Map Thread VI

[Tyr]

Another map which was supposed to be more but sort of didn't work out.
WW1 ends a bit differently and the siuation is changed. Note the borders are OTL modern ones and the colours are all that matters:

Luxembourg- Gains some small bits of Germany, mostly countryside and minor towns like Nittel.
Switzerland- Gets that bit of west Austria joining it post vote
Sweden- There is a referendum in Åland where they chose to join Sweden rather than the new Finland.
Hungary- Isn't punished quite so much with the ethnic hungarian areas of Slovakia, Croatia and Serbia staying with Hungary. After a referendum the Habsburgs are allowed to stay in power too albeit with effectivly no powers- sort of like the UK system.
Austria- Is also given a vote on whether to keep the monarchy or not. The choices in both Hungary and Austria were republic, personal union or independant monarchies. Luckily Austria went Republican which saved the bother of who would get the 'real' emperor.
Turkey- Punished more succesfully. Less of an attempt to carve it up from the Europeans but a lot of support given to local competing powers on the ground. The Kurds are granted a state and Armenia some sea access (albeit no decent port yet)
Bulgaria- Punished slightly less, keeps some of Macedonia
Yugoslavia- Isn't created. Instead you get a United Kingdom of Croatia-Serbia. Montenegro thinKs better of becoming second full in a south slav union. Slovenia in the meanwhile is established as a independant state with some rented sea access rights for Austria and Hungary.
Germany- Bavaria follows more of a independance first, socialism second policy and maintains its independance. Germany Keeps roughly similar eastern borders though some German majority areas remain German. East Prussia meanwhile after a vote is allowed to be the Kingdom of Prussia under the old Kaiser. Danzig is Kept part of Prussia though Poland are given major rights here until they can establish a new port of their own in Kashubia.
Finland- No guns in range of st.petes but otherwise big gains due to....
Russia- Containment of the soviets is followed rather than fighting futily to totally stop them. Edge groups of whites are supported. Finland maKes gains in the north, Ruthenia is established out of partial Russian lands and partial Hungarian ones, a white Republic is also heavily bacKed up around Crimea. Suggestions of establishing the Tsar safely in a rump around St.Petes however do not prove popular with the Finns and the Tsar himself who doesn't want to become a puppet King and wants the whole of Russia. Nonetheless the Tsar has survived and the soviets looK very unsteady.

 

[ImperialVienna]

Another map which was supposed to be more but sort of didn't work out.
WW1 ends a bit differently and the siuation is changed. Note the borders are OTL modern ones and the colours are all that matters:

Luxembourg- Gains some small bits of Germany, mostly countryside and minor towns like Nittel.
Switzerland- Gets that bit of west Austria joining it post vote
Sweden- There is a referendum in Åland where they chose to join Sweden rather than the new Finland.
Hungary- Isn't punished quite so much with the ethnic hungarian areas of Slovakia, Croatia and Serbia staying with Hungary. After a referendum the Habsburgs are allowed to stay in power too albeit with effectivly no powers- sort of like the UK system.
Austria- Is also given a vote on whether to keep the monarchy or not. The choices in both Hungary and Austria were republic, personal union or independant monarchies. Luckily Austria went Republican which saved the bother of who would get the 'real' emperor.
Turkey- Punished more succesfully. Less of an attempt to carve it up from the Europeans but a lot of support given to local competing powers on the ground. The Kurds are granted a state and Armenia some sea access (albeit no decent port yet)
Bulgaria- Punished slightly less, keeps some of Macedonia
Yugoslavia- Isn't created. Instead you get a United Kingdom of Croatia-Serbia. Montenegro thinKs better of becoming second full in a south slav union. Slovenia in the meanwhile is established as a independant state with some rented sea access rights for Austria and Hungary.
Germany- Bavaria follows more of a independance first, socialism second policy and maintains its independance. Germany Keeps roughly similar eastern borders though some German majority areas remain German. East Prussia meanwhile after a vote is allowed to be the Kingdom of Prussia under the old Kaiser. Danzig is Kept part of Prussia though Poland are given major rights here until they can establish a new port of their own in Kashubia.
Finland- No guns in range of st.petes but otherwise big gains due to....
Russia- Containment of the soviets is followed rather than fighting futily to totally stop them. Edge groups of whites are supported. Finland maKes gains in the north, Ruthenia is established out of partial Russian lands and partial Hungarian ones, a white Republic is also heavily bacKed up around Crimea. Suggestions of establishing the Tsar safely in a rump around St.Petes however do not prove popular with the Finns and the Tsar himself who doesn't want to become a puppet King and wants the whole of Russia. Nonetheless the Tsar has survived and the soviets looK very unsteady.

