Map Thread V
- Thread starter Ian the Admin
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Well, now that it is clear that no one is intrested in my Texas TL, I'm going to be releasing my world maps I made for the series. Keep in mind some of them are still technicaly WIPs.
This one is from 1915, right before The Great European War, which starts for reasons alot like our WWI. I tried to make a different Balkan conflict, but once again, it is Serbia and A-H starting it
. On the bright side, the war itself is vastly different, if it is still a close starter.
Side notes
1) The Ottoman Colapse was due to an early recognition that Russia would be a good counter-balence to Germany. Russia took advantage of that quite well.
2) Germany's influence is smaller then OTL, whilst France and Britian have a larger influence. However, there is also a larger investment in South America.
3) Smaller countries have less influence then OTL. This world is for the big hitters only so to speak.
This one is from 1915, right before The Great European War, which starts for reasons alot like our WWI. I tried to make a different Balkan conflict, but once again, it is Serbia and A-H starting it
. On the bright side, the war itself is vastly different, if it is still a close starter.Side notes
1) The Ottoman Colapse was due to an early recognition that Russia would be a good counter-balence to Germany. Russia took advantage of that quite well.
2) Germany's influence is smaller then OTL, whilst France and Britian have a larger influence. However, there is also a larger investment in South America.
3) Smaller countries have less influence then OTL. This world is for the big hitters only so to speak.
A Habsburg-Ottoman wank, from a somewhat unlikely TL where, like the US and USSR in Jerry Pournelle's "Codominium" books, they join forces to split the world up between themselves. Based on something from here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ahtg
Currently, with roughly 1900 technology (steam engines, telegraphs, trains, etc.) the Habsburgs and the Ottomans are cooperating to try and hold their vast territories together: the Ottomans rule all they did OTL plus Morocco, southern Russia, Persia, Siberia, and much of India, while the Habsburgs rule the British Isle (partly autonomous under a cadet branch of the family as a sop to English xenophobia), Iberia, Italy, most of Germany, almost all of the Americas, Australasia, and a lot of China and East Asia. It’s a baroque, florid, and rather decadent world, with Enlightened Despotism being the last world in politics and one can hardly go out without tripping over the secret police. France is fragmented and kept so, while Scandinavia and N. Russia form a cold, isolated outpost of – well, not freedom, but at least managing to stay out from under the thumb of the House of Osman or the Habsburg dynasty.
Both Empires have a lot on their plate – corruption of regional governors (“Heaven and the Emperor/Sultan are far away”), rebellion (Shi’a in Iran and Iraq, apocalyptic Buddhists in the deep interior of China, slaves in the Americas), discontent within the ruling classes themselves (great mercantile and industrial dynasties within the Ottoman realms, sick of government theft, and religiously enthusiastic nobles in the Habsburg realm, seeking a “purification” in the worldly and corrupt Catholic church), and famine in the more inaccessible and poorer parts of their Empires. The Emperor worries about N. America, a patchwork of Iberian colonies, Native American protectorates, and Gascon and Irish settlements, independent-minded and turbulent, and possibly conspiring with the Scandinavians in what is OTL Quebec and Newfoundland. There is unrest in Poland, deliberately kept a headless nobleman’s oligarchy by the Ottomans and the Habsburgs: could it be Muscovite or Scandinavian meddling? And then there is modern science, with its disquieting revelations: the teaching of evolution is already banned in both empires, and the religious are grumbling about this “millions and millions of suns” nonsense on the part of astronomers.
Bruce
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ahtg
Currently, with roughly 1900 technology (steam engines, telegraphs, trains, etc.) the Habsburgs and the Ottomans are cooperating to try and hold their vast territories together: the Ottomans rule all they did OTL plus Morocco, southern Russia, Persia, Siberia, and much of India, while the Habsburgs rule the British Isle (partly autonomous under a cadet branch of the family as a sop to English xenophobia), Iberia, Italy, most of Germany, almost all of the Americas, Australasia, and a lot of China and East Asia. It’s a baroque, florid, and rather decadent world, with Enlightened Despotism being the last world in politics and one can hardly go out without tripping over the secret police. France is fragmented and kept so, while Scandinavia and N. Russia form a cold, isolated outpost of – well, not freedom, but at least managing to stay out from under the thumb of the House of Osman or the Habsburg dynasty.
