Canada Wank (YACW)

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Politics and Polities in British North America

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Politics and Polities in British North America[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]With the winning of 'The War of 1812', reorganization of the new and old territories within British North America needs to happen.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Several things are clear. 1) All lands in British North America, from Bermuda to Newfoundland to Canada to Louisiana are headed by the Viceroy appointed at the King's pleasure. 2) 'Canada' needs to be reorganized 3) everyone east of Lower Canada isn't Canada. After that, it starts getting fuzzy.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]After some politicking, it is decided to let the Eastern Provinces of the empire stay on their own. They have no great desire to unite with each other, let alone with Canada, so they maintain their legislatures under their own (crown appointed) governors reporting to the Viceroy.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]There is discussion about what to do with the old Louisiana Purchase, but clearly Louisiana itself is to distant to be ruled as part of Canada, and equally clearly places like Wisconsin ARE close enough. What to do about Missouri, though... Hmmm...[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Canada now consists of Lower Canada (often called Quebec), Upper Canada (sometimes called Ontario), and Canada West (usually called Michigan – especially by the remaining American settlers there). Given the recent war, where the whole area (+the Indian protectorate) was essentially one theatre, it only seems reasonable to unite the provinces into one larger Dominion of Canada. Each province will have their own legislature with their own lieutenant governor, and each will have their representation in the Dominion Parliament. Plans were well under way for a 4 province Canada (including Canada South, the Protectorate), when Tecumseh pointed out loudly and forcefully that his people were supposed to be independent, and have sovereignty over their own land – that was what THEY fought the war for. Yes, it's a Protectorate – they can't stand up to the US on their own, and yes, they see some sense in being under the Viceroy, BUT THEY ARE NOT PART OF CANADA. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]After extended discussion, a typically Canadian fudge is agreed on. The Confederacy is under the Viceroy. If the Governor General of Canada should be a different person than the Viceroy, then they report to both (however it is only the Viceroy, not the Governor-General who can veto Confederacy laws). The Confederacy has a token representation in Parliament – but is not bound by most Parliamentary laws and rulings, and can vote on most, but not all of Parliamentary votes. (Most... let's keep the courts busy) They are subject to rulings by the Supreme Court of Canada (a new institution created at the same time as the new Parliament). Also, the Confederacy has a watching brief over its peoples who reside in Canada (see above).[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The Viceroy acts as Governor-General for Canada – and if the duties should be split between two people, then the Governor-General reports to the Viceroy.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The new territories of Canada will have some representation in (the Canadian) Parliament, and some internal self government, depending on how organized and populous they are. They also are required to make formal allowance for allied Indian representation, but details are open to negotiation. Native groups also get formal representation in the Canada West=Michigan legislature.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Missouri is attached to Canada, under the Viceroy, in an arrangement that is both like and unlike what the Confederacy has. At the moment, it is the largest of the new territories, and is still under direct rule/ martial law as some much of the population (almost all of it, to start with) are or were US citizens. One reason for the looser connexion is that Missouri is rather far from the rest of Canada. The reason it's attached to Canada, not Louisiana, is that the conquering and settlement ran on communication lines up the Illinois river through the Great Lakes to Canada. The reason it's part of a larger colony is that It's too small and isolated and close to the US to stand alone. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Louisiana province takes in most of OTL's Louisiana (some of the bits east of the Mississippi are part of Spanish West Florida), and extends north (OTL's Arkansas) to the Missouri border and then west to wherever the border with Spanish Mexico/New Spain is. Louisiana has its own (crown appointed) governor, and once rule from London/martial law is lifted, it will become its own province like e.g. Nova Scotia – under the Viceroy, but with no ties to Canada or her Governor-General.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]While the crown appointed governors have veto power over their respective assemblies (whether they be called legislature, assembly or parliament), and have some directive power, the most of the day to day power is held by the head of each assembly. Due to French influence, the usual term for such of head is 'premier' (short for premier ministre - first minister or prime minister). The phrase “prime minister” is reserved (by some) for the head of Government in London, although others are happy to use it for the local office.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Nominally, Rupert's Land (that's all lands draining into Hudson's Bay, and includes OTL Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, northern Ontario and Quebec, and most of the Northwest Territories and Nunavut) and Oregon country (OTL OR, WA, BC) ought to report to the Viceroy, too, as they are part of British North America, but their lines of communication are so very far from Canada, that that is mostly a dead letter. (Actually, in 1817 someone in London says 'Hey, shouldn't these guys report to the Viceroy', and after some discussion, an annual report is made to the Viceroy from those places, but there is a distinct understanding that he shouldn't try pretend he rules them.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Similarly, the governors of Newfoundland and Bermuda send copies of their reports to the Viceroy but mostly otherwise ignore him.[/FONT]
 
