Canada Wank (YACW)
- Thread starter Dathi THorfinnsson
- Start date
- Status
Dathi
Ouch! That was messy and very costly for the Americans. Even without the special orders Gonzales has I can't see the Mexicans seeking to cross the river and the remaining Americans will be too weak. Also now their pretty much totally dependent on the Mexicans, which will sting. If they try doing anything on their own their likely to get duffed up by the Tejans. Not to mention I wonder who the ranking American commander is.
One thought I did have and probably makes what your done better than the idea I floated. Would the cavalry at that time have any guns themselves. A square fairly heavily outnumbered like that could be pretty vulnerable to being picked away by the cavalry under those circumstances, especially with the danger of getting overwhelmed if the line breaks.
On the wider picture, if the American force attacking New Orleans has already been defeated as you said Louisiana is now pretty safe and the American south is going to find itself very vulnerable. Especially if British forces start marching into it offering freedom to any slaves they come across. Depends on what they have attacking Florida. Probably also a lot of state militia who will hold the lines for the moment but can see the appetite for war in the south dwindling rapidly.
Even more so in Mexico when news of the American defeats reach the capital. Their going to realise their out on a very exposed limb and you might see some politicians argue for a drastic change in stance. ['So sorry we accidental infringed the Tejas borders' or blaming poor Gonzales for his unilateral action]. Whether it will be in time to save California I wonder. Might be in Britain's interest to make a quick peace presuming the Mexicans withdraw from Tejas. Avoids having to fight on yet another front, gets them out of there without the destruction of fighting and will probably deeper the rapidly growing gulf between Mexico and Washington.
Steve
PS Just a thought. The contempt the US forces, or at least Armstrong, has for the black militia. Is that because the force [or possibly him] is primarily from the southern US or an indication of the generally held view in the US?
Ouch! That was messy and very costly for the Americans. Even without the special orders Gonzales has I can't see the Mexicans seeking to cross the river and the remaining Americans will be too weak. Also now their pretty much totally dependent on the Mexicans, which will sting. If they try doing anything on their own their likely to get duffed up by the Tejans. Not to mention I wonder who the ranking American commander is.
One thought I did have and probably makes what your done better than the idea I floated. Would the cavalry at that time have any guns themselves. A square fairly heavily outnumbered like that could be pretty vulnerable to being picked away by the cavalry under those circumstances, especially with the danger of getting overwhelmed if the line breaks.
On the wider picture, if the American force attacking New Orleans has already been defeated as you said Louisiana is now pretty safe and the American south is going to find itself very vulnerable. Especially if British forces start marching into it offering freedom to any slaves they come across. Depends on what they have attacking Florida. Probably also a lot of state militia who will hold the lines for the moment but can see the appetite for war in the south dwindling rapidly.
Even more so in Mexico when news of the American defeats reach the capital. Their going to realise their out on a very exposed limb and you might see some politicians argue for a drastic change in stance. ['So sorry we accidental infringed the Tejas borders' or blaming poor Gonzales for his unilateral action]. Whether it will be in time to save California I wonder. Might be in Britain's interest to make a quick peace presuming the Mexicans withdraw from Tejas. Avoids having to fight on yet another front, gets them out of there without the destruction of fighting and will probably deeper the rapidly growing gulf between Mexico and Washington.
Steve
PS Just a thought. The contempt the US forces, or at least Armstrong, has for the black militia. Is that because the force [or possibly him] is primarily from the southern US or an indication of the generally held view in the US?
Well, it is a Canada-wank, after all.
Other than that - yeah, I think Louisiana is going to be relieved for the moment. Particularly the lower end, i.e. New Orleans and the like. Yet I can't help but thinking that it's only a temporary lull and the Americans will try again to attack New Orleans, even with the South being vulnerable, as you've inferred. That's because the lower end of Louisiana (OTL modern State of Louisiana) - or at least the core areas - is pretty vulnerable in any case. All it takes is a large flood coming from downstream and Louisiana would be in a big mess, which the Americans would take as an opportunity to strike (as people would be preöccupied with the clean-up).
Having said that, I think the stage would now theoretically be set for the British to take over West Florida.
I agree - if Britain and Mexico have made a separate peace (i.e. a secret peace treaty), then it would be easy for the politicians to ask for a change in stance.
Assuming perfect efficiency of distribution. In reality I suspect the quartermasters and senior officers will be eating prime steak while the guys at the bottom of the heap are struggling to make soup out of shins and tails. Which will not be good for morale or help in keeping them under control when they're looting of course.
Also, what are the native tribes doing? I'm not sure of the precise distribution, but I would have thought the Comanche in particular would have some fun with stragglers, etc...
Certainly the distribution of the cuts will be inequitable. The Mexicans are going to accept that that's just life, at least they're getting meat! Even the American common troopers are likely to understand that the officers get the steaks.
Actually, after a couple of weeks of eating little but meat, the troops may be more upset at the officers getting the only bread - when that one wagon supply train arrives!
ATM, they're mostly keeping out of the way of the armies. Groups of multiple thousand well armed men are NOT anything they want to tangle with. Still, once Gonzales gets his small garrisons set up across the state, supply missions could get interesting - and a small garrison, even behind a palisade, could fall to determined attack, whether by Texian irregulars or Comanche.
