Canada Wank (YACW)

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(Hmmm.... note to self, what DID the Metis grow?)

Metis diet in most regards paralleled the local native culture. Buffalo with the Plains Cree and plains Indian Tribes, Fish and rice with woodland Cree and Ojibiwa, and what ever other native growing food sources existed. Generally very little grain farming occurred but a lot depended on whether the Metis individual associated themselves with the more traditional European, farming culture or the traditional native culture.

It is interesting that until Sir George Simpson became governor of the HBC company native brides were at least accepted (if not encouraged) for young men (usually scots) employed by the HBC. After he took control of the company the elitist the organization became creating more distrust than ever. In many cases long term HBC customers started to treat more with independent traders or American companies (yes...the Americans were involved heavily in the NWCo. and others) due to the treatment of "squaw wifes" or "country wives".

Let me know if you need more...can call the Metis guys up locally and get details if needed.
 
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Sidebar on the French settlement in Upper Canada

Sidebar on the French settlement in Upper Canada.​

First a note on terminology: I will use “French” to describe the recent royalist refugees from the French Revolutionary wars. “Anglo” will refer to English speaking settlers (mostly in Upper Canada), whether of US or British origin. “Canadien” is a French-speaking Canadian (mostly Quebecois from Lower Canada, but also any other pre-PoD French-Canadians). (Well, it doesn't include Acadians, but I don't see them entering the story in a big way.)​

Up to the beginning of the war, only 2 battalions have been raised, of about 600 men each. One, raised from people settled up and down the Thames river is La Compagnie Taimsienne, and is stationed in the west. This is the extra group that enabled the taking and holding of Ft. Wayne. The other group is based in the Niagara region and is la Compagnie Vendéienne.​

While the Upper Canadian settlers who came from the US doubt that war is coming or that the Brits could win if it did, the French hate republicanism with a passion, love their new country with as great a passion, and know from experience that war can happen in their back yards. While they've only raised 2 battalions from their numbers (that's all the government's prepared to pay for at that point), a goodly number of the older men have started drilling the young men (who were only boys when they left France), so when the need arises, there will be many more who can join the colours. And any that aren't called up will be able to defend their farms and villages if, heaven forfend, the Americans should attack. They have also started figuring out who can afford to leave their farms, who can help out their neighbors if the father is called out to war, and how best to use those resources available (both human and matériel) if the demand on them increases dramatically.​

Enough of war for the moment. Lets look at agriculture.​

The French farmers in the Niagara region quickly realized that the region was great for growing both grapes and apples, and have started vineyards and orchards as well as the usual grain and livestock.​

The French farmers all over have suffered the ravages of war, and know that the lowly potato is saviour of the peasant when armies go marching. When tensions and rumours of war start rising, they plant potatoes. The potato harvest in 1811 was larger than normal, and in 1812 they're planting them all over the place – even in uncleared woodlands. Of course, the OTHER use for potatoes is for what could, in a different place be called vodka. Here, they call it something else – their Scots and English neighbors call it 'whiskey', but it's obviously not real Scotch or Irish whiskey. The French Royalist potato farmers decide to call it, at least the good stuff that gets aged for a year or two, after their beloved royal master: Ladies and Gentleman I present you with this timeline's BOURBON WHISKEY. (NB in this timeline, the name probably predates the name for corn liquor, so the guys in Kentucky are just going to have to call theirs something else.)​

 
September/October on the western front

The Americans, being highly upset at Tecumseh's success, send punitive expeditions to destroy Indian towns – Ottawas on the Auglaize River (south of the Maumee in Ohio), Miamis at the forks of the Wabash, and Potawatamis near Elkhart. The first two were entirely successful (as OTL), the last less so, as Tecumseh's men set upon them on their return and killed many in that raiding party. [Possible, since Ft Wayne is a secure base for Tecumseh now.]


Brock and Prevost, looking at the strategic situation, know that the taking of Fort Wayne, while a wonderful opportunity, really stretches the available manpower. It took some 1200 whites and hundreds of Indians to hold the fort in the face of Harrison's counterattack, which was most of Prevost's existing force in the Detroit area. So a call goes out to raise more militia. Now that harvest's in, it's a lot easier to raise militia from among the farmers. They want a couple of categories of militia – they want an immediate body of about 1000 now to free up the regular units at Ft. Wayne (some regulars will stay to provided stiffening), and another 500 or so to supplement forces available at Niagara. They want several battalions worth ready to be called up on a moment's notice, but not yet actually activated, and they want a reserve to be training in case of emergency (such as an invasion), and/or to replace some of the active units when they have completed a term of service. When the recruiters reach the French settled areas, they are VERY pleasantly surprised to find that the locals are ahead of them for once. The 'immediate' forces march out at once and the local units get official blessing. Moreover, when the recruiters visit Anglo and Canadien farms and villages, they can say “When we visited St. Denis, a town half the size of yours, they had XX men who would join the militia, why do you think you can provide only half that number? You can do better!”​

Moreover, even in Lower Canada, the leavening of French virulent anti-republicans has made a difference. It has tilted the tone slightly from 'this is a war of our British rulers' toward 'this is our war'. Especially effective are those French priests who fill a few pulpits in Lower Canada. The difference is not huge, but more militia are raised, with rather less fuss than OTL. For the moment, the Lower Canada militia stay there.​
 
Sidebar on the French settlement in Upper Canada.

While the Upper Canadian settlers who came from the US doubt that war is coming or that the Brits could win if it did, the French hate republicanism with a passion, love their new country with as great a passion, and know from experience that war can happen in their back yards. While they've only raised 2 battalions from their numbers (that's all the government's prepared to pay for at that point), a goodly number of the older men have started drilling the young men (who were only boys when they left France), so when the need arises, there will be many more who can join the colours. And any that aren't called up will be able to defend their farms and villages if, heaven forfend, the Americans should attack. They have also started figuring out who can afford to leave their farms, who can help out their neighbors if the father is called out to war, and how best to use those resources available (both human and matériel) if the demand on them increases dramatically.​

My family (mom's side) descends from a French Soldier sent to Quebec following service in Turkey. Appartently the troops were so sick they sent them to the most non-tropic outpost France had and hence Quebec got a bunch of new blood. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carignan-Salières_Regiment

Although they showed up in the mid 1600's many families in both Lower and Upper Canada trace their roots to this military past...a good rallying cry if nothing else for the priests to emphasize as the church would have records (due to marigages/deaths etc) of these troops.
 
My family (mom's side) descends from a French Soldier sent to Quebec following service in Turkey. Appartently the troops were so sick they sent them to the most non-tropic outpost France had and hence Quebec got a bunch of new blood. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carignan-Salières_Regiment

Although they showed up in the mid 1600's many families in both Lower and Upper Canada trace their roots to this military past...a good rallying cry if nothing else for the priests to emphasize as the church would have records (due to marigages/deaths etc) of these troops.
Ooo, thanks. That's a REALLY good idea. Just wait for "Les Regiments Nouveaux de Carignan-Salières"! I think I'll have to use that.
 
Fall 1812 on the Niagara Frontier: Brock survives

Fall 1812 on the Niagara Frontier​


In the summer, NY militia Major General Stephen Van Rensselaer (a prominent Federalist) was appointed in charge of the Niagara frontier. When he got there, he found only 1000 men, shoeless, poorly equipped and unpaid.