The above phrase causes me to want to cause you great pain.

 

[Strategos' Risk]

A dystopian For Want of a Nail map.

Also links to the For All Time maps. Did anyone do one for Well Enough Alone yet?

 

[Jman]

Just messing around, trying to make a semi-plausible Nazi-victory map. Blue is the USA and allies, yellow is the British Commonwealth and allies, red is the USSR and allies, and the four shades of green are the Third Reich and allies, as follows:

-Dark green is Germany itself.
-Gray-green is the Lebensraum, German conquered territories in the east.
-Medium green is the Pact of Vienna, allied fascist or conservative nations.
-Light green is colonies of the Pact (specifically Vichy French North Africa which is being invaded by the Free French, Italian Greece and Libya, and Spanish Morocco).

Current year is 1955. China is in the midst of a civil war between American-backed Nationalists and USSR-backed Communists, and there are communist insurgencies in Indochina and Afghanistan, as well as a British-backed Tibetan separatist movement, communist resistance and Red Army stay-behind insurgency near the Urals, and an all-out war between British-allied Free France and Nazi-allied Vichy France in West Africa. Indonesia recently threw off their Dutch-in-Exile colonial masters and allied with the USSR, and Portugal recently switched sides and allied with the British although they may be trying to play the British and Germans off each other for their own benefit.

 

[Jman]

And here's the map:

 

[Ofaloaf]

Turkey- Punished more succesfully. Less of an attempt to carve it up from the Europeans but a lot of support given to local competing powers on the ground. The Kurds are granted a state and Armenia some sea access (albeit no decent port yet).

Whoa whoa whoa, what do you mean "punished more succesfully"? Greek Iznik is just excessive, and granting a Kurdish state that early on is going to be... odd, at least. Could lessen Turko-Armenian hostility, I suppose, but that's about the only upside I can see at the moment. Shoot, I don't think there was even a known Kurdish nationalist movement at the time.

 

[Seldrin]

snip

You know what I hate, and I'm sorry for targeting you on this Jman, is that people often overlook the fact that Papua New Guinea is a part of the British commonwealth, and during the time you're describing, it would very likely be under the direct government of Australia, as it was OTL.
Seriously, PNG, is one of the most frigged around with countries, people just don't know where to put it and often end up sticking it to places that it quite frankly is out of place in.

 

[B_Munro]

Two maps, drawing from the alternate history/time travel/New Wavey novel, All Times Possible, by Gordon Eklund. In a world rather different from our own, a man who is known as Tommy Bloome tries and fails to assassinate General Norton, one of the military men who run America in the year 1947. Summarily executed, he wakes up to find himself alive in the early 1920s, and uses the gift of previous knowledge he has obtained to bring about a successful Communist revolution in the 30s: but it’s not his 1920’s, and not ours, either…

The first world is the world “Tommy” was born into. John Nance Gardner was elected in 1932, Roosevelt in 1936. But there was an earlier divergence, leading to a far more vigorous Soviet support for the hard-left revolutionary elements in China, with such success that by the mid-1930s the Reds were well on their way to winning the Chinese civil war. Chiang Kai Shek was forced to (in the words of Khomeini) “swallow poison” to conduct an alliance of convenience with the Japanese against the Reds. With pressures from both the pro-China and the anti-Commie lobbies, the US started sending money, supplies, and “advisors” to China from 1937.

Things turned into a mega-Vietnam, the US got sucked deeper into China along with its erstwhile Japanese ally and the increasingly hapless Chiang. A powerful anti-war movement backed by the USSR led to state violence and ‘emergency decrees’, which led in turn to more violent protest. By the mid-40s things had expanded into a full-blown war with the USSR, and the military were firmly at the driver’s wheel: the attempted assassination of General Norton gave an excuse for a full-scale crackdown and the indefinite postponement of elections.