Dathi

Like most aspect of government its going to be messy and awkward.;)

One question however? I thought the term dominion was something pulled from the bible in 1867 to name a unified Canadian confederation. In large part because there was a design not to offend the powerful neighbour to the south by using the title kingdom.

If there was a unified government established at this time would they use the term dominion? Or kingdom or something else. I couldn't see either the Canadians or the British being that inclined to both too much about the feeling of the US currently.

Steve
 
Dathi

Like most aspect of government its going to be messy and awkward.;)

One question however? I thought the term dominion was something pulled from the bible in 1867 to name a unified Canadian confederation. In large part because there was a design not to offend the powerful neighbour to the south by using the title kingdom.

If there was a unified government established at this time would they use the term dominion? Or kingdom or something else. I couldn't see either the Canadians or the British being that inclined to both too much about the feeling of the US currently.

Steve
Very true. However, I think that the people at the time iTTL don't think that *Canada is big enough to be a kingdom yet. Going for the OTL 'Dominion' was, quite admittedly, a cheap cop-out. Remember that 'Kingdom' wasn't proposed until 1867, when the new Canada was much bigger than this one. So, e.g. when the United Province of Canada was formed in 1841, there was no question of calling it a Kingdom...

In other words - just wait.

(When a neighbouring territory becomes a Duchy, we'll see more titled names for our various colonies....)
 
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Let's try this.

Maroon (dark red/purple)=Rupert's Land
Orange=Protectorate
Red=Canada
Light green=various atlantic colonies (NS, NB, PEI, Newfoundland)
Salmon=Territories of Canada
Light Pink=Missouri (sort of part of Canada)
Purple=Louisiana
Yellow=Spanish
Green= New England
Blue=US

Protectorate/US border not exact.

Is this what you guys wanted?

ENA-colonies.png
 
With the age of steamboats about to hit, Missouri will increasingly become easier to garrison from New Orleans up the Mississippi rather than Montréal up the Great Lakes. Also, the livelihood of the people there will become more and more tied to the river trade, so it's more likely to eventually become a part of Louisiana.
 
With the age of steamboats about to hit, Missouri will increasingly become easier to garrison from New Orleans up the Mississippi rather than Montréal up the Great Lakes. Also, the livelihood of the people there will become more and more tied to the river trade, so it's more likely to eventually become a part of Louisiana.
Hmm... there will certainly be a (growing) constituency for that move. OTOH, maybe they think they can maintain more autonomy/self control if their connexions are to Canada than to Louisiana?

Heh. Maybe the political parties there are Canadians and Louisianans:)

Let me think about that.
 
