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Status of the US, post war (part 1)

the Texas addendum was just for fun. This is the real post for today

Status of the US, post war (part 1)



[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Socially[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]There is a lot of social unrest caused by the failure of the war, with taxes raised so much and nothing to show for it. There is much anger, but it's hard to know just to whom to direct it. Some are mad at the New Englanders, some at the British, some at the 'incompetent' government, some at 'foreigners' (no one said anger had to be rational), some at 'those darned Injuns' (mostly meaning the Red Stick Creeks, but also Tecumseh's confederacy, and even pro-US Indians like the Cherokee). Many, of course, are angry at (fairly random) combinations of the above. This nasty social stew just makes solving America's real problems much harder. There are riots and mobs targeting Federalists, foreigners and Catholics in various places, and sometimes the authorities don't seem to want to intervene. Some flee for New England or BNA, and many others think about it. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Financially[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The US ended the War of 1812 with a huge debt load, and the loss of New England, which as a centre of commerce and industry had provided a disproportionate share of the US tax burden. When New England went independent, the US had hoped that she would assume a 'fair' share of the national debt, but the end result was far 'fairer' to New England than the US. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]In Congress, there is very little agreement as to how to solve the financial situation. Partly, of course, they can't. There is no way they can return to a financial status quo ante, and that adds to the frustration. However, it is clear that some things have to be done. 1) Soldiers and sailors have to be demobilized, which saves on money, but causes other problems (including a sudden surge in young men trying to re-enter a workforce in a recession). There is no immediate danger of any foreign wars, so that's safe enough. 2) The rather generous funding of pensions for injured and killed military is reduced. (OTL they spent ~2.5M$ in 1819, which was more than they spent on their entire war department in 1810, and more than a third of what they spent on that department in 1819) 3)Federal funding on roads and canals is temporarily slowed, but not stopped. Already some income is flowing in from the roads constructed with federal help during the war, and it is obvious that this should be a high (long term) priority. 4) tax revenues, direct and indirect, are raised. Actually, some war time tax rates are lowered, but customs duties are kept and even raised. With the end of the war, and the ending of the blockade, this starts bringing in a lot more revenue. Finally, the customs increases enacted during the war are having some benefit. The resulting tariff wall has the additional effect of protecting and encouraging American industry. (This is a desired result for some – namely industrialists in New York, Pennsylvania and Virginia, and an undesired side effect for others – just about everyone else in the country.)[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]One advantage the government has that is not immediately recognized as one, is the very significant inflation that is taking place. The government simply can't issue only Tnotes that are backed by gold, as they don't have that much, and they still have expenses that have to be paid. Already, by the end of the war, the US dollar is trading at 1/4 to 1/5 its nominal value in gold, and it keeps dropping. Thus loans that were taken out at, say 8% can be paid off in inflated dollars. Of course, they were often taken out in inflated dollars, so they don't get QUITE as much benefit, but it's still there. On the other hand, there are several financiers who bought large amounts of the Government debt as a gamble. OTL, they profited handsomely, here they are ruined. This means that there is less PRIVATE investment available for improvements in the coming decades. Similarly, expenses like pensions aren't indexed to inflation, so the government saves a lot there, too, even if it creates a lot of misery for widows and wounded soldiers. The financial reforms do keep away hyperinflation, but don't stop the drop in the dollar until it is worth 1/10 its original value, where it more or less stays. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Some years later, the government tries to increase the value of the dollar, but this causes DE-flation, which is as bad in some ways as IN-flation, and so they back off. So when the US does start issuing gold-backed bank-notes, they do have to recognize the new rate. (At approximately 50/British pound rather than 5).[/FONT]
 
Grimm Reaper. This post is just for you. I was inspired by your complaint.



[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]He's their chosen monarch, so they accept his 'whimsy' and proclaim Texas as a Duchy. However, any paperwork that the Duke didn't have to sign referred to Texas as “The Grand Duchy of Texas”. Duke Charles bangs his head on his desk and remonstrates with his officials “We're a Duchy, not a Grand Duchy!!” “Yes, Your Grace but isn't Texas grand?” “Yes, but it … is … not … a … GRAND DUCHY! Understand?” “Yes, Your Grace”. But the paperwork continues to say “Grand Duchy”. Charles bangs his head some mor[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]e.[/FONT]

Nitpick, but it's my understanding of these things that "Grand Duke/Duchy" is the appropriate style for a duke who is also an independent sovereign and doesn't indicate any particular size or status other than that (granted, being independent is a big deal). So, the Texans are being perfectly correct and Charles needs a talking to.