Actually, where the Indians could be most 'effective' is attacking the remaining Texians. The Mexicans will have largely disarmed the civilians, and the menfolk may be lacking (gone off to join the irregulars, conscripted by Gonzales' army, killed in the fighting)... If that happens (especially if one nation is particularly responsible), it's not going to bode well for that nation after Tejas is restored.
But the temptation, to sneak in and strike at BOTH sides and drive whiteman out must be enormous....
But we haven't gotten to that point. I'll try to make sure they get written in.
Given how long the wire would have to be to reach British lines, there would be too big a risk of it being cut (not least by a horse's hoof from all that cavalry trampling around) I would have thought. A volunteer hiding in the mud would be much your best bet. Let him light a 30 second fuse, dive in the river and swim south, and with all the confusion caused by the explosion he should have at least a faint hope of living long enough for the frigate to pick him up...
Ah... no, not British lines. 100' - 100yds down the river bank in a blind. Colt also invented a way to waterproof the wires.
But, yes, a guy clinging to the underside of the bridge or something, lighting a fuse and jumping off might work. If it's a pontoon bridge, he could be hiding in one of the boats, if necessary.
Sounds like something a local might be willing and able to do. I don't know how deep the water is in the Sabine, but a local would know the river currents, and he might be used to wading out there up to his neck to "noodle" catfish. All you'd need is a dry place to keep the matches.
Atlantic theatre, part 1
Atlantic theatre, part 1
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]RNE/Maritime preparations[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]John Ericsson is in engineer's heaven. While he was initially afraid that his 'exile' across the Atlantic might have been a step down, he finds that the naval people in New England and the Maritimes are far more worried about the US, and thus far more interested in advances he has to offer. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The first thing they do is convert several warships of various sizes to steam power (in addition to their sails), but then they sit down and talk about more interesting options. The US built the Fulton/ Demologus for the last war (although it wasn't completed in time) and are building more of the same. The first thought is that a ship of that type with screw propulsion would be far more efficient than the original paddlewheeler. Then someone else points out that the RN has had a counter measure for some time (namely red-hot shot), which the US will be able to come up with too. So, why don't they they armour the ship with iron instead of wood? Moreover, if they use screw propulsion, they don't have to build a whole new semi-catamaran ship type (as is the case for the Demologus), but can just use regular ships, and use their current skills.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Trying to figure out just how to balance the weight of the armour with other considerations takes some engineering work, but Ericsson is a master and he is training apprentices, and working with skilled shipwrights. It is also clear that the extra weight of the armour will seriously affect things like range and sea-handling abilities. So hybrid frigates (with both sails and engines, but with much lighter armour) are also produced to be able to range further away from base.[1][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So it is decided, the various ship yards in New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and New England will build new steam frigates (some for completion as hybrids, some for completion as ironclads), and in the meantime, a couple of the existing ones will head to Sydney to experiment with armour.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The quickest thing to do is to razee existing ships – cutting off the top deck and putting armour on. This is what they do with the first ships (Thor class). (This is very like the CSS Virginia - more commonly known as the Merrimack[2]). Another option is to keep the existing decks, waterproof the first gun deck, and heavily ballast the keel. This version would, however have a huge draft, and not at all be useful for close in shore work. Other options include some sort of catamaran structure to provide extra width and hence stability for the top-heavy armoured ships. However, given the great draft of the second option, and the novelty of the third one, it is decided to go with the first option for now. The ship yards in the north-east are very skilled at putting together that kind of ship, and it makes sense to start with what you know.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Later ships in the Thor class are built without the top deck (pre-razee as it were), just the armour, but it takes a while to build a new ship from the keel up. Several are expected to be completed by the spring and summer of '43.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Because the US Demologus class ships are not very vulnerable to shells, each of the RNE and Maritime Coastal Defence ships carries regular cannon and the ability to fire heated shot – and, since they already have a steam engine on board, they don't even need a separate shot furnace.[3][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The first experimental ships engage in trials for most of 1841, trying out sea-handling, different mounting of armour, ballasting, etc. By then they have a good idea what they want these ships to do, and the first ships built from the keel up for armour are ready to be completed.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Once the Thor-class ships are well defined, and don't need much further (design) attention, Ericsson turns his mind to other classes of ships. The next item on the agenda is rather more lightly armoured, more standard looking ships (think something like a junior version of OTL's La Gloire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_battleship_La_Gloire).[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Start of the war[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Since the Allies expected the war to wait until spring (of '43), the armoured ships were in harbour in Nova Scotia – or even Newfoundland, partly for exercising their crews and partly to keep them out of sight of US forces. The NE Secretary of the Navy ordered naval vessels to prepare themselves, but to not put to sea or engage in aggressive action. He also asked RN and the British Coastal Defence Command[4] to stay out of NE waters for the moment. He wanted to avoid 'provoking' the US and hoped for a diplomatic solution to the crisis. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]On the 16th of December, after the dozens of raids along the Connecticut coast by raiders from Long Island the day before, the NEW Secretary of the Navy unleashed the might of the RNE navy, and invited the RN to make full use of New England waters, yards, provisioning and harbours.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]On the 15th, the US rampaged unopposed. On the 16th and 17th the US armed merchant men and smaller warships were cleared from Long Island Sound by the better armed and manned and (sometimes) armoured NE ships. By the 18th, the only US ships still contesting the waters are the USS United States (the pre-War of 1812 superfrigate), and the Demosthenes and the Pericles (the first two of the new Demologos class timberclads). None of the New Englander ships immediately available were quite as strongly built, and these three ships briefly ruled the Sound. Two smaller New Englander frigates, the Concord and the Trilby managed to close with the United States, and while the USS US was sinking the Concord with shells, the Trilby got behind and used her own guns to shell the US ship, doing fatal damage before she managed to bring her guns to bear on the Trilby. Score 2-1 for the US, but, as foreseen, naval battles between wooden ships armed with Paixhans guns was like duelling with shotguns, with all three ships lost.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The next morning the ironclads arrived, and the situation changed again. On the 19th, the Pericles had to return to harbour to deal with engine problems, which left the Demosthenes alone. The RNES Thor and the USS Demosthenes engaged, and poured shell and shot at each other, mercilessly pounding each other's armour. However, as predicted, the heated shot of the Thor set the the Demosthenes on fire, and destroyed her as she tried to return to base. Meanwhile, the RNES Zeus[5] and Brontes and CMCS (later HMS) Taranis rampage up and down the New York coast, wiping out US shipping both at sea and in harbour.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]That night, the Pericles, having fixed her engine problems, slipped out of port and headed south to Philadelphia. There, American naval engineers work on adding a layer of iron plate onto her, as clearly a pure timberclad can't stand toe-to-toe with the ironclads. So for now, the US east coast is almost defenceless against the Allies. Areas protected by coastal defence batteries are attacked by the Allied ironclads, as the iron armour is strong enough to endure heavy pounding (for a while). While undefended cities/ports can be and are shelled by the unarmoured arm of the Allied navies. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]On Christmas Day, the bombardment stops, and a sloop is sent to New York under flag of truce. The Allies propose that any (surviving) ships that wish to flee will be given 3 days. Any ship taking the offer will be interned in New England ports until the end of hostilities, and then returned to the owners. Crew are to be allowed to return to New York (or join the Allies). Some ships do take up the offer, but rather more retreat into the Hudson, hoping the protection of the harbour batteries will keep them safe.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]On the 29th, the Allies descend in force. The Zeus and the Thor steam into New York harbour to kill the assembled shipping, commercial as well as military, and to destroy the warehouses and dockyards. During this process, the Lycurgus (an almost complete timberclad) is destroyed on the stocks before she even has a chance to take part in the war. This expedition did not leave the ironclads unharmed. Although they survived the bombardment from the harbour guns, they were damaged, and had to return to New London for repairs. Meanwhile, the Brontes and Tarannis attack Brooklyn, Staten Island, the Bronx[6], and other areas around the basin, and the less armoured ships wreak havoc on other ports in the area.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The coastal batteries defend the New York city area well enough that no unarmoured Allied ship dares brave those waters. The partly armoured steam frigates can scoot through, or even attack vessels (the coast guns don't want to hit their own shipping), but they don't dare stop and shell land targets.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]What the Allies really want to do is to a) block the entrances to the New York area (entrance to the East River) and Verrazano Narrows, b) smash the shipping, warehouses, yards, (and any part of the cities that are within cannon shot of the water), c) interdict all shipping, d) take the attack UP the Hudson, and e) expand their operation down the coast.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]With the Taranis and Brontes being the only full ironclads available for now, they have a couple of the semi-armoured steam frigates take on a), while the ironclads do b&c. Tasks d&e have to wait. Moreover, with only 2 ironclad available, they don't dare stay too very long under the guns of the harbour batteries. So they can dash in, shell the harbour, get pounded a handful of times, and leave, but they don't dare stay and do a fuller job.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Interdiction of traffic to Brooklyn is started, and somewhat effective. But all they US has to do is slip small boats across when the ironclads are elsewhere, or do it at night (when the Allies aren't patrolling). Staten Island and Manhattan are separated from the mainland by such narrow and shallow channels that the ironclads can't even go through them, so they are fine. Brooklyn, however, starts feeling the pinch. While agricultural produce is available from the rest of Long Island, anything that has to be brought over from the mainland starts getting rather expensive. And even food has to be carried in wagons rather than moved by boat. Moreover, the damage caused by exploding shells and the fires started by them rather damage the city. Many civilians flee at night to safer locales.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]In the second week of January, Zeus resumes patrol. (The Thor was more heavily damaged, and the Allies want to experiment with her - see if they can replace some of the wooden supports with iron beams to strengthen the armour.) With three ironclads, the interdiction of the deeper waters around New York City tightens. Also, the first RN ships from England arrive to help with the coastal blockade, which allows blockade and devastation to spread south along the coast. But before a complete blockade can be put in place, several US commerce raiders slip out of ports from Philadelphia to Charleston. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The initial battles tell both sides some interesting things. The fully armoured Thor class are, at the moment, unbeatable by anything except sustained pounding by shore batteries. The steam frigates with add on armour are effective against all but the largest guns, and wooden hulled ships are obsolete. Another thing that the Allies learned was that ships like the Thor with 20' draft were simply too deep for some of the channels around New York City, and were definitely not suitable for e.g. expeditions up rivers. Also, with the new vessels, small cannon aren't very useful, and it's a bit of a race to up-gun vessels. As the US currently only has one size of shell gun (the 8” Paixhans), for her that means up-gunning the standard cannon, and instituting a crash program to produce larger Paixhans guns. (It will be some months before they succeed in producing larger Paixhans, and more months after that before they can appear in any numbers.) For the British, it means increasing the production of the larger guns and redesignating the smaller one for different use. (The original 8” guns supplied to the Thor class are replaced by larger ones, and the 8”ers sent to Louisiana for riverboats (which had been using rather smaller guns).)[7][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The results of the battles are somewhat of a shock to the RN. They had let the Coastal Defence Command play with brown-water mobile batteries (as they thought of them), and are now, slowly, starting to realize that 1 month ago they had the world's largest navy of warships – and now they are all obsolete. Naval architects start working with Ericsson's blueprints, and trying to figure out how to design new ships that will be global in reach, fully seaworthy and sufficiently protected. In the meantime, they retrofit some plate onto current Ships of the Line and send them across the Atlantic – no point husbanding wooden hulled ships that are suddenly obsolete anyway.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Ericsson gets to work designing a new class of vessel that will have much shallower draft. The first version is based on riverboats, with a flat bottom and shallow(ish) draft. However, even these boats will be far too large to fit through the CanalSystem, so copies of Ericsson's designs are made and shipped to Kingston, Detroit, Chicago, and Burlington so that existing ships there may be cut down and converted to ironclads. Drafts of his riverboat-based designs are also sent to St. Louis and New Orleans for production of new casemate riverboats there. (Although river boat builders have to adapt them considerably – screw propulsion may be more efficient than paddlewheels, but on the Mississippi with sandbars, snags, etc., they are also much easier to damage.) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The US top priority is now armouring the Pericles with iron (done by mid January), and completing the other Orator class ships under construction with that same plate - the Cato (at Norfolk VA), the Stentor (in Charleston) and the Cicero (in Oswego on Lake Ontario). These are the ships furthest along in construction. But sister ships that are just laid down are abandoned, and work started on new, proper ironclads. But with the cut off of iron shipments from Britain, the US iron industry really, really feels the strain. Not only are they having to (design and) produce new Paixhans guns for all the ships and forts AND produce iron plate for the ironclads, AND rail (more on that later), they also have to produce the iron for shovels and knives and nails and everything else that contains iron, as much of that had been imported from Britain.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Work on Allied ships in New England and the Maritimes is expedited massively, especially since they are the only effective warships Britain currently owns (by some measures). The launch of the Jehovah is moved forward to mid January, the Jupiter to mid-February, Perkunos to March, Indra to April. The landlocked ironclads are Vulcan (at Kingston), the Hephaestos (Burlington), the Goibniu (Chicago) and the Svarog (Detroit). All of which are hoped to be converted by spring breakup.[/FONT]
–
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]1 actually, the RN has started converting some of their ships to handle steam as at least auxiliary power, and so they will actually provide most of the heavy lifting in the 'long range/unarmoured' department. As it happens, the RN is rather further along the road to conversion to steam than I had realized, even OTL – there were several hybrid steam-assisted frigates, some steam powered gunboats, and even an iron hulled steam gunboat involved in OTL's First Opium War. Here, they make a quicker conversion to screws. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2 The Virginia/Merrimack was a US steam frigate that had been burned to the waterline (so made a razee by the fire), which was rebuilt as an armoured ship, with fixed cannon in broadsides in a casemate, as opposed to the Monitor (the 'cheesebox on a raft'). [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]3 OTL the RN had figured out a counter to the timberclads, not that any ever went to war against the RN. Here, that same solution is found - and is put to use. Red hot heated shot should be effective against a timberclad, quite possibly by lodging in the wooden 'armour' and setting it afire.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]4 Coastal Defence Command is what you might think of as a BNA/Maritimes navy. Nova Scotia and New Brunswick wanted to work with New England on the new ships, and while the RN wasn't worried about the US threat, they were. The RN wasn't entirely sure it liked the idea of ironclads, so it let the [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]'colonial coastguard' play with them. The patronage of the Prince Consort got them some RN money, though.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]5 Thor was the first, experimental, rebuilt ironclad. The Taranis was the second. The Zeus and Brontes are the first 'from the keel up' ironclads.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]6 Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island (=Richmond) and the Bronx weren't part of New York City until 1898. [No, I didn't know that either.][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]7 8” is approximately 20cm, for those who care.[/FONT]
Atlantic theatre, part 1