Butterflies arising from the US involvement in Asia and the Soviet concentration on Chinese affairs led to Hitler overreaching himself at Munich and a more vigorous response from the allies. Germany was defeated by a French-Polish-British-Czech alliance, with Mussolini staying neutral. The war was over by 1940, but was exhausting enough that the Europeans remained deaf to US calls for a joint crusade against Communism.

The war in the east finally ended in a UK-brokered peace of exhaustion in 1950 with the US-Japanese forces at the Urals. (The UK being the first nation with the atom bomb admittedly helped with people respecting its mediator position). Before long the Soviets and the Americans had bombs of their own, and a three-way cold war of sorts developed between the US-Japanese alliance, the rump Soviet Union, and the Europeans, which lasted until the Young Officer’s Coup of ’72 and the subsequent Second US Civil War of 1972-1975.

Today the US has returned to democracy, albeit one still bitterly divided by the events of 1937-1975 (and with no less than five ‘major’ political parties. Electoral rules with substantially changed as a result of the Constitutional Convention of 1976-1977). Due to the nuking of Washington DC in the civil war, the capital is currently in Pittsburg, although there is some talk of a new national capital being created, perhaps somewhere in the Midwest “heartland.” A “legitimist” dictatorship still survives under Japanese protection in Hawaii.

Although Western European democracy survived the long, bitter failed struggle to rebuild its colonial empires into European economic dependencies and satellites (Japan and the US mostly messing things up in SE Asia, the USSR to points west) the Portugal-Poland European Confederacy is now more right-wing than the US: a distinctly militaristic, aggressively “Pan-European” nationalism has emerged in response in the face of third-world humiliations somewhat similarly to the US post-Vietnam.

There is also a bit of triumphalism with respect to their relative success since 1975. The US and USSR nowadays are essentially peripheral to a European-dominated international economy, and although it retains some clout in the third world, the USSR is no longer a serious ideological competitor: even in the Communist heartlands Marxist economics have been largely abandoned, while the US no longer looks like a beacon of hope after its long detour through military dictatorship.

Only the huge, grim bulk of the Japanese Empire stands to some extent outside of a Europe-North Atlantic centered world-system. While in the end the US population would not stand for the permanent elimination of democracy, the Japanese military regime has hardened into outright fascism, and since the US pullout from south China has tightened its grip on the mainland into a regime of Stalinist harshness. Most Slavs have been expelled westwards from Siberia, which has been resettled by Japanese. To the south, the collapse of US-governed “free China” has been resolved by the emergence of two regimes, both equally dedicated to expelling the invader: said expelling has been somewhat delayed by their arguments as to who is the legitimate regime, and the Japanese tendency to drop mucho heavy munitions on anything that looks like chemical or nuclear weapons facilities. The Japanese empire is capitalist, but impoverished by massive military and security commitments, and crappy trade relations with the democracies. Still, it does have a hellaciously big army and lots of nukes, so people tend to treat them carefully.

Italian Fascism collapsed fairly bloodlessly after Mussolini was taken out by a massive cardiac infarction in ’66, while Germany was rehabilitated and allowed to rearm in the Nervous Fifties. With no Holocaust and a British Empire as determined as ever to keep those darn pesky Jews out of the Holy Land, Israel never reached critical mass, and Arab Nationalism did better, although it seems to reached its geographical extremes, with the Sudanese being quite uninterested in the UAR sending a few hundred thousand troops to help them vs. the East African Federation.

Said East African Federation being the most successful of the European’s efforts to create large, economically effective political unions out of their previous colonies. Not that the aggressive, Pan-Africanist government in Nairobi is very friendly with Europe, and has been pretty cosy with the USSR at times in the past. Ethiopia, a former Italian colony, has reformed as a loose federation of three ethnic nations, minus the Ogaden, incorporated into Italian Somalia and now into the Somali Union.

The rump USSR, battered as badly in its war with the US and Japan as OTL vs. the Nazis, and with a humiliating peace at the end of it, has undergone much more radical changes since 1950 than OTL USSR did 1953-1984, although it remains a one-party dictatorship. There have been several changes of “party line” and the assassination of one Secretary-General. With fewer ethnicities, it has been more successful at creating a “Soviet Nationalism” and is rather open to third-world immigrants (there are currently some 8 million “Afro-Soviets”, most living in the warmer areas in the south). Currently, the USSR is in the midst of a crack-down, turbulence arising from an attempted course of radical reform having led to near civil war in some parts of the state. Stability had been largely restored, but at considerable cost, and there is bitter behind-doors political infighting as where to go from here.


