Map Thread VI
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Pretty nice, Axeman. Lot of work there.
This one was inspired by a AH scenario by Randy McDonald on his blog... http://rfmcdpei.livejournal.com/
"This provocative book-length exploration of the vicissitudes of Prussia as had the luck to be published on the two hundred year anniversary of the constitution of the modern Prussian state with the definitive annexation of Galicia that defined this state's eastern frontiers for the next two centuries. Even now that an associated broad Europe has allowed for a certain pan-nationalism, Prussia remains unique as a successful multinational state in north-central Europe, more effective in satisfying nationalist demands than, a perennially unstable Russia that keeps shedding provinces or a Swedish realm that no longer exists at all.
How did this happen? A variety of compelling articles explain how.
• Vesper and Cywinski's introduction, "Prussia Between Russia and Germany," properly situates the origins of modern Prussia in the unique positions of both Prussia and Poland between a threatening Holy Roman Empire of fragile German states and their menacing Great Power allies and an expansive Russia. The travails of the Polish Partitions that saw ethnic Poland placed under Prussia control may have occurred with the intent of creating a broader Prussian realm, the authors note, but it also had the effect of creating a Prussian monarchy with a citizenry concentrated in lands once belonging to the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth. Napoleonic promises of liberation to Prussian Germans and Poles had their effect, but the Russian armies also ready to be massed on the states eastern frontier also counted. Is it any wonder, the authors ask, that the 1817 proclamation of the union of Polish notables with the Hohenzollern dynasty was made sincerely?
• Chapter 3 by Kempel, "The Constitution of the Prussian Populations," is a compelling statistical analysis of the population trends, marking the relative intensification of Polish migration (and Polish assimilation) in most of German-populated Prussia apart from the famously pluricultural region of Silesia, and the diffusion of Poland's Jews westwards following typical patterns of chain migration. Wozniak and Dombrowski's Chapter 4, a survey of the major constitutional developments in Prussia history, makes the telling point that the territorial Estates active on the ground since 1897 have been quite functional, united by the relatively strong presence of the monarchy as symbolic guardians of the untidy of the realm--guardians, it might be added, whose role has been sanctified by first the Great Northern war then by the Wars of Austrian Dissolution earlier in the 20th century.
• Foreign policy is treated by Kostova at length (Chapter 9, "Prussia In A Changing World"), as she examines the multipolarity that allowed Prussia to remain at a profitable equidistance from the European republic's alliance around France and Germany, the northern monarchies' of Sweden and especially Britain, and a Russia resentful of Prussia's notable economic success. Yager's Chapter 10, "Prussian Militarism In The Post-Napoleonic World," particularly the role of the nobility in a professionalized military as titular and sometimes more-than-titular heads of the famously efficient Landeswehr. The treatment of Prussia's atomic weaponry program is brief, but modern force levels, especially on the eastern frontier and with the hypersonics, are covered at length.
• The populations of smaller minorities apart from the Prussian Germans and the Poles are treated spottily neglected. Prussian pragmatism did, as explored in Chapter 9 by Savukynas et al., "Lithuania Between Grand Duchy And Nation," allow Prussia to manage the absorption of its Lithuanian conquests into the Prussian realm more efficiently than Sweden did its Baltic and Karelian acquisitions. Although there were explorations of the effects of Prussia on Jews in in Chapter 11 (Todorsky et al, "Yiddish Or German? Debates On the Jewish National Language") and Chapter 12 (Braunstein and Kaplan, "The Jews of Olystyn and Berlin: A Study In Migration") this collection is lacking. Finally, Czechs, Lemko and Masurians are no treated at all.
• Finally, the concluding Chapter 15, Soderström's "Prussia In The Future," is a worthwhile survey of continuing trends--the Bund's increasingly notable loudness on Palestinian affairs, ongoing disputes about the coincidence of ethnic with political frontiers, new migration trends from the wider world (the chain migration of Thais is given prominence in this), and declining economic growth--that is nonetheless bullish on Prussia's prospects. If nothing else, the latest convulsions to the east will serve as a deterrent to the few separatists"
Apologies to all for failing to save in the right format, and to Nietzsche for portraying a happily multicultural Prussia.
