You also called Robert Taft "Richard Taft"
See, told you that wasn't the only typo I made.
TL-191: Filling the Gaps
- Thread starter Craigo
- Start date
See, told you that wasn't the only typo I made.
Now that Bayard is no longer President 1869-1873, I have to repair the narrative. Thomas Hendricks will be the 18th POTUS, with Joel Parker of New Jersey as his running mate. Anywhere that Hendricks is mentioned will be replaced with Bayard. I just hope it's not too late to edit my posts.
The 1876 election is pretty complicated, so it may take me a while to get it straight in my head. George Thomas is coming as well, I promise, then probably the 1879 Confederate election and Cuba.
The 1876 election is pretty complicated, so it may take me a while to get it straight in my head. George Thomas is coming as well, I promise, then probably the 1879 Confederate election and Cuba.
Confederate Generals-in-Chief/Chiefs of Staff
1864-1870: Robert E. Lee
1870-1876: Braxton Bragg
1876-1886: Thomas Jackson
1886-1893: Ambrose Powell Hill
1893-1899: William Preston Johnston
1899-1912: Horatio Sellars
1912-1918: Clifton Rodes Breckinridge
1918-1936: James Ewell Brown Stuart, Jr.
1936-1940: George C. Marshall
1940-1944: Nathan Bedford Forrest III
1944: Benjamin Willard
1944: Cyril Northcote
1864-1870: Robert E. Lee
1870-1876: Braxton Bragg
1876-1886: Thomas Jackson
1886-1893: Ambrose Powell Hill
1893-1899: William Preston Johnston
1899-1912: Horatio Sellars
1912-1918: Clifton Rodes Breckinridge
1918-1936: James Ewell Brown Stuart, Jr.
1936-1940: George C. Marshall
1940-1944: Nathan Bedford Forrest III
1944: Benjamin Willard
1944: Cyril Northcote
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I don't think it makes a lot of sense to make Clifton Rhodes Breckinridge in the military. I think it would make more sense that he became a politician like his father. And would A.P. Hill live into the 1890s? He would only be in his 60s, but he was sick A LOT! I'm shocked he lived to the end of the war in our timeline.....
Oops, I was thinking of his OTL death.
As for Clifton, one of my key points is to show how many talented men joined the military in 191, instead of other fields. Breckinridge, Cardozo (judge), Bierce (writer) and Thomas Hunt Morgan (geneticist) were the ones I chose. For Clifton, I imagine that he became in 1881 a political general like his father, fought in Kentucky, and stayed in afterwards. And in any case, too many political Breckinridges during the late 19th century interferes with some of the post I've written or planned.
My feeling was that Hill's sick spells were psychosomatic, a result of combat stress. The other theory is that he had gonorrhea. I didn't think either would interfere with a long life.
It would just be wonderful if you could do a biography of John Wayne, also known as the greatest actor EVER.
It would just be wonderful if you could do a biography of John Wayne, also known as the greatest actor EVER.
We'll...agree to disagree on that one.
I've been thinking long and hard about postwar TL-191, so I'm certain he'll come up.
If you do start to do post Second Great War stuff, I say you just keep doing the biographys and other informative posts. I think step-by-step timelines just get too long and complicated.
Revised
United States Constitutional Amendments
13th (1870): Provides that the federal amendment must pass a balanced budget each year, unless there exists a state of war. Driven by the enormous national debt caused by the War of Secession and the Panic of 1863.
14th (1880): Abolished slavery within the United States. Passed by Congress in 1865, it was not ratified by 3/4 of the states for 15 years. By this time, Missouri, Maryland and Delaware had all abolished slavery as well.
15th (1884): Prohibited Americans from accepting titles of nobility. Originally introduced as part of the Bill of Rights, it was ratified by the states during the anti-foreign backlash following the Second Mexican War. Congress later clarified the amendment to allow US citizens to accept decorations and honors from foreign allies such as Germany.
16th (1890): Provided the federal government with a general police power, providing that it did not conflict with existing Constitutional provisions. The Conscription Act of 1886 was upheld by the Supreme Court by a vote of 5-4 in Liberty Union v. Butler (1888), with all three Republicans joining two Democrats. Concerned that the new rationing laws would not survive challenge, a coalition of Republicans and Hard Line Democrats quickly ratified this amendment.
17th (1893): Allowed the federal government to impose a direct income tax. It rapidly became clear that the 13th Amendment and an expanded peacetime military could not peacefully co-exist. It also incorporated the Bill of Rights to the states.
18th (1902):Provided that Congress would meet in the March following the election, instead of the December after that, due to the improvements in transportation during the 19th century. Sometimes called the Lame Duck Amendment.
19th (1928): Granted women's suffrage in Presidential elections. A more comprehensive version, granting suffrage in all Federal elections, failed earlier in the decade. In many states, women could vote only for the President.
20th (1930): Mandated that US Senators be directly elected. Previously, states chose the manner in which senators were chosen, and most were appointed by the legislature.It also provided that Congress and the President and Vice President should be sworn in on February 1, instead of March 4. As it turns out, this was not early enough for President-elect Calvin Coolidge, who died in January 1933.
