The Land of Sad Songs – Stories From Protect and Survive Finland

Yet another excellent update, and here's a map with nuked locations shown with underline in red:

finland sad songs.JPG
 
Yet another excellent update, and here's a map with nuked locations shown with underline in red:

Good god...that's a lot of damage. The more these P&S spinoffs lay out, the happier I am that nothing like this has actually happened.
 


XI. The Eleventh Hour




Fragment 53.
Logged 02.03.2008
HJK


[Yet another fragment from the FNA archives with very little context information.[1] The paper it is written on as well as the handwriting suggest it includes information gained through an interrogation. -JSH]



The regiment has stopped in the middle of a frozen forest. The war has gone nuclear. Communications are cut, I hear from a guy in Signals. It's clear the Colonel has no idea what to do. The junior officers are running around like so many headless chickens.

And then we agreed: we have much better chances to survive if we leave now and find somewhere safe to take shelter from the fallout. Just a few discreet preparations to do while the Sergeant isn't looking..

And we run. Hauling the stuff we grabbed from the field kitchen. Ducking among trees – was there a group of houses this way, right, he asks me. Uhhuh. It is strange, to see the bright sunshine among the trees and to know that the sky is deadly – will be deadly soon. Like living a strangely luminous nightmare.

There's noise ahead. We hide behind a snowy copse to see a squad of enemy soldiers in winter gear hastily boarding a truck. Can't make out what they're saying, but its obvious - ”hurry, damn it, let's get moving” - they know a shelter somewhere and they're making a run for it. Throwing their weapons and stuff in the back, fiddling with their gasmasks. It's hard to see with a mask on, without practice. I'm sure they have no idea we're here. A man who carries himself like an officer is the last to board the truck and it takes off, tires slipping, leaving a bit of scattered gear and trash. As they are far enough, we go and check out the stuff. Not much we can use, but we grab some of it anyway.

And we're moving again. Sticking to the road now, the snow in the forest is a bitch. I'm sure I never saw as much snow before. And there are the houses, now, a couple of farms by the road. We jog to the closer one, perfect targets on the driveway. Nobody to be seen. The yard's full of snow – nobody's been here for days. The door's locked. I bust the glass with my rifle, finally getting some use out of it on this trek. The house is empty. As I look around, he checks the kitchen. We stuff some canned foods, dried bread into a bag, head for the stairs taking us down – a cellar I saw. At the last minute I think of also grabbing mattresses and blankets off the empty beds.

We're in luck. I can't believe it. I could just kiss him.

Carrying all this, we stumble on the floor of the cellar – it is surprisingly big. I drop my things on the floor, start looking for the best place for our shelter. He opens a side door, starts to exclaim

Blam.

He stumbles back, holding his stomach. Falls on his back in slow motion. He's cut in half. It takes ages before I get a hold of my rifle, remove the safety. Shoot at the door, full auto. Splinters of wood flying. Only now I remember to throw myself to the floor.

And then silence. I crawl towards the door, open just a bit, push the muzzle inside. There's movement. I shoot again. Then I see it. In the corner, on a mattress, a man with a shotgun. An old man. A dead man. With a small dog. It was the dog that moved, it's unharmed.

We look at each other, me and the dog. I check my comrade – dead, with a surprised look on his innocent face. My ears are throbbing. I drop to the floor, hard. The dog edges out of the room, comes to me, sits and cocks his head – looking at me as if trying to think what just happened.

I just killed your master, little dog.”

The dog says nothing.

So now I guess I have to take care of you myself.”

It is as if the dog nods. It is surreal.

I am Fedya. I think I'll call you Sharik.”





Notes

[1] It appears the FNA archival policies are very lax - if they indeed have any. However, some within the Project have surmised that the Authority knows more (and is more organised) than they're letting on. On the available evidence, it is hard to say one way or the other.
(filler)
 
Last edited:
Just a small update to keep the TL going.

I am taking a small break to do some actual work and to read up on some sources for the TL, be back in a few days.
 
Interesting Russian POV. Armed and scared civilians might account for some deaths, even accidental ones.

Keep it up, DrakonFin!:)
 
I must say that I find the number of targets in Finland too high in my opinion since there is simply is no strategic case for wasting a warhead on Mariehamn for example.

Still the country is decapitated now it seems and recovery might be hard if the right men and the right decision makers are not in the right places.
 
I must say that I find the number of targets in Finland too high in my opinion since there is simply is no strategic case for wasting a warhead on Mariehamn for example.

I based the targets on a 60s American target list for Finland, a bit updated for the 80s. It seems to be the best available source even recent Finnish literature uses. The assumption for both sides, ironically, is that they see Finland as a lost cause - the American because the Soviets took Lapland so easily and were seemingly poised to grab Helsinki any time, the Soviets because Finland was still resisting and the South-West could be, theoretically, used as a launchpad for a Western attack against the Leningrad area.