Bruce

 

[B_Munro]

And here's the associated map.

Bruce

 

[B_Munro]

The second world is the one “Tommy” created by carrying out a communist revolution in the US. The US kept out of WWII, which ended in 1944 in an essential peace of exhaustion. In spite of his success, he was forced from power by 1941 and died in “internal exile” in 1947. This world was not ours, either: William Randolph Hearts never survived childhood in office, and Garner got into office again in 1932, but was succeeded by Newton Baker, not Roosevelt.

The first atom bomb was developed in this world in 1947, by the Soviets. Two years later, when the USSR made grumbly noises re the German duplication of the bomb and suggested an immediate universal nuclear freeze, the end-game began. Thanks to Von Braun and co. the Germans had a delivery system almost from the start, but their production was initially very low, while the USSR had poured their remaining resources into ramping up production after their first bomb. The USSR was a very spread-out target, the Reich a concentrated one. And the UK had a bomb of their own and loads of chemical weapons. By the end of 1952, the USSR was victorious and standing astride the ruins of Germany, but exhausted, radioactive, and bled white. The Brits had liberated France and the Low Countries, received the hasty surrender of southern Italy and freed most of German Africa, but had been bled badly themselves.

The United Socialist States of America had meanwhile developed a bomb of their own, and a cold peace prevailed. The Japanese received an atomic ultimatum and a couple demonstration bombs in 1955 and pulled out of continental Asia, although thanks to US and UK pressures (worried about Soviet competition) avoided outright conquest. The Reds, with Soviet support, soon took control in China and Korea.

It seemed for a while that Red conquest of the globe was inevitable, but the USSA and the USSR hated each other almost from the first, and it was not long before the Chinese went off their own way. Meanwhile, the Brits and their European allies hung on somehow, and Communism failed to overrun South America (Yankee imposition of Communism on first Mexico and later most of Central America made it look like a new form of Imperialism to Brazilians, Argentines and co.). The Middle East failed to fall in line, either, although with the USSR in a much stronger position a leftist regime was imposed in Iran and hardened over the years (to the accompaniment of one rebellion after another).

Today the USSR survives as an ethnic Slavic dictatorship slowly shambling in the direction of Capitalism. Without the US to compete with, Soviet conquests in Europe were simply incorporated into the USSR: in any event, they really needed the manpower after the horrible losses of 1941-1944 and 1949-1952. The USSR is big on mass population movements and resettlements: in the border areas with the democracies, Germans have been replaced with central Asians and Slavs, while tens of millions of Germans (of those who survived) have been scattered through the empire and blotted up like the Jews in Assyria. The Baltic States and Kazakhstan have solid Slavic majorities.

China, on the other hand, has stuck with a more conventional Communist path, and nowadays looks like the USSR of the 1970s with more pollution and worse resource shortages. Atomic power is a must, and the inhabitants of Xinjiang are very nervous about all those fast breeder reactors in the Taklamakan. China has managed to snag the loyalties of a number of former Soviet clients as the USSR has become increasingly post-ideological and “red-brown”, but faces some serious problems with continued modernization. Currently the campaign is “restore full self-sufficiency in basic products by 2014” and everyone has a productive rooftop garden – or else.

Tommy Bloome’s Workers Republic is no more. Too many Americans recalled a better life before the Revolution, expectations were too high and unlike in Russia or China, Americans were not accustomed to going hungry. Repression and fear of atomic war with China and/or the USSR held things together for a while, but a slow, bloody meltdown took place in the 1980s and the country fell apart entirely in the 90s. Today, some six successor states occupy the former space of the US: in spite of their geographical separation, the Pacific states and the northeastern states are seriously discussing reunification. The Mormons, finally having their own state, have no interest in rejoining the state that oppressed them so bloodily in the 40s and 50s: the New Confederacy has put its many local Party Leaders down the memory hole and consider the whole USSA thing a Yankee imposition, and look with suspicion on the regimented, militarized regimes of western Europe; and the Hawaiians, independent as a British protectorate since the late 30s, have been independent long enough to get accustomed to it. As for the WFRA, whose hard-bitten inhabitants have made Communism a new religion of their own, it’s the other states who should rejoin them.