General Brock on the Canadian side knew the state of the US forces at that time, and tried to convince Prevost that he could attack with the (OTL 2200 or so) forces he had on hand, and win a major victory. Otherwise, they could wait and have to have a much larger force to defend Canada when the US got its act together. Prevost refused.


Meanwhile, the US was starting to accumulate forces, just as Brock had feared. Dearborn pushed forward the 5th and 13th Infantry regiments of the US Army, and a brigade of new recruits under Brigadier General Alexander Smyth (regular army). Smyth reached Buffalo on 29 September, and reported to Van Rensselaer by writing (perhaps being offended at being subordinate to a MILITIA officer).


By the 2nd week of October, there were some 6300 men on the US side and 2200 on the Canadian (OTL, 2700 iTTL), about half militia on each side (OTL). Both sides were spread out along the length of the Niagara River and the Brits had to worry where the attack would come from.​
Van Rensselaer was under huge pressure to attack (militia want to go home, NY Republicans threatening to accuse him of treason, etc.), and so plans for an attack on 11 October in the morning. Unlike OTL, the first boat with all the oars DOESN'T drift off downstream, so the attack proceeds on the 11th in daylight, in a storm. Van Rensselaer could only find 13 boats, so he fills them with some ~400 men and sends them across. All land on the shore below the bluffs and prepare a beachhead. British troops take a bit to find them, but once they do, they throw the beachhead into disorder and wound the commanding officer. Since Winfield Scott with artillery doesn't arrive until the 12th, there is no artillery fire to force the British up the slopes, and no opportunity for Captain Wool to follow them and seize the initiative. A second wave of boats arrives including Van Rensselaer and another general arrives. Having heard the noise of gunfire, Brock gallops down from Ft. George. When he sees what the situation is, he sends for General Shaeffe to bring more troops. Because he has a 25% more troops than OTL, he has a few more to spare for picket duty, and one of them spies a group of US troops trying to come up a little known path behind Queenston heights, and they are forced back down. Meanwhile, the British battery at the top the heights is having a field day interdicting any further boat trips. Not that it would have mattered, as the rest of the militia on the NY side were asserting their right to refuse to cross into a foreign country. When Shaeffe arrives with reinforcements, the US troops surrender, almost 1000 men captured or wounded (some boats may have made more trips than thought, as the US leaders thought they had less than 800 men across).


This was the US's second unmitigated failure in invading Canada. While not as disastrous as Hull's, it was still a major failure. Moreover, there weren't even the personnel advantages that the US derived OTL (namely finding the talents of Scott and Wool, and the British losing Brock).​


*** what follows is both OTL and TTL
Great rounds of finger-pointing followed on the US side. Smyth claimed Van Rensselaer had refused to let him fight, Van Rensselaer claimed Smyth wouldn't follow orders. Van Rensselaer resigns and Smyth appointed in command on 16 October.​


Dearborn insists Smyth have at least 3000 men for an attack. Smyth wants 8000, and in the meantime his men are wracked with measles and dysentery. Finally, in late November a PA brigade of 1500 men arrive, and their leader assures Smyth that they'll all attack. Finally! Over 3000! Smyth sets up boats on night of 27 November, army stands waiting in the cold all night and day, then told to stand down. Their grumbling isn't helped by the lack of explanation. (only ~400 of the 1500 would cross, so he was below the 3000 mark). Smyth ordered another attack on 1 December, but less than 2000 men showed up for that. So that was called off. After 2 false starts, the PA militia go home.​


Smyth might possibly have survived the debacle if he hadn't regularly issued annoying, bombastic announcements. As it was, his reputation was destroyed, and the crowd in Buffalo booed and hissed him out of town.​


Thus ends the Niagara campaign for 1812.​

 
(Hmmm.... note to self, what DID the Metis grow?)

Metis diet in most regards parralled the local native culture. Buffalo with the Plains Cree and plains Indian Tribes, Fish and rice with woodland Cree and Ojibiwa, and what ever other native growing food sources existed. Generally very little grain farming occured but alot depended on whether the Metis individual associated themselves with the more traditional European, farming culture or the traditional native culture.

It is interesting that until Sir George Simpson became governor of the HBC company native brides were at least accepted (if not encouraged) for young men (usually scots) employed by the HBC. After he took control of the company the elitist the organization became creating more distrust than ever. In many cases long term HBC customers started to treat more with independent traders or American companies (yes...the Americans were involved heavily in the NWCo. and others) due to the treatment of "squaw wifes" or "country wives".

Let me know if you need more...can call the Metis guys up locally and get details if needed.

Actually, I was thinking of the Red River (and later, Batoche) Metis who were semi-settled and partly farmers. It turns out that even they weren't quite as settled as I thought, and what little grain they grew was mainly sold to the HBC for use in the fur trade.

If they hadn't been swamped by Anglo settlers (mostly from Ontario), it would have been interesting to see how they ended up....
 
If you're worried about farming development then I'd recomend starting with either the Jesuit missions or HBC fur trading posts.

Both types of outposts commonly planted gardens and farmed in order to reduce costs and improve their diet. Much of Canada's early farm crop research (formallized more in the 1900's) was done by such folks who got additional advice from either the Dominion Land Service or later the Department of Agriculture in Ottawa.

That being said some native tribal groups (Cree and Ojiiwa come to mind right away) farmed rice beds as a staple of their diet.
 
Winter 1812/3 in the Northwest: Remember the Raisin.

Winter 1812/3 in the Northwest: Remember the Raisin.​

As OTL, Harrison is given the task of assembling 10,000 men to take back Detroit. ITTL, he will have to take Ft Wayne at some point, but since his plan was to assemble 3 columns in three places, then meet at the rapids of the Maumee (modern Perrysburg, OH, near Toledo) for overwhelming force, he will do the same no matter whether he wants to strike north to Detroit or west to Ft Wayne first.

His three columns were: right column - General Simon Perkins, with an Ohio brigade from the Western Reserve Ohio, and Pennsylvania and Virginia militia assembled at Upper Sandusky; center column 1200 Ohio militia under Tupper at Urbana at the start of Hull's road; and Winchester's men at Ft. Defiance (where the Auglaize flows into the Maumee).​


He wanted to assemble 1 million rations for his men, and pre-position some of them. He basically spent the entire fall struggling with horse and wagons and oxen and mud, finally deciding that he needed to wait until winter when the mud was frozen and some of the route could be on the ice of rivers and lakes, or until spring. However, he was under pressure to produce a victory, and the alternative to a winter campaign was waiting until the Navy gained control of the lake so his men could be supplied by water. But that wouldn't happen until at least May, possibly later.​
It so happens that there is an enormous swamp, called the Black Swamp, which stretches between the Auglaize and Sandusky rivers, and was right in the path of his intended advance.​


It is true that, in the spring, General Hull had cut a road from Urbana to Detroit and taken his forces on it, but a) his force was much smaller, with lighter artillery and supply, and b) he traveled the road in May and June, and the autumn rains had made the land far swampier.​


While they were waiting, Perkins men built a series of blockhouses along the Sandusky (Fts Stephenson, Ball and Seneca), and constructed a 15 mile causeway across the Black Swamp.​


Tupper's men moved some of the supplies forward.​


Some of Winchester's men cut a road from St. Marys to their fort at the mouth of the Auglaize.​

All the soldiers in this army suffered, but especially the group under Winchester at Ft. Defiance. On half rations, when they had any, in crude huts, they suffered mightily. It's a wonder they didn't mutiny.​