21st (1945): Provided for the appointment of a Vice President when that office remains vacant. During the Second Great War, many worried that the death of Charles La Follette, who had succeeded the late Al Smith, would throw the government into chaos, as the President pro tempore of the Senate, next in line tended to be very elderly. (The succession was changed to run through the cabinet the same year.)
23rd (1946): Lowered the voting age from 21 to 18. As Vice-President Harry Truman, a veteran of the Great War, said, "If you're old enough to fight, you're old enough to vote." First passed by Congress in 1921.
23rd (1947): Provided for equal rights under the law for all American citizens, regardless of state, race, ethnicity, or religion. It also confirmed the citizenship of anyone born in the United States, finally overturning the Dred Scott decision of 1857. The Civil Rights Act of 1945, intended to protect North America's remaining Negroes, was winding its way through the courts when the Congress passed the Amendment. The Bradley Court upheld the Act under the Fifth and Sixteenth Amendments, but the amendment was ratified anyway.
Confederate States Constitutional Amendments
Balanced Budget Amendment (1873): Passed in response to the United States amendment, the two provisions were completely identical.
Manumission Amendment (1883): Provided that slaves would become free upon their 18th birthday, and that the children of slaves would be free. The last Confederate slaves were freed in 1900.
Income Tax Amendment (1900): Allowed Congress to impose a direct income tax. Orignally a Liberal proposal which gained support in the business wing of the Whigs.
Seven Words Amendment (1938): Allowed Confederate presidents to be re-elected. Essentially, this made Jake Featherston president for life, and instigated the Knight coup.
United States Constitutional Amendments
13th (1870): Provides that the federal amendment must pass a balanced budget each year, unless there exists a state of war. Driven by the enormous national debt caused by the War of Secession and the Panic of 1863.
14th (1880): Abolished slavery within the United States. Passed by Congress in 1865, it was not ratified by 3/4 of the states for 15 years. By this time, Missouri, Maryland and Delaware had all abolished slavery as well.
15th (1884): Prohibited Americans from accepting titles of nobility. Originally introduced as part of the Bill of Rights, it was ratified by the states during the anti-foreign backlash following the Second Mexican War. Congress later clarified the amendment to allow US citizens to accept decorations and honors from foreign allies such as Germany.
16th (1890): Provided the federal government with a general police power, providing that it did not conflict with existing Constitutional provisions. The Conscription Act of 1886 was upheld by the Supreme Court by a vote of 5-4 in Liberty Union v. Butler (1888), with all three Republicans joining two Democrats. Concerned that the new rationing laws would not survive challenge, a coalition of Republicans and Hard Line Democrats quickly ratified this amendment.
17th (1893): Allowed the federal government to impose a direct income tax. It rapidly became clear that the 13th Amendment and an expanded peacetime military could not peacefully co-exist. It also incorporated the Bill of Rights to the states.
18th (1902):Provided that Congress would meet in the March following the election, instead of the December after that, due to the improvements in transportation during the 19th century. Sometimes called the Lame Duck Amendment.
19th (1928): Granted women's suffrage in Presidential elections. A more comprehensive version, granting suffrage in all Federal elections, failed earlier in the decade. In many states, women could vote only for the President.
20th (1930): Mandated that US Senators be directly elected. Previously, states chose the manner in which senators were chosen, and most were appointed by the legislature.It also provided that Congress and the President and Vice President should be sworn in on February 1, instead of March 4. As it turns out, this was not early enough for President-elect Calvin Coolidge, who died in January 1933.
21st (1945): Provided for the appointment of a Vice President when that office remains vacant. During the Second Great War, many worried that the death of Charles La Follette, who had succeeded the late Al Smith, would throw the government into chaos, as the President pro tempore of the Senate, next in line tended to be very elderly. (The succession was changed to run through the cabinet the same year.)
23rd (1946): Lowered the voting age from 21 to 18. As Vice-President Harry Truman, a veteran of the Great War, said, "If you're old enough to fight, you're old enough to vote." First passed by Congress in 1921.
23rd (1947): Provided for equal rights under the law for all American citizens, regardless of state, race, ethnicity, or religion. It also confirmed the citizenship of anyone born in the United States, finally overturning the Dred Scott decision of 1857. The Civil Rights Act of 1945, intended to protect North America's remaining Negroes, was winding its way through the courts when the Congress passed the Amendment. The Bradley Court upheld the Act under the Fifth and Sixteenth Amendments, but the amendment was ratified anyway.
Confederate States Constitutional Amendments
Balanced Budget Amendment (1873): Passed in response to the United States amendment, the two provisions were completely identical.
Manumission Amendment (1883): Provided that slaves would become free upon their 18th birthday, and that the children of slaves would be free. The last Confederate slaves were freed in 1900.
Income Tax Amendment (1900): Allowed Congress to impose a direct income tax. Orignally a Liberal proposal which gained support in the business wing of the Whigs.
