Map Thread V
- Thread starter Ian the Admin
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Your eastern part of your country isn't going to happen. Just to let you know!
It's an alternate, alternate, um yeah, I made it because I wanted to, not as a strategic map.
Thande
Donor
Very nice map. The British Tartary is certainly not implausible but I would have thought it would be done by the Muscovy Company, not a Siberian Company (Siberia is actually only a small part of Asian Russia, and thinking of the whole of Asian Russia as Siberia is a modern phenomenon). I suppose it could have been renamed later...
Wow interesting.
Über Dauhpiné, I like it!
What's the background behind this map?
Some suggestions:
1: Carte de l'état et des pays de la fédération and not Carte de l'état et les pays de la fédération.
2: I think the capital of Provence should be Marseille.
3: Commission cartographique française and not Commission cartographique des français.
Hapsburg
Banned
Africa, and some surrounding areas, circa 1993.
In this world, a more strongly Fascist Portugal joined the Axis Powers at the height of German occupation, in early 1942. Spain, however, remained neutral regardless.
When the war came to a close, Portugal was occupied by Britain and Portugal was robbed of her colonies. Notably, Mozambique was made a British mandate, and Portuguese West Africa was occupied jointly by France and Belgium. The 1940's saw the creation of the Iron Curtain between Western and Soviet allies, and a narrowly-averted Arab-Israeli war.
During the 1950's, the flashpoint of politics became decolonisation. Many plans were created, scrutinised, and eventually considered. Among them, the French, Belgian, and Spanish worked together to make their equatorial and central African colonies into a functioning, self-governing region. This was a reluctant decision; these colonial powers were still quite racist. However, it became apparent that they would be unable to hold their African colonies for long due to international pressure. So, they set out to make a functioning, autonomous region that, upon achieving independence, could be a valued trade partner.
By 1955, the plan to create a United States of Latin Africa was underway. This federated state idea was mirrored by British attempts in the south and east to create Federations and Dominions out of their colonies: Rhodesia and Nyasaland, East Africa, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, and Ghana were granted dominion status.
In 1958, Ghana carried through a referendum and became a Republic. Nigeria did the same the following year. Sierra Leone did not. France made their West African colonies into a federation with autonomy, the West African Republic. The new nation was a sudden creation and was fraught with civil unrest and violence. By 1960, Mauritania was split from it to dissuade violence from Muslim extremists; the same year, France gave up in Algeria and Tunisia and South Africa became a white-minority-rule Republic, in clear defiance of Britain's African policy.
In 1963, the Latin Africa project became a reality: the constitution of the Federated Republics of Africa was signed in Brazzaville, which was merged with Leopoldville to become a new capital city: Kinshasa, named after an ancient settlement in the same area.
However, Latin Africa had to deal with political issues from all sides: competition from the British dominion nations, border violence with Libya and Sudan, and ties to the Soviets and Americans. The Congo region became the site of numerous civil wars among rebel groups and ethnic militias. By 1968, the civil wars had been stifled enough to mobilize the army for a war in the interest of the federation: the Biafra conflict in Nigeria. Latin Africa invaded North Cameroon to distract Nigerian forces. The conflict was joined by the West African Republic, now encompassing Ghana, which attacked Nigeria to support the Biafran Repubic.
The war was over by 1971, and Biafra was recognised as independent. West Africa, however, was bankrupted by the conflict. Loans from the now-stable and powerful Latin Africa effectively made West Africa a forced ally of Latin Africa.
A second conflict erupted in the mid-1970's, this time with Sudan. Assisted by the Egyptian section of the United Arab Republic, Latin Africa seized Southern Sudan and Darfur. Latin Africa grew wealthy and stable under the influx of foreign investment and democratic initiatives during the late 1970's and early 1980's. Under Margaret Thatcher, Britain undertook a policy of rapprochement with Latin Africa, partly by pressing an embargo and other economic sanctions against apartheid-dominated South Africa. Despite Thatcher's fall in 1991, Britain and her dominions continued to warm up relations with Latin Africa. In 1992, South Africa abolished all traces of apartheid for good.
In January of 1993, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia occupied Kuwait in a bid to counter secular Arab republican interests in the region. The Kuwaiti monarchy-in-exile made a statement in the UN that the Saudis had done this illegally, without asking permission from the Kuwaiti government. The United Nations issued an ultimatum: if the Saudi troops did not leave by the end of February, the UN would sanction an international military expedition to end occupation.