Former Communist regimes, now relapsed to mere leftism or even (horrors) capitalism, litter te landscape. Still, Mexico is consumed by civil war, and the weirdoes in the Andes have created their Agrarian Perfect Society with the extermination of, tops, 10% of the population. Nobody would object much if someone moved in and removed them from power, but the Andes are now littered with something like 30 million concrete blockhouses and defensive positions, and the idea of occupying the place one square mile at a time unnerves most people.

The League of Democracies still hangs in there, having survived such crises as the brief spell of military rule in France, the Invasion Scare of ’61, the Iranian Crisis of ’79, and the Stock Market Crash of ’87 (which led to the 90s Slump and the Neo-Peronist revolutions in Venezuela and Argentina). Although some of its members (Brazil, Turkey, Malaysia, S. Italy…) aren’t really very democratic, it’s the closest this world has to the Forces of Niceness, and although western Europe, Canada and Australia-NZ are poorer, more regulated, and far more heavily armed places than their equivalents in our world, they’re still better places to live than in the various Worker’s Paradises. With the collapse of the USSA and the increasing inward turn of a post-revolutionary USSR, the League has expanded its influence in Africa and Latin America, and has been joined by India, looking for new allies after the USSA (a traditional supporter) collapsed.

In Africa, the Azanians put up with the few square miles still controlled by the Boers – after all, the crazy men have at least a few nukes of their own, and it is satisfying that they’re now the ones trapped in a little enclave of a “homeland.” Relations are worse with the LoD allied “Three Kingdoms”, the conservative Zulu having joined forces with the Swazi and the Sotho (and whith massive LoD arms shipments) to resist becoming part of the Glorious Republic. Former German East Africa former Tanganyika former Nazi East Africa tried to do a Von Lettow after the fall of the Fatherland, but weren’t really up for it when the Soviet Marines landed. Today the place is the most satellite-ish of Soviet satellites, and the location of a major Soviet naval base.

The Middle East is dominated by the Jerusalem League, an Arab organization formed to prevent future Soviet expansion after the Soviets sent troops to keep a friendly government in power in Iran in ’65. They receive considerable military aid from the LoD (and also from the Chinese, who are always happy to take a poke at their great rival), but their governments generally avoid admitting this to their citizens. Israel failed to take off here as well, thanks to Nazi hostility and few Jews making it out of Europe 1944-1952. A rump Jewish state survives around Tel Aviv: the rest of OTL Palestine is divided up between Jordan, Egypt and Syria, and the Palestinians are surprisingly (and often violently) insistent that they have a separate identity from Egyptian Fellahin, Jordanian Bedu, or those annoying Syrians.

The Turks are still pissy over the Soviets bullying them into making the Straits a demilitarized, free-access zone in the 50s so they could easily project force into the Mediterranean.

It’s a nervous world. The risk of global thermonuclear war has decreased from the 1980s, but the Chinese and the Soviets still grumble at each other, and although the USSR is less scared of the LoD than it was of the US and NATO OTL, they still worry, especially given the increasing lead they are displaying in the field of computer tech. (This world, thanks to a Soviet US, and a poorer, smaller Western Europe, is nearly two decades behind OTL technologically).

Bruce

 

[B_Munro]

And here's the map.

Bruce

 

[Hapsburg]

Europe, 1780.
In the Third Silesian War, Prussia made a grudging alliance with the Kingdom of Poland. However, they were both soundly defeated in the late 1750's by a combined force of French, Austrian, and Russian armies. King Frederick II committed suicide; his army collapsed, and a cabal of generals seized power in Berlin, with Frederick's brother Augustus William as figurehead. In the peace treaty of 1761, Russia annexed Lithuania and Prussia proper; Austria annexed Galicia and retook Silesia. A rump Poland and a rump Brandenburg were left whittled to its barest bones; many Prussian lands in the Rhineland were given to the powerful bishoprics, in league with Austria.
In the subsequent era, Austria led an unprecedented period of peace and economic growth in Germany throughout the 1760's and 1770's.
Meanwhile, Britain had crushed France in the 1750's, leading to a separate peace; historians would later credit this as the key reason for Prussia's failure. Britain pulling out of the war by 1760 meant a critical shortage of foreign aid and supplies for Prussia; had Britain held in with them, Prussia may have lasted two or three more years.

