a Valkyrie Rises Over Europe, a Alternate Story of the Cold War
- Thread starter Kaiser K
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Re: Vive La Free France?...
While a theoretical loose federation of all of Free France's remaining colonies is certainly a fine idea in theory, it would be a state that has a grave potential to be inherently unstable; especially if nationalist sentiments in the colonies still continue to be stroked in the coming years due to recent events elsewhere and the general trend towards nationalism (which they most certainly will).
As for the Free French and German Navies, while my knowledge of naval matters is limited at best, I imagine that Free France's Navy isn't too strong - especially considering that much of it has probably been captured by the new OAS led government in Algiers, as for the Kriegsmarine, I am unsure about the numbers; but the Battleship Tirpitz has probably been decommissioned by 1960.
Re: Strange Times Make for Strange Bedfellows
Hmm, I hadn't thought of that possibility before - but you bring up an interesting point, the UAR's overtly expansionist tendency and openly stated desire to rule over the entire Arab world (a world which in Nasser's view, includes the entirety of Saudi Arabia obviously; as well as the Iranian province of Khuzestan) does have the distinct possibility of scaring Riyadh and Tehran enough to force them to put aside their wide and in other cases too broad differences and work together to deal with the threat of the UAR; even if it's the most minimal amount of cooperation possible.
You have just given me some things to consider... many things.
As for Rhodesia, the color just signifies that they have self-government, but aren't at the level of Dominion yet, Rhodesia has a similar status at this point in OTL - but if South Africa starts sliding into the Axis camp; we could see Sir Ian Smith make a appearance or two sometime down the line.
Re: Italy's Military Troubles
Nah, they invaded Croatia and got Balbo as a leader.
Re: The Congolese Mess
What Ryan said, Belgium's fighting a guerilla war against Katangan and Congolese nationalists (the latter of whom are right-wing and funded by the Reich and Italy); and it's losing pretty badly actually.
While a theoretical loose federation of all of Free France's remaining colonies is certainly a fine idea in theory, it would be a state that has a grave potential to be inherently unstable; especially if nationalist sentiments in the colonies still continue to be stroked in the coming years due to recent events elsewhere and the general trend towards nationalism (which they most certainly will).
As for the Free French and German Navies, while my knowledge of naval matters is limited at best, I imagine that Free France's Navy isn't too strong - especially considering that much of it has probably been captured by the new OAS led government in Algiers, as for the Kriegsmarine, I am unsure about the numbers; but the Battleship Tirpitz has probably been decommissioned by 1960.
Re: Strange Times Make for Strange Bedfellows
Hmm, I hadn't thought of that possibility before - but you bring up an interesting point, the UAR's overtly expansionist tendency and openly stated desire to rule over the entire Arab world (a world which in Nasser's view, includes the entirety of Saudi Arabia obviously; as well as the Iranian province of Khuzestan) does have the distinct possibility of scaring Riyadh and Tehran enough to force them to put aside their wide and in other cases too broad differences and work together to deal with the threat of the UAR; even if it's the most minimal amount of cooperation possible.
You have just given me some things to consider... many things.
As for Rhodesia, the color just signifies that they have self-government, but aren't at the level of Dominion yet, Rhodesia has a similar status at this point in OTL - but if South Africa starts sliding into the Axis camp; we could see Sir Ian Smith make a appearance or two sometime down the line.
Re: Italy's Military Troubles
Oh my, France can't catch a break. And Italy is number two in military strength? Did they fix the problem of their vehicles having too many reverse gears?
Nah, they invaded Croatia and got Balbo as a leader.
Re: The Congolese Mess
What Ryan said, Belgium's fighting a guerilla war against Katangan and Congolese nationalists (the latter of whom are right-wing and funded by the Reich and Italy); and it's losing pretty badly actually.
I'd say that a Mobutu lead Fascist Congo that is allied to Nazi Germany is bad for all.
Yes. Everyone to the French, the British, and Portuguese will have a big cow over it, and try to put a end to it. Which again will be very bad.
Driver
Banned
Why is Mongolia shaded Blue? Are they a US ally/puppet?
What's going on in Indo-China?
And why is the UAR shaded different colors? Can you please explain them? I'm assuming the lighter shades are states, while darker shades are desert territories with little population. And what's going on with South Sudan and the Kurds, self rule? They also have a different color?