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]RNE/Maritime preparations[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]John Ericsson is in engineer's heaven. While he was initially afraid that his 'exile' across the Atlantic might have been a step down, he finds that the naval people in New England and the Maritimes are far more worried about the US, and thus far more interested in advances he has to offer. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The first thing they do is convert several warships of various sizes to steam power (in addition to their sails), but then they sit down and talk about more interesting options. The US built the Fulton/ Demologus for the last war (although it wasn't completed in time) and are building more of the same. The first thought is that a ship of that type with screw propulsion would be far more efficient than the original paddlewheeler. Then someone else points out that the RN has had a counter measure for some time (namely red-hot shot), which the US will be able to come up with too. So, why don't they they armour the ship with iron instead of wood? Moreover, if they use screw propulsion, they don't have to build a whole new semi-catamaran ship type (as is the case for the Demologus), but can just use regular ships, and use their current skills.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Trying to figure out just how to balance the weight of the armour with other considerations takes some engineering work, but Ericsson is a master and he is training apprentices, and working with skilled shipwrights. It is also clear that the extra weight of the armour will seriously affect things like range and sea-handling abilities. So hybrid frigates (with both sails and engines, but with much lighter armour) are also produced to be able to range further away from base.[1][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So it is decided, the various ship yards in New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and New England will build new steam frigates (some for completion as hybrids, some for completion as ironclads), and in the meantime, a couple of the existing ones will head to Sydney to experiment with armour.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The quickest thing to do is to razee existing ships – cutting off the top deck and putting armour on. This is what they do with the first ships (Thor class). (This is very like the CSS Virginia - more commonly known as the Merrimack[2]). Another option is to keep the existing decks, waterproof the first gun deck, and heavily ballast the keel. This version would, however have a huge draft, and not at all be useful for close in shore work. Other options include some sort of catamaran structure to provide extra width and hence stability for the top-heavy armoured ships. However, given the great draft of the second option, and the novelty of the third one, it is decided to go with the first option for now. The ship yards in the north-east are very skilled at putting together that kind of ship, and it makes sense to start with what you know.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Later ships in the Thor class are built without the top deck (pre-razee as it were), just the armour, but it takes a while to build a new ship from the keel up. Several are expected to be completed by the spring and summer of '43.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Because the US Demologus class ships are not very vulnerable to shells, each of the RNE and Maritime Coastal Defence ships carries regular cannon and the ability to fire heated shot – and, since they already have a steam engine on board, they don't even need a separate shot furnace.[3][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The first experimental ships engage in trials for most of 1841, trying out sea-handling, different mounting of armour, ballasting, etc. By then they have a good idea what they want these ships to do, and the first ships built from the keel up for armour are ready to be completed.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Once the Thor-class ships are well defined, and don't need much further (design) attention, Ericsson turns his mind to other classes of ships. The next item on the agenda is rather more lightly armoured, more standard looking ships (think something like a junior version of OTL's La Gloire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_battleship_La_Gloire).[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Start of the war[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Since the Allies expected the war to wait until spring (of '43), the armoured ships were in harbour in Nova Scotia – or even Newfoundland, partly for exercising their crews and partly to keep them out of sight of US forces. The NE Secretary of the Navy ordered naval vessels to prepare themselves, but to not put to sea or engage in aggressive action. He also asked RN and the British Coastal Defence Command[4] to stay out of NE waters for the moment. He wanted to avoid 'provoking' the US and hoped for a diplomatic solution to the crisis. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]On the 16th of December, after the dozens of raids along the Connecticut coast by raiders from Long Island the day before, the NEW Secretary of the Navy unleashed the might of the RNE navy, and invited the RN to make full use of New England waters, yards, provisioning and harbours.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]On the 15th, the US rampaged unopposed. On the 16th and 17th the US armed merchant men and smaller warships were cleared from Long Island Sound by the better armed and manned and (sometimes) armoured NE ships. By the 18th, the only US ships still contesting the waters are the USS United States (the pre-War of 1812 superfrigate), and the Demosthenes and the Pericles (the first two of the new Demologos class timberclads). None of the New Englander ships immediately available were quite as strongly built, and these three ships briefly ruled the Sound. Two smaller New Englander frigates, the Concord and the Trilby managed to close with the United States, and while the USS US was sinking the Concord with shells, the Trilby got behind and used her own guns to shell the US ship, doing fatal damage before she managed to bring her guns to bear on the Trilby. Score 2-1 for the US, but, as foreseen, naval battles between wooden ships armed with Paixhans guns was like duelling with shotguns, with all three ships lost.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The next morning the ironclads arrived, and the situation changed again. On the 19th, the Pericles had to return to harbour to deal with engine problems, which left the Demosthenes alone. The RNES Thor and the USS Demosthenes engaged, and poured shell and shot at each other, mercilessly pounding each other's armour. However, as predicted, the heated shot of the Thor set the the Demosthenes on fire, and destroyed her as she tried to return to base. Meanwhile, the RNES Zeus[5] and Brontes and CMCS (later HMS) Taranis rampage up and down the New York coast, wiping out US shipping both at sea and in harbour.