Mariehamn was just an example of a target the Soviets might think of, Åland has always had a high strategic value for Russia/USSR as it is a great place for naval control of the northern Baltic. And relief convoys from Sweden would come through Åland and the Archipelago Sea. There is also the irony of nuking Åland, one of the longest-standing demilitarized areas in the world that I just couldn't pass.:D
 
I based the targets on a 60s American target list for Finland, a bit updated for the 80s. It seems to be the best available source even recent Finnish literature uses. The assumption for both sides, ironically, is that they see Finland as a lost cause - the American because the Soviets took Lapland so easily and were seemingly poised to grab Helsinki any time, the Soviets because Finland was still resisting and the South-West could be, theoretically, used as a launchpad for a Western attack against the Leningrad area.

Mariehamn was just an example of a target the Soviets might think of, Åland has always had a high strategic value for Russia/USSR as it is a great place for naval control of the northern Baltic. And relief convoys from Sweden would come through Åland and the Archipelago Sea. There is also the irony of nuking Åland, one of the longest-standing demilitarized areas in the world that I just couldn't pass.:D

The so called target list is just that, a list of targets preanalysed in case one might want to bomb the mentioned targets. Just like a (say) infantry battalion has a list of preplanned artillery targets to be struck in need.

Since the intention is to whack Finland, I think the list of targets is appropriate. To spice up things a little, a lot of the targets could realistically have ground bursts. Here's my WAG according to story what might get used. Problem is, that population centers seem to survive.

- Jyväskylä: Target is the AF Headquarters carved deep inside rock formation (Kanavuori). Megaton sized ground burst. Delivery: B43 1 megaton, laydown, F-111

-Rovaniemi: Railroad marshalling yard and bridges. Ground burst, 1 megaton. Delivery: B43 bomb, laydown, B-52

-Pori: Airfield, ground burst. Delivery: B61 340kT, laydown, F-111

-Loviisa: Supply center for ground forces. Airburst. Delivery: Soviet missile, TR-1 Temp, (SS-22), 500kT

-Hämeenlinna: Supply center, site of various command posts. Airburst. Delivery: Soviet missile, TR-1 Temp, (SS-22), 500kT

-Tampere: Industrial and adminstrative center. Airburst. Delivery: B61 340kT, B-52

-Turku: Harbor: Ground burst, 1 megaton. Delivery: B43 bomb, laydown, B-52. Naantali Refinery: Airburst. Delivery: B61 340kT, B-52., Adminstrative center (Soviet strike): Airburst. Delivery: Soviet missile, TR-1 Temp, (SS-22), 500kT

- Helsinki: Shipbuilding and other industry (Ground zero at Hietalahti). Air burst, Delivery: B43 bomb, 1 Mt yield, B-52. Airfield: Ground burst, Delivery: B61 340kT, F-111. Adminstrative center and transportation (Soviet) Soviet missile, TR-1 Temp, (SS-22), 500kT, airburst.

- Kouvola: Marshalling yard, Soviet tactical strike, FROG-7 missile, 20kT airburst

- Joensuu: Tactical strike (command post and logistics), Soviet tactical strike, FROG-7 missile, 20kT airburst

- Kuopio (Rissala): Air Force area command center carved inside rock. Delivery: B43 1 megaton, laydown, F-111

- Kauhava: Airfield, ground burst. Delivery: B61 340kT, laydown, B-52

- Oulu: Airfield, ground burst. Delivery: B61 340kT, laydown, B-52. Due to old co-ordinates bomb missed and exploded in city center.

- Kemi: Airfield, ground burst. Delivery: B61 340kT, laydown, B-52.

- Mariehamn: Airfield, harbor, adminstrative center. Soviet strike. Soviet missile, TR-1 Temp, (SS-22), 500kT, airburst.

- Tactical targets in Lapland: 10kT B61 nuclear weapons delivered by Norwegian F-16's.
 

Thank you for that, you have given this some thought. I'll get throught that list in the light of my literature and see how that affects my future plans.:)

One point still about the nukes used in Finland. I am working within P&S canon, and the TL clearly states that even the Swedish have very little information about Finland months after the exchange. Strictly speaking even more devastation would be needed in Finland (or Sweden) to realistically achieve that. I think these targets are actually within the minimum range to render the Finnish government this unable to function. There is also some bad luck and other things that explain the situation, but I'll get to that later...
 