Seven Words Amendment (1938): Allowed Confederate presidents to be re-elected. Essentially, this made Jake Featherston president for life, and instigated the Knight coup.
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bguy
Donor
Good list of amendments. Just a few questions/comments:
1) Why did it take so long to ratify the anti-slavery amendment? Would that many states really oppose ratification?
2) Why wasn't there an amendment explicitly prohibiting secession? Seems like one would be useful in the wake of a successful southern secession to take away the legal basis for any further secession movements.
3) Would the police power amendment also establish the constitutional basis for any Socialist social welfare legislation? Seeing as how we never hear about any of their laws being invalidated by the courts, despite both Flora and Chester Martin worrying about Democrat judges, it appears they were upheld.
4) With the US occupying Canada and so much Confederate territory after the First Great War, why wasn't there an amendment clarifying the legal status of the occupied territories (specifically whether the Bill of Rights applies in them or not.) Was there some TL-191 version of the Insular Cases that took away the need for an explicit amendment?
5) The US switched to popularly elected Senators at some point before 1929. (Morrell mentions this fact in TCCH following the Confederate elections in 1929.) That pretty much has to be done by constitutional amendment and would fit in very well with your listed 18th Amendment.
1) Why did it take so long to ratify the anti-slavery amendment? Would that many states really oppose ratification?
2) Why wasn't there an amendment explicitly prohibiting secession? Seems like one would be useful in the wake of a successful southern secession to take away the legal basis for any further secession movements.
3) Would the police power amendment also establish the constitutional basis for any Socialist social welfare legislation? Seeing as how we never hear about any of their laws being invalidated by the courts, despite both Flora and Chester Martin worrying about Democrat judges, it appears they were upheld.
4) With the US occupying Canada and so much Confederate territory after the First Great War, why wasn't there an amendment clarifying the legal status of the occupied territories (specifically whether the Bill of Rights applies in them or not.) Was there some TL-191 version of the Insular Cases that took away the need for an explicit amendment?
5) The US switched to popularly elected Senators at some point before 1929. (Morrell mentions this fact in TCCH following the Confederate elections in 1929.) That pretty much has to be done by constitutional amendment and would fit in very well with your listed 18th Amendment.
Are you sure the Confederates would give women the right to vote? All the southern female characters (excluding Anne Colleton) don't seem to have a lot of power. I remember that during the Great War, Anne mentions how she didn't campaign for women's suffrage because it would just end in failure. And I remember a comment by Hipolito Rodriguez, in which he mentions that women's voting was the farthest thing from Sonora.
How about a post about Featherston's Confederacy before the war; just the years from 1934-1941. Major legislation, important people, how things changed for other people besides blacks, minor events not mentioned in the books, etc. I think that would be pretty interesting.
Anti-Negro backlash, coupled with a Democratic resurgence. In OTL, Democratic congressmen and state legislatures tended to be opposed to the 13th amendment. Here, it's not until the GOP is revived that the amendment can pass. I originally had it even later, but HFR says it was ratified before the Second Mexican War.
I thought that a rump USA would view an anti-secession amendment as admitting that the Confederates were right, which most northerners would hate to do. I have the Bates Court hand down a ruling similar to Texas v. White in 1865, declaring secession illegal but acknowledging the right to revolution.
That's exactly what I had in mind.
For those who are interested in alternate history jurisprudence (all one of you), the Supreme Court, in order to declare a law properly enacted pursuant to the general police power, must find that it is necessary to protect or advance a compelling public interest.
You're anticipating me everywhere here. The Supreme Court held in Meighen v. Thomas (1925)that occupied lands were unorganized territories unless the Federal government passed an organic act, admitted it to the Union, or ceded sovereignty; and that the Constitution did not apply to unorganized territories. (Sequoyah, which was an organized territory after being conquered by the US, was a different case from Canada, Utah, or the Sandwich Islands).
During the 20th century, organic acts began to be referred to as home rule bills. All three are still unorganized, though the Sandwich Islands is coming close.
I thought I had one in there. My fault.
One of the last two books. It was mentioned in one of Jeff Pinkard's chapters.
bguy
Donor
Were Northern Democrats really opposed to the 13th amendment on its own merits though or was their opposition more because they thought the amendment would kill any chance for peaceful reunion with the South? Though I suppose that even after losing the War of Secession there would still be large numbers of Democrats holding out hope of convincing the CSA to rejoin the United States that would therefore still oppose an anti-slavery amendment.
That thought did occur to me. OTOH, the Democrats might still be willing to tacitly admit the Confederates were right about the legality of secession since it gives them another line of attack on the Republicans (not only was the war incompetently managed, but it was illegal to boot) and gives the peace Democrats a little more cover for their obstruction of the war effort.
That certainly tracks with what the books imply about Hamilton being the most popular and influential Founding Father in the post-War of Secession US.
Hmmm, that actually puts me in mind to request another topic from you. Any chance for a post on US and/or CS domestic security policies during the Great Wars? We see a lot in the books about how the US handled the Mormons and the CS the black rebels, but not really anything about how either side dealt with non-revolutionary dissent.