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]That night, the Pericles, having fixed her engine problems, slipped out of port and headed south to Philadelphia. There, American naval engineers work on adding a layer of iron plate onto her, as clearly a pure timberclad can't stand toe-to-toe with the ironclads. So for now, the US east coast is almost defenceless against the Allies. Areas protected by coastal defence batteries are attacked by the Allied ironclads, as the iron armour is strong enough to endure heavy pounding (for a while). While undefended cities/ports can be and are shelled by the unarmoured arm of the Allied navies. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]On Christmas Day, the bombardment stops, and a sloop is sent to New York under flag of truce. The Allies propose that any (surviving) ships that wish to flee will be given 3 days. Any ship taking the offer will be interned in New England ports until the end of hostilities, and then returned to the owners. Crew are to be allowed to return to New York (or join the Allies). Some ships do take up the offer, but rather more retreat into the Hudson, hoping the protection of the harbour batteries will keep them safe.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]On the 29th, the Allies descend in force. The Zeus and the Thor steam into New York harbour to kill the assembled shipping, commercial as well as military, and to destroy the warehouses and dockyards. During this process, the Lycurgus (an almost complete timberclad) is destroyed on the stocks before she even has a chance to take part in the war. This expedition did not leave the ironclads unharmed. Although they survived the bombardment from the harbour guns, they were damaged, and had to return to New London for repairs. Meanwhile, the Brontes and Tarannis attack Brooklyn, Staten Island, the Bronx[6], and other areas around the basin, and the less armoured ships wreak havoc on other ports in the area.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The coastal batteries defend the New York city area well enough that no unarmoured Allied ship dares brave those waters. The partly armoured steam frigates can scoot through, or even attack vessels (the coast guns don't want to hit their own shipping), but they don't dare stop and shell land targets.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]What the Allies really want to do is to a) block the entrances to the New York area (entrance to the East River) and Verrazano Narrows, b) smash the shipping, warehouses, yards, (and any part of the cities that are within cannon shot of the water), c) interdict all shipping, d) take the attack UP the Hudson, and e) expand their operation down the coast.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]With the Taranis and Brontes being the only full ironclads available for now, they have a couple of the semi-armoured steam frigates take on a), while the ironclads do b&c. Tasks d&e have to wait. Moreover, with only 2 ironclad available, they don't dare stay too very long under the guns of the harbour batteries. So they can dash in, shell the harbour, get pounded a handful of times, and leave, but they don't dare stay and do a fuller job.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Interdiction of traffic to Brooklyn is started, and somewhat effective. But all they US has to do is slip small boats across when the ironclads are elsewhere, or do it at night (when the Allies aren't patrolling). Staten Island and Manhattan are separated from the mainland by such narrow and shallow channels that the ironclads can't even go through them, so they are fine. Brooklyn, however, starts feeling the pinch. While agricultural produce is available from the rest of Long Island, anything that has to be brought over from the mainland starts getting rather expensive. And even food has to be carried in wagons rather than moved by boat. Moreover, the damage caused by exploding shells and the fires started by them rather damage the city. Many civilians flee at night to safer locales.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]In the second week of January, Zeus resumes patrol. (The Thor was more heavily damaged, and the Allies want to experiment with her - see if they can replace some of the wooden supports with iron beams to strengthen the armour.) With three ironclads, the interdiction of the deeper waters around New York City tightens. Also, the first RN ships from England arrive to help with the coastal blockade, which allows blockade and devastation to spread south along the coast. But before a complete blockade can be put in place, several US commerce raiders slip out of ports from Philadelphia to Charleston. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The initial battles tell both sides some interesting things. The fully armoured Thor class are, at the moment, unbeatable by anything except sustained pounding by shore batteries. The steam frigates with add on armour are effective against all but the largest guns, and wooden hulled ships are obsolete. Another thing that the Allies learned was that ships like the Thor with 20' draft were simply too deep for some of the channels around New York City, and were definitely not suitable for e.g. expeditions up rivers. Also, with the new vessels, small cannon aren't very useful, and it's a bit of a race to up-gun vessels. As the US currently only has one size of shell gun (the 8” Paixhans), for her that means up-gunning the standard cannon, and instituting a crash program to produce larger Paixhans guns. (It will be some months before they succeed in producing larger Paixhans, and more months after that before they can appear in any numbers.) For the British, it means increasing the production of the larger guns and redesignating the smaller one for different use. (The original 8” guns supplied to the Thor class are replaced by larger ones, and the 8”ers sent to Louisiana for riverboats (which had been using rather smaller guns).)[7][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The results of the battles are somewhat of a shock to the RN. They had let the Coastal Defence Command play with brown-water mobile batteries (as they thought of them), and are now, slowly, starting to realize that 1 month ago they had the world's largest navy of warships – and now they are all obsolete. Naval architects start working with Ericsson's blueprints, and trying to figure out how to design new ships that will be global in reach, fully seaworthy and sufficiently protected. In the meantime, they retrofit some plate onto current Ships of the Line and send them across the Atlantic – no point husbanding wooden hulled ships that are suddenly obsolete anyway.