Protect and Survive: A Timeline

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Nothing but a few villages and small towns exists in Denmark.

To plaster Denmark with more than 20 nukes, you really have to go.....counter-area and nuke it because it is there (given the idiocy of nuclear war, one cannot rule this possibility out). I cannot think of many actual targets there unless you have a nuclear naval battle waged there.



that's some sad stuff to consider.

thousands of nukes, diverting 20 is like a "sprinkle" of oregano when making a metaphorical pizza out of Europe.
 
Nothing but a few villages and small towns exists in Denmark.

To plaster Denmark with more than 20 nukes, you really have to go.....counter-area and nuke it because it is there (given the idiocy of nuclear war, one cannot rule this possibility out). I cannot think of many actual targets there unless you have a nuclear naval battle waged there.

?

The Soviets wanted to use 76 nukes on Schleswig-Holstein alone, so I assume 20 nukes for Denmark are possible.
 
20 nukes for Denmark is way too low.As I said near the front lines both sides would go wild when it comes to targeting ,literally anything they can target will be targeted.Anywhere soviet and enemy forces meet once the go order is given anything in sight is nuked.I would estimate 100 or more nukes for Denmark, literally carpet-nuking it.I'm sorry for any danish fans but the danes are gone.Small villages and very small towns are all that is left.Further away from the front lines we wouldn't get to that level of overkill but anywhere near it its everything in sight.It also makes sense since near the front lines troops would be in almost every city and town or near it.While not all would have large numbers because of its proximity to the front there would conceivably be at least a company of men near some town or village.Once you introduce nukes on the battlefield the temptation to use them even for unimportant enemy forces is too great.
 
It would be awesome to get a source for this :)!

This articel:
http://www.alternatewars.com/WW3/the_war_that_never_was.htm


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]That is what the Warsaw Pact high command expected. At least, so say some of the more than 25,000 GDR military documents that came into possession of the Federal German Ministry of Defense on 3 October 1990, as a result of the unification of the Germanys. Those documents chronicle high-level Warsaw Pact staff exercises, and what is fascinating about them is not merely the speed at which the Soviets intended to conduct military operations (an advance so rapid Soviet category II and III units could not have been mobilized and deployed). Rather, it is the fact that from 1988 and beyond the Soviets seemed to believe such a victory was possible only by massive initial use of tactical nuclear weapons. Indeed, some 840 warheads were to be used, some 76 to devastate the border area of Schleswig-Holstein alone in the northeastern FRG. Those same exercises prepared commanders for an initial or retaliatory NATO nuclear strike involving 1,528 to 2,714 warheads-the exact number expected depending on such factors as French participation in NATO operations. Final authority for nuclear release, and the dangerous consequences of escalation, naturally resided in the hands of the General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.[/FONT]​

A very interesting read.
 
This articel:
http://www.alternatewars.com/WW3/the_war_that_never_was.htm


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]That is what the Warsaw Pact high command expected. At least, so say some of the more than 25,000 GDR military documents that came into possession of the Federal German Ministry of Defense on 3 October 1990, as a result of the unification of the Germanys. Those documents chronicle high-level Warsaw Pact staff exercises, and what is fascinating about them is not merely the speed at which the Soviets intended to conduct military operations (an advance so rapid Soviet category II and III units could not have been mobilized and deployed). Rather, it is the fact that from 1988 and beyond the Soviets seemed to believe such a victory was possible only by massive initial use of tactical nuclear weapons. Indeed, some 840 warheads were to be used, some 76 to devastate the border area of Schleswig-Holstein alone in the northeastern FRG. Those same exercises prepared commanders for an initial or retaliatory NATO nuclear strike involving 1,528 to 2,714 warheads-the exact number expected depending on such factors as French participation in NATO operations. Final authority for nuclear release, and the dangerous consequences of escalation, naturally resided in the hands of the General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.[/FONT]​

A very interesting read.

Note the highlighted part above. The scenario in TTL is set 4 years before the Soviets adopted the strategy you cite (a citation from a secondary, not a primary source).
 
Despite the vast numbers of soldiers, tanks and cannon it deployed, GSFG as a conventional force had failed.

Mmmm, sort-of bollocks.

The simple fact is that PGM's and similar weapons would not be available in the needed quantities to have the influence that Ogarkov feared until the late-90s. Before then, the Soviet Ground Forces would remain NATO's conventional superior... except for one thing.

The post-88 shift was more based on the simple fact that the woes of the Soviet economy was finally inflicting its damage on the Soviet military and both troop morale and discipline was going straight to hell.

Also, the report apparently makes the classic mistake of assuming the equipment fielded by the Iraqis were as good as the same equipment fielded by the Soviets. Pro-tip: Iraqi T-72s were either the 'M' model which was specifically designed for export and deliberately given the crappy stuff in the process or they were the even WORSE locally-built knock-offs. Oh, and the tank gun ammunition the Iraqis used was locally-built junk that was beyond horrible.
 
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Macragge1

Banned
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Err, Sultan, this is Saracen Five-Six-Six, are you there, over?

Saracen Five-Six-Six receiving, over

Sultan, we're...we're getting some strange signals from--------

Saracen Five-Six-Six this is Sultan, say again your last, over

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Saracen Five-Six-Six this is Sultan, are you receiving, over?

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Saracen Five-Six-Six - Do you read us, over?

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Well written and ghastly, chilling TL. The sources of inspiration are certainly visible, but you've created a great story that holds up on its own.

You know, I'm actually glad central Europe would be utterly obliterated in an all-out nuke war. Baking powder obliterated. There's no way in hell that a buffer state like Czechoslovakia or Poland could survive a clash of two nuke-tossing superpowers. Besides, we ourselves had some lighter arsenals of that filth back then, until they got promptly phased out after the end of the commie era.

I'll be unpleasantly surprised if there is a single soul still alive in central Europe. I just don't think it's possible at all given all the hell the world went through in this TL.

Apropo, though I doubt there'd be any will to adapt this, some of the loonier fringe groups in the survivor states (ha ha is the word) might adapt new calendars given how humanity has plummeted into a dark age. I'd suggest the acronym ATEW (After the End War). Naturally, those that still cling to pre-war culture will also keep the classic calendars.
 

Hnau

Banned
I'm just getting started on this timeline after having read a considerable amount of the other spin-offs (I'm American, sue me, I thought the American spin-offs were more interesting at first :rolleyes:). But man, is there any way that someone could make a Protect and Survive wiki to organize all of the stuff you guys have put together! It's so awesome but I have to wade through so many many pages to put things together.

Maybe this has already been done, if so, please post a link!

Thanks for your awesome work!
 
And now the fallout from Protect & Survive spreads to ASB!

I'm pretty sure that's a compliment. :D

Falkenburg
Good Lord. . . two of the most well-written timelines on AH.com collide. . . to create the most depressing and futile timelines ever. Radiation aside, I don't think the world of P&S could survive the Grex for more than a year. At least the Grex will have disgestive problems when consuming the irradiated remnant of humanity. . .
 
Hello everyone!
New guy here; finally signed up after months of lurking.
Just wanted to pass on my compliments to Macragge1 for his excellent work on this, and to the others for their work on the spinoffs.
Keep up the good work!
 
Macragge1, were there any conventional air attacks on Britain before the nuclear exchange (they were in The Last War and The Third World War)?
 
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