I suppose we ought to be grateful they didn't go for "Empire of Texas". I'm sure its coming...
 
Dathi

Sounds like a fairly probable set of circumstances. Going to be a period of disorder and uncertainty before the US sorts itself out. The big question is what sort of US will emerge? How will it differ? Looking forwards to finding out.

Steve
 
Nitpick, but it's my understanding of these things that "Grand Duke/Duchy" is the appropriate style for a duke who is also an independent sovereign and doesn't indicate any particular size or status other than that (granted, being independent is a big deal). So, the Texans are being perfectly correct and Charles needs a talking to.

I suppose we ought to be grateful they didn't go for "Empire of Texas". I'm sure its coming...
Hmmm... You know I think I may have conflated Grand Duke and Archduke...

Still, looking at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_duchy
it seems like 'Grand Duke' was a fairly specialized title until Napoleon expanded the use, and, of course, Duke Charles doesn't recognize the validity of ANYTHING Napoleon did. Right?

Not the 'Grand Duchy'ness of Luxembourg is only 1815, and part of the Napoleonic title inflation.

Those papers may occasionally refer to Charles as an Archduke, as well, as that sounds better than 'Grand Duke' - but 'Grand Duchy' sounds better than 'Archduchy'....
 
Status of the US, post war (part 2)

Status of the US, post war (part 2)



[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Politically[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The general anger of the population is focussed on the Army and the Government, viewing them as incompetent, and wasteful of dollars, lives and hopes. While the Federalist party is dead, often viewed as appeasers and traitors, the Democratic-Republican party of Jefferson and Madison is equally doomed, and splinters into shards. And because of the suddenness of the shock, there is little or no time to build new parties in opposition that can take over - the existing opposition is even deader. In the elections of 1816, some seats in Congress are contested by 5-6 candidates, and in one or two cases, the winning candidate only got 25% of the vote or less. New parties sprung up out of the corpse of the Democratic-Republicans, and out of the ground like mushrooms. The Anti-Federalists, the Anti-Masonics, the Democrats, the National Republicans, the American party (or Know-nothings, a nativist, anti-catholic party), just to name some of the more 'prominent' ones.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]James Monroe and Thomas Pinckney ran on the National Republican ticket, running as the two men who had actually accomplished something in the war, James Monroe building roads and infrastructure, and Pinckney in charge of the only territorial GAIN (St. Augustine) that the US made. Their platform was to build transportation and industrial infrastructure, to build up the US so she would never have to suffer such a defeat again. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]William H Crawford was the candidate for the Democratic Party (dropping the 'republican' from 'Democratic Republican'), and came in second. Crawford paints the Monroe as crypto-Federalist (which it really is), but since the main reason the Federalists are despised is that they were against the war, and Monroe and Pinckney are heroes from the war, the charge doesn't stick well. Still, it puts the new Democratic party in a 'low-tariff', 'states rights', 'planter's party' as opposed to Monroe's infrastructure, industry and tariff party. Crawford may not have realized how the election rhetoric was shaping the future platform of the party, as what he was trying to do was beat Monroe, not create the party platform, but he ended up stuck with his campaign rhetoric.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Multiple other candidates ran for various parties, but these two got most of the electoral votes. (Maryland's 11 votes were widely spread - she even cast one electoral vote for Rufus King a New York Federalist). A couple of the minor parties ran a candidate for President, but nominated Pinckney for Vice President (as he was the only unambiguous hero). Thus when the electoral votes were counted, Pinckney won the election as Vice President, but the selection of Presidency fell to the House. Since Monroe had a strong plurality and was fairly viable, he was, in the end elected by the House, and became President. This was the only time in history that the Presidency was chosen by Congress and the VP not. [TTL, I don't believe a split election where one of the two offices has been thrown to Congress and the other not has ever happened OTL][/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]By the 1818 House of Representatives elections, things have settled down with the Nationals following Monroe's policies (think Clay's American System of rather later in OTL – this is largely the pre-war Federalist position – except for tariffs, but Monroe doesn't admit that). The Democrats follow (largely) the old, pre-war Democratic-Republican line (but don't admit it). A few Representatives are elected from the minor parties, but they quickly die out as a force.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Both parties have definite revanchist and nativist leanings – they wouldn't have been elected otherwise – so anyone who favours increased immigration, say, has now place in the current political spectrum.