After the relatively peaceful 1760's, the 1770's saw Austria engage in brief wars with Venice and the Ottoman Empire. In the former, Austria annexed a section of land to connect Milan with the rest of the Austrian empire. In the latter, Austria assisted Russia' seizure of the Crimea by performing delaying actions and guerilla attacks in the Balkans; thus keeping the Ottoman Army tied down while Russian forces trampled and swallowed up southern Ukraine.
In the late 1770's, Maria Theresa was obviously ailing; the loss of her husband ten years earlier had taken their toll on her. Her son now exercised more and more power; he endeavoured to seize Bavaria. In 1777, he struck a deal with the heir of the Bavarian throne, Charles Theodore; Bavaria would go to Austria, and Charles would be given the Austrian Netherlands. However, Emperor Joseph II reneged on the latter part of the deal; his army marched into Bavaria and he was crowned Elector and Duke, while Charles Theodore was sent packing, back to the Rhenish Palatinate. The Netherlands remained Austrian; attempts by Charles Theodore to lead a rebellion were fruitless, as his unpopularity in Bavaria outweighed that of the Emperor. Brandenburg could do nothing to stop it, and Saxony was on Austria's side.
In 1780, Maria Theresa died. Now, her son, the Holy Roman Emperor Joseph II, had his full opportunity to make the reforms he had so longed for in his lands, and bring all of Germany under Austria's grand, imperial wing.

 

[Tyr]

Whoa whoa whoa, what do you mean "punished more succesfully"? Greek Iznik is just excessive, and granting a Kurdish state that early on is going to be... odd, at least. Could lessen Turko-Armenian hostility, I suppose, but that's about the only upside I can see at the moment. Shoot, I don't think there was even a known Kurdish nationalist movement at the time.

IOTL Turkey was supposed to be cut down even more but none of it stuck. The Greek over extended and the big powers had too much on their plate to care that much. Here they've decided on something less crazy and it did work out. I don't think Iznik is Greek on that map- they need Istanbul and it'd be a bit...iffy to just give them the city boundaries, they need a bit more.
IOTL there were plans for a kurdistan post ww1, there were indeed kurds pushing this- ethnic nationalism as a whole at the time just wasn't quite so crazy outside of europe. The Turkish resurgance though put paid to all thoughts of kurdistan.

The above phrase causes me to want to cause you great pain.

Context.
Luckily for the sake of the mess that would occur if Austria and Hungary wanted a monarchy but didn't want personal union.

 

[ImperialVienna]

Europe, 1780.
In the Third Silesian War, Prussia made a grudging alliance with the Kingdom of Poland. However, they were both soundly defeated in the late 1750's by a combined force of French, Austrian, and Russian armies. King Frederick II committed suicide; his army collapsed, and a cabal of generals seized power in Berlin, with Frederick's brother Augustus William as figurehead. In the peace treaty of 1761, Russia annexed Lithuania and Prussia proper; Austria annexed Galicia and retook Silesia. A rump Poland and a rump Brandenburg were left whittled to its barest bones; many Prussian lands in the Rhineland were given to the powerful bishoprics, in league with Austria.
In the subsequent era, Austria led an unprecedented period of peace and economic growth in Germany throughout the 1760's and 1770's.
Meanwhile, Britain had crushed France in the 1750's, leading to a separate peace; historians would later credit this as the key reason for Prussia's failure. Britain pulling out of the war by 1760 meant a critical shortage of foreign aid and supplies for Prussia; had Britain held in with them, Prussia may have lasted two or three more years.