All in all, Harrison probably had ~6500 men in his three columns by mid-December. On 20 December, he ordered Winchester to the rapids, to start the ball rolling. The snow lay up to 2' deep, but they trudged through and started building a fort on 10 January 1813 on the north bank of the Maumee. Soon, however, they heard that Americans wanted “rescuing” at Frenchtown (now Monroe MI), some 36 miles NE on the River Raisin (and 18 SW miles from Malden, the British base) and that there was a significant collection of supplies there. Since the garrison was only 50 Canadian militia and 100 Indians, Winchester and his men decided go to the 'rescue'. (He polled his officers – all the militia ones wanted to go, the single regular army man opposed it.)​

January 17 Colonel Wm Lewis starts out with 550 men, followed by Colonel John Allen with 110. The British garrison killed 12 and wounded 55, but the Americans took the town. At this point, Winchester seems to habe suddenly realized that half his force (and only half) was merely 18 miles from a major British fort. So he takes 300 more men up to Frenchtown.​

Meanwhile, Procter seems to have suddenly realized the same thing, he leaves Malden with 1200-1400 men (about half Indians lead by Roundhead and Walk-in-Water) NB Tecumseh was off recruiting warriors along the Wabash. He stops about 6 miles north of Frenchtown. He sets up his few cannon and his men. Winchester makes the mistake of setting his men up north of the Raisin instead of south. On the left of his forces, there was a heavy picket fence, but on the right only a light rail one. Winchester did not set out pickets or patrols, because he assumed his lower officers had done as 'routine'.​


At 4 a.m. on the 21st, Procter attacks and quickly overwhelms the American right, which is totally taken by surprise. [In fact, had he sent the first wave in with bayonets, he might have done even better.] Winchester hurries to his men (he was sleeping on the other side of the river) to rally them, but in the meantime, Indians attacked the rear and scalped over 100 men. The rest, including Winchester were captured.​

Meanwhile, on the left, 400 men under Major George Madison were holding out, and actually thought they were winning, when a white flag appears and he is told that Winchester had surrendered his whole force. Madison refused unless he could have guarantees of safe conduct for his troops. Procter initially refused, but after Madison pointed out what it would cost the Brits to take them, he agreed. Taking the prisoners who could march, he retreated to Malden, leaving some wounded prisoners (at least 30 maybe as many as 100) in the town. The Indians discovered booze and, while drunk, attacked the prisoners, even setting one house containing a group of them on fire. There were plenty of eyewitnesses, and the story of the massacre only grew in the telling. Many Americans, and even some Canadians blamed Procter for not providing better protection, but he did have as many prisoners as soldiers, and he didn't want to annoy his Indian allies, and there were more American forces coming up from the south, so it wasn't quite as simple as some make it out.​

It was a total disaster for the Americans – some 300 dead, dozens wounded, and a the rest of an entire column captured (save a small handful).​

The cry “Remember the Raisin” would be a rallying cry for American soldiers for the rest of the war.​

When Harrison heard that Winchester had headed north, he sped up to reach the rapids, where he heard of the disaster on 22 January. Since he didn't have enough men to replace the ones just lost [hunh? He still has ~5000 doesn't he?], and since the term of enlistment for many of his troops was approaching, he called off the winter campaign, and started to build Ft. Meigs (after the Ohio governor) at the rapids on the south bank of the river.​

Despite the furor over the 'massacre', Procter is rewarded with promotion to Brigadier General.​


NB: all the events above are identical to OTL.

Note that Procter currently has about the same number of troops at Malden available for use because the increased supply is basically offset by the garrison at Ft. Wayne and the men needed to supply it.​

What's different from OTL is the aftermath.​

  1. some time after Winchester marched out of Ft. Defiance, a strange white man wearing a tin pot for a hat shows up at Ft Wayne, saying that all the troops there were gone, and he didn't have anyone to talk to. Would they like some nice apples, and be sure to save the seeds and plant them in the spring, and Ft Wayne could have lovely apple trees, just like Ft Defiance does. “Oh, you're French, you'll love these apples, because they come from a tree planted by the French when they ruled here.” [Yup, Johnny Appleseed lived at Ft. Defiance during this time period, and the orchards he grew, the source of the apples he spread, were from trees planted by the French back then. Really. OTL. No, I doubt he traveled to Ft Wayne then, but butterflies, you know. Oh, and I don't know if he was wearing the tinpot hat yet.]​
As a result, the smallish garrison at Ft Wayne splits and half head down the Maumee and occupy the empty fort.​


  1. Procter (and his superiors) call up all the available ready militia. This is a force of some 4000 men more that OTL, and these extras are all moved, with as many supplies as possible, first to Malden and then across the river. They build a fort at Frenchtown. This is difficult, because a thaw in February makes the river ice tricky.​


  1. Prevost, fearing more of an American winter campaign, and perhaps more to the point, a renewed spring one, orders a detachment of the Royal Artillery and 6 companies of the 104th Foot (550 men) to march from New Brunswick to Quebec in the dead of winter, marching on snowshoes, pulling tobaggans. They arrived 15 March and then traveled west to Kingston. (This is actually OTL) Also orders some Lower Canada militia to move west (from Quebec City west to cover Montreal, so some Montreal militia can cover Kingston and the St. Lawrence inbetween). (This is not OTL)​

Note that, OTL, Prevost kept 5000 militia on the rolls over this winter. Here, he's doing more because he 1) can and 2) has to because his forces are rather overextended.​
 
Winter/Spring 1813 Northwest

Brock arrives in Michigan and takes command. In mid-February, while not more than 2000 militia (+500 regulars + 600 Indians) are in place yet, word comes that the new American fort is almost deserted. Indians capture a soldier out cutting wood, and it's confirmed. Harrison had had to let all but 500 of his men go (OTL). Not only that, but he left himself. There are some new men coming in, but not many and all are very green. It's hard to believe, but Brock has some of his men watch the fort, and it seems to be true. Brock attacks with what he has, and takes Ft. Meigs, re-naming it Fort Bathurst.​

Harrison was already in trouble with the War Department because of the expensive campaign with only losses to show for it. Now he loses a fort – and he's not even there. He's off relaxing with his family in Cincinnati! Harrison is fired unceremoniously. It is decided not not waste more time and effort on overland assaults when there was every expectation that the US would win control of Lakes Erie and Ontario, and then raids and invasions could happen at the will and direction of the US, anywhere on the lake, where the Brits would have to defend their entire shoreline. Put the shoe on the other foot.​

Someone needed to take over, and the current leadership of the army had proved itself all too fallible, in general. James Monroe, currently Secretary of State had wanted to be a general, but knew that Armstrong (the recently appointed Secretary of War on 5 February) would never agree as the two men hated each other. So Monroe did not put his name in for one of the 4 Major General positions appointed at that time. However, when the news of the disaster in the Northwest comes, together with the disgrace of Harrison (who had only just been appointed to one of those positions – his previous rank of Major General was only a brevet rank, not permanent), Monroe lobbies for the position of Lieutenant General (the only one in the Army), in charge of the whole northern frontier. Armstrong figures 1) hey, at least it gets him out of DC and 2) considering the mess every other general made there, he could hardly do worse – and if he did, he'd be out of Armstrong's hair permanently!​

Monroe is appointed Lieutenant General of the US Army, commanding the entire northern frontier, as of 15 March 1813.​

--​

Meanwhile, back on the Maumee, Brock has a tricky problem. He has 2500 troops with him, but most are militia and most of those will have to go back to their farms for planting in a couple of months. He needs to garrison Ft Wayne (although not with a huge force, as the easiest route to it is through one of the other new forts), Ft. Defiance (which definitely needs to be upgraded – and needs to be well manned as it is at risk because the road up from St Marys comes there) and Ft. Bathurst (formerly Ft. Meigs, because that's where Hull's Trace comes).​

Still, if he can square the circle and manage to properly man those forts (plus, of course, the existing forts in Upper Canada), he will have a WONDERFUL defensive line that will ensure the British possession of Michigan as long as the line holds.​

Tecumseh nags him a bit – as the fighting is supposed to be to recover Indian land, not aggrandize the British Empire. But he does recognize that resources at hand are limited, and they're not 100% sure they can hold what they have, let alone expand south and west. At least the Indians now have a refuge where they're safe from American raids.