The ultimatum ran out, and the war began. The UAR invaded Saudi border territories, but were repulsed at various skirmishes. The Saudi army occupied southern Mesopotamia. After months of stalemate, the international Coalition Forces arrived in Mosul airport on June 1, captained by large US and Soviet contingents.
In this world, a more strongly Fascist Portugal joined the Axis Powers at the height of German occupation, in early 1942. Spain, however, remained neutral regardless.
When the war came to a close, Portugal was occupied by Britain and Portugal was robbed of her colonies. Notably, Mozambique was made a British mandate, and Portuguese West Africa was occupied jointly by France and Belgium. The 1940's saw the creation of the Iron Curtain between Western and Soviet allies, and a narrowly-averted Arab-Israeli war.
During the 1950's, the flashpoint of politics became decolonisation. Many plans were created, scrutinised, and eventually considered. Among them, the French, Belgian, and Spanish worked together to make their equatorial and central African colonies into a functioning, self-governing region. This was a reluctant decision; these colonial powers were still quite racist. However, it became apparent that they would be unable to hold their African colonies for long due to international pressure. So, they set out to make a functioning, autonomous region that, upon achieving independence, could be a valued trade partner.
By 1955, the plan to create a United States of Latin Africa was underway. This federated state idea was mirrored by British attempts in the south and east to create Federations and Dominions out of their colonies: Rhodesia and Nyasaland, East Africa, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, and Ghana were granted dominion status.
In 1958, Ghana carried through a referendum and became a Republic. Nigeria did the same the following year. Sierra Leone did not. France made their West African colonies into a federation with autonomy, the West African Republic. The new nation was a sudden creation and was fraught with civil unrest and violence. By 1960, Mauritania was split from it to dissuade violence from Muslim extremists; the same year, France gave up in Algeria and Tunisia and South Africa became a white-minority-rule Republic, in clear defiance of Britain's African policy.
In 1963, the Latin Africa project became a reality: the constitution of the Federated Republics of Africa was signed in Brazzaville, which was merged with Leopoldville to become a new capital city: Kinshasa, named after an ancient settlement in the same area.
However, Latin Africa had to deal with political issues from all sides: competition from the British dominion nations, border violence with Libya and Sudan, and ties to the Soviets and Americans. The Congo region became the site of numerous civil wars among rebel groups and ethnic militias. By 1968, the civil wars had been stifled enough to mobilize the army for a war in the interest of the federation: the Biafra conflict in Nigeria. Latin Africa invaded North Cameroon to distract Nigerian forces. The conflict was joined by the West African Republic, now encompassing Ghana, which attacked Nigeria to support the Biafran Repubic.
The war was over by 1971, and Biafra was recognised as independent. West Africa, however, was bankrupted by the conflict. Loans from the now-stable and powerful Latin Africa effectively made West Africa a forced ally of Latin Africa.
A second conflict erupted in the mid-1970's, this time with Sudan. Assisted by the Egyptian section of the United Arab Republic, Latin Africa seized Southern Sudan and Darfur. Latin Africa grew wealthy and stable under the influx of foreign investment and democratic initiatives during the late 1970's and early 1980's. Under Margaret Thatcher, Britain undertook a policy of rapprochement with Latin Africa, partly by pressing an embargo and other economic sanctions against apartheid-dominated South Africa. Despite Thatcher's fall in 1991, Britain and her dominions continued to warm up relations with Latin Africa. In 1992, South Africa abolished all traces of apartheid for good.
In January of 1993, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia occupied Kuwait in a bid to counter secular Arab republican interests in the region. The Kuwaiti monarchy-in-exile made a statement in the UN that the Saudis had done this illegally, without asking permission from the Kuwaiti government. The United Nations issued an ultimatum: if the Saudi troops did not leave by the end of February, the UN would sanction an international military expedition to end occupation.
The ultimatum ran out, and the war began. The UAR invaded Saudi border territories, but were repulsed at various skirmishes. The Saudi army occupied southern Mesopotamia. After months of stalemate, the international Coalition Forces arrived in Mosul airport on June 1, captained by large US and Soviet contingents.