After the relatively peaceful 1760's, the 1770's saw Austria engage in brief wars with Venice and the Ottoman Empire. In the former, Austria annexed a section of land to connect Milan with the rest of the Austrian empire. In the latter, Austria assisted Russia' seizure of the Crimea by performing delaying actions and guerilla attacks in the Balkans; thus keeping the Ottoman Army tied down while Russian forces trampled and swallowed up southern Ukraine.
In the late 1770's, Maria Theresa was obviously ailing; the loss of her husband ten years earlier had taken their toll on her. Her son now exercised more and more power; he endeavoured to seize Bavaria. In 1777, he struck a deal with the heir of the Bavarian throne, Charles Theodore; Bavaria would go to Austria, and Charles would be given the Austrian Netherlands. However, Emperor Joseph II reneged on the latter part of the deal; his army marched into Bavaria and he was crowned Elector and Duke, while Charles Theodore was sent packing, back to the Rhenish Palatinate. The Netherlands remained Austrian; attempts by Charles Theodore to lead a rebellion were fruitless, as his unpopularity in Bavaria outweighed that of the Emperor. Brandenburg could do nothing to stop it, and Saxony was on Austria's side.
In 1780, Maria Theresa died. Now, her son, the Holy Roman Emperor Joseph II, had his full opportunity to make the reforms he had so longed for in his lands, and bring all of Germany under Austria's grand, imperial wing.

Yay, Hapsburg's Mini TLs are back!

 

[Ridwan Asher]

IOTL Turkey was supposed to be cut down even more but none of it stuck. The Greek over extended and the big powers had too much on their plate to care that much. Here they've decided on something less crazy and it did work out. I don't think Iznik is Greek on that map- they need Istanbul and it'd be a bit...iffy to just give them the city boundaries, they need a bit more.
IOTL there were plans for a kurdistan post ww1, there were indeed kurds pushing this- ethnic nationalism as a whole at the time just wasn't quite so crazy outside of europe. The Turkish resurgance though put paid to all thoughts of kurdistan.

Giving them all of Thrace will give Greece not really small amount of Turkish population.... Wonder how TTL Greece will develop. Will Turkey have enough Greeks to barter the Thracian Turks with ?

 

[Ofaloaf]

IOTL Turkey was supposed to be cut down even more but none of it stuck. The Greek over extended and the big powers had too much on their plate to care that much. Here they've decided on something less crazy and it did work out. I don't think Iznik is Greek on that map- they need Istanbul and it'd be a bit...iffy to just give them the city boundaries, they need a bit more.

Shoot, you're right about Iznik. Confused locations on my part-- still, you gave them control of the Anatolian side of the straits, and even that's going to cause some problems pretty soon down the line.

IOTL there were plans for a kurdistan post ww1, there were indeed kurds pushing this- ethnic nationalism as a whole at the time just wasn't quite so crazy outside of europe. The Turkish resurgance though put paid to all thoughts of kurdistan.

So there really was a Kurdish ethno-nationalist movement? Huh. Always thought that it only really started to grow post-WWII.

I imagine that the Turks are going to be absolutely pissed at this state of affairs, though.

 

[Goldstein]

And here's the map.

Bruce

Don't get me wrong, Bruce: I absolutely love yor maps and the way you detail the backgrounds you make... but every time I see your independent Catalonias eating chunks of Aragon and the upper half of Valencia by default, I want to erase my face with a cheese grinder. Because the Catalan Border is probably the easiest border of the Multiverse. Let me show you:

 

[Rekjavik]

Two maps, drawing from the alternate history/time travel/New Wavey novel, All Times Possible, by Gordon Eklund. In a world rather different from our own, a man who is known as Tommy Bloome tries and fails to assassinate General Norton, one of the military men who run America in the year 1947. Summarily executed, he wakes up to find himself alive in the early 1920s, and uses the gift of previous knowledge he has obtained to bring about a successful Communist revolution in the 30s: but it’s not his 1920’s, and not ours, either…

I am adding this to my list of reasons for not changing history, even if I could.

Some very interesting settings, as always, although I would much prefer the former to the latter. Great maps and I look forward to your next project.

 

[B_Munro]

Don't get me wrong, Bruce: I absolutely love yor maps and the way you detail the backgrounds you make... but every time I see your independent Catalonias eating chunks of Aragon and the upper half of Valencia by default, I want to erase my face with a cheese grinder. Because the Catalan Border is probably the easiest border of the Multiverse. Let me show you:

This map would seem to argue otherwise with respect to Aragon:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Mapa_dialectal_del_català.png

but I suppose I'm being hard on Valencia.

(Or is there much less Catalan nationalism among the speakers of the western variety of the language?)

Bruce

 

[The Kiat]

Something that came from EU III.... behold, the Italian Empire.