Also, I'm sure the population of Saudi Arabia and Arab states are itching to join a Super Arab State. That could be unrest for the UAR to exploit.
And can you please say which countries are in which bloc?
What's going on in Indo-China?
And why is the UAR shaded different colors? Can you please explain them? I'm assuming the lighter shades are states, while darker shades are desert territories with little population. And what's going on with South Sudan and the Kurds, self rule? They also have a different color?
Also, I'm sure the population of Saudi Arabia and Arab states are itching to join a Super Arab State. That could be unrest for the UAR to exploit.
And can you please say which countries are in which bloc?
Re: Strange Times Make for Strange Bedfellows
Hmm, I hadn't thought of that possibility before - but you bring up an interesting point, the UAR's overtly expansionist tendency and openly stated desire to rule over the entire Arab world (a world which in Nasser's view, includes the entirety of Saudi Arabia obviously; as well as the Iranian province of Khuzestan) does have the distinct possibility of scaring Riyadh and Tehran enough to force them to put aside their wide and in other cases too broad differences and work together to deal with the threat of the UAR; even if it's the most minimal amount of cooperation possible.
You have just given me some things to consider... many things.
Play with this thought: while the UAR is Arab nationalist, it doesn't seem to be Islamist. On the other hand, I could imagine the Saudis sponsoring Wahhabism and other extremist sects throughout the Muslim world just like IOTL. This would force many in the Middle East to ask themselves whether being Arab or being Muslim is most important, and bring Arab Nationalists and Islamic Fundamentalists to fight one another.
On a different note, How's Ayn Rand ITTL? With socialism being more popular in the US, will she declare both the United States and the German Reich unfit for her philosophy? Will she be more inclined to lead her wealthy followers away from the "parasites" and try to build an Objectivist utopia? (hopefully in the form of an Art-Deco underwater city with highly advanced genetic engineering. I know that's ASB, but Bioshock is just too awesome of a game for me to not mention)
Yeah, as long as Mobutu does not host Angolan rebel groups (which he has no reason to, seeing as they are still left-wing; as per OTL), Lisbon will have absolutely no reason to be hostile to his regime; especially since Portugal is even more overtly Fascist ITTL then IOTL due to the fact that they are heavily influenced by the Axis.
Mongolia is US puppet, but still has strong Soviet influence; hence the Soviet red outline underneath the regular Mongolian color and US blue being the fill.
I've explained that in multiple updates so far, it's the Vietnam War.
The UAR is shaded multiple shades of Egypt's normal sandy gold color because the internal structure of the UAR's constitute republics, provinces, districts and territories is extensively complicated; so the multiple colors are there to differentiate between the different levels of this structure.
While the structure is complicated - as I stated above, short version is that the lightest shade represents directly incorporated provinces/regions that possess normal civilian led government (with the old pre-unification borders serving as the territorial divider between the UAR's constitute republics), the darker shade - as you side, represents the mainly desert territories that possess little population, and are led by a federal government directed civilian government who manages affairs in these regions, the darkest of the three shades represents territories that are under the direct military rule of the United Arab People's Liberation Amy due the ongoing "state of emergency" present in these territories (caused by the open rebellions by Kurdish and South Sudanese militant groups); the citizens of these territories are not afforded the same civil or constitutional rights as the rest of the UAR (essentially meaning anything and everything is fair game).
Oh they most certainly are, the remaining independent Arab states are a boiling pot just ready to boil over into a frenzy of Pan-Arab militancy and rebellion; the only question about the matter is when this pot will exactly boil over.
Because if they get a leader strong-willed enough to extract large amounts of wealth instead of a string of tin-pot dictators they could be a very valuable asset to the Axis?
And a jump off point to mess with even more of Africa.
Re: Pan-Arabism vs Islamic Extremism: Round 1?
The UAR - and in turn the Pan-Arab political movement, are still as secular in nature ITTL as they were in IOTL, so there is most definitely the possibility for Islamic extremism to still rise in direct backlash to the secular Pan-Arabist movement - as well as for two ideologies to eventually clash as the UAR's expansion continues (especially if the Saudis still sponsor Wahhabist and other extremist groups here as they did in OTL; which I find very likely to be case), which could end up spelling long term troubles for the region; even if Saudi Arabia is eventually annexed by the UAR.