- Jyväskylä: Target is the AF Headquarters carved deep inside rock formation (Kanavuori). Megaton sized ground burst. Delivery: B43 1 megaton, laydown, F-111

Why would the Yankees target the FAF COM? It does not pose any kind of threat to the US interests. More likely the NATO will render all relevant Finnish airfields and some transportation hubs useless with tactical nukes, unless ofcourse somehow the government would invoke YYA-treaty and ally with the Soviets. Soviets OTOH would probably concentrate on breaking the back of Finland and forcing it either out of the war or forcing it to permit Soviet troop movement inside our borders unopposed. That is if there are any troops with offensive capabilities left in the Leningrad military oblast. Otherwise you have some nice targets there.:cool:

I don't think much megaton class weapons would have been used against Finland bar Helsinki. Lapland would be laid to waste amidst the warring powerblocs though.
 

John Farson

Banned
Thank you for that, you have given this some thought. I'll get throught that list in the light of my literature and see how that affects my future plans.:)

One point still about the nukes used in Finland. I am working within P&S canon, and the TL clearly states that even the Swedish have very little information about Finland months after the exchange. Strictly speaking even more devastation would be needed in Finland (or Sweden) to realistically achieve that. I think these targets are actually within the minimum range to render the Finnish government this unable to function. There is also some bad luck and other things that explain the situation, but I'll get to that later...

I vote for Sweden getting hit hard as well. There's no reason why they can't share in the... fun. They are the largest and richest country in Northern Europe, after all, and could therefore represent a potential military threat for whatever was left of the NW USSR.

Besides, Finland has been hit hard enough as it is, here. And I agree with others that even this is probably overkill.
 
Why would the Yankees target the FAF COM? It does not pose any kind of threat to the US interests.

A working AD system presents a possible threat to penetration of American bombers. At this level of global exchange it's possible that they destroy Finnish AD network just to make sure. Additionally, some SRAM missiles might get used against Finnish long range radars.

I don't think much megaton class weapons would have been used against Finland bar Helsinki. Lapland would be laid to waste amidst the warring powerblocs though.

For destroying harbors and command centers buried deep inside rock only megaton yield weapons are really suitable. Lapland is too large to be destroyed, really.
 
best Protect and Survive sequel. It has all the realism and pathos of the original series. I have been thinking of an Aussie sequel called She'll be Right
 
One point still about the nukes used in Finland. I am working within P&S canon, and the TL clearly states that even the Swedish have very little information about Finland months after the exchange. Strictly speaking even more devastation would be needed in Finland (or Sweden) to realistically achieve that. I think these targets are actually within the minimum range to render the Finnish government this unable to function. There is also some bad luck and other things that explain the situation, but I'll get to that later...

I do agree with you, and what weapons I listed I tried to go for the worst case scenario given your limits of some 20 weapons.

I vote for Sweden getting hit hard as well. There's no reason why they can't share in the... fun. They are the largest and richest country in Northern Europe, after all, and could therefore represent a potential military threat for whatever was left of the NW USSR.

The idea is that Sweden has somehow survived in P&S, albeit damaged I'd guess. Sweden is much more open to fallout from Germany, has more concentrated population and above all, is probably seen as NATO ally from Soviet viewpoint. IMHO, in a P&S scenario if Finland receives some 20 nuclear warheads the number Sweden will be in region of a hundred, perhaps. Why? Swedish air defense should be crushed in order for Soviet bombers to get over North Sea onwards toward Britain, France, and other targets. But I think DrakonFin is doing a great job keeping up with the canon story.
 
The so called target list is just that, a list of targets preanalysed in case one might want to bomb the mentioned targets. Just like a (say) infantry battalion has a list of preplanned artillery targets to be struck in need.

Since the intention is to whack Finland, I think the list of targets is appropriate. To spice up things a little, a lot of the targets could realistically have ground bursts. Here's my WAG according to story what might get used. Problem is, that population centers seem to survive.

- Jyväskylä: Target is the AF Headquarters carved deep inside rock formation (Kanavuori). Megaton sized ground burst. Delivery: B43 1 megaton, laydown, F-111

-Rovaniemi: Railroad marshalling yard and bridges. Ground burst, 1 megaton. Delivery: B43 bomb, laydown, B-52

-Pori: Airfield, ground burst. Delivery: B61 340kT, laydown, F-111

-Loviisa: Supply center for ground forces. Airburst. Delivery: Soviet missile, TR-1 Temp, (SS-22), 500kT

-Hämeenlinna: Supply center, site of various command posts. Airburst. Delivery: Soviet missile, TR-1 Temp, (SS-22), 500kT

-Tampere: Industrial and adminstrative center. Airburst. Delivery: B61 340kT, B-52

-Turku: Harbor: Ground burst, 1 megaton. Delivery: B43 bomb, laydown, B-52. Naantali Refinery: Airburst. Delivery: B61 340kT, B-52., Adminstrative center (Soviet strike): Airburst. Delivery: Soviet missile, TR-1 Temp, (SS-22), 500kT

- Helsinki: Shipbuilding and other industry (Ground zero at Hietalahti). Air burst, Delivery: B43 bomb, 1 Mt yield, B-52. Airfield: Ground burst, Delivery: B61 340kT, F-111. Adminstrative center and transportation (Soviet) Soviet missile, TR-1 Temp, (SS-22), 500kT, airburst.