Both Empires have a lot on their plate – corruption of regional governors (“Heaven and the Emperor/Sultan are far away”), rebellion (Shi’a in Iran and Iraq, apocalyptic Buddhists in the deep interior of China, slaves in the Americas), discontent within the ruling classes themselves (great mercantile and industrial dynasties within the Ottoman realms, sick of government theft, and religiously enthusiastic nobles in the Habsburg realm, seeking a “purification” in the worldly and corrupt Catholic church), and famine in the more inaccessible and poorer parts of their Empires. The Emperor worries about N. America, a patchwork of Iberian colonies, Native American protectorates, and Gascon and Irish settlements, independent-minded and turbulent, and possibly conspiring with the Scandinavians in what is OTL Quebec and Newfoundland. There is unrest in Poland, deliberately kept a headless nobleman’s oligarchy by the Ottomans and the Habsburgs: could it be Muscovite or Scandinavian meddling? And then there is modern science, with its disquieting revelations: the teaching of evolution is already banned in both empires, and the religious are grumbling about this “millions and millions of suns” nonsense on the part of astronomers.
Bruce
One question: why is technology frozen at 1900-level? Besides, you know, that it adds to the flavor of the setting and is generally awesome?
One question: why is technology frozen at 1900-level? Besides, you know, that it adds to the flavor of the setting and is generally awesome?
It's not frozen, just slower progress than OTL due to Europe being controlled by a rather dissent-intolerant absolute monarchy.
Bruce
Here is the world in 250 BC.
There are 5 main Points of Departure.
1: Hanno the navigator sails slightly more westwards, not enough to discover the new world but goes on those looping expeditions *similliar to Da Gama* to observe outward currents, and discovers some Atlantic Islands and claims them for Carthage. He also continues and his description of African mountins leads many to say he made it to Mount Kamerun, so I will give carthage an enclave there. He then continues to the tip of Africa and founds one last Carthaginian settlement on the spot of Modern Day Cape Town and dies shortly after.
2: During the Phyricc Wars *which I will have to rename or change the defenition* Phyruss accepted the offer of the Throne of Macedonia, creating an indistinguishable union between Eprius and Macedon. This completely removes Rome as a threat. Since he does not come to the aid of Syracuse against Carthage relations and amiable between the two
3: Earlier Macedon *after Alexander* does not expand southwards into greece due to more thracian and illyrian incursions in the north and consolidates there more. This leads to continued greek influence and colonization.
4: A more sucessful Mithradates pushes Armenians off of the Black Sea Coast and consolidates and doesn't go into fruitless wars with the Selecuids. This does make the Selecuids stronger too and the Parthians will finish their conquest of Iran at about 180 BC, about 40 years behind OTL.
5: The millennium stalemate in Korea is broken with some hand waving and a good general from the Kingdom of Goguryeo conquering the rest of Korea and expanding the holdings in Manchuria to its borders you see. This will allow me to have 2 Asian Super-Powers fighting for dominance.
--------
Some Notes:
I am well aware of the fact that several states on this map *hasua, yunnan, maya* have not unified yet, and while infighting was common between the smaller lords and what have you of these areas they generally bound themselves togather to fight foreigners and it is often what created these states in the first place, so if you see places fitting that description that means I either want to populate the map or I have a plan for them.
On the maps I will NOT label every individual greek city, simply because I will have to make a new key every map and that is really annoying, plus some will disappear to foreign powers and such. You can basically assume it revolves around the main city in the Area. Athens, Sparta, Pergamnom, Malissa, Tarrabo, ect...
I will describe the cities in posts as they get further into Gaul.
The world in 250 BC:
EDIT : Photobucket for some reason made the map much smaller then it originally was....
Same Timeline 150 years later.
Epiurdon *Union between Macedon and Epirus* experiences a time of troubles. Thessaly is in a near state of constant rebellion and the frontiers are constantly being kicked open by Dacians , Sarmatians, and other tribes.
That said Epiurdon has a massive military, and is able to hold itself togather but doesn't gain any land.
In Pontus Mithradates descendants die, and Atrzuk the Great in Armenia rises, conquering portions of Sarmatia and the realms of the Cimmerians, and then moved south and secured his border with the Selecuids and Parthians, and moved west to destroy Pontus and retake their homeland .
Armenia fails in destroying pontus and Pontus merely surrenders the un-profitable land to the east and turns west.
The state of Deskylion is open and exposed, and in a royal marriage incident with the murder of the King claims the throne, and Mithradates the IV takes control of much of Western Anatollia.
Pergamnom and Epiurdon, who is still dealing with Thessaly and Barbarians, move in. They lose.
Pontus, which showed itself inept during the last war, did manage to outflank Pergamnom in a massive strategic movement, forcing them to secede the southern Flank of the Hellespont.
After several crippling battles and with supply across the Hellespont difficult Epiurdon secedes control of the region of Southern Thrace.
In the North the Cimmerian Bosporans over-extend themselves, and are eventually attacked by Sarmatia, Armenia, Dacia, and Epiurdon.f
The Greek technology of the Cimmerians is more then useful to the Sarmatians...