Bruce
This one was inspired by a AH scenario by Randy McDonald on his blog... http://rfmcdpei.livejournal.com/
"This provocative book-length exploration of the vicissitudes of Prussia as had the luck to be published on the two hundred year anniversary of the constitution of the modern Prussian state with the definitive annexation of Galicia that defined this state's eastern frontiers for the next two centuries. Even now that an associated broad Europe has allowed for a certain pan-nationalism, Prussia remains unique as a successful multinational state in north-central Europe, more effective in satisfying nationalist demands than, a perennially unstable Russia that keeps shedding provinces or a Swedish realm that no longer exists at all.
How did this happen? A variety of compelling articles explain how.
• Vesper and Cywinski's introduction, "Prussia Between Russia and Germany," properly situates the origins of modern Prussia in the unique positions of both Prussia and Poland between a threatening Holy Roman Empire of fragile German states and their menacing Great Power allies and an expansive Russia. The travails of the Polish Partitions that saw ethnic Poland placed under Prussia control may have occurred with the intent of creating a broader Prussian realm, the authors note, but it also had the effect of creating a Prussian monarchy with a citizenry concentrated in lands once belonging to the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth. Napoleonic promises of liberation to Prussian Germans and Poles had their effect, but the Russian armies also ready to be massed on the states eastern frontier also counted. Is it any wonder, the authors ask, that the 1817 proclamation of the union of Polish notables with the Hohenzollern dynasty was made sincerely?
• Chapter 3 by Kempel, "The Constitution of the Prussian Populations," is a compelling statistical analysis of the population trends, marking the relative intensification of Polish migration (and Polish assimilation) in most of German-populated Prussia apart from the famously pluricultural region of Silesia, and the diffusion of Poland's Jews westwards following typical patterns of chain migration. Wozniak and Dombrowski's Chapter 4, a survey of the major constitutional developments in Prussia history, makes the telling point that the territorial Estates active on the ground since 1897 have been quite functional, united by the relatively strong presence of the monarchy as symbolic guardians of the untidy of the realm--guardians, it might be added, whose role has been sanctified by first the Great Northern war then by the Wars of Austrian Dissolution earlier in the 20th century.
• Foreign policy is treated by Kostova at length (Chapter 9, "Prussia In A Changing World"), as she examines the multipolarity that allowed Prussia to remain at a profitable equidistance from the European republic's alliance around France and Germany, the northern monarchies' of Sweden and especially Britain, and a Russia resentful of Prussia's notable economic success. Yager's Chapter 10, "Prussian Militarism In The Post-Napoleonic World," particularly the role of the nobility in a professionalized military as titular and sometimes more-than-titular heads of the famously efficient Landeswehr. The treatment of Prussia's atomic weaponry program is brief, but modern force levels, especially on the eastern frontier and with the hypersonics, are covered at length.
• The populations of smaller minorities apart from the Prussian Germans and the Poles are treated spottily neglected. Prussian pragmatism did, as explored in Chapter 9 by Savukynas et al., "Lithuania Between Grand Duchy And Nation," allow Prussia to manage the absorption of its Lithuanian conquests into the Prussian realm more efficiently than Sweden did its Baltic and Karelian acquisitions. Although there were explorations of the effects of Prussia on Jews in in Chapter 11 (Todorsky et al, "Yiddish Or German? Debates On the Jewish National Language") and Chapter 12 (Braunstein and Kaplan, "The Jews of Olystyn and Berlin: A Study In Migration") this collection is lacking. Finally, Czechs, Lemko and Masurians are no treated at all.
• Finally, the concluding Chapter 15, Soderström's "Prussia In The Future," is a worthwhile survey of continuing trends--the Bund's increasingly notable loudness on Palestinian affairs, ongoing disputes about the coincidence of ethnic with political frontiers, new migration trends from the wider world (the chain migration of Thais is given prominence in this), and declining economic growth--that is nonetheless bullish on Prussia's prospects. If nothing else, the latest convulsions to the east will serve as a deterrent to the few separatists"
Apologies to all for failing to save in the right format, and to Nietzsche for portraying a happily multicultural Prussia.
Bruce
Nietzsche
Banned
Bah, I do not mind a multicultured Prussia. I endorse it. To be a Prussian is not to be a German, or a Pole, or a Balt or any other such nonsense. Prussian is a mindset. It is not just something you get for being born, one must earn it though service of the State, and His/Her Most Prussian Majesty. A way of life. To each their own, so long as they serve the State.Pretty nice, Axeman. Lot of work there.