[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Race relations: Blacks[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Abolitionism certainly doesn't disappear, but it does slow down. The British arming of blacks (in a small way in Chesapeake Bay, and in a big way in the far south), worries and scares the average white American a lot. Blacks have had a chance to feel some self-worth, and there is a fair bit of retaliation against 'uppity' blacks. This also leads to laws restricting free blacks in many states (including in the north), which means that many blacks are in a really hard place. Many on the seacoast truly regret not having taken up the British officer of freedom. Liberia is founded in 1820 (one year earlier than OTL) as a place t/o/ d/u/m/p/ for free blacks to go.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Blacks anywhere near the borders are strongly tempted to flee. Once they cross any border, they will be free. In Spanish Florida, and to a lesser extent in the Confederacy, they are welcomed. In elsewhere, however unwelcome and despised, they at least have legal protection.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Race relations: Indians[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The war worsened the status of Indians in the US. While the Cherokee and the US based 6 nations were supportive of the American side, and don't have any official action taken against them, the general public mood is that 'Them Injuns stabbed us in the back', and the general populace isn't terribly interested in making distinctions between pro- and anti- US groups. Fortunately for the Cherokee and Iroquois, at least there neighbours (mostly) make that distinction, but even there, the trust level has dropped.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]For groups that had had major factions actively fighting the US, especially the Creeks and Seminoles, their status becomes pretty dire. They are forced to sign punitive land claims opening up most of Alabama and Mississippi territories to white settlement, and even the areas they keep are sometimes invaded by white settlers squatting on their land, and there is little they can do about it. Very many Creek, even those who HAD supported the US, find that fleeing to Spanish Florida is the best option.[/FONT]
 
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Very interesting Election of 1816 scenario. I wonder what it would feel like to get elected with only 24% of the vote as a Representative? I would probably hire a couple security guards.

Anyways,there actually was an Election where the President got the majority of EVs, but the VP got thrown in the Senate:

from Wikipedia on the Election of 1836:

"Virginia's electors refused to vote for Van Buren's running mate, Richard Mentor Johnson, leaving him one vote short of the 148-vote majority required to elect. Under the Twelfth Amendment, the Senate would decide between the top two vote-getters, deciding on Johnson over Francis Granger."

The reason for this, IIRC is that Richard Mentor Johnson was married to an African-American, which obviously disturbed some Southrons from VA.
 
Very interesting Election of 1816 scenario. I wonder what it would feel like to get elected with only 24% of the vote as a Representative? I would probably hire a couple security guards.

Anyways,there actually was an Election where the President got the majority of EVs, but the VP got thrown in the Senate:

from Wikipedia on the Election of 1836:

"Virginia's electors refused to vote for Van Buren's running mate, Richard Mentor Johnson, leaving him one vote short of the 148-vote majority required to elect. Under the Twelfth Amendment, the Senate would decide between the top two vote-getters, deciding on Johnson over Francis Granger."

The reason for this, IIRC is that Richard Mentor Johnson was married to an African-American, which obviously disturbed some Southrons from VA.
Ah. Thanks. I even knew that Johnson had political problems due to his wife, I hadn't realized he was a VP candidate or that it got thrown to the Senate.

Love this board.
 
Forgot the Election of 1824 Mess

I had forgotten for a moment about the Election of 1824 being thrown into the House.

We all know about the 4 contenders in 1824 and the "Corrupt Bargain" that got JQ Adams in the White House through the House of Representatives block votes, and set an angry Andrew Jackson on the path to form the Democratic Party.

But despite the large number of contenders for the VP spot, John Calhoun of South Carolina actually won the Vice Presidency in a cake walk, winning over 2/3 of the Electoral Votes for that position. One odd thing about the Election of 1824 is that it seems that due to the evaporation of Democratic-Republican unity, there was no real coordination between the guys running for POTUS and the guys running for VP; they ran two totally different races.
 
I had forgotten for a moment about the Election of 1824 being thrown into the House.

We all know about the 4 contenders in 1824 and the "Corrupt Bargain" that got JQ Adams in the White House through the House of Representatives block votes, and set an angry Andrew Jackson on the path to form the Democratic Party.