Re: The Rise of Rapture
While I doubt Ms. Rand is going full Bioshock anywhere in the world, she's probably still around and writing new works and maybe doing political speeches, I imagine the left-wing shift of the US in recent years would turn her off; so she may have ended up immigrating somewhere else and continuing her work from there.
Re: Troubling Problems
Exactly, a politically stable and openly fascist Congo would be a very valuable asset to the Axis if it were to come about; hence why the West continues to support the obviously fleeting and collapsing Belgians in the hope of starving off the Congolese Fascists and preventing them from gaining power.
Re: Rhodes Would Be Proud of His Rhodesia
Unless they chose to emigrate to the US or the UK - I would concur with your thought that those Polish and Italian refugees in North and South Rhodesia probably would choose to stay, which could definitely cause a whole host of most interesting butterflies for the region; and potentially cause an entirely different independent Rhodesia to come about if the white minority seizes power per OTL.
The UAR - and in turn the Pan-Arab political movement, are still as secular in nature ITTL as they were in IOTL, so there is most definitely the possibility for Islamic extremism to still rise in direct backlash to the secular Pan-Arabist movement - as well as for two ideologies to eventually clash as the UAR's expansion continues (especially if the Saudis still sponsor Wahhabist and other extremist groups here as they did in OTL; which I find very likely to be case), which could end up spelling long term troubles for the region; even if Saudi Arabia is eventually annexed by the UAR.
Re: The Rise of Rapture
While I doubt Ms. Rand is going full Bioshock anywhere in the world, she's probably still around and writing new works and maybe doing political speeches, I imagine the left-wing shift of the US in recent years would turn her off; so she may have ended up immigrating somewhere else and continuing her work from there.
Re: Troubling Problems
Exactly, a politically stable and openly fascist Congo would be a very valuable asset to the Axis if it were to come about; hence why the West continues to support the obviously fleeting and collapsing Belgians in the hope of starving off the Congolese Fascists and preventing them from gaining power.
Re: Rhodes Would Be Proud of His Rhodesia
Unless they chose to emigrate to the US or the UK - I would concur with your thought that those Polish and Italian refugees in North and South Rhodesia probably would choose to stay, which could definitely cause a whole host of most interesting butterflies for the region; and potentially cause an entirely different independent Rhodesia to come about if the white minority seizes power per OTL.
Who'd want to go full Bioshock anyway? Much more fun to mix and match. Say take a dash of Bioshock, throw in some Fallout, add in the geo-political situation of TTL, and maybe just a smidge of Resident Evil and things get a whole lot more fun.
More seriously, I see their color has changed along with Algeria, so what is the situation like in Morocco, and do they have any realistic plans to avoid joining the UAR?
The situation in Morocco is quite tense you could say (for lack of a better word), you have the Free French puppet government slowly losing it's grip on power with each passing day, then there are the nationalists who want to remove the French and reestablish the supreme governing authority of the Sultan over the country, and then there are the Pan-Arabists who want the UAR to annex the country; so in shorter terms it's a huge mess.
As for whether Morocco has any realistic plans to avoid annexation by the UAR, considering the current situation - I would say that even if they do; they probably aren't going to work in the end unless something else drastic happens.
Spain's more likely to invade and subjugate Morocco under it's own rule honestly.
And something always drastic happens in this world. Maybe Vichy?
Vichy has no interest in Morocco, it's main and only concern is Algeria.
Now that i think about it...
What of the Milice? The Carlingue? The Special Brigades?
What of the Milice? The Carlingue? The Special Brigades?
Here's another more character focused update, the regularly scheduled next update will arrive by March 31st at the latest.
Enjoy guys.
The scene pans into the so called "Oval Office" of the White House - the official work office within the official residence of the most powerful man in the world, the President of the United States Harold Stassen.
However, at this point, Stassen is not working on anything - despite the fact that German Foreign Minister Friedrich Weber was set to arrive in a few hours to discuss a possible resolution to the recent Algerian Crisis, instead, the President is chugging away on a bottle of whiskey - his fourth entire one of the day, leaving Stassen most visibly drunk, a fact he cares little about; seeing as his drunken state helps numb the pain of his failures to protect America and protect those innocent children in Albany, Georgia.