In gaul colonization by the greeks continues, and after securing the entirty of Gaul a greek state is set up across the Rhine connecting to the North Sea.
Despite numerous half hearted attempts to subject the Suebi and Frisians none prove successful, and as an indirect result of this a colony on Brittania is settled and it expands rapidly in the south.
In the far east Maghada consolidates itself and pushes the Tamil to Ceylon. Goguryeo begins to establish itself in Japan while the Zhou also do the same in an effort to avoid their rivals having an advantage.
Over-seas Carthage fights for its Enclaves on the continent, and its sailours have rounded the tip of Africa, discovered Madagascar *were a settlement was established* and up the red sea to Egypt, and back through it to India. This gives Carthage , with control of the pillars of Hercules , a very lucrative trade route, and Carthaginian sailours begin to wander what may lie westwards...
The world 100 BC
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/668/world100bc.png
There are 5 main Points of Departure.
1: Hanno the navigator sails slightly more westwards, not enough to discover the new world but goes on those looping expeditions *similliar to Da Gama* to observe outward currents, and discovers some Atlantic Islands and claims them for Carthage. He also continues and his description of African mountins leads many to say he made it to Mount Kamerun, so I will give carthage an enclave there. He then continues to the tip of Africa and founds one last Carthaginian settlement on the spot of Modern Day Cape Town and dies shortly after.
2: During the Phyricc Wars *which I will have to rename or change the defenition* Phyruss accepted the offer of the Throne of Macedonia, creating an indistinguishable union between Eprius and Macedon. This completely removes Rome as a threat. Since he does not come to the aid of Syracuse against Carthage relations and amiable between the two
3: Earlier Macedon *after Alexander* does not expand southwards into greece due to more thracian and illyrian incursions in the north and consolidates there more. This leads to continued greek influence and colonization.
4: A more sucessful Mithradates pushes Armenians off of the Black Sea Coast and consolidates and doesn't go into fruitless wars with the Selecuids. This does make the Selecuids stronger too and the Parthians will finish their conquest of Iran at about 180 BC, about 40 years behind OTL.
5: The millennium stalemate in Korea is broken with some hand waving and a good general from the Kingdom of Goguryeo conquering the rest of Korea and expanding the holdings in Manchuria to its borders you see. This will allow me to have 2 Asian Super-Powers fighting for dominance.
--------
Some Notes:
I am well aware of the fact that several states on this map *hasua, yunnan, maya* have not unified yet, and while infighting was common between the smaller lords and what have you of these areas they generally bound themselves togather to fight foreigners and it is often what created these states in the first place, so if you see places fitting that description that means I either want to populate the map or I have a plan for them.
On the maps I will NOT label every individual greek city, simply because I will have to make a new key every map and that is really annoying, plus some will disappear to foreign powers and such. You can basically assume it revolves around the main city in the Area. Athens, Sparta, Pergamnom, Malissa, Tarrabo, ect...
I will describe the cities in posts as they get further into Gaul.
The world in 250 BC:
EDIT : Photobucket for some reason made the map much smaller then it originally was....
Same Timeline 150 years later.
Epiurdon *Union between Macedon and Epirus* experiences a time of troubles. Thessaly is in a near state of constant rebellion and the frontiers are constantly being kicked open by Dacians , Sarmatians, and other tribes.
That said Epiurdon has a massive military, and is able to hold itself togather but doesn't gain any land.
In Pontus Mithradates descendants die, and Atrzuk the Great in Armenia rises, conquering portions of Sarmatia and the realms of the Cimmerians, and then moved south and secured his border with the Selecuids and Parthians, and moved west to destroy Pontus and retake their homeland .
Armenia fails in destroying pontus and Pontus merely surrenders the un-profitable land to the east and turns west.
The state of Deskylion is open and exposed, and in a royal marriage incident with the murder of the King claims the throne, and Mithradates the IV takes control of much of Western Anatollia.
Pergamnom and Epiurdon, who is still dealing with Thessaly and Barbarians, move in. They lose.
Pontus, which showed itself inept during the last war, did manage to outflank Pergamnom in a massive strategic movement, forcing them to secede the southern Flank of the Hellespont.
After several crippling battles and with supply across the Hellespont difficult Epiurdon secedes control of the region of Southern Thrace.
In the North the Cimmerian Bosporans over-extend themselves, and are eventually attacked by Sarmatia, Armenia, Dacia, and Epiurdon.f
The Greek technology of the Cimmerians is more then useful to the Sarmatians...
In gaul colonization by the greeks continues, and after securing the entirty of Gaul a greek state is set up across the Rhine connecting to the North Sea.
Despite numerous half hearted attempts to subject the Suebi and Frisians none prove successful, and as an indirect result of this a colony on Brittania is settled and it expands rapidly in the south.