But despite the large number of contenders for the VP spot, John Calhoun of South Carolina actually won the Vice Presidency in a cake walk, winning over 2/3 of the Electoral Votes for that position. One odd thing about the Election of 1824 is that it seems that due to the evaporation of Democratic-Republican unity, there was no real coordination between the guys running for POTUS and the guys running for VP; they ran two totally different races.
Wow. Thanks again. And welcome to the thread.
 
Yet another great update! The political situation is going to be interesting for the next couple of years, since it's seems like it's chaotic at this point.
 
Status of the US, post war (part 3)

Status of the US, post war (part 3)



[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Agriculture[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The US has huge debts and little way to pay them. Yes, they can sell some grain to Europe from e.g. New York and Pennsylvania, but that isn't very profitable. (Especially since the primary market is England, and they're shut out of that market by the Corn Laws.) They can't sell manufactured goods abroad, as those are of rather higher price and lower quality than the British (certainly) or New Englanders (often) can provide. This leaves cash crops. There is a large increase in the acreage planted in cotton (and also tobacco) in the decade or so after the war, much of it in land seized from the various Indian nations in Alabama and Mississippi territories. These crops can be taken down the rivers to the Gulf coast where the tariffs are lower (in practice) than similar crops passing through New Orleans. (Until the 1819 trade agreement with London, the tariffs on outgoing US goods through New Orleans was pretty punitive. Even afterwards, some of the officials in Florida, especially at the minor ports of minor rivers, were relatively susceptible to bribery, which was cheaper than tariffs.)[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]While many of the early settlers in these newly opened lands are small holders, the large plantations are more efficient at producing tons of cotton/white man, and so plantation agriculture and institutional slavery become the norm in these new lands. And the flood of hard currency that flows through their hands will give them significant political clout in the future.[/FONT]




[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Foreign relations.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The US is pretty lonely on the international stage at the moment. She hates Britain and Spain, and isn't very happy with France their ally. Russia, partly because shares the US position of freedom of the seas for neutral nations, is friendly, but they and the various German nations don't have a lot of interaction with the US. The major Continental powers are rather dubious about the US's republican ideology, as well, and even a little threatened. The US does support the Mexican revolution, running war surplus weaponry in, but can't do much more officially because of the US financial position, and lack of a common border. She also, similarly, but far less effectively, supports revolution on the various Caribbean islands, but most of those revolts lose. As of 1820 her allies are limited to Mexico and Haiti. Her relations with Latin America are cordial – but they respect, and can get more from, the New Englanders, in general, so few are prepared to actually ally with the US. The one government service in South America is the Argentine navy, thanks to William Brown, but even that advocacy goes so far.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Infrastructure[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The initial bout of road and canal building was in the North, started during the war for military purposes. However, once the war is over, there is a major spate of road building in the south, as well, especially in the newly opened lands in Alabama and Mississippi. One of the reasons the Creek War failed iTTL is the state of the roads in the south, especially south from Tennessee. Wilkinson had actually had a net of roads built in the southwest, to and from Mobile - but the Spanish have them now, mostly. Getting access to some of the south-flowing rivers so goods can be exported through Spanish ports (with occasionally bribeable officials) instead of British New Orleans will be important. And building those roads also makes it a lot easier for settlers to move in. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Of course, the military use of roads is also considered. While there was no time to do anything about it in the war of 1812, conflict with Spain (and Britain) in the south seems entirely likely at some point. If the army can't move goods and supplies south or travel east-west then the US concedes the war before it starts. More immediately, the network can be used to 'pacify' Indians if it is necessary. This is yet another cogent reason for expanding southern roads. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]By the time that US federal finances are in shape to do much more investing in transportation, a lot of the funds move south. By that time, too, the planters are starting to gain wealth again, and their State governments and banks are too, as a result, so a fair bit of those funds are invested in various toll roads, etc., in the south. Investing in the North is still happening, of course, as Britain, Canada and the Confederacy are all seen as higher priority military targets/threats than the Spanish, and the commercial powers are still in the northern states. Federal funds are an important catalyst for this infrastructure investment, but more of the investment is private or State funded, with many projects being financed by from a combination of sources - public/private or federal/state. For instance, iOTL, the Erie canal was entirely NY state financed, here the Feds chip in some, but not most.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Railroads are built, mostly on the east coast, but with the reduced amount of British capital and the increased expense of importing British equipment, and the lack of New England industry, means that the rail net is somewhat less than OTL. The only reason it's not a LOT less is because of the priority placed on it. Most of the rail is on the east coast, with some (short) lines of primarily military importance in the west.[/FONT]
 

Thande

Donor
Just finished this so far. Excellent work, it deserves to be better known.