Slavery Backlash – A story of British Louisiana

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]A guest contribution by [/FONT]RPW@Cy (mildly edited)


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Slavery Backlash – A story of British Louisiana[/FONT]
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Caleb Jones and his brother Seth prided themselves on being two of the best slave catchers in Wilkinson County. He looked over his shoulder at the runaway and his family tied to the saddle of Seth’s horse and grinned happily at the thought of the reward waiting for him. Being distracted, he was almost thrown when his horse shied suddenly.
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Caleb got the beast under control and grimaced suddenly as he saw why it had taken fright. A grizzled, middle-aged black man in a tattered red coat had appeared from nowhere. Caleb reached for his horsewhip. “Out of my way, boy!” He snarled, raising the whip.
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“[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Ah, Caleb...” He heard Seth say in a warning tone of voice. Four more black men stepped out of the bushes, all armed. Two were pointing their guns at him, the other two at Seth.
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“[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Ah think you’d better get off that there horse, Massa!” The first black man said, his face split by a grin that showed absolutely no sense of humour.
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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]As Caleb and Seth dismounted, the newcomers were already cutting free the runaways. First Seth, then Caleb had their hands tied in their turn and were tied behind the horses.
......
Major Robert Blount, in addition to farming his own lands was magistrate of Ross Parish, approximately five hundred square miles of barely settled lands in eastern Louisiana, close to the border. In truth his duties were not onerous, consisting mainly of riding a circuit of the outlying farms and villages once a month or so dealing the usual disputes of country life and enjoying the hospitality he was always offered. He particularly enjoyed his visits to Jonathan Carter’s farm – the man’s homemade cider was worth the journey in itself.
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As luck would have it, as he rode up the path an unusual spectacle presented itself. Jonathan, his brother and their sons and farmhands were gathered in a circle around two white men standing with their arms tied around a tree trunk. As he got closer, he saw there were whips in the black men's hands and the whites' shirts were ripped down, baring their backs.
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“[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I say! What’s going on here?”
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“[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]They’re a-gonna whip us!” One of the tied-up men cried. Americans, Blount thought, a suspicion forming in his mind.
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“[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Jonathan?” He said, turning to his old sergeant.
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“[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]They’d tied these folks up and were dragging them behind their horses Major Ross, Suh.” Jonathan said, pointing at a family of four Blount didn’t recognise. Blount dismounted and walked over to the newcomers.
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“[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]They hit them, Suh.” All four – even the twelve year old girl – had whip marks on their backs.
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“[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]They were runaways! We were only doing our job!” One of the men on horseback cried.
Blount did not turn away from inspecting the wounds. “When you crossed the ridgeline 10 miles north, you had already entered British territory.” He said flatly. The man on horseback went silent. Blount went back to his horse.
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“[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I’m afraid I can’t stay for dinner, Jonathan. I’m running late and have to be at the Thibault farm before nightfall. Please give my best wishes to Matilda. Remember, only as many lashes as their victims had – and only count the fresh ones. You know the rules. Have your boy Robert write up a report and bring it by with one of their horses some time next week.”
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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]He mounted his horse and started to ride away. “You can’t leave! You’re a white man, just like us!” Caleb Jones screamed. Blount stopped, and turned in his saddle. “I’m British, just like them.” was all he said, before riding off. The screams behind him were suddenly joined by the sound of a horse whip hitting flesh. Major Robert Blount, 1st West India Regiment (Rtd.) did not look back as he rode up the lane. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][Editor's note: punishment for crossing the border with malign intent – confiscation of belongings. Punishment for treatment of slaves – what they did to the slaves. (Pity the slaver who castrates one of his victims.) Punishment for kidnapping, rape, etc. is usually ignored, as a death sentence requires the slavers to be tried formally by the magistrate at the courthouse, etc. Since these men are receiving the number of lashes they gave to twice as many victims, and then being dumped at the border bleeding and bruised, they might well not make it back home alive anyway. When the slavers realize that the only reason they WEREN'T hung was 'cause they weren't considered worth the effort...][/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]A guest contribution by [/FONT]RPW@Cy (mildly edited)

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]He mounted his horse and started to ride away. “You can’t leave! You’re a white man, just like us!” Caleb Jones screamed. Blount stopped, and turned in his saddle. “I’m British, just like them.” was all he said, before riding off. The screams behind him were suddenly joined by the sound of a horse whip hitting flesh. Major Robert Blount, 1st West India Regiment (Rtd.) did not look back as he rode up the lane. [/FONT]