By dint of a lot of discussion and paperwork, and juggling of men and companies within regiments, Brock finally comes up with a solution that should cover the basic manning of the forts. It would not have been possible at all if the French militia had not made arrangements for many of them to stay past planting. Sure, many of those would have to return for harvest, but they could be replaced some of the men let off for planting in the spring. (Since they had already arranged for the work of the missing men to be covered in turns.)​

Another problem is rations, which are going to be a bit short for a while. Fortunately, the Americans had some stored in the fort, and once breakup happens, food and supplies can be shipped in across the water. (Of course, that presupposes that the RN can keep control of the Lakes...)​

Meanwhile, Brock doesn't have to let the militia go until April or even May, so he gets the best use out of them that he can, cutting and improving roads, upgrading the portages along the Maumee (especially around the rapids), upgrading the defenses of all three forts, enlarging and improving Ft. Defiance. In gratitude to John Chapman, he even orders all his men to save apple seeds for planting in the spring.​
 

perfectgeneral

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Why give up territory in a wank?



I'm surprised that you didn't enforce the proclamation line and start with a lot more Quebec. Declare the Louisiana Purchase illegal and the job is half done. The USA is surrounded by Canada on three sides and the RN rules the Atlantic.
 


I'm surprised that you didn't enforce the proclamation line and start with a lot more Quebec. Declare the Louisiana Purchase illegal and the job is half done. The USA is surrounded by Canada on three sides and the RN rules the Atlantic.
well, I suppose that might be possible, but I don't see how. It would have been really, REALLY expensive to station enough military there to keep Americans out. There is essentially no local population that can support soldiers, or even raise food for them. And the Americans massively, MASSIVELY outnumber the population of BNA at the time.

Yes, I am trying for (a) specific (set of) end conditions, but I'm trying to be fair, and avoid ASBs or even terribly many events of low probability. :)Ya, I know this is a wank, it's not supposed to be fair.:)

I don't see how to do that with your suggested scenario. Hey, if you can do better, you're welcome!
 
Naval action/preparation on the Lakes, 1812

Naval action/preparation on the Lakes, 1812

St. Lawrence River, fall 1812
various inconclusive skirmishes, much like OTL. Does make Prevost realize (even more) that the vital lifeline of the St. Lawrence river is vulnerable.​

Preparation on the British side.
On August 19 Captain James Richard Dacres on the Guerrière fought the Constellation, and lost. He was returned to the RN and faced a Court Martial on 6 October 1812 which cleared him of all blame for the loss. (as OTL) Admiral Warren, wanting someone to spearhead the RN effort on the lakes thinks: “If he was a bit rash going up against the bigger US frigate, well that's the RN spirit, and it's a lot better than what I'm hearing from the Provincial Marine currently running the ships on the Lakes. Besides, he really wants and needs a chance to redeem himself.” So Captain Dacres and a couple of junior officers are sent post haste to Kingston on Lake Ontario, the main British naval base.​
Warren knows that he needs someone more senior, eventually but a captain will do for now, basically to prepare things for the spring.​

British status on the Great Lakes
(All of this will be OTL, unless otherwise noted.)​
British ships on the great lakes were run by the Provincial Marine in 1812 (not the RN), a mostly transport service under the Quartermasters dept. The commander on Lake Ontario was the elderly Hugh Earle (who replaced the 75 year old commodore John Steel). He had had several fairly inconclusive skirmishes with the Americans, losing some where he had more guns and not winning any.​

While Lake Ontario was not, in any way, a US preserve – the Brits were still able to ferry supplies across the lake, etc. - Earle had basically ceded dominance to the US navy.​


American status on the lakes
(All of this will be OTL, unless otherwise noted.)​
On 3 September, Captain Isaac Chauncey was appointed by the US to command on the Great Lakes (he had served in the Pseudo-War and at Tripoli, named captain in 1806). His position at the time was commandant of the Naval Yards at NYC, so it was very convenient to arrange supplies He ordered 140 carpenters, 700 seamen/marines, 100 cannon, and tons of supplies (especially ammunition) forwarded from NYC, and ordered the yards to step up production of various sorts of naval supplies.​

On his way out to the post, he discovered how very bad the roads were, and ordered that supplies be redirected to Oswego, then coasted to Sackett's. [NB:there is a reasonably good water way – Hudson river to Albany, Mohawk river then some lakes, etc. Basically where the Erie canal (in part) would go later.] Note that Sackett's Harbor is really the only good harbor on the US side of Lake Ontario.​

When Chauncey arrived, the US had only a single warship on Lake Ontario, the Oneida (18 guns), but he quickly bought and arranged for the gunning of commercial schooners. Moreover, Lieutenant Woolsey (who had been in command before Chauncey arrived, had managed to keep Earle from destroying 6 schooners (that he were planned to be fitted with cannon) at Ogdensburg on the St. Lawrence. While the schooners weren't destroyed, both it and a recently armed schooner (the Julia) were trapped there. There was a brief truce in September, which allowed all 7 schooners to make it to Sackett's Harbor, where Chauncey could turn some of them into warships. Chauncey arrives at Sackett's on 2 October. When conversion is finished, US now has 10 ships with ~60 guns, while the Brits have 6 ships with 88 (OTL, iTTL 8 ships with 94). Chauncey also orders the construction of a new ship, the Madison, a 24 gun corvette. It went from raw timber to finished ship in 45 days, launching on 26 November, just in time to be laid up for the winter(!)​


Action on the Niagara
On Lake Erie, at the beginning of the war, the Brits had 5 ships and the US had none. (Queen Charlotte with 20 32# carronades , General Hunter 10 x 12# long guns, (Lady) Prevost 14x9# , Nancy and Caledonia 8x6#, and the Detroit 14 guns (what size??). ITTL, it's 6 with the last being a gun boat armed with 1 long gun and 2 carronades.)​

On 9 October, Lieutenant Jesse D. Elliott (the then US commander on Lake Erie), took 100 men (or more) and crossed the river in the middle of the night to Ft. Erie. They boarded Caledonia and Detroit, overpowered the crews and cut the cables, trying to escape with the two ships. British artillery fire disrupts the effort, and the Detroit is grounded. US forces burn her, to deny her to the British, but they do manage make off with the Caledonia, which thus forms the nucleus for the US fleet.​

The Brits had not guarded those ships particularly well because there were 40 prisoners of war from Hull's army on board, and the ships were flying a flag to denote that. They believed that that made the ships immune from attack, claimed that the US attack which was therefore a violation of the rules of war. More newspaper headlines in Canada and Britain about the 'dastardly cowardly American treachery'. (all but the newspaper headlines OTL)​

