the cultures I know with shamanism -- in fact, including the very cultural sphere from which the name "shaman" was taken -- they were _not_ like that. They were very narrow specialists in ritualized, spiritual forms of healing -- and were rarely if ever involved in providing herbal medication, first aid, technical aspects of livelihood, and were indeed the prime forces of reaction that the Soviets pegged them as. The ones I know by book and even in person (neo-shamans as they might be) are _not_ Benedictines or Franciscans, much less Jesuits.

So when I read "Ice & Mice" and other threads, I find myself always having to bracket aside everything written about "shaman(s/ism)" as well-intentioned but fundamentally misguided pop anthropology. I honestly don't know a whole lot about 'shamanism' in Yupik-Inuit culture. But, based on the nomenclature alone, I kinda cringe and look away whenever they're presented as some kind of intellectual stratum within OTL or ATL narratives.

--Kim
 
Really enjoying this its absolutely fascinating to see you build a culture in such a barren place.

Just a quik question about something that doesn't actually have any impact on the story. Fox dog cross breeds? It might be possible with a few rumoured cases but no confirmation and any resulting offspring would undoubtedly be infertile but could make exotic pets or some spiritual creature depending on its rarity.

Anyways I really can't wait to see how the Thule interact with European civilisation.
 
This is not about this TL, specifically, but a general brainfart I'm having about many of the threads I read on this forum. Shamans. My own exposure to them, textually and personally, has been in East Siberia, nowhere else. Aside from the plastic kind you find everywhere you turn, of course ;(

What I see here and in other threads is shamans presented not as they existed historically or ethnographically, but as priests; in the European sense -- an educated elite. One which "naturally" tends to generate technological~social development as a "natural" result of their involvement in medicine (ethnobotany, etc.). This is just... very jarring, for me. In the cultures I know with shamanism -- in fact, including the very cultural sphere from which the name "shaman" was taken -- they were _not_ like that. They were very narrow specialists in ritualized, spiritual forms of healing -- and were rarely if ever involved in providing herbal medication, first aid, technical aspects of livelihood, and were indeed the prime forces of reaction that the Soviets pegged them as. The ones I know by book and even in person (neo-shamans as they might be) are _not_ Benedictines or Franciscans, much less Jesuits.

So when I read "Ice & Mice" and other threads, I find myself always having to bracket aside everything written about "shaman(s/ism)" as well-intentioned but fundamentally misguided pop anthropology. I honestly don't know a whole lot about 'shamanism' in Yupik-Inuit culture. But, based on the nomenclature alone, I kinda cringe and look away whenever they're presented as some kind of intellectual stratum within OTL or ATL narratives.

--Kim

Um, I think the current *Thule class of Shaman actually emerged as a class of agricultural specialists, instead of developing from the older more tradition class of mystics. I could be wrong though...

Great TL by the way you two.
 
Kuroda, I certainly respect your views, and I suspect that your own experiences both first and second hand with Shamanic personages and Shamanic cultures exceed my own.

My own direct experience is with Cree and Ojibwa (and a few Saulteaux), and their medicine men and traditional elders. I've been to a shaking tent, and have spent time in the company of some of the medicine men, more time with elders, and I've heard a lot of the stories and tales of people who related to or relied on traditional medicine.

But at best, I'd consider these attenuated versions of Shamanic traditions, mediated by Christianity and the influence of modernization.

At University, my anthro professors did their fieldwork in Mexico and Central American villages, including the survival of cultural traditions, including medicine men and healers, in the context of a Christian overlay. My studies went along those lines

So, while I have some knowledge and understanding of the Shamanic tradition, I'll freely acknowledge the limitations.

But having said that, I think that perhaps some of your problem is that the Shamanic tradition of the Thule as it has evolved is not something you can recognize.

I think that goes with the territory.

Basically, in hunter/gatherer, or even horticultural/herder situations, there wasn't the same sort of distinction being made between the natural and supernatural world. Rather, there was a distinction between a human realm which amounted to people and their relationships and tools, and the natural realm filled with spirits, plants, animals, waters, skies, storms, seasons and illnesses. The human realm existed within the context of and dependent and at the mercy of the natural realm.

The Shamanic tradition as I understand it, in part, comes into being to mediate the relationships between humans and the natural world that they depend on. This often took the form of 'medicine', since lacking knowledge of diseases, bacteria, viri, infection, etc., since illness struck mysteriously, the the only real approach was to see it as some sort of imbalance in the relationship with the spirits.

The thing is though, as I've said, is that culture is a moving target. As a culture evolves, the freight and skills associated with cultural occupations shifts. This is inevitable.