Great exchange.:D:D Not sure that the white authorities would be that strong on the issue of protecting escaped slaves given that presumably slavery is still active in the empire. However would like to think so. If nothing else I can see a fair number of loyal citizens being added to the empire.:D

Steve
 
Very true. However, I think that the people at the time iTTL don't think that *Canada is big enough to be a kingdom yet. Going for the OTL 'Dominion' was, quite admittedly, a cheap cop-out. Remember that 'Kingdom' wasn't proposed until 1867, when the new Canada was much bigger than this one. So, e.g. when the United Province of Canada was formed in 1841, there was no question of calling it a Kingdom...

In other words - just wait.

(When a neighbouring territory becomes a Duchy, we'll see more titled names for our various colonies....)

Dathi

Less thinking about it being called a kingdom, as probably too small in population yet. More concerned with why I thought Dominion was used OTL and hence dubious about it turning up now and here.

Interesting that comment about the neighbouring duchy. Looking forward to finding out more.:D

Thanks for the map.

Steve
 
Great exchange.:D:D Not sure that the white authorities would be that strong on the issue of protecting escaped slaves given that presumably slavery is still active in the empire. However would like to think so. If nothing else I can see a fair number of loyal citizens being added to the empire.:D

Steve
Slave trade act of 1807 prohibits slave trade – sale or transfer of slaves from any part of Africa or the Americas or West Indies into British territory. (I'm not sure if you can sell from one British Island to the next.)

Slavery is not yet outlawed, but the moment a slave crosses the border he/she is free. I haven't yet written the post yet, but slavery, while still legal, will be on its way out fast in Louisiana.

This Major Blount probably thinks much better of HIS blacks than others, but wouldn't let his daughter marry one, would be my guess. OTOH, he's seen what they can do in battle, and worked closely with them and knows that at least his men are far more capable than many give blacks credit for. That's my guess, RPW@Cy created the character.

At a wild guess, Blount might consider (at least his) blacks about as capable as an Irishman, or some of those dagos, but certainly not up to the level of an Englishman, let alone gentry.
 
Slave trade act of 1807 prohibits slave trade – sale or transfer of slaves from any part of Africa or the Americas or West Indies into British territory. (I'm not sure if you can sell from one British Island to the next.)

Interesting. Not sure what the legal situation would be where the law-breakers are slaves fleeing their 'legitimate' owners. Suspect the W Indian planters would be opposed to anything which set a prescedant that weakened their own position. They are fighting a rearguard and, fortunately a losing battle but won't be totally over yet. Although the performance of black forces in the American war will help.

Slavery is not yet outlawed, but the moment a slave crosses the border he/she is free. I haven't yet written the post yet, but slavery, while still legal, will be on its way out fast in Louisiana.

Be interesting to see that. Unless the colony has the right to make its own laws on the issue of slavery. Might then have things over there pretty quickly.


This Major Blount probably thinks much better of HIS blacks than others, but wouldn't let his daughter marry one, would be my guess. OTOH, he's seen what they can do in battle, and worked closely with them and knows that at least his men are far more capable than many give blacks credit for. That's my guess, RPW@Cy created the character.

At a wild guess, Blount might consider (at least his) blacks about as capable as an Irishman, or some of those dagos, but certainly not up to the level of an Englishman, let alone gentry.

I think this could well be a good approximation of the likely viewpoint of a lot of the British who had fought with black troops.

Steve
 
Interesting. Not sure what the legal situation would be where the law-breakers are slaves fleeing their 'legitimate' owners. Suspect the W Indian planters would be opposed to anything which set a prescedant that weakened their own position. They are fighting a rearguard and, fortunately a losing battle but won't be totally over yet. Although the performance of black forces in the American war will help.
West Indies slaves can't escape off their island (at least easily). That's the primary difference.