This one was inspired by a AH scenario by Randy McDonald on his blog... http://rfmcdpei.livejournal.com/
"This provocative book-length exploration of the vicissitudes of Prussia as had the luck to be published on the two hundred year anniversary of the constitution of the modern Prussian state with the definitive annexation of Galicia that defined this state's eastern frontiers for the next two centuries. Even now that an associated broad Europe has allowed for a certain pan-nationalism, Prussia remains unique as a successful multinational state in north-central Europe, more effective in satisfying nationalist demands than, a perennially unstable Russia that keeps shedding provinces or a Swedish realm that no longer exists at all.
How did this happen? A variety of compelling articles explain how.
• Vesper and Cywinski's introduction, "Prussia Between Russia and Germany," properly situates the origins of modern Prussia in the unique positions of both Prussia and Poland between a threatening Holy Roman Empire of fragile German states and their menacing Great Power allies and an expansive Russia. The travails of the Polish Partitions that saw ethnic Poland placed under Prussia control may have occurred with the intent of creating a broader Prussian realm, the authors note, but it also had the effect of creating a Prussian monarchy with a citizenry concentrated in lands once belonging to the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth. Napoleonic promises of liberation to Prussian Germans and Poles had their effect, but the Russian armies also ready to be massed on the states eastern frontier also counted. Is it any wonder, the authors ask, that the 1817 proclamation of the union of Polish notables with the Hohenzollern dynasty was made sincerely?
• Chapter 3 by Kempel, "The Constitution of the Prussian Populations," is a compelling statistical analysis of the population trends, marking the relative intensification of Polish migration (and Polish assimilation) in most of German-populated Prussia apart from the famously pluricultural region of Silesia, and the diffusion of Poland's Jews westwards following typical patterns of chain migration. Wozniak and Dombrowski's Chapter 4, a survey of the major constitutional developments in Prussia history, makes the telling point that the territorial Estates active on the ground since 1897 have been quite functional, united by the relatively strong presence of the monarchy as symbolic guardians of the untidy of the realm--guardians, it might be added, whose role has been sanctified by first the Great Northern war then by the Wars of Austrian Dissolution earlier in the 20th century.
• Foreign policy is treated by Kostova at length (Chapter 9, "Prussia In A Changing World"), as she examines the multipolarity that allowed Prussia to remain at a profitable equidistance from the European republic's alliance around France and Germany, the northern monarchies' of Sweden and especially Britain, and a Russia resentful of Prussia's notable economic success. Yager's Chapter 10, "Prussian Militarism In The Post-Napoleonic World," particularly the role of the nobility in a professionalized military as titular and sometimes more-than-titular heads of the famously efficient Landeswehr. The treatment of Prussia's atomic weaponry program is brief, but modern force levels, especially on the eastern frontier and with the hypersonics, are covered at length.
• The populations of smaller minorities apart from the Prussian Germans and the Poles are treated spottily neglected. Prussian pragmatism did, as explored in Chapter 9 by Savukynas et al., "Lithuania Between Grand Duchy And Nation," allow Prussia to manage the absorption of its Lithuanian conquests into the Prussian realm more efficiently than Sweden did its Baltic and Karelian acquisitions. Although there were explorations of the effects of Prussia on Jews in in Chapter 11 (Todorsky et al, "Yiddish Or German? Debates On the Jewish National Language") and Chapter 12 (Braunstein and Kaplan, "The Jews of Olystyn and Berlin: A Study In Migration") this collection is lacking. Finally, Czechs, Lemko and Masurians are no treated at all.
• Finally, the concluding Chapter 15, Soderström's "Prussia In The Future," is a worthwhile survey of continuing trends--the Bund's increasingly notable loudness on Palestinian affairs, ongoing disputes about the coincidence of ethnic with political frontiers, new migration trends from the wider world (the chain migration of Thais is given prominence in this), and declining economic growth--that is nonetheless bullish on Prussia's prospects. If nothing else, the latest convulsions to the east will serve as a deterrent to the few separatists"
Apologies to all for failing to save in the right format, and to Nietzsche for portraying a happily multicultural Prussia.