So the role of the Shaman, and what constitutes a Shaman, is not a static thing, but an evolution. A Shaman of the Thule circa 900 in their full hunter/gatherer mode OTL, would be a somewhat different role than a Shaman of the Thule circa 1000 during the expansion period, where the role has begun to encompass pre-agricultural practices. Neither of those would recognize the Shamanic traditions, or diversity of Shamans as have evolved and have existed in the sedentary agricultural societies of the Thule circa 1400. It's a radically different culture and its needs and requirements have changed, the roles of Shaman have changed.

Now, I do want to emphasize that even in 1400, the Thule are essentially a mystical society. Theirs is a demon haunted world filled with spirits.

Early on, I emphasized the development or evolution of pre-agricultural practices as being mystical in nature, a matter of negotiating with or placating spirits. In most respects, this is still what is going on. The Thule conceptualize many of their developments and innovations as being rooted in the spirit world. The success or failure of a crop is a matter of the spirits decision, weather, seasons, the success or failure of animal husbandry, animal diseases, all of these have a spiritual component.

Like it or not, given the evolution of Thule culture, the role and nature of Shamans will change. The direction is something that might resemble priests, or perhaps druids.

I've gotten away from that, in favour of describing the dry technical elements of a society in our terms. Plants and microclimates are described in western secular terms of materialist dynamics. That's how we understand it. It's not how the Thule see it. But in the end, the effects are the same, and so I've chosen to describe it in terms that are plausible to my audience.

Perhaps I should do more, but even with my minimalist approach, and using very broad brushes to describe cultural and population shifts, I'm taking up an immense amount of time and effort. At the end of the day, I can't go everywhere and do anything. There are large parts of Thule culture that get treated with only superficially.

So, there you go, for what its worth.
 
Really enjoying this its absolutely fascinating to see you build a culture in such a barren place.

Just a quik question about something that doesn't actually have any impact on the story. Fox dog cross breeds? It might be possible with a few rumoured cases but no confirmation and any resulting offspring would undoubtedly be infertile but could make exotic pets or some spiritual creature depending on its rarity.

Anyways I really can't wait to see how the Thule interact with European civilisation.

I'm not at all sure if dog/fox cross breeds are possible. I do concede that just by nature of circumstance, there are many more opportunities for interspecies romance, so if such hybrids are possible, they might turn up. As to what would be done with them, I couldn't say.
 
Um, I think the current *Thule class of Shaman actually emerged as a class of agricultural specialists, instead of developing from the older more tradition class of mystics. I could be wrong though...

Great TL by the way you two.

Thank you for the compliment. I think that by 1400, I would say that some or many of the Thule class of Shamans are agricultural specialists to some degree, but that the class is sporting a large number of generalists, and specialists in different categories.

As Thule culture has diverged, the Shamanic class has evolved from the traditional class of mystics to the present form. Mysticism remains the underlying foundation of Shamanism, however.
 
Doxes, the dog/fox hybrid, have been reported but never proven. And may be impossible due to a different number of chromosomes(dogs 78 foxes 34).
 
What would anyone do with all those Chromosomes. I've only got a dozen, and they suit me just fine. Hell, I donated a few spares to the Salvation Army.
 
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Three From Alaska

The Alaskan environment contained Claytonia, the key edible plant. It also supported Sweetvetch and a number of the other secondary cultivars, as well as a number of plants unique to it.

The closest North American arctic region to Asia, it was heavily influenced by Asian flora. In addition, geographically, it tended to be wetter than much of the Arctic.

Agriculture was relatively slow to take hold in Alaska, compared to other parts of the Thule range. With a pre-existing biological wealth, there was less incentive for aggressive cultivation. Over time, Alaska slowly adopted the evolving pre-agricultural practices, transitioning to horticulture in the comparatively richer and more productive environment, before fully adopting agriculture, near the end of the first or beginning of the second agricultural phase.

Despite this relatively late start, Alaska contributed a trio of domesticated cultivars to the Thule complex. These plants represented a significant contribution, particularly in the more southerly reaches. They did poorly in northerly regions, however, and tended to be water hungry.



Wild Rhubarb (Polygonum alaskanum) - A perreniel flowering herb, with a stout fleshy rootstalk several inches thick, which branch out into leafy stems ranging. The stems are reddish with thick joints from which two to eight inch long leaves sprout. The flowers are small and greenish. Wild rhubarb is a southerly plant, generally extending just north of the treeline. The plant is something of a pioneer, growing in the open, or on fresh landslides. It can grow in density, forming pure stands of acres extent in nature.