Elliott was working on 2 20 gun brigs and 3 'gunboats' at Black Rock (the schooners Somers, Tigress and Ohio and the sloop-rigged Trippe, which had all been purchased by the United States Navy and were being converted into gunboats – possibly that 5th one was being built). Unfortunately for him, the work sites were just within reach of the guns at Ft Erie, and so construction was regularly disrupted. Brock wanted to attack those boats while under construction, but Prevost forbade it. (The 'No attacks onto US soil' policy.) (so far as OTL) Brock might have been willing to push on this, but there were several problems. Firstly, for the weeks immediately following the US attack, vigilance on the US side was heightened as they legitimately expected retaliation. Secondly, Brock was stretched thin enough on this frontier that he really didn't have men to spare for a major attack on a fortified position. Thirdly, by the time the vigilance might have started to die down there was the major attack at the other end of the river against Queenston Heights.​

However, when Roulette (Captain of the Caledonia) quietly sounded out Brock, he was given to understand that Brock would turn a blind eye to an unofficial retaliation. [Note: OTL, Roulette was in charge of the watch on the ships. Given his French name and given that the Caledonia was a NorthWest Company ship that had been pressed into service, I am assuming he was here captain. (The North West Company, based out of Montreal, was a competitor to the Hudson Bay Company, and most of her low level employees were Canadien, although the bosses at headquarters were largely Scots, hence “Caledonia”). The ships were also loaded with furs and deer hides. ITTL, the slightly increased manpower means that some of the furs got off-loaded before the attack. Not that that affects the TL one way or another.)] Anyway, Roulette ITTL was sick and off the ship the night of the attack, so is available to lead an attack later. He gathers a group of NWC employees (mostly voyageurs), loads them in canoes, and crosses the river in the middle of the night of December 7 (date chosen relatively at random, but while attention is still focussed at the other end of the river). They don't have enough men to actually take back the ships, but they can do damage and try to burn the ships. One ship burns, another is badly damaged, the others suffer only mild damage. Prevost is angry, but there's nothing he can do – the men involved were not formally in the military. And while he has some very strong suspicion about supplies and other help Brock or his men may have provided, he has no evidence.​




Back on Lake Ontario
On 10 November, several American ships trapped the Royal George (the largest British ship on Lake Ontario with 22 guns) in Kingston harbour, and the Oneida (the largest US ship on the lake, with 18 guns) pursued her and attacked her mercilessly. The American fleet believed they had severely damaged the Royal George, but as dusk was falling, had to move out to safe anchorage for the night. The next day, the wind was wrong for a renewed attack, and the Americans returned to Sackett's Harbor. As OTL.​

As they travel up the St. Lawrence, they observe the difficulty of shipping matériel up the rapids, and the danger posed by the American shore – the bateaux are quite vulnerable to American attacks.​



Dacres and his officers arrive in Kingston on November 12, and are horrified. They quickly devise a plan. 1) they'll repair the Royal George, 2) they'll concentrate the other ships of the flotilla near Kingston, and 3) they'll let slip to spies where the brig Earl of Moira (the Brits' second biggest ship, and a tempting target) would be a few days later, 4) spend the next days practicing gunnery, which the sailors obviously need more skill at.​

Dacres also rounds up/convinces some militia to help man the ships as they are somewhat undermanned. When he finds that there are a handful of French settlers who had been sailors and had handled cannon on merchant ships, he was overjoyed.​

The trap is set. Chauncey's flotilla sails out to meet the Earl of Moira, and after they're engaged, the Royal George and a couple of schooners appear to upset the fight and are able to approach more closely than expected without being seen due to a snowstorm. After some fighting, Dacres breaks off, and is able to get most of his ships away in the snowstorm. The Brits do capture one schooner, and sink another, for the loss of one of theirs. However, for the first time on the lakes, the Brits have taken on a US force and won.​


Winter 1812/3 on the Lakes
The lakes close down for the winter, there is no more naval combat until spring.​

Prevost orders the building of 3 new ships, one each at Kingston, York and Amherstburg, and a few smaller gunships. Unfortunately, Amherstburg is at the western end of Lake Erie, and winter means that naval supplies like cannon and shot can't be sailed down the lake, but rather carted or sledged overland for hundreds of miles. This means that the new ship will not be completed come spring, despite everyone's best efforts, and that there's no point in trying to build anything bigger than a 20 gun schooner.​

On the American side, they are building another warship at Sackett's Harbor, and a small fleet of ships/gunboats at Presqu'ile (modern Erie PA). Chauncey, in charge of the whole Ontario/Erie theatre visits the Erie site in January and orders 2 of the 4 ships enlarged (it's too late to do that for the other two). Presqu'ile was chosen because it had decent water connections via the Ohio with Pittsburgh and ultimately Philadelphia, so matériel could be sourced from there and not add to the burden on the NYC yards that were supplying Sackett's Harbor. Oliver Hazard Perry requests a position from Chauncey, and is appointed in charge of the Lake Erie construction - and then the flotilla once built, but doesn't arrive until the end of March. Once he inspects the site, he then heads east to discuss manning and resources with Chauncey.​

When the British hear about the building activity, they want to attack it and disrupt it. In many ways the best time to attack would be mid winter. Dacres proposes an 'over the ice' attack on Sackett's Harbor, but Prevost turns him down (OTL it was Andrew Grey of the Provincial Marine who requested the attack). Brock and Procter would dearly love to attack Presqu'ile, but the logistics would be incredibly bad (across the lake, or along half of it). And they are somewhat... occupied along the Maumee for much of the winter, anyway. They will have to wait at least until the ice breaks up in the spring.​

British Leadership changes
The British government has been watching events in Canada with great interest, and have read the various dispatches they've received. They decide to make some changes. Prevost has been truly excellent at handling the government affairs, interacting with the local parliaments, but his handling of military matters (admittedly following instructions he had received from London), has not been quite as effective as might have been desired. Therefore, they decide to kick him upstairs. They appoint him “Viceroy of all British lands in North America, Governor General over all the Canadas, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Newfoundland and Bermuda, Commander in Chief of all British forces, on land or at sea, ....” etc., and offer him the title “Marquis St. Lawrence” but make it clear that 'commander in chief' means broad suggestions of strategies, not vetoing tactical moves. Brock is appointed Lieutenant General with tactical control of all land forces in the Canadas, and elevated to the baronage as Baron Maumee. Procter receives a knighthood. As a mark of the especial favour, and as a show of the vice-regal powers granted him, Prevost is granted the right and power to preform the ceremonies elevating Brock and Procter (so no one has to travel all the way to London for the King to do it). Prevost is also granted the power to grant simple knighthoods, as seems appropriate, on consultation with the appropriate parliament and military leaders. (This is all very much NOT OTL.) Warren stays as Admiral in charge of North America. Warren is asked to find someone more senior to run the Great Lakes naval operations. No complaints about Dacres, but he's just not senior enough.

Edit: the above paragraph is the sort of conflation of events you sometimes see in history books. The elevation of Prevost to Viceroy and Marquis and Brock to de facto head of the armed forces happened effective 1 March 1813. The elevation of Brock to baron and Procter to knight happens a bit later.