Be interesting to see that. Unless the colony has the right to make its own laws on the issue of slavery. Might then have things over there pretty quickly.
Upper Canada did by legislative action
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Canada said:
Finally the Assembly passed the Act Against Slavery that legislated the gradual abolition of slavery: no slaves could be imported; slaves already in the province would remain enslaved until death, no new slaves could be brought into Upper Canada, and children born to female slaves would be slaves but must be freed at age 25. To discourage manumission, the Act required the master to provide security that the former slave would not become a public charge. The compromise Slave Act of 1793 stands as the only attempt by any Canadian legislature to act against slavery.
Lower Canada did by judicial action
same wiki article said:
By 1797, courts began to rule in favour of slaves who complained of poor treatment from their owners.[9] These developments were resisted in Lower Canada until 1803, when Chief Justice William Osgoode ruled that slavery was not compatible with British law.

I think this could well be a good approximation of the likely viewpoint of a lot of the British who had fought with black troops.

Steve
Rather better than many, IMO, but well within the norm, I'd guess.
 
With the age of steamboats about to hit, Missouri will increasingly become easier to garrison from New Orleans up the Mississippi rather than Montréal up the Great Lakes. Also, the livelihood of the people there will become more and more tied to the river trade, so it's more likely to eventually become a part of Louisiana.

that would be logical, but if canals linking the Upper Mississippi with the Upper lakes then that would become moot. but that is still about a decade off
Chicago to the Upper Illinois and thence to the Mississippi. It would be shorter than the Erie, or at least comparable...
But the first Welland or something comparable would need to be built first to by pass Niagara Falls. By the time such could be built, Missouri could well have migrated into the economic hinterland of New Orleans instead.

and actually at this point... I suspect Michigan would be governed directly as part of Upper Canada West. The entire basin of the Great lakes being technically the Upper country. Population of the two parts would be closer but Lower Canada should still have the edge in population. there are specific regions why the provinces were united in the '30's in their unequal relationship.
This hasn't occurred and if they were united now those of UC still largely English and Loyalist, though with significant French Royalists in places, would still fear being dominated by the largely Catholic and Fr. Canadian LC. Something that would never fly politically in the context of those years unless it was some kind of shot gun wedding. Westminster is never going to force that union unless its on terms acceptable to UC. So it depends on the shape of the political structure. It is going to take some doing on your part. Even in a federal structure, LC would still dominate politically, even if you gave equal representation to the two halves in some kind of upper chamber, that chamber would need to have significant influence in the Dominion.

Mind you, on the subject of Canals... with BNA controlling a larger length of the St. lawrence.. is the strategic need for the Rideau still there.. or will those funds be diverted instead to upgrades on the Upper St. Lawrence and diverted to an earlier building of something across the Niagara penn.
 
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that would be logical, but if canals linking the Upper Mississippi with the Upper lakes then that would become moot. but that is still about a decade off
Chicago to the Upper Illinois and thence to the Mississippi. It would be shorter than the Erie, or at least comparable...
But the first Welland or something comparable would need to be built first to by pass Niagara Falls. By the time such could be built, Missouri could well have migrated into the economic hinterland of New Orleans instead.
Ooo.. A new poster, welcome!

Next post up will address canals and transportation. The need has been demonstrated by the war. We are NOT going to wait for William Merritt to decide he needs more water for his mills.... (seriously, that was one of the major impetuses for the first Welland canal OTL)
and actually at this point... I suspect Michigan would be governed directly as part of Upper Canada West. The entire basin of the Great lakes being technically the Upper country. Population of the two parts would be closer but Lower Canada should still have the edge in population. there are specific regions why the provinces were united in the '30's in their unequal relationship.
the new areas are growing fast. TTL's Canada West = Michigan is, indeed, not really big enough to be a province yet, but it's growing FAST, so they're just ahead of the curve a wee bit.
This hasn't occurred and if they were united now those of UC still largely English and Loyalist, though with significant French Royalists in places, would still fear being dominated by the largely Catholic and Fr. Canadian LC. Something that would never fly politically in the context of those years unless it was some kind of shot gun wedding. Westminster is never going to force that union unless its on terms acceptable to UC. So it depends on the shape of the political structure. It is going to take some doing on your part. Even in a federal structure, LC would still dominate politically, even if you gave equal representation to the two halves in some kind of upper chamber, that chamber would need to have significant influence in the Dominion.
Ummm.... iTTL, UC is only some 60% Anglo, and the Family Compact isn't running things - or it's a different one. Also, the massive immigration that turned Ontario into an adjunct of the Orange Lodge hasn't happened yet, and, however much they try, they won't succeed. I think UC would rather have a second not entirely French province to help balance the one huge one, than try to bulk themselves up to do the same thing. Or at least that enough feel that way that it's not just Westminster shoving things down the Canadians throats. At least that's my take on the matter.