I think you could do with dragging Susano and Valdemar II in here to argue about what the Congress of Vienna will look like in TTL with Wellington's capture of Paris, and you could also use one of the Mapsbergers people from Books and Media to help illustrate the situation.
 
Just finished this so far. Excellent work, it deserves to be better known.

I think you could do with dragging Susano and Valdemar II in here to argue about what the Congress of Vienna will look like in TTL with Wellington's capture of Paris, and you could also use one of the Mapsbergers people from Books and Media to help illustrate the situation.
Wow, I've got THE Thande commenting. Welcome, and thanks.
 
I think you could do with dragging Susano and Valdemar II in here to argue about what the Congress of Vienna will look like in TTL with Wellington's capture of Paris, and you could also use one of the Mapsbergers people from Books and Media to help illustrate the situation.
I will cheerfully admit I have no clue what's going to happen with the Congress of Vienna. Partly I wanted the Brits at Paris first so they had more prestige, and didn't need quite as many troops in Europe. One source said something about Britain needing to keep troops in Europe to bolster their negotiating position (IIRC), which I thought could be done as well by having been a touch more visible at the end.

I'm not envisioning a whole lot of butterflies in Europe in the immediate future, although you're going to see a few in Britain herself fairly soon.

If anyone has suggestions for likely changes in Europe, I'd be glad to hear them...
 
Status of the US, post war (part 3)

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Agriculture[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The US has huge debts and little way to pay them. Yes, they can sell some grain to Europe from e.g. New York and Pennsylvania, but that isn't very profitable. (Especially since the primary market is England, and they're shut out of that market by the Corn Laws.) They can't sell manufactured goods abroad, as those are of rather higher price and lower quality than the British (certainly) or New Englanders (often) can provide. This leaves cash crops. There is a large increase in the acreage planted in cotton (and also tobacco) in the decade or so after the war, much of it in land seized from the various Indian nations in Alabama and Mississippi territories. These crops can be taken down the rivers to the Gulf coast where the tariffs are lower (in practice) than similar crops passing through New Orleans. (Until the 1819 trade agreement with London, the tariffs on outgoing US goods through New Orleans was pretty punitive. Even afterwards, some of the officials in Florida, especially at the minor ports of minor rivers, were relatively susceptible to bribery, which was cheaper than tariffs.)[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]While many of the early settlers in these newly opened lands are small holders, the large plantations are more efficient at producing tons of cotton/white man, and so plantation agriculture and institutional slavery become the norm in these new lands. And the flood of hard currency that flows through their hands will give them significant political clout in the future.[/FONT]


One of the big challanges in OTL in the US south was the high nutrient uptake of cotton and tobbacco farms leading to declining crops over time. In our timeline much of the land was eventually abandoned in the Great Depression leading to the US government planting it with trees forming the basis for the SE US lumbering industry down there today. Any idea how this is going to be handled if the land starts to deteriorate long term?

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Infrastructure[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The initial bout of road and canal building was in the North, started during the war for military purposes. However, once the war is over, there is a major spate of road building in the south, as well, especially in the newly opened lands in Alabama and Mississippi. One of the reasons the Creek War failed iTTL is the state of the roads in the south, especially south from Tennessee. Wilkinson had actually had a net of roads built in the southwest, to and from Mobile - but the Spanish have them now, mostly. Getting access to some of the south-flowing rivers so goods can be exported through Spanish ports (with occasionally bribeable officials) instead of British New Orleans will be important. And building those roads also makes it a lot easier for settlers to move in. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Of course, the military use of roads is also considered. While there was no time to do anything about it in the war of 1812, conflict with Spain (and Britain) in the south seems entirely likely at some point. If the army can't move goods and supplies south or travel east-west then the US concedes the war before it starts. More immediately, the network can be used to 'pacify' Indians if it is necessary. This is yet another cogent reason for expanding southern roads. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]By the time that US federal finances are in shape to do much more investing in transportation, a lot of the funds move south. By that time, too, the planters are starting to gain wealth again, and their State governments and banks are too, as a result, so a fair bit of those funds are invested in various toll roads, etc., in the south. Investing in the North is still happening, of course, as Britain, Canada and the Confederacy are all seen as higher priority military targets/threats than the Spanish, and the commercial powers are still in the northern states. Federal funds are an important catalyst for this infrastructure investment, but more of the investment is private or State funded, with many projects being financed by from a combination of sources - public/private or federal/state. For instance, iOTL, the Erie canal was entirely NY state financed, here the Feds chip in some, but not most.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Railroads are built, mostly on the east coast, but with the reduced amount of British capital and the increased expense of importing British equipment, and the lack of New England industry, means that the rail net is somewhat less than OTL. The only reason it's not a LOT less is because of the priority placed on it. Most of the rail is on the east coast, with some (short) lines of primarily military importance in the west.[/FONT]