Bruce
For Koenig or Kaiser. For God, Allah, Odin or What is Right itself. And Honour & Loyalty above all else.
I applaud this Prussia, and give it the Nietzschean stamp of approval.
Revolutionary Todyo
Banned
Patriotic much?
It's impressive for someone to be patriotic for a nation that no longer exists.
That's not a key. Its not labelled. MSPaint/Paint.NET/Whatever have text tools. Its not that hard, and it would make the map more accessible.
Nietzsche
Banned
Prussia was a state, not a nation. *smack*
You didn't have to be German to be Prussian. I am a Statist. Not a nationalist. And while that state no longer exists, I try to live by the Prussian Virtures. Thus, why I am one of the Last, if not The Last, Prussian.
m2thet5678
Banned
I wanted to make an artsy map but I got bored.
This is yet another of my unfinished timelines. What happens here is that Wellington (and several regiments of troops) are sent to North America (as almost happened in OTL, but Wellington opposed the war) and the Americans get beaten even worse than in OTL.
Over in Europe, because of no Wellington, Napoleon wins the battle of Waterloo. But of course, he loses anyways a few battles later against the massive forces of the Grand Alliance (Prussia, Russia, Austria). The difference? Now it's a victory of the Grand Alliance rather than a victory of Britain, so the resulting Congress of Vienna is a bit different.
-Poland is split between the Alliance rather than just Prussia and Russia.
-Ownership of Cape Colony is decided in favor of the Dutch (Britain still takes Ceylon)
-Land cessions from Bavaria to Austria
-Most of Southern Netherlands ("Belgium") is restored to Austria, small part goes to Westphalia. (OTL it was given to the Netherlands)
-Saxony is given to Prussia
-Large amounts of Italian land is given to Austria
Over in America, due to the increased British commitment to the War, the US is utterly defeated in around 1816, and is forced to cede the Ohio River Valley to Britain. Maine's boundary is decided in favor of the British rather than being disputed until 1842 as in OTL. The British also wanted Louisiana, but the Americans refused to give it up, and the British knew that it was worthless land anyways, so they just laughed at the Americans.
Because of the British victory in the War, there is even more friction between the pro-British Northern states and the rest of America, so the pro-British states secede and form their own Union as they were planning on doing in OTL.
This is yet another of my unfinished timelines. What happens here is that Wellington (and several regiments of troops) are sent to North America (as almost happened in OTL, but Wellington opposed the war) and the Americans get beaten even worse than in OTL.
Over in Europe, because of no Wellington, Napoleon wins the battle of Waterloo. But of course, he loses anyways a few battles later against the massive forces of the Grand Alliance (Prussia, Russia, Austria). The difference? Now it's a victory of the Grand Alliance rather than a victory of Britain, so the resulting Congress of Vienna is a bit different.
-Poland is split between the Alliance rather than just Prussia and Russia.
-Ownership of Cape Colony is decided in favor of the Dutch (Britain still takes Ceylon)
-Land cessions from Bavaria to Austria
-Most of Southern Netherlands ("Belgium") is restored to Austria, small part goes to Westphalia. (OTL it was given to the Netherlands)
-Saxony is given to Prussia
-Large amounts of Italian land is given to Austria
Over in America, due to the increased British commitment to the War, the US is utterly defeated in around 1816, and is forced to cede the Ohio River Valley to Britain. Maine's boundary is decided in favor of the British rather than being disputed until 1842 as in OTL. The British also wanted Louisiana, but the Americans refused to give it up, and the British knew that it was worthless land anyways, so they just laughed at the Americans.
Because of the British victory in the War, there is even more friction between the pro-British Northern states and the rest of America, so the pro-British states secede and form their own Union as they were planning on doing in OTL.
Revolutionary Todyo
Banned
Well sorry if I don't understand the intricate terminologies of the many German states, it's not something I've ever researched in-depth, nor to I wish to.
I suppose it is a state because of the many other states that were defined as German, so it was only a part of a nation post-unification?
Were the NE states really "pro-British" rather than "anti-getting-into-a-war-we-are-on-the-front-lines-for-and-that-will-mess-up-our-trade?"
Bruce
Very nice. Any hints as to what happens after 1816?