- Kouvola: Marshalling yard, Soviet tactical strike, FROG-7 missile, 20kT airburst

- Joensuu: Tactical strike (command post and logistics), Soviet tactical strike, FROG-7 missile, 20kT airburst

- Kuopio (Rissala): Air Force area command center carved inside rock. Delivery: B43 1 megaton, laydown, F-111

- Kauhava: Airfield, ground burst. Delivery: B61 340kT, laydown, B-52

- Oulu: Airfield, ground burst. Delivery: B61 340kT, laydown, B-52. Due to old co-ordinates bomb missed and exploded in city center.

- Kemi: Airfield, ground burst. Delivery: B61 340kT, laydown, B-52.

- Mariehamn: Airfield, harbor, adminstrative center. Soviet strike. Soviet missile, TR-1 Temp, (SS-22), 500kT, airburst.

- Tactical targets in Lapland: 10kT B61 nuclear weapons delivered by Norwegian F-16's.

*Shivers*
As a private message, I had made a list and brief description (in Italian) of almost 50 NUDETs and aftereffects in NW Italy (from the Adda and Taro rivers west) for Mario Rossi's "Noi non ci saremo" project; it was, I find, consistent with this scale of massacre. Mario rejected about half of those targets out of several considerations upon Soviet capabilities and intentions, and will be to him to make a final target list consistent with his story. I always remain ready to collaborate with him on the issue, anyway.

ps ok, I admit that so many devices for NW Italy is overkill; say a bare minimum of a dozen ones to a maximum of more than 30.
 
Last edited:
The idea is that Sweden has somehow survived in P&S, albeit damaged I'd guess. Sweden is much more open to fallout from Germany, has more concentrated population and above all, is probably seen as NATO ally from Soviet viewpoint. IMHO, in a P&S scenario if Finland receives some 20 nuclear warheads the number Sweden will be in region of a hundred, perhaps. Why? Swedish air defense should be crushed in order for Soviet bombers to get over North Sea onwards toward Britain, France, and other targets. But I think DrakonFin is doing a great job keeping up with the canon story.

I think that one hundred warheads on Sweden is overkill considering that Britain did not even get that number in total (it was close though). Crushing Swedish air defence should be rather easy with concentrated fighter sweeps and concentrated air attacks. The number of fighters at Sweden disposal is limited and attrition will be very severe very early with modern missiles and such. After three days of fighting I would not be surprised if Sweden has lost one hundred or even two hundred fighters, which would be enough to reduce its ability to strike back. Conventional runway cratering can also do a lot of damage by itself.

Stockholm will have been targetted in Sweden in my opinion, alongside with major bases in the centre and the north of the country. I would expect most large towns outside of Stockholm to survive untouched however. Arlanda airport may also have escaped being bombed, either through luck, or through a faulty warhead. I mention this because if it indeed has survived, SAS fleet of DC10s and Boeing 747 will be available for long range communication with the outside world.
 
I think that one hundred warheads on Sweden is overkill considering that Britain did not even get that number in total (it was close though). Crushing Swedish air defence should be rather easy with concentrated fighter sweeps and concentrated air attacks. The number of fighters at Sweden disposal is limited and attrition will be very severe very early with modern missiles and such. After three days of fighting I would not be surprised if Sweden has lost one hundred or even two hundred fighters, which would be enough to reduce its ability to strike back. Conventional runway cratering can also do a lot of damage by itself.

Stockholm will have been targetted in Sweden in my opinion, alongside with major bases in the centre and the north of the country. I would expect most large towns outside of Stockholm to survive untouched however. Arlanda airport may also have escaped being bombed, either through luck, or through a faulty warhead. I mention this because if it indeed has survived, SAS fleet of DC10s and Boeing 747 will be available for long range communication with the outside world.

Sweden was a thorny issue, in the end I think it would be hit by no more than a dozen devices, likely on c-c-c military centers and airfields, plus Stockholm, depending on Soviet operation plans (for conventional warfare). Wouldn't be too surprised by an maerican strategic warhead area denial nuking of the Strait area between Malmoe and Kobenhav, in the event the Soviets conquer it.
 
Top