What is Britian/Canada/Spain's response to this infrastructure? OTL the Trans-Canada Railway moved south in part to mimic proposed US routes and ensure settlement occured along the border. Will a similar program be happening here?

What about new shipyards? Infrastructure? Mining developments around the great lakes?

Although the lumber industry is pretty well established by the end of the war the product being shipped is basically big squared off trees shipped to England for sawing into planks and lumber. Small scall local mills exist in some areas but are relatively rare until the mid-1800's. However silver mining occured in the mid-late 1800's in Northern Ontario so an earlier start to this industry could spark a more diversified economy (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bobevans/silver.html this is one site I know of outsite OTL Thunder Bay. Spear points 10,000 year old have been found on this site as well showing how long it has been occupied)

Question...we now have a Canada that is expanded in size and population. Does this new Canada start to be viewed as a source of troops earlier than OTL Boer War for some of the many "little wars" around the globe?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_1800–1899

Because in the words of one homesteader from back home during WW1 who left this note posted on his door.."war might be hell...but so is homesteading". I can see many unhappy veterns willing to leave their land (especially if unmarried) for a new battle if the alternative is clearing land.

Anywho..keep it up,
foresterab
[/FONT]
 
Nice updates!:)
The US revanchism may lead to another war. Increased immigration, along the improvement of infrastructure they have been doing will be the key to face their opponents, which means Canada and New England need to outpace them.
 
Nice updates!:)
The US revanchism may lead to another war. Increased immigration, along the improvement of infrastructure they have been doing will be the key to face their opponents, which means Canada and New England need to outpace them.

Archangel

Very likely but with the greater size, territorially and demographically of Canada and mistrust between the US and its neighbours I could see Canada at least achieving that, or at least enough for them to hold until the cavarly arrives from Britain.

Steve
 
dathi

Interesting developments in the US and sound pretty likely. A few questions.

a) Who's buying all this cotton the south is producting? Historically I think Britain was the overwhelming market but the US might be less willing to trade so freely with their greatest rival, although they don't really have much choice. Latter on when the US started building their own textile industry behind tariff walls this was mainly in New England. [Which had the technical base and finances, plus a suitable climate with some water power]. Could be a source of future conflict that will be more significant this time around when the northern industrialists want tariffs to protect their infant industries as the south will have more influence this time around.

b) Is Haiti, a black republic/dictatorship [depending on how things are going], based around a successful slave rebellion that comfortable an ally to the US?

c) What sort of time period is the summary going up to? I was a bit surprised to see railways start to appear as that sounds like the mid-late 30's at least I would have thought? Also, presuming that the relations with Britain aren't too icy I would have thought that Britain is still willing to invest in US railways. Although probably at an higher interest rate and also it might be that the US is unwilling to allow too much British economic influence.

If Britain has a lesser role in the development of the US economy this don't just mean that is smaller. It presumably also means that the funds are going elsewhere. Some at least will go into a larger Canada but might be greater investment in other areas. Probably mostly Latin America and India perhaps?

I think you will need to consider the butterflies in Europe as they will be fairly substantial. It's still overwhelmingly the most important centre of power, finance and knowledge in the world so events there will affect everywhere, including N America. If by no other way than the effects on Britain as, barring a full scale US attack on Canada/Louisiana, events in Europe will take up much more attention in London than those in N America.

Thanks again for the update.:)

Steve
 
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