Edit:
I'd guess the US is pretty anti-British and would go to war as soon as the opportunity arises. New England doesn't want to become a battleground again, hence the secession.Were the NE states really "pro-British" rather than "anti-getting-into-a-war-we-are-on-the-front-lines-for-and-that-will-mess-up-our-trade?"
Bruce
I would change the New England colour, it's the same as Uninhabited. Looks like it got ISOTed.
m2thet5678
Banned
Were the NE states really "pro-British" rather than "anti-getting-into-a-war-we-are-on-the-front-lines-for-and-that-will-mess-up-our-trade?"
Bruce
Somewhere in between. The NE states contributed few troops (relative to Virginia, Pennsylvania and buddies), continued to trade with Britain (who only blockaded certain ports to increase tensions), weren't overrun with the war fever, and actually seriously considered secession before the war ended. I think that if the war continued and the US was humiliated, there would have been a kind of "I told you so" mentality among the NE, and secession would be realized.
Finally, certain Federalist leaders were actually literally pro-British, indeed it was part of the Federalist Party platform.
Well, here's what I was thinking:
-In the short term, the members of the Grand Alliance will begin to turn apart from each other. Prussia and Austria in particular will start splitting over issues of control over the minor German states and border disputes in Poland.
-Russia may consider campaigns against the Ottoman Empire as in OTL.
-Because of the victory of the arch-conservative alliance, liberalism will be weaker in this timeline, and the "Liberal Revolutions" of the 1820s won't be as powerful.
-Colonization will take a very different route, since Austria controls OTL "Belgium" and the Netherlands has Cape Colony.
-German unification is unlikely to be realized due to Austrian influence in the German states. But Prussia will probably pick up a few more states.
-OTL Hanover seriously disliked Prussia, and since Prussia is stronger in this timeline, Hanover might try to renew ties with Great Britain rather than abandoning them as in OTL due to the ascension of Victoria violating Salic Law.
-Russia is fairly similar to how it was in OTL, but is closer to Prussia than it was in OTL.
-Since Austria is far stronger in this timeline than in OTL, it may never be called "Austria-Hungary", and may live and prosper for a while longer.
Last edited:
Nietzsche
Banned
A state is like, say, Switzerland. There are a Swiss People, but they are made up of Italians, Roma, French & Germans. There are a Belgian people, but they are made up of Flems and Walloons. There's an Indian state, but they're made up of Odin-only-knows how many different nationalities.
There's an Austrian state, but they are Germans. A Nation is a collection of people of the same ethnic groups. Modern-day Germany is made up of Germans, but it is not quite a nation-state because it doesn't involve all German-speaking people.
made this just now. sorry for the choppy outlines; this is a swelled-up version of a much smaller map, and i cropped it to the relevent territory. this shows oceania in my ATL, where colonialism and aristocratic monarchies continue well into the near future, in 2032. as shown here, australia and new zealand remain british possessions, shown in pale red. french territory--new caledonia--is shown in blue, the red territory indicates indonesia, which is controlled by china (debatable; im thinking i may go back and carve it up between several european trade powers), while the green shows the some of the japanese empire's southernmost possessions.
as you can see by the gray lines on the map, australia is carved up into just five provinces: New South Wales (OTL NSW, Victoria, and capital territories), Queensland, Tasmania, Victoria (OTL South Australia), and Western Australia (OTL WA and Northern Territory). the continent has its own viceroy who answers to the emperor (OTL Prince of Wales, who ascended to the throne following Elizabeth II's passing)
new zealand has a seperate viceroy and is administered as the north and south islands instead of the OTL
as you can see by the gray lines on the map, australia is carved up into just five provinces: New South Wales (OTL NSW, Victoria, and capital territories), Queensland, Tasmania, Victoria (OTL South Australia), and Western Australia (OTL WA and Northern Territory). the continent has its own viceroy who answers to the emperor (OTL Prince of Wales, who ascended to the throne following Elizabeth II's passing)
new zealand has a seperate viceroy and is administered as the north and south islands instead of the OTL
5th century
What happened?
I'm sorry, but Vikings finding America in the 5th century = ASB, ASB, and ASB.
It makes me wonder if we have another Decades of Darkness on our hands..............?
Okay, but how did the seat of the emperor get created?
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