Prevost is also supposed to work with Procter and locals on setting up a governing body for Canada West (as the British controlled parts of Michigan and northern Ohio and Indiana are now being called).​

 
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Spring thaw, 1813

Spring thaw, 1813

Lake Erie

Brock has over 1000 militia that will need to head home by about the first of May. Now, while he has been making good use of them, increasing the garrisons of forts, cutting roads, etc., he'd really like to make proper use of them as a military force before they do go home. He comes up with a plan with Lieutenant John Arbuckle (ATL character, one of 2 lieutenants that came with Dacres), who's in charge of the naval forces, such as they are, on Lake Erie. They arrange that when spring break up comes, Arbuckle will bring his motley flotilla (basically every sailing craft of any size on the lake) to Ft. Bathurst (Ft Meigs as was) and pick up as many men as will fit and ferry them to Point Pelee, on the north side of Lake Erie, straight across from Presqu'ile. Once a suitable concentration is achieved, they will then be ferried across the lake to Presqu'ile. The boats appear on the April 1, starting ferrying. On April 14, it's decided to start the offensive. The first loads are actually a couple of hundred Indians who are landed out of sight to the east. Their job is to sever lines of communications, and prevent small groups from escaping. They are also feign an attack in the morning to distract the defenders away from the lake.​

The major attack starts on April 15. The first forces arriving at Presqu'ile dig in until reinforcements arrive, and hold off a first wave of American attackers trying to throw them back into the lake. Still, as the day goes by, more and more forces are ferried across the lake, and by nightfall, they are on the advance.​

Fortunately, for the British, Perry was still getting his command organized. When he had arrived on 27 March, the place was almost undefended, and he urgently requested help. 4 cannon and 500 militia were immediately sent from Pittsburgh, but they had only just arrived and were not well organized or dug in. [I don't know when they got there iOTL, I suspect maybe later than that. I'm actually giving the Americans the benefit of the doubt here.] The next day (the 16th, the US forces surrendered. Unfortunately for them, with Perry being away (he was off to meet with Chauncey and beg for more sailors), it didn't occur to anyone to burn the naval stores. Thus the British get a windfall, and over the next several days, load as much as they can on their ships for their own use, and take in tow those boats near enough completion that they can float on their own. Every scrap of usable material and food is loaded on British boats and taken across the lake, and everything left is put to the torch and totally destroyed. The militia (as usual) are released, but they have to march away as there is no food or shelter left, and they're given the warning to pass on that if any building happens here again, there'll be another visit from the RN.​

The British forces withdraw, and the militia are home by the end of the month, in time for planting. Note that word of the attack has to travel overland, which takes a while. [NB: this is all ATL, Procter didn't have the men or permission to mount the attack, and Perry was able to finish his fleet, well defend his port, and eventually win the Battle of Lake Erie, seizing control of the lake from the British. This is all changed now.]​

Lake Ontario
Very much as OTL, Chauncey sets out from Sackett's Harbor with 2000 men on a motley collection of ships, barges and anything else that would float. The armed ships include 3 ships and 12 gunboats. [OTL it was 14 gunboats, but they lost 2 last fall, iATL. Also, OTL it was 1700 men, but the US is more desperate for a victory.] They have to turn back due to weather, but set out again and arrive off York (modern day Toronto) on April 27. They land their troops west of York, and the warships head east to pound Fort York and the western battery.​

The 18 gun sloop Wolfe and two smaller gunboats were launched on 20 April (OTL, possibly a bit earlier here) at Kingston and readied for service. When word arrives at Kingston, the entire British fleet on the lake loads up with soldiers and militia and heads to York to join the fight. (ATL)​

The American forces are all landed by 10a.m., and advance slowly toward the town. General Shaeffe, seeing that the US cannon is barely moving, darts around the side of the US forces with some light cannon and strafes their flanks. About 11:00, US forces come into the open and are attacked by cannon fire from the western battery. So Brigidier General Pike decides to attack the battery and take it out.​

Meanwhile, the fort and battery are firing back at the attacking ships. And, with heated shot, this return fire is far more effective than OTL, and the Oneida beaches herself on Toronto island to avoid sinking. 2 gunboats are also destroyed – one sunk, the other's magazine exploding.​

Unlike OTL, no one accidentally sets the powder magazine on fire, and the fort keeps firing at ships and men until Pike's men overwhelm the battery, although Pike himself dies in the attack. The army then head toward the town and the fort.​

Unlike OTL, we have an energetic naval captain on hand. Dacres organizes his ships crew and locals and some militia and prepares to go to war. The gunboat that was being built is done [ATL, I think], and the warship is almost ready to go, but hasn't had her masts stepped or other last minute work done. When he heard of the arrival of the US fleet last night, he rushed everyone to be able to get the ship out into the water. Yes, it had jury-rigging, but was able so sail and steer (sort of), and more important, had her guns loaded. Also, they build some barricades in front of the harbour and man them.​

So when the American ships show up, two British ships limp out the harbour. The Americans mostly ignore them, as the warship is OBVIOUSLY not ready for sea, with a spar for a mast, and crazy sails. Heck, the gunports aren't properly installed, they're WEDGED shut. It looks like they're just trying to sail around the US fleet and escape to Kingston or somewhere. They ignore her until she gets past the fleet – and turns in to attack! Gunports are pushed into the water and a full broadside lashes into the nearest ships. She inflicts fearsome punishment, but receives even more. She's about to surrender, when through the thick clouds of powdersmoke the rest of the British fleet arrives and opens fire. The American fleet is now over powered, even if not out numbered, and the British ships close and pound the American ships, and then the militia boards them. One by one the American fleet surrenders except for two schooner/gunboats that get away to bear the news to Sackett's Harbor.​

Meanwhile, the American army, having taken the western battery, moves into the town and loots and burns it. Some say that scalps were found at the city hall, and that enraged the soldiers, others that it was the death of Pike, others the lack of leadership between the time Pike died, and the time General Dearborn was able to land and exert control, but no one quite knows for sure what happened. What is known is that the sack and burning of the city of York happened. This provides the excuse for the British to burn Washington and other cities later, and even provides the [ATL] motto of Upper Canada “Je me souviens” (I remember), the battle cry thereafter of the French militia that came to save the town.​

It takes hours for the officers to bring the army under control, and try to get them redirected to assault Ft York, and the embankments/barricades guarding the harbour. And in that time, the (largely French) reserve militia west of town, had assembled at St Jean d'Etobicoque and started marching in from behind. With their fleet gone, and an intact, manned fort in front of them and angry militia coming in behind, the Americans decide to surrender. Sure, they might have been able to win the fight – but once they ran out of ammunition and food, then what? Their transport was gone and they could hardly walk home across Lake Ontario​

The few surviving US ships arrive back at Sackett's Harbor to tell of the disaster that just happened. And discover that word of the attack on Presqu'ile had arrived shortly after they had left port. The Brits own the lakes.​
 
Miscellaneous, winter 1812/3

Oops, this should have come BEFORE that last post.