In the far east Maghada consolidates itself and pushes the Tamil to Ceylon. Goguryeo begins to establish itself in Japan while the Zhou also do the same in an effort to avoid their rivals having an advantage.
Over-seas Carthage fights for its Enclaves on the continent, and its sailours have rounded the tip of Africa, discovered Madagascar *were a settlement was established* and up the red sea to Egypt, and back through it to India. This gives Carthage , with control of the pillars of Hercules , a very lucrative trade route, and Carthaginian sailours begin to wander what may lie westwards...
The world 100 BC
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/668/world100bc.png
@ Axeman:
Nice maps, except for one thing. The Korean and Chinese would never be able to conquer any of the Japanese islands until the modern day.
Nice maps, except for one thing. The Korean and Chinese would never be able to conquer any of the Japanese islands until the modern day.
Why is that?
Both had substantial navies.
Both have large amounts of manpower.
In their wars against themselves they have shown themselves to be fruitless, costly, and not worth the trouble.
The Japanese had no major technological advantage at this time.
The Shogunate, or system of co-operating states and feudal lords against outside threats had not been established yet.
If anything now is a perfect time.
Reasons below.
They would rather use them against each other than a set of EXTREMELY POOR islands.
Again at this point Japan is way too poor to even warrant the use of troops on the islands. They would be better used elsewhere, like say guarding against the ever present nomadic tribes that would be beating the shit out of them on a constant basis. So why the hell would you send a LARGE number of troops to a set of piss poor islands
They have the possibility of getting MUCH more money conquering each other, rather than a set of islands that has NOTHING to offer.
Again what does Japan at this point have to offer? The islands themselves are EXTREMELY resource poor, even to this day. Why do you think that the Japanese went on their WWII conquering spree? Or another example, on the first "true" unification of Japan under Hideoshi in the early 1500's they immediately tried to CONQUER KOREA. Why? They needed cash and resources to feed and rebuild Japan after 100 years of civil wars, resources that Japan herself could not provide.
Yeah and China at this point wasn't exactly a Unitarian state either. The King of the Chinese (yes KING) at this point had to bow to the Feudal lords. The Qin Dynasty was what made the Emperor not only an office, but made him supreme. So why would a feudal lord want to send his personal troops to conquer some piss poor islands when they could be put to better use defending his estate?
There a simple reason that Japan wasn't conquered by anyone until it got nuked in the 20th Century. It was because no one gave a shit about conquering it. The Mongols only did because at that point in their history they had egos and hard-ons the size of fucking Canada and were convinced that they could take on anything under the sun, much less some tiny little islands that couldn't even get along. Of course the Divine Kamikaze proved that wrong. Why do you think they only tried twice? And why did noone revolt when they failed, as was VERY common in those days? Because NO ONE GAVE A SHIT ABOUT JAPAN!
Have you heard of Krall? If not, I beleive he will now elcome you to map hatred...
I should point out that Zhou was not a country. That was more of a cultural dynasty with the Chinese states loosely tied together. And it was not until the Qin that China was politically unified. In 250 BCE, the Middle Kingdom was in the middle of warring states period and would not be in the position to invade elsewhere. Also, despite the Japanese version of their own history, the Japanese as we know them did not even exist at the time. They are a cultural offshot of the Chinese.
Not to mention that the Historical Zhou ceased to exist even as a cultural artifact 2 centuries before the Goguryeo began to exist.
@ Axeman
I don't understand what happened to Rome in this TL. Your union of Epeiros and Makedon seems to also encompass most of the Italian Peninsula, but I don't recall why. Even with full support from the Makedonian heartland (which I doubt would be forthcoming as long as any of the Argead royal line remains alive - but maybe here Pyrrhos had them all axed), the Hellenistics would have had a hard fight to conquer that much of Italy. I doubt it would have been feasable. I also cannot see ANY Roman leader agreeing to any sort of personal union with Epeiro-Makedonia which curtailed their sovreignety in any manner. The Romans were, simply put, too prejudiced against the Greeks and Makedones to allow for such an occurance.
I don't understand what happened to Rome in this TL. Your union of Epeiros and Makedon seems to also encompass most of the Italian Peninsula, but I don't recall why. Even with full support from the Makedonian heartland (which I doubt would be forthcoming as long as any of the Argead royal line remains alive - but maybe here Pyrrhos had them all axed
), the Hellenistics would have had a hard fight to conquer that much of Italy. I doubt it would have been feasable. I also cannot see ANY Roman leader agreeing to any sort of personal union with Epeiro-Makedonia which curtailed their sovreignety in any manner. The Romans were, simply put, too prejudiced against the Greeks and Makedones to allow for such an occurance.
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