The sliced rootstock can be cooked. Green stems and leaves may be used to prepare a sauerkraut. Young stems, bright red and finger thick, which appear soon after the snow melts can be harvested, and are edible stewed, tasting like rhubarb. It can be eaten raw when young, but as it ages, it requires cooking. The juice of plant is also used to produce s beverage. This plant was generally harvested over a two week period in mid-summer, when it was about eight to ten inches high. Although a perreniel, the edible part of it is early in its life cycle, and so most specimens are harvested, with a few chosen to leave to mature and seed.

Following this, once flowering or gone to seed, it was too dry for consumption and it would be used as caribou fodder. The fully matured wild plants may be three to six feet in height.

Although found as far east as the McKenzie valley, first domestication was in Alaska, and the plant moved steadily east, until it reached Hudson Bay, and the lower reaches of some of the Southern Islands of the Archipelago by, approximately 1450. It reached northern Quebec/Labrador around 1525, and there was some cultivation in Southern Greenland by 1600, although it never gained much popularity in these regions. It never grew through most of the Archipelago.

Less cold tolerant than other species, its harvesting cycle encouraged rapid artificial selection, and it responded well to microclimate agriculture, with significant enhancement of the rootstock, shorter reproductive cycle and reduced height. Wild and domesticated forms are readily distinct.

Because almost every portion of the plant can be eaten, and because it can be harvested very early in its life cycle, and can grow in profusion, arctic rhubarb is almost a staple in some areas. However, excessive consumption can cause photosensitivity and may bind up minerals needed by the body.

 
Sourdock (Rumex Arcticus) A perrenial flowering plant with a stout fleshy rootstalk, a tall simple stem, and stout fleshy leaves three to twelve inches long. The flowering stem ranges one to three feet high, terminating in a complex of flowers, although this varies, specimens in the high arctic may be as short as six inches. A water loving plant, it grows in wet places, marshes, snow beds, moist places on tundra. It was tolerant of disturbed soils, and grew well in the open or in the shade. Although much more cold tolerant than wild rhubarb, its requirement for moisture limited its spread.

Found principally in Alaska, it was always an important part of the diet of native Alaskan Thule, even in the hunter-gatherer phase. It was an early target of Alaskan horticultural efforts, and spread readily, expanding through most of the Thule range by about 1450.

The young leaves make an edible salad green or cooked vegetable. They have a sour taste. If simmered in water, they can make a lemonade. The stems are edible, and can be cooked or eaten raw. Although high in nutritional value, it contains oxalic acid that can cause muscle spasms, cramps, stomach pain and buring in the mouth and throat. The concentration increase with age, meaning that harvest of young plants is preferred. However, the toxin breaks down when cooked or frozen.

The plant has been used for medicinal purposes. The root is considered a laxative, tonic and blood purifier, used for stomach or bladder troubles and as a hangover cure. It can be used to induce vomiting. Leaves can be used as a slave to ease the irrtation of insect stings.
 

Round-Leaved Saxifrage (Saxifraga punctata) Also referred to as dotted saxifrage and brook saxifrage. An Alaskan plant, it occupies or requires similar sheltered habitat as Roseroot, growing in crevices or out of the wind and when that plant was introduced to Alaska, the two often grew naturally in conjunction. The Saxifrage became a good marker for where to plant

Roseroot, alternately, a failure of Saxifrage to thrive was seen as a bad sign.
Like Sourdock, it prefers relatively wet soil, but is otherwise tolerant of poor soil and growing conditions. Also like Sourdock, it is fairly tolerant of arctic conditions, more so than wild rhubarb.

This is a low stempless perreniel with a creeping rootstock. The flowering stems may be six to ten inches high, terminating in bursts of white or whitish flowers.

It is a salad leaf and edible stalk. The leaves can be eaten raw, often with seal blubber. Or used in a sauerkraut. Unlike Sourdock and wild rhubarb, it doesn’t have oxacalic acid and can be eaten reddily. They were usually collected in spring before flowering.

It’s association with Roseroot and edible qualities were the key to its domestication and cultivation, and lead to it spreading back, along Roseroot’s pathways, until it ranged throughout the Thule territory. It’s wind driven seeds were often used as ‘pioneers’ for the cultivation of the more valuable Roseroot.

The saxifrages are named ‘rock breakers’ because it was believed that their roots would break or erode the rocks on which they grew. The Thule believed that they contributed the breakage of rock and gravel and formation of soil. They also believed that the plants provided cover for Roseroot, and that Roseroot grew better in their presence.

A related species, Purple Saxifrage, was cultivated or actively encouraged as Caribou or Musk ox fodder.
 
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