Miscellaneous, winter 1812/3

After that one brief naval action, Dacres spends the winter overseeing the naval construction and fortifications, mostly on Lake Ontario. He is able to expedite the building process very slightly, and has several ideas for improving the forts' abilities to deal with naval attack. He orders furnaces built for heating shot, for instance, as hot shot is MUCH more efficient against ships.​

Lieutenant Colonel George Macdonnell gets grudging permission from Prevost to attack Ogdensburg (late February), which he does, yielding 60 prisoners, 16 cannons, 2 tons of ammunition, 1500 barrels of pork, 800 muskets, 400 rifles, and the burning of 2 American schooners. Ogdensburg was never again garrisoned, nor a threat to the British thereafter. [All OTL.]​

Admiral Warren sends Captain Sir James Lucas Yeo, brevetted as Commodore, to take control of the Great Lakes. With him go 3 commanders, 8 lieutenants, 10 midshipmen and 400 sailors (many of whom are sent from England, not from Halifax). [This is the OTL number, and is additional to my ATL Dacres and his 2 lieutenants.]​

In agricultural matters, the French farmer militia tell the Indians in 'Canada West' about potatoes. While they aren't terribly interested in a new food, many, especially those within reach of American raids, ARE interested in food the American soldiers can't steal or cut down. Obviously, this won't make any difference until at least the summer, but there will be some long reaching effects.​
 
Interesting set of mini-actions...

As this is a Canada-wank though what are your plans for Lake Champlain...battles were fought along the shores of it and IIRC the US forces quickly captured the north end preventing troops from using the lake to hit New York City.

Also the Mississippi river access to consider if you want to do an end-run hit and run style raid to the southern US...the route was well known to the NWC (at least the headwaters were). All depends on how exotic you want your TL to be.

Given the sucess Britian had with native irregulars I noticed that we're still dealing with mostly the Iroquis confederation for manpower. Cree, Chipewyan, MicMac, Blackfoot, and Sioux were all accustumed to dealing with both the HBC and NWC by this time and putting out a call through Montreal for more irregulars (with HBC or NWC liason officers) in exchange for trade goods quickly adds lots of bodies coming from unexpected fronts (lots of movement on the western frontier). IIRC natives were not permitted to trade for guns during this time and having Britian give a gun to each irregular creates a very high profile status item for the war veterns to display.

Keep it up,
foresterab
 
Interesting set of mini-actions...

As this is a Canada-wank though what are your plans for Lake Champlain...battles were fought along the shores of it and IIRC the US forces quickly captured the north end preventing troops from using the lake to hit New York City.
So far actions are mostly happening about the same time as OTL, except for the actions on the Maumee. Brock has quite enough on his plate for now to be thinking about Lake Champlain. That will come.


Also the Mississippi river access to consider if you want to do an end-run hit and run style raid to the southern US...the route was well known to the NWC (at least the headwaters were). All depends on how exotic you want your TL to be.
Actually, the next expansion of theatre may well be establishing a base at Chicago, for raiding into Illinois and south. The height of land between water shed (into the Great Lakes vs south to the Mississippi is insanely close to Lake Michigan in the south, and ship-borne transport is SO much more efficient. OTL a raid was sent from Mackinac south on some of those northern tributaries, and was quite effective in its way, but was rather limited.

Logistics really are the limiting factor on force projection. And Indian raids are very useful against isolated farms. Against fortified positions, without disciplined troop and/or cannon support, not so much.

Given the sucess Britian had with native irregulars I noticed that we're still dealing with mostly the Iroquis confederation for manpower. Cree, Chipewyan, MicMac, Blackfoot, and Sioux were all accustumed to dealing with both the HBC and NWC by this time and putting out a call through Montreal for more irregulars (with HBC or NWC liason officers) in exchange for trade goods quickly adds lots of bodies coming from unexpected fronts (lots of movement on the western frontier). IIRC natives were not permitted to trade for guns during this time and having Britian give a gun to each irregular creates a very high profile status item for the war veterns to display.
Actually, most of the 'Indians' are from Tecumseh's confederacy and are Shawnee, Ottawa, Miami, Sauk, Potawatami, etc. Certainly, Joseph Brant and the (Canadian) Six nations are doing some of the raiding on Lake Ontario, but that's not been much of the action so far.

Miqmaq, Blackfoot, Dene, and probably the L/Dakota etc are really too far out of the theatre to be useful. OTOH, you have a reasonable point about actively recruiting Cree, Ojibwa, maybe Nakota. OTL, the Brits used the Indians that showed up, and they were very well motivated because these were the nations that the US was directly threatening. Even so, after most battles, any warrior who wanted to go home did.

OT3H, I suppose that if a Plains Cree, say joins for a year to go off several hundreds of miles away from home for the fee of a musket for him and 5 for his family when he successfully completed the task.... Hmmm.... Have to think about that. Sheesh, now I have to go check gun policy. I do believe they WERE trading guns, don't you remember stories about 1 gun = pile of beaver pelts as long as the barrel? Still, going off, killing people AND GETTING PAID FOR IT, sounds like easier work than trapping all winter, eh?

OTL, without control of the Lakes, the Brits had a terrible time feeding their own men and the Indian forces directly dependent on them. They certainly didn't have the resources to go recruiting thousands of people from e.g. all Rupertsland! ATL, those constraints are MUCH more relaxed, and I may have to give some serious thought to that.

1812 was a 'Oh, s**t, what's going on' year. 1813 is pivotal, and will let the Brits stop and think, and plan instead of reacting, which is what they have been doing up to the middle of 1813. Of course, the ATL change of leadership will help a lot. Prevost seems actually to have been a pretty good administrator, but he was pretty cautious and not a leader.

Keep it up,
foresterab
Thanks, comments are what make this all worthwhile.
 
Dathi

Just come across this and very interesting, as well as highly researched. Hell of a lot of detail.:D Might be useful with a map or two to in terms of visuallising events please?


I agree that the big requirement for a Canadian wank is not only more territory but an hostile external threat, which can only really come from the US. Not just because such a threat helps unify the dispariate elements of Canadian society but also it will attract more support from Britain and possibly most of all prevent or at least drastically reduce the drain of population to the southern state.

Very interesting varient your come up with. A distinctly more French Canada adds a new twist to events. Might also have effects further down the line possibly? The loyalty of the French settlers might ease the question of Catholic emancipation in Britain possibly, which might in turn result in possibly more Irish in Canada later on?

With the potatoe getting adopted by some Indians. Could see that having a useful effect on boosting their sustainable populations and reducing famine. However I thought its big advantage in Europe in wartime was less that it wasn't looted than that it was less disrupted by marching armies. Would have thought that, although it takes more time, any looters who know about farming, which will be the vast majority of troops at this time, are likely to recognise the upper part of the plant and be able to locate the tubers, provided they have the time to loot. Although probably more surviving undetected in small clearings and isolated positions perhaps?

While I wouldn't go as far as perfectgeneral I would have thought a 1783 that keeps the Ohio border for Canada would be simplier. Wasn't much of the area north of this occupied by the US because their army drove out the Indians. If instead of being 'empty land populated by savages' it part of the territory of one of the most powerful states in the world its going to be far less likelty that large American armies are going to be marching through it. The Indians, with possibly some token British support can fairly easily handle small groups of unwelcome settlers if their not backed by America soliders or militia. After all in this conflict isn't Canada basically taken back most of this land, which is surely more difficult than holding it in the 1st place in peace-time?

Given the continued set-backs are the Americans considering ending the conflict? Although with Britain and its allies holding a considerable section of territory that could be the sticking point. [Given the comment about what happens to Washington and other US towns I think this is going to be going on some time past 1814;)]. - Know I've said this before but don't think Britain burnt Washington in the conflict. They burnt certain government and military related buildings, partly in response to the US behaviour in frontier villages and at York but burning Washington suggests an wholesale razing of the place which definitely didn't happen and wasn't intended.