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Ericsson gets to work designing a new class of vessel that will have much shallower draft. The first version is based on riverboats, with a flat bottom and shallow(ish) draft. However, even these boats will be far too large to fit through the CanalSystem, so copies of Ericsson's designs are made and shipped to Kingston, Detroit, Chicago, and Burlington so that existing ships there may be cut down and converted to ironclads. Drafts of his riverboat-based designs are also sent to St. Louis and New Orleans for production of new casemate riverboats there. (Although river boat builders have to adapt them considerably – screw propulsion may be more efficient than paddlewheels, but on the Mississippi with sandbars, snags, etc., they are also much easier to damage.) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The US top priority is now armouring the Pericles with iron (done by mid January), and completing the other Orator class ships under construction with that same plate - the Cato (at Norfolk VA), the Stentor (in Charleston) and the Cicero (in Oswego on Lake Ontario). These are the ships furthest along in construction. But sister ships that are just laid down are abandoned, and work started on new, proper ironclads. But with the cut off of iron shipments from Britain, the US iron industry really, really feels the strain. Not only are they having to (design and) produce new Paixhans guns for all the ships and forts AND produce iron plate for the ironclads, AND rail (more on that later), they also have to produce the iron for shovels and knives and nails and everything else that contains iron, as much of that had been imported from Britain.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Work on Allied ships in New England and the Maritimes is expedited massively, especially since they are the only effective warships Britain currently owns (by some measures). The launch of the Jehovah is moved forward to mid January, the Jupiter to mid-February, Perkunos to March, Indra to April. The landlocked ironclads are Vulcan (at Kingston), the Hephaestos (Burlington), the Goibniu (Chicago) and the Svarog (Detroit). All of which are hoped to be converted by spring breakup.[/FONT]
–
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]1 actually, the RN has started converting some of their ships to handle steam as at least auxiliary power, and so they will actually provide most of the heavy lifting in the 'long range/unarmoured' department. As it happens, the RN is rather further along the road to conversion to steam than I had realized, even OTL – there were several hybrid steam-assisted frigates, some steam powered gunboats, and even an iron hulled steam gunboat involved in OTL's First Opium War. Here, they make a quicker conversion to screws. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2 The Virginia/Merrimack was a US steam frigate that had been burned to the waterline (so made a razee by the fire), which was rebuilt as an armoured ship, with fixed cannon in broadsides in a casemate, as opposed to the Monitor (the 'cheesebox on a raft'). [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]3 OTL the RN had figured out a counter to the timberclads, not that any ever went to war against the RN. Here, that same solution is found - and is put to use. Red hot heated shot should be effective against a timberclad, quite possibly by lodging in the wooden 'armour' and setting it afire.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]4 Coastal Defence Command is what you might think of as a BNA/Maritimes navy. Nova Scotia and New Brunswick wanted to work with New England on the new ships, and while the RN wasn't worried about the US threat, they were. The RN wasn't entirely sure it liked the idea of ironclads, so it let the [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]'colonial coastguard' play with them. The patronage of the Prince Consort got them some RN money, though.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]5 Thor was the first, experimental, rebuilt ironclad. The Taranis was the second. The Zeus and Brontes are the first 'from the keel up' ironclads.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]6 Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island (=Richmond) and the Bronx weren't part of New York City until 1898. [No, I didn't know that either.][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]7 8” is approximately 20cm, for those who care.[/FONT]
Dathi
Fascinating. Very costly for the US as its trade and coastal cities are going to get pounded. Even worse I think Britain OTL [or shortly after] had a metal shot with a molten core which would really do damage, both to any wooden ships and possibly in coastal bombardments.
Hadn't realised how much the RN had been caught napping by its own allies. Going to be some big naval programmes very quickly to restore supremacy. [Both for pride and national need].
Was this bit a typo or an indication of someone losing their job? "[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]NEW Secretary of the Navy"
Steve
[/FONT]
Fascinating. Very costly for the US as its trade and coastal cities are going to get pounded. Even worse I think Britain OTL [or shortly after] had a metal shot with a molten core which would really do damage, both to any wooden ships and possibly in coastal bombardments.
Hadn't realised how much the RN had been caught napping by its own allies.
Going to be some big naval programmes very quickly to restore supremacy. [Both for pride and national need].Was this bit a typo or an indication of someone losing their job? "[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]NEW Secretary of the Navy"
Steve
[/FONT]
Ummm... The old one told the RN to stay out of NE waters, and the NE navy to stand down.Was this bit a typo or an indication of someone losing their job? "[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]NEW Secretary of the Navy"
Steve
[/FONT]
Oh, ja, we could say 'new'. The old guy is lucky if 'treason' isn't being seriously considered.... It's certainly being shouted.
Dathi
That is probably being a bit harsh on him as no one was expecting war at that point and inviting the RN in would have have been provocative. Especially since elements in NE were still hoping to keep out of any war totally. However can see such a reaction being likely given the shock of the attacks and the amount of damage done.
Steve
No, of course not. Not ALL of it....BTW, Dathi, are you really trying to build up a case for New England to gain Long Island?
No, of course not. Not ALL of it....
**laughing out loud**
Of course you'd say that.
**laughing out loud**
Of course you'd say that.
Seriously guys, it only makes sense it stays with NY when that's transferred.
I can see from the NE point of view that transferring much of it would safeguard their coastline and shipping in the region against future attacks, especially as weapons improve in performance.
Steve
Seriously guys, it only makes sense it stays with NY when that's transferred.
Not necessarily.
Now you're thinking what I was thinking when I brought up the Connecticut Colony's old claims way back when.