Mozambique would probably become a South African mandate, following the example of South-West Africa, following the First World War. It would probably be granted to SA as a reward for support after WWII. Immediately after the war, SA and Britain had good relations, as the Prime Minister of the time, Jan Smuts, was a committed Anglophile (unless his Premiership has been butterflied away).
The second point I have bolded does not make sense. How can South Africa becoming a republic go against British Africa policy? Unless the Balfour declaration has somehow also been butterflied away, SA would have been recognised as self-governing from at least the 1920s. Britain had no say in how South Africa ran itself after 1926, after the acceptance of the dominions as autonomous states.
Hapsburg
Banned
Possibly. But, it bugged me that such the coastline was not part of the Federation of Rhodesia-Nyasaland/Central African Federation, so I had something else go on (hell, that's the whole reason I added Portugal being a part of the Axis: so that British Mozambique becomes a part of the CAF).
TTL's British Africa policy is to maintain the dominion status of the British African dominions until majority rule is permanently established.
So, yes, TTL's South Africa stubbornly maintaining white minority rule and then going "Fuck it" and declaring independence as a republic does go against British policy. Think of it like TTL's niche-filler of OTL Ian Smith's Rhodesia.
You going to have to do a whole lot of attitude changing in the first half of the century then. As stated, South Africa was a de facto independent state from 1910 when it became a union, and de jure from 1926 with the Balfour declaration. South Africa could do what they like without British approval. They were not on the same-level as Southern Rhodesia. Your time line will make sense, just remember theat Britain has no control over what South Africa does.
Hapsburg
Banned
Not that much. IOTL, the British adopted the NIBMAR policy. This TL posits partly that Britain implements this policy to all of their African colonies and dominions, a bit earlier than OTL. Not that much of a stretch.
Of course. South Africa gets away with what they're doing precisely because they have a different sense of independence compared to other dominions of the commonwealth.
Re: your first point. I'm not sure. The Second World War changed many attitudes I think, and led many people to see that any notion of European superiority was ridiculous after WWII, leading to NIBMAR.
South Africa's sense of independence wasn't that different from the other "white" dominions I don't think, so I'm not sure what you are getting at here.
Hapsburg
Banned
Which is what I meant. The effects of WW2 make people snap out of their idiocy and the political leadership agrees to NIBMAR decolonisation.
O__o
You just said:
"As stated, South Africa was a de facto independent state from 1910 when it became a union, and de jure from 1926 with the Balfour declaration. South Africa could do what they like without British approval. They were not on the same-level as Southern Rhodesia."
Which means that SA had a different and much greater sense of autonomy and independence than, say, Southern Rhodesia or Nyasaland or the Gold Coast.
I see. I thought you were comparing SA with the other "white" dominions, Canada, Aus, etc.
I didn't say they were incompetent, I got the point that the Boyars were running the show. Poland was also ruled by it's nobility, and I don't recall the bi-weekly civil wars.
Bruce
Im really embarassed now... but...
Greater Tuscany is seperate as an Austrian puppet. Think the little duchies plus Bologna. The MS Paint reference map would help.
Thanks
GraciasDroolage!!!
Thanks again Thande
By now I realize that I didn't do so well for East Asia then the rest of the map. And Russia as well. Thanks Bruce.
And since everyone else is posting to this thread, here's my map contest contribution.
In hopes of encouraging more clockpunk, (rather than winning anything: I gotta move beyond basic paint) a clockpunk 1700.
Thanks to Rudolph II's encouragement of alchemical studies, the eastern Habsburg empire managed to gain a commanding lead in the development of modern material philosophy. With alchemical artillery and clockwork automata, the Habsburgs have crushed the German Protestants, bitch-slapped the Swedes, and pushed back the Ottomans. Recently, the arms of the Dual Emperors have achieved their greatest coup yet: with the aid of Austria's new magnetically suspended [1] Sky-Ships, the French have suffered a crushing defeat, and the aged king, who for decades has struggled to prevent Habsburg mastery of Europe, has reportedly been taken prisoners. French philosphers are fleeing abroad less they fall into the hands of the Austrian Inquisitors.