Anyway, another subscription to keep an eye on this.:D

Many thanks

Steve
 
Interlude - November 1812, Montreal


Interlude (thanks to foresterab for some of the inspiration)​
November 1812, Montreal
Headquarters of the Northwest Company.​

Armand St.Jacques (ATL French merchant, worked his way to the top level of the company (1)): I was just going over some of the reports on how the War is affecting our business, and thinking about some of the news from the Lakes region(2)​

Others: Yes, yes, we all know it's been a disaster this year, and will probably only get worse.​

Armand: Actually, I think we can make this war BENEFIT us.​

Others: hunh!? What on earth are you talking about? The government seized our ship, disrupted our trade, raised taxes, roused Indians to thoughts of the war path, not trapping. There's an upside to this!?!?​

Armand: Yes, let me explain.​

We have a huge network of contacts among Indian tribes from Lower Canada out to the Rocky Mountains. If we can provide the those Indians with the right incentives, we can provide the Government with hundreds or even thousands of warriors. Right now, the Government is only using those Indians who present themselves – mostly those organized by Tecumseh (although Brant is being very helpful, too.)​

Others: Ummm.... Yes, we could do that, but what kind of 'incentives' are you talking about, and are you going to provide them out of YOUR pocket?​

Armand: No, no, that's the beauty of the thing. If we agree on this plan, we present it to Sir George [Prevost]. We get the GOVERNMENT to pay for the incentives (whether it be muskets, trade goods or whatever), and we will basically provide the message service, the contacts. Then, in return for our services, we can ask for formal recognition, we can demand the use of shipping for those incentives (and possibly some of our own trade goods) – it's only fair, since they seized our ship the Caledonia on Lake Erie. And then, after the war, they can provide us with another such ship as payment for the use of the Caledonia(3). Moreover, if the Indian protectorate and the Louisiana purchase are opened up to us instead of American merchants, our profits could go sky high.​

If we just sit and grumble, we won't get ANY of those benefits, and still have almost all the losses. Yes, gentlemen, this may cost us (some) money in the short term, and we might have to take Government notes at face value until the war is over, but if we win and have contributed to the victory, we may profit immensely. The government may be absolutely overjoyed that we can provide a real benefit for undiscounted notes.​

Others: Hmmm... Why don't we ask Sir George for a monopoly on trade on all British land draining south into the Mississippi, like the Bay has on lands draining north – with the understanding that the two companies will allow the other to operate on their own territory. That gets up formal recognition in Ruperts Land, and we can surely out-compete the HBC in our territory. That should sound fair to Sir George, and even if we're turned down, it should make the other requests sound entirely reasonable.​

Chair: All in favour?​

(vast majority): AYE​




1 OTL, because the (protestant) Scots ran the major businesses in Montreal and Quebec, the church discouraged good Canadien lads from going into business – they might get tainted by heresy, you see. ITTL, there is a big enough nucleus of merchants/traders that came over with the royalist community that it is now becoming acceptable to be a businessman – initially small business, but some of these guys have grown in size. Also, as the NWC's lower level employees (voyageurs, etc.) were almost all Canadien (and at least nominally Catholic), it is a company more open to penetration by an ambitious young Frenchman with skills.​

2 The government may think of Michigan as 'west'. The fur trade companies laugh at them.

3 They don't know yet that the Caledonia was seized by the Americans. When they do find out, they'll point out that they need a ship (whoseever flag it flies under) NOW to carry those trade goods – and want another ship in payment at the end.​

 
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Dathi

Just come across this and very interesting, as well as highly researched. Hell of a lot of detail.:D
Thanks. Comments are good. Positive comments better. Comments that make suggestions even more so:)

So far, it's been reading a couple of 'War of 1812' books, trying to grok what happened, and how that might be twisted. So far, a lot (more than reasonable, actually) is happening on even the same days (American landing at York, for instance). Now, there's a REASON some of these things happened about when they did, and I do change dates if it seems appropriate, but it's easier if I keep things as much as possible the same, when possible. Knowing that there was a storm near Sackett's Harbor on 20 April 1813 only helps if the invasion leaves harbour on the same date!:)

OTOH, I will admit that most sources are INCREDIBLY vague about some of the things I need to know, and trying to track down what really happened is.. Frustrating.
Might be useful with a map or two to in terms of visuallising events please?
Ah. Map. Right. [whine: but the places are all the same as OTL. Thought: Oh yeah, so why did I have spend so much fripping time figuring out WHERE all those blasted rivers were? Oh. Right. Map. Hmm... ]
Never done a map before. I'll take a look through the Maps section, see if I can do something. [blasted commenters making me do more work.... grrr... Oops, I mean] "Thank you for the wonderful suggestion. I'm sure it will improve my TL, and will get right to work on it."

Seriously, I'll see what I can do, but it could take a few days.

Meanwhile.
Kingston Ontario and Sackett's Harbour, NY are right at the eastern end of Lake Ontario, essentially on either side of where the St. Lawrence flows out.
Ogdensburg NY is just a bit down the river, is the only significant US town on the St. Lawrence.
The Rapids of the Maumee are basically Toledo Ohio (Perryburg, actually, a southern suburb).
Ft Meigs (OTL) Ft Bathurst (TTL) are at the Rapids, see previous line.
The Maumee flows about WSW from Toledo OH to Ft Wayne Indiana
Ft Wayne is (duh) Ft Wayne Indiana
Ft. Defiance is on the Maumee about half way from Toledo to Ft Wayne.
The Auglaize River flows (almost straight north) flowing into the Maumee at Ft. Defiance.
York is the old name for Toronto.
Presqu'ile (French for 'peninsula') is the old name for Erie, PA.

Does that help any?


I agree that the big requirement for a Canadian wank is not only more territory but an hostile external threat, which can only really come from the US. Not just because such a threat helps unify the dispariate elements of Canadian society but also it will attract more support from Britain and possibly most of all prevent or at least drastically reduce the drain of population to the southern state.

Very interesting varient your come up with. A distinctly more French Canada adds a new twist to events. Might also have effects further down the line possibly? The loyalty of the French settlers might ease the question of Catholic emancipation in Britain possibly, which might in turn result in possibly more Irish in Canada later on?
O yes, o very yes. *Canada is going to be overwhelmingly Catholic, at least for the forseeable future. Even OTL, Canada is, IIRC, some 40+% RC. And, yes the US will be very nativist (hostile to foreigners) for a while, so more Irish go to *Canada, and they all stay. OTL, a large number actually did (n/o/t/ edit: go) to Canada, but many slipped south afterwards.

With the potatoe getting adopted by some Indians. Could see that having a useful effect on boosting their sustainable populations and reducing famine. However I thought its big advantage in Europe in wartime was less that it wasn't looted than that it was less disrupted by marching armies.
Grain is stored in granaries/barns. Often in sacks. Potatoes are/can be stored underground until needed. Looting armies hit a farm, steal valuables, rape the women, steal available food, move on. If they wanted to harvest the blasted food they'd've stayed on their OWN farms. :)

It is certainly true, as you say, that armies marching through a grain field destroy the grain, while armies marching across a potato field don't destroy all the potatoes. My understanding of the 30 years war, e.g., was that, while both issues matter, the first is more important. In any case, both matter.

WRT Indian villages, the US specifically cut down corn plants. That's even easier than destroying wheat/barley/oats/rye, and WAY easier than potatoes.

More later. My son wants to use the computer.
 
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