General guerilla warfare
General guerilla warfare
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Everywhere the US invaded (and even in parts of their own territory, but that will be discussed later), they suffered from guerilla warfare. Whether it be in Florida, Illinois, Tejas or Louisiana, locals who knew the territory would pick off stragglers who fell behind any army movements, supply trains (if any) had to be conducted as convoys, escorted by sizeable numbers of armed troops, or else the supply wagons would be hit, the wagoneers killed, and the supplies stolen/destroyed. This, of course, eats up the available man power for offensive operations, if sizeable chunks of your armed forces are used up just defending your supply lines.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]In addition to that, even large bodies of troops will be nibbled at. Sentries, by their very nature, are isolated. The US quickly (re)learned that putting a single sentry out was murder. Even putting 2 out didn't solve the problem, as then they might start talking and miss hostiles creeping through the lines. As with the War of 1812, crossbows and regular bows are discovered to be exceedingly effective anti-sentry tools, as a sentry can be killed silently and from a distance. Even when convoys are attacked, an arrow speeding in and killing someone only gives a vague sense of where it came from – unlike a gunshot, where the muzzle blast is likely quite visible, and the bang of the gun is very audible.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Of course, since the 'hostiles' were often Indians with better woodcraft than 95% of the US troops (even the ones who adopted white-man's ways in large part still hunt – and they have a LONG tradition to learn from there), the locals can often slip through the sentry lines even with fully alert sentries. Soldiers killed in their sleep well inside the sentry lines didn't happen very often, but when it did, it was very damaging to US morale. Moreover, sometimes the men who slipped through the lines carried fused bombs (often slow match/fuse, but more and more clockwork). These bombs, if placed in the right place, especially an ammunition dump/wagon or liquor stores, create huge havoc when they go off. Since the intruder can often escape before the bomb goes off, he can even repeat it later.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So the US has to redouble the number of sentry posts and that means even more men are tired the next day.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Jumpy sentries call false alarms, which rouse troops to no purpose, and wear them down. 10 minutes of a fire-fight that turns out to have been caused by a rabbit or a deer adds stress and strain to the US soldiers. It also uses up ammo. The very worst strain is when a sentry calls an alarm, the camp is roused, nothing is found – and it's discovered later that there WAS an intruder (possibly when the ammunition wagon blows up).[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]On supply convoys, when the intruders kill the draft animals, that not only creates havoc, but slows the whole train down, or even requires that some of the supplies be left behind. Slower convoys means more opportunity for attack, and that, too, adds to the stress.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]US morale erodes slowly. Every soldier knows that he could die tomorrow – and not a 'heroic' death in line of battle, but because he stumbles and falls behind his buddies on march, when out wooding, or using the latrine, or standing guard, or even sound asleep at night in a re-supply convoy.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Every day, they live with vague premonitions of disaster – what will happen to us next? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Still, the actual damage done by the Allies is fairly small (at least initially) and US morale starts high – they do believe they are fighting for a righteous cause. [/FONT]
General guerilla warfare
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Everywhere the US invaded (and even in parts of their own territory, but that will be discussed later), they suffered from guerilla warfare. Whether it be in Florida, Illinois, Tejas or Louisiana, locals who knew the territory would pick off stragglers who fell behind any army movements, supply trains (if any) had to be conducted as convoys, escorted by sizeable numbers of armed troops, or else the supply wagons would be hit, the wagoneers killed, and the supplies stolen/destroyed. This, of course, eats up the available man power for offensive operations, if sizeable chunks of your armed forces are used up just defending your supply lines.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]In addition to that, even large bodies of troops will be nibbled at. Sentries, by their very nature, are isolated. The US quickly (re)learned that putting a single sentry out was murder. Even putting 2 out didn't solve the problem, as then they might start talking and miss hostiles creeping through the lines. As with the War of 1812, crossbows and regular bows are discovered to be exceedingly effective anti-sentry tools, as a sentry can be killed silently and from a distance. Even when convoys are attacked, an arrow speeding in and killing someone only gives a vague sense of where it came from – unlike a gunshot, where the muzzle blast is likely quite visible, and the bang of the gun is very audible.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Of course, since the 'hostiles' were often Indians with better woodcraft than 95% of the US troops (even the ones who adopted white-man's ways in large part still hunt – and they have a LONG tradition to learn from there), the locals can often slip through the sentry lines even with fully alert sentries. Soldiers killed in their sleep well inside the sentry lines didn't happen very often, but when it did, it was very damaging to US morale. Moreover, sometimes the men who slipped through the lines carried fused bombs (often slow match/fuse, but more and more clockwork). These bombs, if placed in the right place, especially an ammunition dump/wagon or liquor stores, create huge havoc when they go off. Since the intruder can often escape before the bomb goes off, he can even repeat it later.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So the US has to redouble the number of sentry posts and that means even more men are tired the next day.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Jumpy sentries call false alarms, which rouse troops to no purpose, and wear them down. 10 minutes of a fire-fight that turns out to have been caused by a rabbit or a deer adds stress and strain to the US soldiers. It also uses up ammo. The very worst strain is when a sentry calls an alarm, the camp is roused, nothing is found – and it's discovered later that there WAS an intruder (possibly when the ammunition wagon blows up).[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]On supply convoys, when the intruders kill the draft animals, that not only creates havoc, but slows the whole train down, or even requires that some of the supplies be left behind. Slower convoys means more opportunity for attack, and that, too, adds to the stress.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]US morale erodes slowly. Every soldier knows that he could die tomorrow – and not a 'heroic' death in line of battle, but because he stumbles and falls behind his buddies on march, when out wooding, or using the latrine, or standing guard, or even sound asleep at night in a re-supply convoy.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Every day, they live with vague premonitions of disaster – what will happen to us next? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Still, the actual damage done by the Allies is fairly small (at least initially) and US morale starts high – they do believe they are fighting for a righteous cause. [/FONT]
- Status