Also, the French (Royalist, especially, but also Canadien) population is more 'loyalist' than iOTL. The Canadien opinion has shifted 1) due to infection from the French Royalists - especially the number of Royalist priests preaching in Canadien pulpits 2) the more successful war, and the better recognized Canadian efforts have given more Canadian (including Canadien) pride in the country

Also, calling the Anglos in UC 'Loyalist' is not very accurate. Actually at that time, both iOTL and iTTL, most of the Anglos in UC were very lukewarm former Americans. Less than half of the Anglos were UELs, most were farmers come for the land, as far as I can tell. So 'Loyalist' Anglos is NOT the case (the francophones, mostly Royalists) are far more loyalist, actually.


Mind you, on the subject of Canals... with BNA controlling a larger length of the St. lawrence.. is the strategic need for the Rideau still there.. or will those funds be diverted instead to upgrades on the Upper St. Lawrence and diverted to an earlier building of something across the Niagara penn.
Rideau is a back-up as much of the upper St. Lawrence is desperately vulnerable to US attack, if they got their act in gear. However, the immediate need is for the lakes to be connected as quickly as possible, so it's on hold for now. There are probably surveyors looking for the best route, 'tho.

One minor change from OTL is that Britain/Canada controls both sides of the St. Lawrence the ENTIRE way. Of course the new territory's a very thin strip in places and the US could reach the shore 'easily' in event of war. OT3H, Canada holds Plattsburgh which is (one of) the easiest invasion route(s), so the St. Lawrence is a little more secure than OTL.
 
first of all, many thanks for Dathi for running with my little vignette:)

Great exchange.:D:D Not sure that the white authorities would be that strong on the issue of protecting escaped slaves given that presumably slavery is still active in the empire. However would like to think so. If nothing else I can see a fair number of loyal citizens being added to the empire.:D
Steve

The people protecting the escaped slaves here are men who for the most part were slaves themselves only a few years ago (and being a slave on a West Indian sugar plantation was a particularly miserable existence) so can be presumed to have strong views on the subject.

The authorities may or may not think much of the escaped slaves themselves, but they will have strong views on armed men crossing the border kidnapping people off British territory and attempting to drag them back, especially if British subjects are injured or killed in the process (not all slave hunters will be as easily taken as Caleb and Seth, and not all posses as well organised as Jonathan's).

This Major Blount probably thinks much better of HIS blacks than others, but wouldn't let his daughter marry one, would be my guess. OTOH, he's seen what they can do in battle, and worked closely with them and knows that at least his men are far more capable than many give blacks credit for. That's my guess, RPW@Cy created the character.

At a wild guess, Blount might consider (at least his) blacks about as capable as an Irishman, or some of those dagos, but certainly not up to the level of an Englishman, let alone gentry.

Exactly so, with one proviso - if he was back in England, being minor gentry it is extremely unlikely that Blount would have allowed his daughter to marry one of the local peasants there either. It's a class thing even more than a race one. He probably sees them as being above the Irish peasantry and below the English peasantry in the scheme of things - honest, hardworking and loyal and overall much to be preferred to the likes of Caleb and Seth.
 
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