Clearly delirious and out of state, Stassen is seemingly unaware when the door to his office is opened by his Vice President, Henry Cabot Lodge; who had come to the Office to speak with the President about the Algerian Crisis
"Mr. President, we need to tal..." Lodge says, cutting himself off when he noticed both the multiple empty whiskey bottles lying on the President's desk; and the clearly drunken state that the President was currently in.
"Esther?... uhh.. oh Henry it's you, sorry; I had dozed off there for a bit I think" responded Stassen, partially unaware of his current surroundings; in addition to trying to deflect the true matter at hand.
"No Mr. President, you were drinking; again"
"This old thing? ahh the whiskey's nothing Henry; I'm fine"
"No your not sir, your drunk out of your mind; and the German Foreign Minister is set to arrive in just a hour to discuss a possible agreement that may avert a Third World War
"Foreign Minister? oh Weber yes Weber... I almost forgot"
"No, your doing this again, you have to stop Harold; your killing yourself with this drinking habit of yours"
"I can control it Henry, calm down, it's no big deal really, it helps me sleep; what's the harm in that?"
"The harm is that you are killing yourself by drinking so much booze Mr. President, you need to stop this; I don't want to see you destroy yourself like this"
"Don't you fucking tell me what I can and can't do!" Stassen said as he threw the whiskey bottle in his hand past Lodge and towards the wall, shattering it instantly as he showed just how infuriated he was by Lodge's assertion that he needed to stop.
"I'll delay Weber as long as possible Mr. President, but you need to clean up your act now; before America has to bury another President" Lodge said, as he turned towards the door and exited the office; leaving the angered and drunk President to wallow in his own thoughts.
"Why bother? once my term is up you fucking people won't need me anymore"
Enjoy guys.
Washington, DC, United States of America - White House
2:35 PM
June 9th, 1960
2:35 PM
June 9th, 1960
The scene pans into the so called "Oval Office" of the White House - the official work office within the official residence of the most powerful man in the world, the President of the United States Harold Stassen.
However, at this point, Stassen is not working on anything - despite the fact that German Foreign Minister Friedrich Weber was set to arrive in a few hours to discuss a possible resolution to the recent Algerian Crisis, instead, the President is chugging away on a bottle of whiskey - his fourth entire one of the day, leaving Stassen most visibly drunk, a fact he cares little about; seeing as his drunken state helps numb the pain of his failures to protect America and protect those innocent children in Albany, Georgia.
Clearly delirious and out of state, Stassen is seemingly unaware when the door to his office is opened by his Vice President, Henry Cabot Lodge; who had come to the Office to speak with the President about the Algerian Crisis
"Mr. President, we need to tal..." Lodge says, cutting himself off when he noticed both the multiple empty whiskey bottles lying on the President's desk; and the clearly drunken state that the President was currently in.
"Esther?... uhh.. oh Henry it's you, sorry; I had dozed off there for a bit I think" responded Stassen, partially unaware of his current surroundings; in addition to trying to deflect the true matter at hand.
"No Mr. President, you were drinking; again"
"This old thing? ahh the whiskey's nothing Henry; I'm fine"
"No your not sir, your drunk out of your mind; and the German Foreign Minister is set to arrive in just a hour to discuss a possible agreement that may avert a Third World War
"Foreign Minister? oh Weber yes Weber... I almost forgot"
"No, your doing this again, you have to stop Harold; your killing yourself with this drinking habit of yours"
"I can control it Henry, calm down, it's no big deal really, it helps me sleep; what's the harm in that?"
"The harm is that you are killing yourself by drinking so much booze Mr. President, you need to stop this; I don't want to see you destroy yourself like this"
"Don't you fucking tell me what I can and can't do!" Stassen said as he threw the whiskey bottle in his hand past Lodge and towards the wall, shattering it instantly as he showed just how infuriated he was by Lodge's assertion that he needed to stop.
"I'll delay Weber as long as possible Mr. President, but you need to clean up your act now; before America has to bury another President" Lodge said, as he turned towards the door and exited the office; leaving the angered and drunk President to wallow in his own thoughts.
"Why bother? once my term is up you fucking people won't need me anymore"
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