But pride goeth before a fall, and forces are marshalling to oppose the Habsburgs. Secret emissaries, travelling by phlogiston-powered submersible to avoid discovery by Habsburg ships of the sea or skies, now work to bind together an alliance to reverse the Habsburg conquests. In Poland, King Jan's Golem Corps, a gift from the Kabbalist philosophers he protects, are more than a match for any clockworks: in the Ottoman capital, the Sultan has natural philosophers of his own, and it is rumored that they have created a mechanical brain able to predict the outcome of battles: and in the British republic, Isaac Newton and the National Institute of the Sciences have developed alchemical weapons such as nothing the world has seen before, including the process by which the Great Ditch was created, seperating the rump of the independent Netherlands from the conquered continent, at the cost of tens of thousands of lives. France, too, is defeated but hardly pacified...
Nobody really thinks of backward Muscovy, and its seizure of Livonia is generally attributed to the fact that Sweden was busy getting whomped on by the Austrians at the time. But its rather large Czar is a man of ambition, and he has not only been building a modern army, for he pays well for foreign talent, especially of skilled material philosophers, alechemists and otherwise...
Bruce
[1] Well, Gulliver's Travels and the flying island of Laputa are clockpunk-era...
In hopes of encouraging more clockpunk, (rather than winning anything: I gotta move beyond basic paint) a clockpunk 1700.
Thanks to Rudolph II's encouragement of alchemical studies, the eastern Habsburg empire managed to gain a commanding lead in the development of modern material philosophy. With alchemical artillery and clockwork automata, the Habsburgs have crushed the German Protestants, bitch-slapped the Swedes, and pushed back the Ottomans. Recently, the arms of the Dual Emperors have achieved their greatest coup yet: with the aid of Austria's new magnetically suspended [1] Sky-Ships, the French have suffered a crushing defeat, and the aged king, who for decades has struggled to prevent Habsburg mastery of Europe, has reportedly been taken prisoners. French philosphers are fleeing abroad less they fall into the hands of the Austrian Inquisitors.
But pride goeth before a fall, and forces are marshalling to oppose the Habsburgs. Secret emissaries, travelling by phlogiston-powered submersible to avoid discovery by Habsburg ships of the sea or skies, now work to bind together an alliance to reverse the Habsburg conquests. In Poland, King Jan's Golem Corps, a gift from the Kabbalist philosophers he protects, are more than a match for any clockworks: in the Ottoman capital, the Sultan has natural philosophers of his own, and it is rumored that they have created a mechanical brain able to predict the outcome of battles: and in the British republic, Isaac Newton and the National Institute of the Sciences have developed alchemical weapons such as nothing the world has seen before, including the process by which the Great Ditch was created, seperating the rump of the independent Netherlands from the conquered continent, at the cost of tens of thousands of lives. France, too, is defeated but hardly pacified...
Nobody really thinks of backward Muscovy, and its seizure of Livonia is generally attributed to the fact that Sweden was busy getting whomped on by the Austrians at the time. But its rather large Czar is a man of ambition, and he has not only been building a modern army, for he pays well for foreign talent, especially of skilled material philosophers, alechemists and otherwise...
Bruce
[1] Well, Gulliver's Travels and the flying island of Laputa are clockpunk-era...
JJohnson
Banned
I'd like to request an altered map of France for a timeline, with the following changes:
Corsica, Savoy, and Nice belong to Italy
Alsace, Lorraine, Belfort, Eupen, Malmedy belong to Germany
St. Quentin, Vervins, Charleville-Mézières, Sedan, Somme dept. (Abbeville, Amiens, Montdidier, Peronne), Nord dept. (except Dunkirk, which belongs to Netherlands), Pas-de-Calais dept. (second map) belong to Belgium
Dunkirk and Flanders belong to the Netherlands
Essentially, Belgium moves southwest, Germany gets Alsace and Lorraine, and Italy gets Nice/Savoy
Many thanks in advance!
James
Corsica, Savoy, and Nice belong to Italy
Alsace, Lorraine, Belfort, Eupen, Malmedy belong to Germany
St. Quentin, Vervins, Charleville-Mézières, Sedan, Somme dept. (Abbeville, Amiens, Montdidier, Peronne), Nord dept. (except Dunkirk, which belongs to Netherlands), Pas-de-Calais dept. (second map) belong to Belgium
Dunkirk and Flanders belong to the Netherlands
Essentially, Belgium moves southwest, Germany gets Alsace and Lorraine, and Italy gets Nice/Savoy
Many thanks in advance!
James
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